Sunday, October 30, 2011

Before the Mourning, A Desire for Joy?

Melancholy = Mourning in advance

27 comments:

Elmers Brother said...

joy is not dependent on circumstances?

And if you find joy...?

This is really interesting

-FJ said...

Yin and yang, is the connection I suppose I'm trying to draw.

-FJ said...

Just trying to connect the "mechanisms" that move one between emotional states.

Elmers Brother said...

ah...ying and yang...anything like the Cyclical Argument in Phaedo?

Elmers Brother said...

"How singular is the thing called pleasure, and how curiously related to pain, which might be thought to be the opposite of it; for they never come to a man together, and yet he who pursues either of them is generally compelled to take the other. They are two, and yet they grow together out of one head or stem; and I cannot help thinking that if Aesop had noticed them, he would have made a fable about God trying to reconcile their strife, and when he could not, he fastened their heads together; and this is the reason why when one comes the other follows, as I find in my own case pleasure comes following after the pain in my leg, which was caused by the chain."

-FJ said...

...and in the Philebus, when Plato defines pleasure as the "absence" of pain, kind of a "neutral" state between over-much and nothing. Like your stomach hurts when empty (hungry) or over-full (satiated)... or a state between "thirst" and Satiety.

-FJ said...

This is where the concept of "manque" becomes more understandable.

Elmers Brother said...

or the philosopher chasing after death because the desires of the body get in the way of him finding truth?

Elmers Brother said...

in the Good Book...it might be the verse...

To live is Christ, to die is gain and the idea of putting away the old man

-FJ said...

I think it was Schopenhauer who claimed that the purpose of life was to prepare you for death... a nihilistic attitude that Nietzsche rejected.

Elmers Brother said...

so the cure is to balance the empty stomach with the over full?

Balance the ying and the yang?

That is if manque is under achieving or missing the mark (sin is what Christians call it)

Elmers Brother said...

he was a pessimist from what I've read but maybe he was just dredging up Socrates

O my judges, and show that he who has lived as a true philosopher has reason to be of good cheer when he is about to die, and that after death he may hope to receive the greatest good in the other world. And how this may be, Simmias and Cebes, I will endeavor to explain. For I deem that the true disciple of philosophy is likely to be misunderstood by other men; they do not perceive that he is ever pursuing death and dying; and if this is true, why, having had the desire of death all his life long, should he repine at the arrival of that which he has been always pursuing and desiring?

-FJ said...

so the cure is to balance the empty stomach with the over full?

No, it's to find the "middle state" and "sweet spot" between the two. Proper proprtions in a "mixed state" of existence.

"Nothing to excess".

-FJ said...

...although Nietzsche would disagree, and state that pain is our friend, and is actually a "good" thing. His was a more "Doric" perspective.

I say, "to each his seasons."

Elmers Brother said...

I see. The difference being that balance means there are times when you're over full and others when you're hungry.

Understand.

Moderation then?

Elmers Brother said...

Doric? the uber mensch?

Elmers Brother said...

so the middle state between mourning and joy might be contentment

The Apostle Paul said, "I have learned that whatever state I am to be content."

Psalm 17:15
King James Version (KJV)


15As for me, I will behold thy face in righteousness: I shall be satisfied, when I awake, with thy likeness.

-FJ said...

contentment....

Elmers Brother said...

it's not having what you want ...it's wanting what you've got...

Elmers Brother said...

I know it's foolish to think I can keep up with you here but it does cause me to think

-FJ said...

Just don't drive yourself to discontentment. Thinking is primarily useful as a prelude to change, in refinement towards an object of perfection. Most of the time, it's best to be working on instinct. I think mealncholia originates in over-thinking. Yes, you CAN "think too much." ;)

-FJ said...

...I know I do.

elmers brother said...

muscle memory

-FJ said...

Now THAT is something practical.

elmers brother said...

the video suggests a certain amount of practice that becomes instinct (muscle memory)

Elmers Brother said...

train your reflexes and repeat again

Elmers Brother said...

one shot one kill