“They saw their injured country's woe;
The flaming town, the wasted field;
Then rushed to meet the insulting foe;
They took the spear, - but left the shield.”
―Philip Freneau
.
And by a prudent flight and cunning save A life which valour could not, from the grave. A better buckler I can soon regain, But who can get another life again?
Archilochus
Saturday, February 4, 2023
Artificial Intelligence vs. Artificial Communication
Elena Esposito and Hans-Georg Moeller discuss intelligence, algorithms, and communication.
The Immanent vs. Transcendent Qualities of intelligence?
\\The USA and Europe crushed his hopes of joining the 'globalist" club (held from 1990's-2014) He's all "Russian" now. That's just a "maskirovka". False facade he played for gullible westerners. As any crook -- he just say to his pray that what that pray like to hear. You have no experience talking with crooks too, it seems. And where is that snake oil merchants... when they are so needed. Well, go read some O'Henry as some light remedy. ;-)
I have plenty of experience dealing with crooks. I grew up in Venezuela and spent a year sailing the world. My Uncle Louie was a "carny". I was told as a boy that I'm related to PT Barnum. :)
\\\\Well, you can try to disprove it. \\Again, I disagree. The era of "liberal globalism" is over. We're all "nationalists" again. You can have it as your political stance. I will not discuss it with you. Try to brawl with Derpy about it.
Then you'll never understand why Ukraine will lose.
\\As the balloon attack has shown, we can and will defend our airspace. Against 1 million of em? 1 billion of em?
Easily. We'll just start up a new Zuni rocket line.
\\ If necessary, we can also defend the vacuum above it. And you said that SDI was wrong. ;-P
Wrong? No. Expensive? Yes.
\\ And we can launch a denial of service attack against TikTOK whenever we like. Most of the internet's infrastructure is already ours. /A-a-a-nd? How it'll influence my WiFi hotspot? Or base station of 5G made by Huavei???
You don't think Huawei has a back door?
You really are ready to be leapfrogged in a technological sense. All is needed -- some killer app devised by some smarty young chinese boy. Well... that already happend.
Good for them! I grew up in the pre-computer office. I know how to run a business (shipyard) without any computers. :)
\\America's walls are of aluminum and in "Space". We own the "high ground" (space) and the "below ground" (under water). In the "Game of Throwns" we have most (not all) of the dragons. /"Generals always preparing for past battles"(tm)
Star Wars was real???? Who knew?
\\Then what will become of their "Chinese values"? They'll be no better than "us". :P /Well... you can try to talk about it with Chinese bomb. Or "smart" drone it would be delivered with. But... ups, they'll talk in Mandarin. ;-P
\\I didn't say Lenin, I said Stalin. Stalin was a nationalist.
Of what Nation? Of what Nationality? :-)))
Another word. Napoleon was French Nationalist, yes? :-))))
And Alexander The Great was... Persian Nationalist? Or Egyptian? Or... no, don't say, don't spoler it, I'll try to solve that riddle myself... he was, Indian Nationalist... wannabe. :-)))))))))
\\Then why not depose Tito in '48?
Titoism - Wikipedia en.wikipedia.org › wiki › Titoism Titoism is a socialist political philosophy most closely associated with Josip Broz Tito during the Cold War. ... It is characterized by a broad Yugoslav identity ...
Or for short -- because he exactly was natiopnalist. And "our bloody bastard"... for Stalin.
\\Communism is most certainly an ideology. One with it's own crazy way of speaking, and etiquette (like leader applauding himself, as if always just "one of the people").
Naah. That's it. That's why you do not get it. Do not know the facts.
There is NO such ideology as Communism. That is just brand-name. Under which many-many different -isms get flourishing.
Under Lenin... it was Lenin-ism. Under Stalin -- Stalin-ism. And so forth.
That is that historical manifestations of despotic-to-totalitarian regimes -- we call "communism" in broad sense. But there is NO. NADA. ZILCH. ZERO. Of anything that could be called Communism The REAL DEAL Thing. ;-) Hard to understand, I know. But, just try to relate to any religion out there. ;-)
There is many religions which snarky scientists calling "monotheistic".
But there is NO religion called Monotheism, isn't it? ;-) But why??? I as snarky atheist would ask? Why??? If they ALL about one and the same thing -- ONE god. ;-P
\\The USSR as originally formed under Lenin.
And what was Nationality of people in a Nation called USSR???? ;-)
\\Communism is a totalitarian ideology.
GOTO "Communism is not ideology" ;-P
\\The what are The Three Represents?
That is... Blah-blah-blah. For a gullible westerners. And to shit into heads of youth, which would be forced to learn it in schools.
\\\\Putin has become a nationalist as well. :-)))))))))))))
\\You'll notice how he didn't initially "crush Ukraine" as he will now.
Putin's Propaganda idea. That they "was not serious"...
why you do not eradicate that flea of propaganda out of your mind, I dunno.
\\I didn't say Lenin, I said Stalin. Stalin was a nationalist. /Of what Nation? Of what Nationality? :-)))
Asked and answered. Lenin's "empire". The USSR. Yes, he could dream of "expanding" the USSR. But Stalin did not delude himself into believing his empire (unlike the more "ambitious" Lenin and Trotsky) would become global and unipolar. He accepted a "multipolar" outcome. Or in the case of his competition with the USA, a bi-polar world. That, and Stalin was more practical, and chose to fight his enemies "one at a time" instead of "all at once". That particular bit of historicism and Marxist delusion that workers around the world would join his cause and overthrow their "oppressors".
Another word. Napoleon was French Nationalist, yes? :-)))) And Alexander The Great was... Persian Nationalist? Or Egyptian? Or... no, don't say, don't spoler it, I'll try to solve that riddle myself... he was, Indian Nationalist... wannabe. :-)))))))))
Again, an empire, with France as it's center and colonies paying tribute... but not w/o competition from other "empires"... British and German and Russian and Austrian and Ottoman. Not "unipolar".
\\Then why not depose Tito in '48? /Titoism - Wikipedia en.wikipedia.org › wiki › Titoism Titoism is a socialist political philosophy most closely associated with Josip Broz Tito during the Cold War. ... It is characterized by a broad Yugoslav identity ... Or for short -- because he exactly was natiopnalist. And "our bloody bastard"... for Stalin.
Tito was in Stalin's orbit. Stalin could have had him killed/ replaced... just as he did Trotsky. But Tito was useful as a buffer.
\\Communism is most certainly an ideology. One with it's own crazy way of speaking, and etiquette (like leader applauding himself, as if always just "one of the people"). /Naah. That's it. That's why you do not get it. Do not know the facts. There is NO such ideology as Communism. That is just brand-name. Under which many-many different -isms get flourishing.
Like "capitalism"? No. Why? Ownership. Private Property. The "alienation" of property and ability to "escape" social duties/obligations/responsibilities with "money" or "barter" (exchanges of private property). There are only three types of social relations. And the bottom two "reciprocity" and "communality" were born from the concept of "private property". The third, "domination" is the horde leader. The male to him all women are his property. Freud's "primordial father" who is deposed by the "band of brothers" (Freud, "Totem and Taboo" and "Society and its' Discontents").
Under Lenin... it was Lenin-ism. Under Stalin -- Stalin-ism. And so forth.
Personal empires with utopian vs. practical limitations.
That is that historical manifestations of despotic-to-totalitarian regimes -- we call "communism" in broad sense. But there is NO. NADA. ZILCH. ZERO. Of anything that could be called Communism The REAL DEAL Thing. ;-) Hard to understand, I know. But, just try to relate to any religion out there. ;-)
Hordes don't exist? It's leaders have no harems? Every male does not wish to lead his own horde? Each one does not wish to kill all the other alpha males, appropriate their females, and become the only alpha? The global alpha?
There is many religions which snarky scientists calling "monotheistic". /But there is NO religion called Monotheism, isn't it? ;-) But why??? I as snarky atheist would ask? Why??? If they ALL about one and the same thing -- ONE god. ;-P
There was once. Aten. It was the first. Read Freud's "Moses and Monotheism". It was born of polytheism. Atheism could only come about with Christianity... the "death" of G_d (and all gods). And if there was a religion today called "monotheism" it would be Islam. It recognizes and incorporates the entire history of monotheism from the perspective of Hajar/Hagar, Isaac's real/ birth mother.
\\The USSR as originally formed under Lenin. /And what was Nationality of people in a Nation called USSR???? ;-) Russian. Then in '22 added Armenia, Azerbajan, Georgia, Ukraine, et al.
\\Communism is a totalitarian ideology. GOTO "Communism is not ideology" ;-P
Private Property isn't an ideology? Who knew?
\\The what are The Three Represents? /That is... Blah-blah-blah. For a gullible westerners. And to shit into heads of youth, which would be forced to learn it in schools.
It was a necessary change to Chinese Communism to expand "private property" in the form of "private businesses" AFTER the stupid collectivisation policies of the 30's-60's.
\\\\Putin has become a nationalist as well. :-))))))))))))) \\You'll notice how he didn't initially "crush Ukraine" as he will now. /Putin's Propaganda idea. That they "was not serious"... why you do not eradicate that flea of propaganda out of your mind, I dunno.
It was true at the time. Now it's all out war. Too bad for you.
\\Then you'll never understand why Ukraine will lose. /Yeah. I know history of Ukraine... while you not. But... *I* "will never understand..." :-))))))))))
No, you'll just suck Putin's d*ck for the next decade and dream of emigrating. :P
\\Wrong? No. Expensive? Yes. /Ough... now I get it, what's wrong with my idea... of making robots from dirt. It not expensive enough. :-))) Maybe I should advertise it as "most expensive way to make robots" instead? :-)))
Why do people buy caviar, it tastes like sh*t? Supply/Demand. But hey, they sell "water" now (before the 70's Americans would have thought THAT a crazy idea). Put it in a nice package and brand it as a "healthy" thing.
\\You don't think Huawei has a back door? /Your? ;-)
Maybe. It would make the Chinese think that their comms were "secure" if we pretended to oppose it.
\\Star Wars was real???? Who knew? And your shuttles was not real too?
Real EXPENSIVE.
\\But it'll all be written in binary. :) Not hierogliphs???
Computers can be programmed with hieroglyphs???? I thought everything was getting away from "analog". :(
Ok. Then give YOUR definition of "nationality" then.
\\But Stalin did not delude himself into believing his empire (unlike the more "ambitious" Lenin and Trotsky) would become global and unipolar. He accepted a "multipolar" outcome.
Yes. After he lost 50-something millions of his "troops" in try to achieve that global goal.
But well. No. WTF you are talking about???
What was Korean War for, then??? What was Vietnam War for then???
What Putin talking just NOW about???
\\America's problem today is that it likes the idea of a Unipolar world, where everyone must do as the US government says...
Because. There can be ONLY ONE law. Only one Justice. Or what... you'd like a world where'd you could sail on a cruise ship, it could be boarded by pirates, you'd be enslaved. And your government would say "we cannot do anything here... that is in accordance to their laws". SUCH a "multi-polar World" do you like? ;-P
\\Again, an empire, with France as it's center and colonies paying tribute... but not w/o competition from other "empires"... British and German and Russian and Austrian and Ottoman. Not "unipolar".
Nationalism == Imperialism???
\\Like "capitalism"? No. Why? Ownership. Private Property. The "alienation" of property and ability to "escape" social duties/obligations/responsibilities with "money" or "barter" (exchanges of private property). There are only three types of social relations. And the bottom two "reciprocity" and "communality" were born from the concept of "private property". The third, "domination" is the horde leader. The male to him all women are his property. Freud's "primordial father" who is deposed by the "band of brothers" (Freud, "Totem and Taboo" and "Society and its' Discontents").
What is capitalism? Isn't it phenomenoloigical. It just "as is". And people trying to get a grasp of what it is??? Still. They keep giving Nobel's prizes in Economy. Isn't it way-way different, from other -isms. Which are normative. Mere declarations. Unlivable. And unhealthy.
\\Hordes don't exist? It's leaders have no harems? Every male does not wish to lead his own horde? Each one does not wish to kill all the other alpha males, appropriate their females, and become the only alpha? The global alpha?
And how it relates to Communism???
\\Private Property isn't an ideology? Who knew?
Depend on how you'd define that i-word. ;-P
\\It was true at the time. Now it's all out war. Too bad for you.
??? Well, you really have no experience of street brawls, am I right? ;-)
\\No, you'll just suck Putin's d*ck for the next decade and dream of emigrating. :P
Too bad for that your attempt of trolling... Russian tryed to use it TOO MANY times already, on my watch. For me to react on it emotionally, like you'd like. ;-P Wanna be sucker in one pond of shit with Russian losers -- NMP. :-))))))))
\\Computers can be programmed with hieroglyphs????
\\Asked and answered. /Ok. Then give YOUR definition of "nationality" then.
USA not Maryland or Oklahoma.
\\But Stalin did not delude himself into believing his empire (unlike the more "ambitious" Lenin and Trotsky) would become global and unipolar. He accepted a "multipolar" outcome. Yes. After he lost 50-something millions of his "troops" in try to achieve that global goal. But well. No. WTF you are talking about??? What was Korean War for, then??? What was Vietnam War for then??? What Putin talking just NOW about???
When Lenin died, Stalin stopped being Lenin's arm. He became Stalin's arm. And Stalin "accepted" a bi-polar world (Trotsky did NOT). Vietnam and Korea were about "containment" (George Kennan's strategy in the Isaiah Berlin letter). The Soviet empire didn't directly "expand the USSR" after WWII. It created a "bloc" of satellite nations under the Warsaw Pact.... much like the USA controls most of Western Europe under NATO. Containment applied not only to communism in the USSR, but to communism in China and Cuba and Vietnam as well.
\\America's problem today is that it likes the idea of a Unipolar world, where everyone must do as the US government says... /Because. There can be ONLY ONE law. Only one Justice. Or what... you'd like a world where'd you could sail on a cruise ship, it could be boarded by pirates, you'd be enslaved. And your government would say "we cannot do anything here... that is in accordance to their laws". SUCH a "multi-polar World" do you like? ;-P
No, there can be many "goods" only not all of them can live "together". I like the idea of having choices as to which "goods" I want to pursue. Living in someone else's dream is called "nightmare". It's what Berlin termed "the unavoidability of conflicting ends" or, alternatively, the "incommensurability" of values. He once called this "the only truth which I have ever found out for myself... Some of the Great Goods cannot live together.... We are doomed to choose, and every choice may entail an irreparable loss." In short, it's what Michael Ignatieff summarized as "the tragic nature of choice".
Euripedes Hecuba - I may be a slave and weak as well, but the gods are strong, and custom too which prevails o'er them, for by custom it is that we believe in them and set up bounds of right and wrong for our lives. Now if this principle, when referred to thee, is to be set at naught, and they are to escape punishment who murder guests or dare to plunder the temples of gods, then is all fairness in things human at an end.
Pascal's "Pensees" - The result of this confusion is that one affirms the essence of justice to be the authority of the legislator; another, the interest of the sovereign; another, present custom, and this is the most sure. Nothing, according to reason alone, is just in itself; all changes with time. CUSTOM CREATES THE WHOLE OF EQUITY, FOR THE SIMPLE REASON THAT IT IS ACCEPTED. IT IS THE MYSTICAL FOUNDATION OF ITS AUTHORITY; WHOEVER CARRIES IT BACK TO FIRST PRINCIPLES DESTROYS IT. NOTHING IS SO FAULTY AS THOSE LAWS WHICH CORRECT FAULTS. He who obeys them because they are just, obeys a justice which is imaginary, and not the essence of law; it is quite self-contained, it is law and nothing more. He who will examine its motive will find it so feeble and so trifling that if he be not accustomed to contemplate the wonders of human imagination, he will marvel that one century has gained for it so much pomp and reverence. The art of opposition and of revolution is to unsettle established customs, sounding them even to their source, to point out their want of authority and justice. We must, it is said, get back to the natural and fundamental laws of the State, which an unjust custom has abolished. It is a game certain to result in the loss of all; nothing will be just on the balance. Yet people readily lend their ear to such arguments. They shake off the yoke as soon as they recognise it; and the great profit by their ruin, and by that of these curious investigators of accepted customs. But from a contrary mistake men sometimes think they can justly do everything which is not without an example. THAT IS WHY THE WISEST OF LEGISLATORS SAID THAT IT WAS NECESSARY TO DECEIVE MEN FOR THEIR OWN GOOD; and another, a good politician, "Cum veritatem qua liberetur ignoret, expedit quod fallatur."43 We must not see the fact of usurpation; law was once introduced without reason, and has become reasonable. We must make it regarded as authoritative, eternal, and conceal its origin, if we do not wish that it should soon come to an end.
43Saint Augustine, City of God, iv. 27. "As he has ignored the truth which frees, it is right he is mistaken."
But still, core of it are descendants of British empire. And your lang is English. And you percieve English culture as part of your own.
Well, USA not a nationality-based country.
\\When Lenin died, Stalin stopped being Lenin's arm. He became Stalin's arm.
That is such a primitivisation. And evidance that you do not know facts. Like that popular bullshit that Lenin was New Tzar. And so was Stalin. And Putin today. Like one of your peers americans once tryed to reassure me, that Che-Ka was descendants of Royal Jandarmerie of Tzars. To which I admitted -- that Minutmens must be called Royal Minutemens, then, yes? :-))))))
\\ And Stalin "accepted" a bi-polar world (Trotsky did NOT).
ANY arguments why it should be the case??? :-))) But there is NONE. He was preparing for a World War... with WHOM he planned to be "bi-polar"? With his alter-ego in his own mind? :-))))))))
\\Vietnam and Korea were about "containment" (George Kennan's strategy in the Isaiah Berlin letter).
From your side. Yes.
\\The Soviet empire didn't directly "expand the USSR" after WWII. It created a "bloc" of satellite nations under the Warsaw Pact....
Aha... and Soviet Republics was sovereign and independent states who decided to unite with "Mother Russia" of their own volition??? Without ANY force applyed???
You really just a John Know Nothing. :-))))) Well, not like I want to shame you for that. Your fantastic perspectives is just too interesting and entertaining for that.
\\much like the USA controls most of Western Europe under NATO.
Aha... so you spawned clones of Rep and Dem parties everywhere?
\\Again, an empire, with France as it's center and colonies paying tribute... but not w/o competition from other "empires"... British and German and Russian and Austrian and Ottoman. Not "unipolar". /Nationalism == Imperialism???
No. Nationalism, I only worry about one country, my country, no colonies, no imperialism. No "Blocs" No "satellites". Yes, you have allies or form a confederacy (if an enemy grows to powerful) and trading partners. But you don't control them or what goes on within them. Those alliances may shift depending upon circumstances, but you don't try and control those circumstances unless it would mean your "end" to ignore them (ie Hitler). Something like the Arcadian League or Achaean Confederacy.
\\Like "capitalism"? No. Why? Ownership. Private Property. The "alienation" of property and ability to "escape" social duties/obligations/responsibilities with "money" or "barter" (exchanges of private property). There are only three types of social relations. And the bottom two "reciprocity" and "communality" were born from the concept of "private property". The third, "domination" is the horde leader. The male to whom all women are his property. Freud's "primordial father" who is deposed by the "band of brothers" (Freud, "Totem and Taboo" and "Society and its' Discontents"). /What is capitalism? Isn't it phenomenoloigical. It just "as is". And people trying to get a grasp of what it is??? Still. They keep giving Nobel's prizes in Economy. Isn't it way-way different, from other -isms. Which are normative. Mere declarations. Unlivable. And unhealthy.
Capitalism is psychological. It uses the exchange of goods to maintain social relations through Commodity fetishism. It involves both "seen" and "unseen" qualities... especially when it moved from "barter" exchange" to "monetary (capital) exchanges".
\\Hordes don't exist? It's leaders have no harems? Every male does not wish to lead his own horde? Each one does not wish to kill all the other alpha males, appropriate their females, and become the only alpha? The global alpha? /And how it relates to Communism???
The horde is the original form of "communism". Domination by a single "horde leader" who lawlessly does whatever pleases him. It's not "communality" for communality can only emerge once the horde leader is over-thrown by the "band of brothers" and the rule of "law" replaces him and a "tribe" evolves from it. But this means establishing "private property" (ever see the movie, "The gods must be crazy?")
\\Private Property isn't an ideology? Who knew? /Depend on how you'd define that i-word. ;-P
Good point.
\\It was true at the time. Now it's all out war. Too bad for you. /??? Well, you really have no experience of street brawls, am I right? ;-)
True. I try and avoid street brawls.
\\Computers can be programmed with hieroglyphs???? /Well... and what is ASCII table, then? ;-P
\\USA not Maryland or Oklahoma. /But still, core of it are descendants of British empire. And your lang is English. And you percieve English culture as part of your own. Well, USA not a nationality-based country.
\\When Lenin died, Stalin stopped being Lenin's arm. He became Stalin's arm. /That is such a primitivisation. And evidance that you do not know facts. Like that popular bullshit that Lenin was New Tzar. And so was Stalin. And Putin today. Like one of your peers americans once tryed to reassure me, that Che-Ka was descendants of Royal Jandarmerie of Tzars. To which I admitted -- that Minutmens must be called Royal Minutemens, then, yes? :-))))))
...up until the moment they change sides.
\\ And Stalin "accepted" a bi-polar world (Trotsky did NOT). /ANY arguments why it should be the case??? :-))) But there is NONE. He was preparing for a World War... with WHOM he planned to be "bi-polar"? With his alter-ego in his own mind? :-))))))))
What is a "Trotskyite" then? What thought(s) distinguish him from a Stalinist?
\\The Soviet empire didn't directly "expand the USSR" after WWII. It created a "bloc" of satellite nations under the Warsaw Pact.... /Aha... and Soviet Republics was sovereign and independent states who decided to unite with "Mother Russia" of their own volition??? Without ANY force applyed??? You really just a John Know Nothing. :-))))) Well, not like I want to shame you for that. Your fantastic perspectives is just too interesting and entertaining for that.
We didn't pacify Germany with "force"? Japan? Occupy Italy and France? Who knew?
\\much like the USA controls most of Western Europe under NATO. Aha... so you spawned clones of Rep and Dem parties everywhere?
No. We just rewrote their Constitutions along similar lines.
\\No. Nationalism, I only worry about one country, my country, no colonies, no imperialism. No "Blocs" No "satellites".
Again. Napoleon -- was nationalist? Alexander -- was nationalist? Stalin -- nationalist? Putin? NO. They ALL was foreign to nations they (wanted to, in case of Putin) conquered. And they all wanted to create Empires!!!
\\Capitalism is psychological. It uses the exchange of goods to maintain social relations through Commodity fetishism. It involves both "seen" and "unseen" qualities... especially when it moved from "barter" exchange" to "monetary (capital) exchanges".
That is just one of thousands possible theories. ;-)
See, why I like techs. There all is definite and unambigious. ;-P
\\The horde is the original form of "communism".
Not, from that definition I know. Where is workers in horde? Where is burgeous??? :-)))
\\(ever see the movie, "The gods must be crazy?")
Yeah. But like second movie more. ;-) And there is Third movie too. ;-P
\\/Depend on how you'd define that i-word. ;-P
\\Good point.
It's not like I tryed to make one. :-) I just genuinely do not get it. How to make a clue out of it. Remember... I'm techy nerd, not social phylosopher. ;-)
\\/Well... and what is ASCII table, then? ;-P
\\Binary, one step removed.
How do you know that that binary... is in ASCII? ;-) How can you see it?
Hint. Character tables. ;-)
\\Tell THAT to the Cherokee, who still have their own semi-autonomous lands. We are the Iroquois Confederacy, writ large.
Then... get ready to Russians (Chineses) will come to you to "save their brothers" ;-P
\\What is a "Trotskyite" then? What thought(s) distinguish him from a Stalinist?
Ideological cliche, to put em in jail, and to shut em in a head.
\\We didn't pacify Germany with "force"? Japan? Occupy Italy and France? Who knew?
And you stayed there? started teaching them that that is wrong to call themself Germans, Japaneses, Italians??? That they trully are foster children of Great American Brotherhood of all Mankind. And need to learn to speak your Great American Language, and your Great American Culture? And better forget that once they called themself other then "brotherhooders" or "people of AmBRMaFFgg@$%"
\\No. Nationalism, I only worry about one country, my country, no colonies, no imperialism. No "Blocs" No "satellites". /Again. Napoleon -- was nationalist? Alexander -- was nationalist? Stalin -- nationalist? Putin? NO. They ALL was foreign to nations they (wanted to, in case of Putin) conquered. And they all wanted to create Empires!!!
Empire=Step1 on road to globalism from nationalism. War w/Spain after Civil War was beginning of the beginning of the American Empire... a step beyong the Monroe Doctrine. Guantanamo. The Phillipines.
\\Capitalism is psychological. It uses the exchange of goods to maintain social relations through Commodity fetishism. It involves both "seen" and "unseen" qualities... especially when it moved from "barter" exchange" to "monetary (capital) exchanges". /That is just one of thousands possible theories. ;-) See, why I like techs. There all is definite and unambigious. ;-P
lol! How do you define "techs"? I define it like Oswald Spengler. And money is a "technic" (technique).
\\The horde is the original form of "communism". Not, from that definition I know. Where is workers in horde? Where is burgeous??? :-)))
They aren't there... because there is no "private property". Everything is the horde leader's property. Private property has "been abolished".
\\(ever see the movie, "The gods must be crazy?") /Yeah. But like second movie more. ;-) And there is Third movie too. ;-P
Isn't one "private property/Cole bottle" enough?
\\/Depend on how you'd define that i-word. ;-P \\Good point. It's not like I tryed to make one. :-) I just genuinely do not get it. How to make a clue out of it. Remember... I'm techy nerd, not social phylosopher. ;-)
The corollary to an idea that relies upon the extension of that original idea into a narrative and pattern for future behaviour. An idea of "good" or "bad" (like Adam/Eve after the apple- knowledge of good & evil... no longer listen to G_d's Word, but have own opinions. Original sin, get "cast out of the Garden of Eden and eating from the tree of life).
\\/Well... and what is ASCII table, then? ;-P \\Binary, one step removed. How do you know that that binary... is in ASCII? ;-) How can you see it? Hint. Character tables. ;-)
Does the computer need it to run/process code?
\\Tell THAT to the Cherokee, who still have their own semi-autonomous lands. We are the Iroquois Confederacy, writ large. /Then... get ready to Russians (Chineses) will come to you to "save their brothers" ;-P
They speak Navajo? ;)
\\What is a "Trotskyite" then? What thought(s) distinguish him from a Stalinist? /Ideological cliche, to put em in jail, and to shut em in a head.
\\We didn't pacify Germany with "force"? Japan? Occupy Italy and France? Who knew? /And you stayed there? started teaching them that that is wrong to call themself Germans, Japaneses, Italians??? That they trully are foster children of Great American Brotherhood of all Mankind. And need to learn to speak your Great American Language, and your Great American Culture? And better forget that once they called themself other then "brotherhooders" or "people of AmBRMaFFgg@$%"
Yes, we stayed there. Japan too. My parents were part of US Occupation forces in Japan, before I was born.
Trotskyists are critical of Stalinism as they oppose Joseph Stalin's theory of socialism in one country in favour of Trotsky's theory of permanent revolution. Trotskyists criticize the bureaucracy and anti-democratic current developed in the Soviet Union under Stalin.
\\Trotskyists are critical of Stalinism as they oppose Joseph Stalin's theory of socialism in one country in favour of Trotsky's theory of permanent revolution. Trotskyists criticize the bureaucracy and anti-democratic current developed in the Soviet Union under Stalin.
That is going in that genre of "discussions" in-between prostitutes about who of em are more dirtier whore. ;-P
\\Yes, we stayed there. Japan too. My parents were part of US Occupation forces in Japan, before I was born.
And did all other things listed too??? So, how come? that I and all world can still see em as distinctly Japanese? And nobody calling em "dough, you all americans, meh"... as it is with Ukrainians?
\\Why so many Trotskyites today then?
Why youth going with Comandante Che Gevara prints on theor t-shorts??? :-))))
\\They speak Navajo? ;)
They are oppressed minors. ;-P Opressed with that that you FORCED them to talk in some artifical langauge, just to make them forget that they was Russian/Chinese/Arians. ;-P
\\Does the computer need it to run/process code?
Well. Still. All source code is in ASCII...
\\The corollary to an idea that relies upon the extension of that original idea into a narrative and pattern for future behaviour. An idea of "good" or "bad" (like Adam/Eve after the apple- knowledge of good & evil... no longer listen to G_d's Word, but have own opinions. Original sin, get "cast out of the Garden of Eden and eating from the tree of life).
I have enough cultural affinity to get that... But your point, still far from being clear to me. There is no cunning treaks what so ever. Just "as is". I'm as flabergasted as I am here. :-/
\\Isn't one "private property/Cole bottle" enough?
That... sounds like "who need that rainbow? with such a multitude of colors? while ONE color SHOULD be enough"... and that color is black, of course.
\\They aren't there... because there is no "private property". Everything is the horde leader's property. Private property has "been abolished".
Very artifical (re)construction.
\\lol! How do you define "techs"? I define it like Oswald Spengler. And money is a "technic" (technique).
Technology | Oxford Classical Dictionary oxfordre.com › classics › view › acrefore › acr... The term “technology” comes from the ancient Greek τέχνη, techne, meaning “art, skill, craft.” In modern practice, definitions of technology often vary ...
\\Empire=Step1 on road to globalism from nationalism. War w/Spain after Civil War was beginning of the beginning of the American Empire... a step beyong the Monroe Doctrine. Guantanamo. The Phillipines.
And still... you are far-far away from being real deal thing. ;-P
\\Yes, we stayed there. Japan too. My parents were part of US Occupation forces in Japan, before I was born. /And did all other things listed too??? So, how come? that I and all world can still see em as distinctly Japanese? And nobody calling em "dough, you all americans, meh"... as it is with Ukrainians?
Because we aren't the British and we no longer colonialize our subject states (like the Phillipines once). We get them to colonialize themselves.
\\Why so many Trotskyites today then? /Why youth going with Comandante Che Gevara prints on theor t-shorts??? :-))))
No, the "true believers". I used to come across lots of them.
\\Does the computer need it to run/process code? /Well. Still. All source code is in ASCII...
A code on top of a code.
\\The corollary to an idea that relies upon the extension of that original idea into a narrative and pattern for future behaviour. An idea of "good" or "bad" (like Adam/Eve after the apple- knowledge of good & evil... no longer listen to G_d's Word, but have own opinions. Original sin, get "cast out of the Garden of Eden and eating from the tree of life). /I have enough cultural affinity to get that... But your point, still far from being clear to me. There is no cunning treaks what so ever. Just "as is". I'm as flabergasted as I am here. :-/
These ideas then get taken for granted as if true and eternal... when they are mere customs/traditions. That "democracy is the best system" or "Every man deserves justice" (or not). Or "We must help Ukraine achieve their independence." It's an ideology born of customs and traditions.
\\Isn't one "private property/Coke bottle" enough? /That... sounds like "who need that rainbow? with such a multitude of colors? while ONE color SHOULD be enough"... and that color is black, of course.
One "private property" was the source of conflict in the tribe. So the "idea" comes to abolish that "private property"... w/o recognizing all the other "private properties (wives/husbands) already in the tribe.
\\They aren't there... because there is no "private property". Everything is the horde leader's property. Private property has "been abolished". /Very artifical (re)construction.
Yet found in nature all the time. The Hippo "beachmaster". The male lion pride. The Silverback gorilla. Man is not a herd animal. He's a horde animal (Freud).
\\lol! How do you define "techs"? I define it like Oswald Spengler. And money is a "technic" (technique). /Technology | Oxford Classical Dictionary oxfordre.com › classics › view › acrefore › acr... The term “technology” comes from the ancient Greek τέχνη, techne, meaning “art, skill, craft.” In modern practice, definitions of technology often vary ...
\\Empire=Step1 on road to globalism from nationalism. War w/Spain after Civil War was beginning of the beginning of the American Empire... a step beyond the Monroe Doctrine. Guantanamo. The Phillipines. /And still... you are far-far away from being real deal thing. ;-P
Because we're still conquering and colonizing our own country. We still have frontiers. We haven't enough people to do so elsewhere. It's why our armies tend to "leave and go home" (ala "Cincinnatus") after the battle (although we me leave some occupied fortifications and citadels to keep our conquered allies loyal). That may not always remain true.
HARDtalk - Olesya Khromeychuk, Ukrainian Historian and Writer www.bbc.co.uk › iplayer › episode › hardtalk-... HARDtalk - Olesya Khromeychuk, Ukrainian Historian and Writer · Duration 25 mins · First shown12:30am 22 Feb 2023 · Available for 11 months.
Ukraine is currently a space of deviation and crisis within the American heterotopia, nothing more, nothing less. Our "doctors" (USMC) will be arriving to "cure the insane" likely sooner than later. :(
\\Because we're still conquering and colonizing our own country. We still have frontiers.
Whatever you say... ;-P
Hint. To became one, you need to make your army out of mercenaries -- fighting for you for citizenship. ;-)
\\Yet found in nature all the time. The Hippo "beachmaster". The male lion pride. The Silverback gorilla. Man is not a herd animal. He's a horde animal (Freud).
And bonobos too. ;-P
\\These ideas then get taken for granted as if true and eternal... when they are mere customs/traditions. That "democracy is the best system" or "Every man deserves justice" (or not). Or "We must help Ukraine achieve their independence." It's an ideology born of customs and traditions.
So... what? (yawn)
That's pretty much... a truism.
\\A code on top of a code.
Yap. Code all way down. ;-P
\\No, the "true believers". I used to come across lots of them.
And how'd you distinguish... true from non-true??? (tongue in cheek) :-)
\\Because we aren't the British and we no longer colonialize our subject states (like the Phillipines once). We get them to colonialize themselves.
Whatever you say... :-)
I think new shortcut needed. Whatever you say -- WYS. Good idea?
It would mean, that though I see your point... I do not see a meat on it. And I not a dog to like ogling empty bones. ;-P
Again, a physical space that can impose its' own "discipline" upon my "sovereign" body. Why would I go in? I can stay out here in the "virtual" world, and be kept out of places I'd like to go by paywalls, or government or corporate firewalls. How much time do you spend outside the sovereignty of your own house? on-line? what if I were to take away your Twitter Tweeting privileges? What if I were to outlaw your "brand" and "make fun of it"? What if your Bit_coin couldn't be used to buy ammo for your AK-47?
You complain about "Russian Control" and their "disciplinary society. Our "control society" simply keeps you OUT of places you're not allowed to go in. Ours may seem "nicer" to you, but we've got "disciplinary spaces" worse than Russia in Ukraine.
You want to enforce your borders with Russia. America and Europe want to TEAR THEM DOWN and replace them with "virtual walls". You'll be kept out of places that you'll NEVER EVEN KNOW that you were kept out of.
\\Again, a physical space that can impose its' own "discipline" upon my "sovereign" body. Why would I go in?
But... you allowed it to enter your mind. That is most intrinsic, most intimate way of "entering". Way, after which it doesn't matter any more -- where is your body recides. ;-P
\\and be kept out of places I'd like to go by paywalls, or government or corporate firewalls.
Do you think there is something interesting??? Behing that *-walls???
I myself come to conclusion, that if one wants something interesting -- he must make it himself. ;-P
\\what if I were to take away your Twitter Tweeting privileges?
Why do you think I'm going as anon? ;-P
\\Ours may seem "nicer" to you, but we've got "disciplinary spaces" worse than Russia in Ukraine.
So what? Problem with RFia is not with it having "disciplinary spaces" but with applying em indiscriminately.
Would you like to be punished for something you never thought was a crime, and which you did many times without any detriments before, like post in your blog, like thought crime???
I bet... you cannot even imagine -- how's that possible. Same as before with being robbered on a street. With being punched in your face. THAT'S exactly because you accustomed for that "disciplinary spaces" protections you burgeoning on whole your life.
And now you saying "naah, Ukrainians, you don't need it. better turn to 'freedoms' of Mother Rusha, freedom to be punished for nothing, freedom to die for liliPut" and etc, and etc...
Some very valid points. Let me address what was, to me, the main one. Being subject to "arbitrary" non-judicial and judicial abuses.
Why do people obey the law?
. . . the advent of Law entails a kind of ‘disalienation’: in so far as the Other itself appears submitted to the ‘absolute condition’ of Law, the subject is no more at the mercy of the Other’s whim, its desire is no more totally alienated in the Other’s desire. . . In contrast to the ‘post-structuralist’ notion of a law checking, canalizing, alienating, oppressing ‘Oedipianizing’ some previous ‘flux of desire,’ Law is here conceived as an agency of ‘disalienation’ and ‘liberation’: it opens our access to desire by enabling us to disengage ourselves from the rule of the Other’s whim. - Slavoj Zizek, "For They Know Not What They Do"
In the last two decades, Americans have seen the breakdown of "impartiality" in the law. It now serves the needs of corporate elites and federal bureaucrats. It no longer "checks" or "restricts" them. They simply choose to NOT enforce it against their own. It's why Hunter Biden can get a $600k/month no-show job with Burisma (NMP you say) and Senators can sell weapons to Ukraine in return for kickbacks to the "charitable foundations" and campaign slush funds (Again you say NMP). We (America) has become much like Putin's oligarchy. And yes, you rightly object to being ruled by Russia, but think that with America "things will be different". I'm here to tell you, they won't.
It used to be different. Corruption was once kept "out of sight". But now, like Russia, it stands in the clear light of day. It is no longer the "shy flower" it once was. It has become, like in Russia, a brazen whore.
...and where once we could "democratically" throw the whores out of office... that is no longer true. They print as many ballots as their candidates need to win. And there is nothing we can do to stop them. America is NOT a "democracy".
. . . In contrast to the ‘post-structuralist’ notion of a law checking, canalizing, alienating, oppressing ‘Oedipianizing’ some previous ‘flux of desire,’ Law is here conceived as an agency of ‘disalienation’ and ‘liberation’: it opens our access to desire by enabling us to disengage ourselves from the rule of the Other’s whim.
...It's no longer "Oedipalizing". It is "Schizophrenializing."
\\Let me address what was, to me, the main one. Being subject to "arbitrary" non-judicial and judicial abuses.
WYS. 'Cause. You know, Lem. I will not try to find colorful words. As isn't any point in me trying to prozeliting among you.
As Lem showed (in "GolemXIV" for example) that there is much more important "abuses". That stem from our being result of evolution. Which made as the way it made us. Animals... as perfect slaves of their bodies. They do just that their body makes em to do. And willingly. And happy-go-luckyly. Even if it leads em to their premature demise.
But we, clever monkeys... happen to posess Brains. Which became creddle of Mind...
Oh, I said that I will not be colorful. :-))) Well, then I'll stop with "prozeliting" too...
Conclusion: Intrinsic inner contradiction between Body and Mind (not Brain) -- CANNOT be resolved. Either Body will prevail... and die. Or... Mind will became Free Mind.
MEANS?
I don't care about non-pragmatic, non-technological solutions to the questions like.
\\Why do people obey the law?
\\ We (America) has become much like Putin's oligarchy.
Became? :-))) RFia was built by YOUR example, remember? But... with crucial difference at play. ;-P
\\And yes, you rightly object to being ruled by Russia, but think that with America "things will be different". I'm here to tell you, they won't.
Those who drowning... have no time to decide to which rope to grap on.
But still... that is better, way better than to stay as that Buridan's Donkey. ;-P
\\...It's no longer "Oedipalizing". It is "Schizophrenializing."
Well... I can propose only technological solutions, remember? ;-)
...and with "technological solutions" hurry in the post-human/ cybernetic epoch.
...the distance between our inner life, the line of our thoughts, and external reality is the basis of the perception of ourselves as free. We are free in our thoughts precisely in so far as they are at a distance from reality, so that we can play with them, conduct thought experiments, and engage in dreaming, with no direct consequences to reality. No one can control us there.
Once our inner life is directly linked to reality, so that our thoughts have direct consequences in reality – or can be directly regulated by a machine that is part of reality, and are in this sense no longer ‘ours’ – we effectively enter a post-human state.
Neuralink should thus make us raise basic questions: not just “Will we still be human if immersed in a wired brain?” but also “What do we understand by ‘human’ when we raise such questions?” - Slavoj Zizek.
Either that, or accept our roles as "machines within the machines" of a Deleuzian Society of Control.
Still. I seems you need to be teached what pragmatism is.
When you come to your car. All that tirvias: about it need gas, charged accumulator, certain levels of oil and etc stuff -- that is, pragmatism.
Well, most of the people tend to forget, or even postpone need for such a knowledge. By redirecting it to "those who knows better". Or, by going completele happy-go-lucky... with known results.
Also...
well, enough for first lesson. ;-P
\\Either that, or accept our roles as "machines within the machines" of a Deleuzian Society of Control.
Phylosophers who trying to talk about techs -- idiots. Except Lem. ;-P
Still. I seems you need to be teached what pragmatism is. When you come to your car. All that tirvias: about it need gas, charged accumulator, certain levels of oil and etc stuff -- that is, pragmatism. Well, most of the people tend to forget, or even postpone need for such a knowledge. By redirecting it to "those who knows better". Or, by going completele happy-go-lucky... with known results. Also... well, enough for first lesson. ;-P
So you've consulted an Intellectual Property professional...
\\Either that, or accept our roles as "machines within the machines" of a Deleuzian Society of Control. Phylosophers who trying to talk about techs -- idiots. Except Lem. ;-P Or... better. WYS.
Nobody listens to philosophers except other philosophers. Nobody else would believe them.
\\So you've consulted an Intellectual Property professional...
Einstain should be one to take a patent on his Relativity Theory?
Or... maybe that should be Brather's Wright?
Oh... no, I het it -- Jobs should be hiring IP specialist... instead of mangling with that stupid Woz. Yes? ;-)
\\Nobody listens to philosophers except other philosophers. Nobody else would believe them.
Hmmm... still, we discussing em. I -- Lem, you -- Zizek. As well as other like Plato and Socrates, and Aristotle... Might be... something IS, in that idea... of liking wisdom. ;-)
I skimmed through half of that 200-something posts.
To summarise.
It seems a good one would be your: "Knowing the precise moment to grab hold of Kairos knot".
And for that I have a good story. ;-)
Amateur ethologist (animal behavior scientists) asks older one: "I see that orangutans -- they are so agile! They can fly through jungles like that Tarzan. But how they know which liana to grab???"
Old one answered, laughingly: "They don't. They just grab for anything, and if it bad, they fall down, flabergasted".
274 comments:
«Oldest ‹Older 201 – 274 of 274\\The USA and Europe crushed his hopes of joining the 'globalist" club (held from 1990's-2014) He's all "Russian" now.
That's just a "maskirovka". False facade he played for gullible westerners.
As any crook -- he just say to his pray that what that pray like to hear.
You have no experience talking with crooks too, it seems.
And where is that snake oil merchants... when they are so needed.
Well, go read some O'Henry as some light remedy. ;-)
I have plenty of experience dealing with crooks. I grew up in Venezuela and spent a year sailing the world. My Uncle Louie was a "carny". I was told as a boy that I'm related to PT Barnum. :)
\\\\Well, you can try to disprove it.
\\Again, I disagree. The era of "liberal globalism" is over. We're all "nationalists" again.
You can have it as your political stance.
I will not discuss it with you.
Try to brawl with Derpy about it.
Then you'll never understand why Ukraine will lose.
\\As the balloon attack has shown, we can and will defend our airspace.
Against 1 million of em? 1 billion of em?
Easily. We'll just start up a new Zuni rocket line.
\\ If necessary, we can also defend the vacuum above it.
And you said that SDI was wrong. ;-P
Wrong? No. Expensive? Yes.
\\ And we can launch a denial of service attack against TikTOK whenever we like. Most of the internet's infrastructure is already ours.
/A-a-a-nd?
How it'll influence my WiFi hotspot?
Or base station of 5G made by Huavei???
You don't think Huawei has a back door?
You really are ready to be leapfrogged in a technological sense.
All is needed -- some killer app devised by some smarty young chinese boy.
Well... that already happend.
Good for them! I grew up in the pre-computer office. I know how to run a business (shipyard) without any computers. :)
\\America's walls are of aluminum and in "Space". We own the "high ground" (space) and the "below ground" (under water). In the "Game of Throwns" we have most (not all) of the dragons.
/"Generals always preparing for past battles"(tm)
Star Wars was real???? Who knew?
\\Then what will become of their "Chinese values"? They'll be no better than "us". :P
/Well... you can try to talk about it with Chinese bomb. Or "smart" drone it would be delivered with.
But... ups, they'll talk in Mandarin. ;-P
But it'll all be written in binary. :)
\\I didn't say Lenin, I said Stalin. Stalin was a nationalist.
Of what Nation? Of what Nationality? :-)))
Another word. Napoleon was French Nationalist, yes? :-))))
And Alexander The Great was... Persian Nationalist? Or Egyptian? Or... no, don't say, don't spoler it, I'll try to solve that riddle myself... he was, Indian Nationalist... wannabe. :-)))))))))
\\Then why not depose Tito in '48?
Titoism - Wikipedia
en.wikipedia.org › wiki › Titoism
Titoism is a socialist political philosophy most closely associated with Josip Broz Tito during the Cold War. ... It is characterized by a broad Yugoslav identity ...
Or for short -- because he exactly was natiopnalist. And "our bloody bastard"... for Stalin.
\\Communism is most certainly an ideology. One with it's own crazy way of speaking, and etiquette (like leader applauding himself, as if always just "one of the people").
Naah.
That's it. That's why you do not get it. Do not know the facts.
There is NO such ideology as Communism.
That is just brand-name.
Under which many-many different -isms get flourishing.
Under Lenin... it was Lenin-ism.
Under Stalin -- Stalin-ism.
And so forth.
That is that historical manifestations of despotic-to-totalitarian regimes -- we call "communism" in broad sense.
But there is NO. NADA. ZILCH. ZERO.
Of anything that could be called Communism The REAL DEAL Thing. ;-)
Hard to understand, I know.
But, just try to relate to any religion out there. ;-)
There is many religions which snarky scientists calling "monotheistic".
But there is NO religion called Monotheism, isn't it? ;-)
But why??? I as snarky atheist would ask? Why??? If they ALL about one and the same thing -- ONE god. ;-P
\\The USSR as originally formed under Lenin.
And what was Nationality of people in a Nation called USSR???? ;-)
\\Communism is a totalitarian ideology.
GOTO "Communism is not ideology" ;-P
\\The what are The Three Represents?
That is... Blah-blah-blah.
For a gullible westerners.
And to shit into heads of youth, which would be forced to learn it in schools.
\\\\Putin has become a nationalist as well.
:-)))))))))))))
\\You'll notice how he didn't initially "crush Ukraine" as he will now.
Putin's Propaganda idea. That they "was not serious"...
why you do not eradicate that flea of propaganda out of your mind, I dunno.
\\Then you'll never understand why Ukraine will lose.
Yeah.
I know history of Ukraine... while you not.
But... *I* "will never understand..." :-))))))))))
\\Wrong? No. Expensive? Yes.
Ough... now I get it, what's wrong with my idea... of making robots from dirt.
It not expensive enough. :-)))
Maybe I should advertise it as "most expensive way to make robots" instead? :-)))
\\You don't think Huawei has a back door?
Your? ;-)
\\Star Wars was real???? Who knew?
And your shuttles was not real too?
\\But it'll all be written in binary. :)
Not hierogliphs???
;-)
\\I didn't say Lenin, I said Stalin. Stalin was a nationalist.
/Of what Nation? Of what Nationality? :-)))
Asked and answered. Lenin's "empire". The USSR. Yes, he could dream of "expanding" the USSR. But Stalin did not delude himself into believing his empire (unlike the more "ambitious" Lenin and Trotsky) would become global and unipolar. He accepted a "multipolar" outcome. Or in the case of his competition with the USA, a bi-polar world. That, and Stalin was more practical, and chose to fight his enemies "one at a time" instead of "all at once". That particular bit of historicism and Marxist delusion that workers around the world would join his cause and overthrow their "oppressors".
Another word. Napoleon was French Nationalist, yes? :-))))
And Alexander The Great was... Persian Nationalist? Or Egyptian? Or... no, don't say, don't spoler it, I'll try to solve that riddle myself... he was, Indian Nationalist... wannabe. :-)))))))))
Again, an empire, with France as it's center and colonies paying tribute... but not w/o competition from other "empires"... British and German and Russian and Austrian and Ottoman. Not "unipolar".
\\Then why not depose Tito in '48?
/Titoism - Wikipedia
en.wikipedia.org › wiki › Titoism
Titoism is a socialist political philosophy most closely associated with Josip Broz Tito during the Cold War. ... It is characterized by a broad Yugoslav identity ...
Or for short -- because he exactly was natiopnalist. And "our bloody bastard"... for Stalin.
Tito was in Stalin's orbit. Stalin could have had him killed/ replaced... just as he did Trotsky. But Tito was useful as a buffer.
\\Communism is most certainly an ideology. One with it's own crazy way of speaking, and etiquette (like leader applauding himself, as if always just "one of the people").
/Naah.
That's it. That's why you do not get it. Do not know the facts.
There is NO such ideology as Communism.
That is just brand-name.
Under which many-many different -isms get flourishing.
Like "capitalism"? No. Why? Ownership. Private Property. The "alienation" of property and ability to "escape" social duties/obligations/responsibilities with "money" or "barter" (exchanges of private property). There are only three types of social relations. And the bottom two "reciprocity" and "communality" were born from the concept of "private property". The third, "domination" is the horde leader. The male to him all women are his property. Freud's "primordial father" who is deposed by the "band of brothers" (Freud, "Totem and Taboo" and "Society and its' Discontents").
Under Lenin... it was Lenin-ism.
Under Stalin -- Stalin-ism.
And so forth.
Personal empires with utopian vs. practical limitations.
That is that historical manifestations of despotic-to-totalitarian regimes -- we call "communism" in broad sense.
But there is NO. NADA. ZILCH. ZERO.
Of anything that could be called Communism The REAL DEAL Thing. ;-)
Hard to understand, I know.
But, just try to relate to any religion out there. ;-)
Hordes don't exist? It's leaders have no harems? Every male does not wish to lead his own horde? Each one does not wish to kill all the other alpha males, appropriate their females, and become the only alpha? The global alpha?
There is many religions which snarky scientists calling "monotheistic".
/But there is NO religion called Monotheism, isn't it? ;-)
But why??? I as snarky atheist would ask? Why??? If they ALL about one and the same thing -- ONE god. ;-P
There was once. Aten. It was the first. Read Freud's "Moses and Monotheism". It was born of polytheism. Atheism could only come about with Christianity... the "death" of G_d (and all gods). And if there was a religion today called "monotheism" it would be Islam. It recognizes and incorporates the entire history of monotheism from the perspective of Hajar/Hagar, Isaac's real/ birth mother.
\\The USSR as originally formed under Lenin.
/And what was Nationality of people in a Nation called USSR???? ;-)
Russian. Then in '22 added Armenia, Azerbajan, Georgia, Ukraine, et al.
\\Communism is a totalitarian ideology.
GOTO "Communism is not ideology" ;-P
Private Property isn't an ideology? Who knew?
\\The what are The Three Represents?
/That is... Blah-blah-blah.
For a gullible westerners.
And to shit into heads of youth, which would be forced to learn it in schools.
It was a necessary change to Chinese Communism to expand "private property" in the form of "private businesses" AFTER the stupid collectivisation policies of the 30's-60's.
\\\\Putin has become a nationalist as well.
:-)))))))))))))
\\You'll notice how he didn't initially "crush Ukraine" as he will now.
/Putin's Propaganda idea. That they "was not serious"...
why you do not eradicate that flea of propaganda out of your mind, I dunno.
It was true at the time. Now it's all out war. Too bad for you.
\\Then you'll never understand why Ukraine will lose.
/Yeah.
I know history of Ukraine... while you not.
But... *I* "will never understand..." :-))))))))))
No, you'll just suck Putin's d*ck for the next decade and dream of emigrating. :P
\\Wrong? No. Expensive? Yes.
/Ough... now I get it, what's wrong with my idea... of making robots from dirt.
It not expensive enough. :-)))
Maybe I should advertise it as "most expensive way to make robots" instead? :-)))
Why do people buy caviar, it tastes like sh*t? Supply/Demand. But hey, they sell "water" now (before the 70's Americans would have thought THAT a crazy idea). Put it in a nice package and brand it as a "healthy" thing.
\\You don't think Huawei has a back door?
/Your? ;-)
Maybe. It would make the Chinese think that their comms were "secure" if we pretended to oppose it.
\\Star Wars was real???? Who knew?
And your shuttles was not real too?
Real EXPENSIVE.
\\But it'll all be written in binary. :)
Not hierogliphs???
Computers can be programmed with hieroglyphs???? I thought everything was getting away from "analog". :(
America's problem today is that it likes the idea of a Unipolar world, where everyone must do as the US government says...
...and our corporate elites will not be happy until everyone can buy a Coke in Pyongyang.
:P
\\Asked and answered.
Ok. Then give YOUR definition of "nationality" then.
\\But Stalin did not delude himself into believing his empire (unlike the more "ambitious" Lenin and Trotsky) would become global and unipolar. He accepted a "multipolar" outcome.
Yes. After he lost 50-something millions of his "troops" in try to achieve that global goal.
But well. No. WTF you are talking about???
What was Korean War for, then??? What was Vietnam War for then???
What Putin talking just NOW about???
\\America's problem today is that it likes the idea of a Unipolar world, where everyone must do as the US government says...
Because. There can be ONLY ONE law. Only one Justice.
Or what... you'd like a world where'd you could sail on a cruise ship, it could be boarded by pirates, you'd be enslaved. And your government would say "we cannot do anything here... that is in accordance to their laws".
SUCH a "multi-polar World" do you like? ;-P
\\Again, an empire, with France as it's center and colonies paying tribute... but not w/o competition from other "empires"... British and German and Russian and Austrian and Ottoman. Not "unipolar".
Nationalism == Imperialism???
\\Like "capitalism"? No. Why? Ownership. Private Property. The "alienation" of property and ability to "escape" social duties/obligations/responsibilities with "money" or "barter" (exchanges of private property). There are only three types of social relations. And the bottom two "reciprocity" and "communality" were born from the concept of "private property". The third, "domination" is the horde leader. The male to him all women are his property. Freud's "primordial father" who is deposed by the "band of brothers" (Freud, "Totem and Taboo" and "Society and its' Discontents").
What is capitalism?
Isn't it phenomenoloigical. It just "as is". And people trying to get a grasp of what it is??? Still.
They keep giving Nobel's prizes in Economy.
Isn't it way-way different, from other -isms. Which are normative. Mere declarations.
Unlivable. And unhealthy.
\\Hordes don't exist? It's leaders have no harems? Every male does not wish to lead his own horde? Each one does not wish to kill all the other alpha males, appropriate their females, and become the only alpha? The global alpha?
And how it relates to Communism???
\\Private Property isn't an ideology? Who knew?
Depend on how you'd define that i-word. ;-P
\\It was true at the time. Now it's all out war. Too bad for you.
???
Well, you really have no experience of street brawls, am I right? ;-)
\\No, you'll just suck Putin's d*ck for the next decade and dream of emigrating. :P
Too bad for that your attempt of trolling... Russian tryed to use it TOO MANY times already, on my watch. For me to react on it emotionally, like you'd like. ;-P
Wanna be sucker in one pond of shit with Russian losers -- NMP. :-))))))))
\\Computers can be programmed with hieroglyphs????
Well... and what is ASCII table, then? ;-P
\\Asked and answered.
/Ok. Then give YOUR definition of "nationality" then.
USA not Maryland or Oklahoma.
\\But Stalin did not delude himself into believing his empire (unlike the more "ambitious" Lenin and Trotsky) would become global and unipolar. He accepted a "multipolar" outcome.
Yes. After he lost 50-something millions of his "troops" in try to achieve that global goal.
But well. No. WTF you are talking about???
What was Korean War for, then??? What was Vietnam War for then???
What Putin talking just NOW about???
When Lenin died, Stalin stopped being Lenin's arm. He became Stalin's arm. And Stalin "accepted" a bi-polar world (Trotsky did NOT). Vietnam and Korea were about "containment" (George Kennan's strategy in the Isaiah Berlin letter). The Soviet empire didn't directly "expand the USSR" after WWII. It created a "bloc" of satellite nations under the Warsaw Pact.... much like the USA controls most of Western Europe under NATO. Containment applied not only to communism in the USSR, but to communism in China and Cuba and Vietnam as well.
\\America's problem today is that it likes the idea of a Unipolar world, where everyone must do as the US government says...
/Because. There can be ONLY ONE law. Only one Justice.
Or what... you'd like a world where'd you could sail on a cruise ship, it could be boarded by pirates, you'd be enslaved. And your government would say "we cannot do anything here... that is in accordance to their laws".
SUCH a "multi-polar World" do you like? ;-P
No, there can be many "goods" only not all of them can live "together". I like the idea of having choices as to which "goods" I want to pursue. Living in someone else's dream is called "nightmare". It's what Berlin termed "the unavoidability of conflicting ends" or, alternatively, the "incommensurability" of values. He once called this "the only truth which I have ever found out for myself... Some of the Great Goods cannot live together.... We are doomed to choose, and every choice may entail an irreparable loss." In short, it's what Michael Ignatieff summarized as "the tragic nature of choice".
Euripedes Hecuba - I may be a slave and weak as well, but the gods are strong, and custom too which prevails o'er them, for by custom it is that we believe in them and set up bounds of right and wrong for our lives. Now if this principle, when referred to thee, is to be set at naught, and they are to escape punishment who murder guests or dare to plunder the temples of gods, then is all fairness in things human at an end.
Pascal's "Pensees" - The result of this confusion is that one affirms the essence of justice to be the authority of the legislator; another, the interest of the sovereign; another, present custom, and this is the most sure. Nothing, according to reason alone, is just in itself; all changes with time. CUSTOM CREATES THE WHOLE OF EQUITY, FOR THE SIMPLE REASON THAT IT IS ACCEPTED. IT IS THE MYSTICAL FOUNDATION OF ITS AUTHORITY; WHOEVER CARRIES IT BACK TO FIRST PRINCIPLES DESTROYS IT. NOTHING IS SO FAULTY AS THOSE LAWS WHICH CORRECT FAULTS. He who obeys them because they are just, obeys a justice which is imaginary, and not the essence of law; it is quite self-contained, it is law and nothing more. He who will examine its motive will find it so feeble and so trifling that if he be not accustomed to contemplate the wonders of human imagination, he will marvel that one century has gained for it so much pomp and reverence. The art of opposition and of revolution is to unsettle established customs, sounding them even to their source, to point out their want of authority and justice. We must, it is said, get back to the natural and fundamental laws of the State, which an unjust custom has abolished. It is a game certain to result in the loss of all; nothing will be just on the balance. Yet people readily lend their ear to such arguments. They shake off the yoke as soon as they recognise it; and the great profit by their ruin, and by that of these curious investigators of accepted customs. But from a contrary mistake men sometimes think they can justly do everything which is not without an example. THAT IS WHY THE WISEST OF LEGISLATORS SAID THAT IT WAS NECESSARY TO DECEIVE MEN FOR THEIR OWN GOOD; and another, a good politician, "Cum veritatem qua liberetur ignoret, expedit quod fallatur."43 We must not see the fact of usurpation; law was once introduced without reason, and has become reasonable. We must make it regarded as authoritative, eternal, and conceal its origin, if we do not wish that it should soon come to an end.
43Saint Augustine, City of God, iv. 27. "As he has ignored the truth which frees, it is right he is mistaken."
\\USA not Maryland or Oklahoma.
But still, core of it are descendants of British empire. And your lang is English. And you percieve English culture as part of your own.
Well, USA not a nationality-based country.
\\When Lenin died, Stalin stopped being Lenin's arm. He became Stalin's arm.
That is such a primitivisation. And evidance that you do not know facts.
Like that popular bullshit that Lenin was New Tzar. And so was Stalin.
And Putin today.
Like one of your peers americans once tryed to reassure me, that Che-Ka was descendants of Royal Jandarmerie of Tzars.
To which I admitted -- that Minutmens must be called Royal Minutemens, then, yes? :-))))))
\\ And Stalin "accepted" a bi-polar world (Trotsky did NOT).
ANY arguments why it should be the case??? :-)))
But there is NONE.
He was preparing for a World War... with WHOM he planned to be "bi-polar"?
With his alter-ego in his own mind? :-))))))))
\\Vietnam and Korea were about "containment" (George Kennan's strategy in the Isaiah Berlin letter).
From your side. Yes.
\\The Soviet empire didn't directly "expand the USSR" after WWII. It created a "bloc" of satellite nations under the Warsaw Pact....
Aha... and Soviet Republics was sovereign and independent states who decided to unite with "Mother Russia" of their own volition??? Without ANY force applyed???
You really just a John Know Nothing. :-)))))
Well, not like I want to shame you for that.
Your fantastic perspectives is just too interesting and entertaining for that.
\\much like the USA controls most of Western Europe under NATO.
Aha... so you spawned clones of Rep and Dem parties everywhere?
\\Again, an empire, with France as it's center and colonies paying tribute... but not w/o competition from other "empires"... British and German and Russian and Austrian and Ottoman. Not "unipolar".
/Nationalism == Imperialism???
No. Nationalism, I only worry about one country, my country, no colonies, no imperialism. No "Blocs" No "satellites". Yes, you have allies or form a confederacy (if an enemy grows to powerful) and trading partners. But you don't control them or what goes on within them. Those alliances may shift depending upon circumstances, but you don't try and control those circumstances unless it would mean your "end" to ignore them (ie Hitler). Something like the Arcadian League or Achaean Confederacy.
\\Like "capitalism"? No. Why? Ownership. Private Property. The "alienation" of property and ability to "escape" social duties/obligations/responsibilities with "money" or "barter" (exchanges of private property). There are only three types of social relations. And the bottom two "reciprocity" and "communality" were born from the concept of "private property". The third, "domination" is the horde leader. The male to whom all women are his property. Freud's "primordial father" who is deposed by the "band of brothers" (Freud, "Totem and Taboo" and "Society and its' Discontents").
/What is capitalism?
Isn't it phenomenoloigical. It just "as is". And people trying to get a grasp of what it is??? Still.
They keep giving Nobel's prizes in Economy.
Isn't it way-way different, from other -isms. Which are normative. Mere declarations.
Unlivable. And unhealthy.
Capitalism is psychological. It uses the exchange of goods to maintain social relations through Commodity fetishism. It involves both "seen" and "unseen" qualities... especially when it moved from "barter" exchange" to "monetary (capital) exchanges".
\\Hordes don't exist? It's leaders have no harems? Every male does not wish to lead his own horde? Each one does not wish to kill all the other alpha males, appropriate their females, and become the only alpha? The global alpha?
/And how it relates to Communism???
The horde is the original form of "communism". Domination by a single "horde leader" who lawlessly does whatever pleases him. It's not "communality" for communality can only emerge once the horde leader is over-thrown by the "band of brothers" and the rule of "law" replaces him and a "tribe" evolves from it. But this means establishing "private property" (ever see the movie, "The gods must be crazy?")
\\Private Property isn't an ideology? Who knew?
/Depend on how you'd define that i-word. ;-P
Good point.
\\It was true at the time. Now it's all out war. Too bad for you.
/???
Well, you really have no experience of street brawls, am I right? ;-)
True. I try and avoid street brawls.
\\Computers can be programmed with hieroglyphs????
/Well... and what is ASCII table, then? ;-P
Binary, one step removed.
\\USA not Maryland or Oklahoma.
/But still, core of it are descendants of British empire. And your lang is English. And you percieve English culture as part of your own.
Well, USA not a nationality-based country.
Tell THAT to the Cherokee, who still have their own semi-autonomous lands. We are the Iroquois Confederacy, writ large.
\\When Lenin died, Stalin stopped being Lenin's arm. He became Stalin's arm.
/That is such a primitivisation. And evidance that you do not know facts.
Like that popular bullshit that Lenin was New Tzar. And so was Stalin.
And Putin today.
Like one of your peers americans once tryed to reassure me, that Che-Ka was descendants of Royal Jandarmerie of Tzars.
To which I admitted -- that Minutmens must be called Royal Minutemens, then, yes? :-))))))
...up until the moment they change sides.
\\ And Stalin "accepted" a bi-polar world (Trotsky did NOT).
/ANY arguments why it should be the case??? :-)))
But there is NONE.
He was preparing for a World War... with WHOM he planned to be "bi-polar"?
With his alter-ego in his own mind? :-))))))))
What is a "Trotskyite" then? What thought(s) distinguish him from a Stalinist?
\\The Soviet empire didn't directly "expand the USSR" after WWII. It created a "bloc" of satellite nations under the Warsaw Pact....
/Aha... and Soviet Republics was sovereign and independent states who decided to unite with "Mother Russia" of their own volition??? Without ANY force applyed???
You really just a John Know Nothing. :-)))))
Well, not like I want to shame you for that.
Your fantastic perspectives is just too interesting and entertaining for that.
We didn't pacify Germany with "force"? Japan? Occupy Italy and France? Who knew?
\\much like the USA controls most of Western Europe under NATO.
Aha... so you spawned clones of Rep and Dem parties everywhere?
No. We just rewrote their Constitutions along similar lines.
NOT Democrat/Republican. Tammany and Cincinnatus.
;P
:)
\\No. Nationalism, I only worry about one country, my country, no colonies, no imperialism. No "Blocs" No "satellites".
Again.
Napoleon -- was nationalist?
Alexander -- was nationalist?
Stalin -- nationalist? Putin?
NO.
They ALL was foreign to nations they (wanted to, in case of Putin) conquered.
And they all wanted to create Empires!!!
\\Capitalism is psychological. It uses the exchange of goods to maintain social relations through Commodity fetishism. It involves both "seen" and "unseen" qualities... especially when it moved from "barter" exchange" to "monetary (capital) exchanges".
That is just one of thousands possible theories. ;-)
See, why I like techs. There all is definite and unambigious. ;-P
\\The horde is the original form of "communism".
Not, from that definition I know.
Where is workers in horde? Where is burgeous??? :-)))
\\(ever see the movie, "The gods must be crazy?")
Yeah. But like second movie more. ;-)
And there is Third movie too. ;-P
\\/Depend on how you'd define that i-word. ;-P
\\Good point.
It's not like I tryed to make one. :-)
I just genuinely do not get it. How to make a clue out of it.
Remember... I'm techy nerd, not social phylosopher. ;-)
\\/Well... and what is ASCII table, then? ;-P
\\Binary, one step removed.
How do you know that that binary... is in ASCII? ;-) How can you see it?
Hint. Character tables. ;-)
\\Tell THAT to the Cherokee, who still have their own semi-autonomous lands. We are the Iroquois Confederacy, writ large.
Then... get ready to Russians (Chineses) will come to you to "save their brothers" ;-P
\\What is a "Trotskyite" then? What thought(s) distinguish him from a Stalinist?
Ideological cliche, to put em in jail, and to shut em in a head.
\\We didn't pacify Germany with "force"? Japan? Occupy Italy and France? Who knew?
And you stayed there? started teaching them that that is wrong to call themself Germans, Japaneses, Italians??? That they trully are foster children of Great American Brotherhood of all Mankind. And need to learn to speak your Great American Language, and your Great American Culture?
And better forget that once they called themself other then "brotherhooders" or "people of AmBRMaFFgg@$%"
"Happy Mardis Gras!" from America's newest Indians.
Yep.
Russians and Chinese for sure will see em as needing "relearning".
\\No. Nationalism, I only worry about one country, my country, no colonies, no imperialism. No "Blocs" No "satellites".
/Again.
Napoleon -- was nationalist?
Alexander -- was nationalist?
Stalin -- nationalist? Putin?
NO.
They ALL was foreign to nations they (wanted to, in case of Putin) conquered.
And they all wanted to create Empires!!!
Empire=Step1 on road to globalism from nationalism. War w/Spain after Civil War was beginning of the beginning of the American Empire... a step beyong the Monroe Doctrine. Guantanamo. The Phillipines.
\\Capitalism is psychological. It uses the exchange of goods to maintain social relations through Commodity fetishism. It involves both "seen" and "unseen" qualities... especially when it moved from "barter" exchange" to "monetary (capital) exchanges".
/That is just one of thousands possible theories. ;-)
See, why I like techs. There all is definite and unambigious. ;-P
lol! How do you define "techs"? I define it like Oswald Spengler. And money is a "technic" (technique).
\\The horde is the original form of "communism".
Not, from that definition I know.
Where is workers in horde? Where is burgeous??? :-)))
They aren't there... because there is no "private property". Everything is the horde leader's property. Private property has "been abolished".
\\(ever see the movie, "The gods must be crazy?")
/Yeah. But like second movie more. ;-)
And there is Third movie too. ;-P
Isn't one "private property/Cole bottle" enough?
\\/Depend on how you'd define that i-word. ;-P
\\Good point.
It's not like I tryed to make one. :-)
I just genuinely do not get it. How to make a clue out of it.
Remember... I'm techy nerd, not social phylosopher. ;-)
The corollary to an idea that relies upon the extension of that original idea into a narrative and pattern for future behaviour. An idea of "good" or "bad" (like Adam/Eve after the apple- knowledge of good & evil... no longer listen to G_d's Word, but have own opinions. Original sin, get "cast out of the Garden of Eden and eating from the tree of life).
\\/Well... and what is ASCII table, then? ;-P
\\Binary, one step removed.
How do you know that that binary... is in ASCII? ;-) How can you see it?
Hint. Character tables. ;-)
Does the computer need it to run/process code?
\\Tell THAT to the Cherokee, who still have their own semi-autonomous lands. We are the Iroquois Confederacy, writ large.
/Then... get ready to Russians (Chineses) will come to you to "save their brothers" ;-P
They speak Navajo? ;)
\\What is a "Trotskyite" then? What thought(s) distinguish him from a Stalinist?
/Ideological cliche, to put em in jail, and to shut em in a head.
Why so many Trotskyites today then?
\\We didn't pacify Germany with "force"? Japan? Occupy Italy and France? Who knew?
/And you stayed there? started teaching them that that is wrong to call themself Germans, Japaneses, Italians??? That they trully are foster children of Great American Brotherhood of all Mankind. And need to learn to speak your Great American Language, and your Great American Culture?
And better forget that once they called themself other then "brotherhooders" or "people of AmBRMaFFgg@$%"
Yes, we stayed there. Japan too. My parents were part of US Occupation forces in Japan, before I was born.
Just like Russian Naval bases in Crimea/ Sevastapol. It's why America is spending billions to reposition it's bases from Okinawa to Wake Island.
from Wiki:
Trotskyists are critical of Stalinism as they oppose Joseph Stalin's theory of socialism in one country in favour of Trotsky's theory of permanent revolution. Trotskyists criticize the bureaucracy and anti-democratic current developed in the Soviet Union under Stalin.
\\Trotskyists are critical of Stalinism as they oppose Joseph Stalin's theory of socialism in one country in favour of Trotsky's theory of permanent revolution. Trotskyists criticize the bureaucracy and anti-democratic current developed in the Soviet Union under Stalin.
That is going in that genre of "discussions" in-between prostitutes about who of em are more dirtier whore. ;-P
\\Yes, we stayed there. Japan too. My parents were part of US Occupation forces in Japan, before I was born.
And did all other things listed too???
So, how come? that I and all world can still see em as distinctly Japanese?
And nobody calling em "dough, you all americans, meh"... as it is with Ukrainians?
\\Why so many Trotskyites today then?
Why youth going with Comandante Che Gevara prints on theor t-shorts??? :-))))
\\They speak Navajo? ;)
They are oppressed minors. ;-P
Opressed with that that you FORCED them to talk in some artifical langauge, just to make them forget that they was Russian/Chinese/Arians. ;-P
\\Does the computer need it to run/process code?
Well. Still. All source code is in ASCII...
\\The corollary to an idea that relies upon the extension of that original idea into a narrative and pattern for future behaviour. An idea of "good" or "bad" (like Adam/Eve after the apple- knowledge of good & evil... no longer listen to G_d's Word, but have own opinions. Original sin, get "cast out of the Garden of Eden and eating from the tree of life).
I have enough cultural affinity to get that...
But your point, still far from being clear to me.
There is no cunning treaks what so ever. Just "as is". I'm as flabergasted as I am here. :-/
\\Isn't one "private property/Cole bottle" enough?
That... sounds like "who need that rainbow? with such a multitude of colors? while ONE color SHOULD be enough"... and that color is black, of course.
\\They aren't there... because there is no "private property". Everything is the horde leader's property. Private property has "been abolished".
Very artifical (re)construction.
\\lol! How do you define "techs"? I define it like Oswald Spengler. And money is a "technic" (technique).
Technology | Oxford Classical Dictionary
oxfordre.com › classics › view › acrefore › acr...
The term “technology” comes from the ancient Greek τέχνη, techne, meaning “art, skill, craft.” In modern practice, definitions of technology often vary ...
\\Empire=Step1 on road to globalism from nationalism. War w/Spain after Civil War was beginning of the beginning of the American Empire... a step beyong the Monroe Doctrine. Guantanamo. The Phillipines.
And still... you are far-far away from being real deal thing. ;-P
\\Yes, we stayed there. Japan too. My parents were part of US Occupation forces in Japan, before I was born.
/And did all other things listed too???
So, how come? that I and all world can still see em as distinctly Japanese?
And nobody calling em "dough, you all americans, meh"... as it is with Ukrainians?
Because we aren't the British and we no longer colonialize our subject states (like the Phillipines once). We get them to colonialize themselves.
\\Why so many Trotskyites today then?
/Why youth going with Comandante Che Gevara prints on theor t-shorts??? :-))))
No, the "true believers". I used to come across lots of them.
\\Does the computer need it to run/process code?
/Well. Still. All source code is in ASCII...
A code on top of a code.
\\The corollary to an idea that relies upon the extension of that original idea into a narrative and pattern for future behaviour. An idea of "good" or "bad" (like Adam/Eve after the apple- knowledge of good & evil... no longer listen to G_d's Word, but have own opinions. Original sin, get "cast out of the Garden of Eden and eating from the tree of life).
/I have enough cultural affinity to get that...
But your point, still far from being clear to me.
There is no cunning treaks what so ever. Just "as is". I'm as flabergasted as I am here. :-/
These ideas then get taken for granted as if true and eternal... when they are mere customs/traditions. That "democracy is the best system" or "Every man deserves justice" (or not). Or "We must help Ukraine achieve their independence." It's an ideology born of customs and traditions.
\\Isn't one "private property/Coke bottle" enough?
/That... sounds like "who need that rainbow? with such a multitude of colors? while ONE color SHOULD be enough"... and that color is black, of course.
One "private property" was the source of conflict in the tribe. So the "idea" comes to abolish that "private property"... w/o recognizing all the other "private properties (wives/husbands) already in the tribe.
\\They aren't there... because there is no "private property". Everything is the horde leader's property. Private property has "been abolished".
/Very artifical (re)construction.
Yet found in nature all the time. The Hippo "beachmaster". The male lion pride. The Silverback gorilla. Man is not a herd animal. He's a horde animal (Freud).
\\lol! How do you define "techs"? I define it like Oswald Spengler. And money is a "technic" (technique).
/Technology | Oxford Classical Dictionary
oxfordre.com › classics › view › acrefore › acr...
The term “technology” comes from the ancient Greek τέχνη, techne, meaning “art, skill, craft.” In modern practice, definitions of technology often vary ...
\\Empire=Step1 on road to globalism from nationalism. War w/Spain after Civil War was beginning of the beginning of the American Empire... a step beyond the Monroe Doctrine. Guantanamo. The Phillipines.
/And still... you are far-far away from being real deal thing. ;-P
Because we're still conquering and colonizing our own country. We still have frontiers. We haven't enough people to do so elsewhere. It's why our armies tend to "leave and go home" (ala "Cincinnatus") after the battle (although we me leave some occupied fortifications and citadels to keep our conquered allies loyal). That may not always remain true.
...besides, disciplinary societies are so nineteenth century. The new society, is the society of control.
...and resulting heterotopia.
HARDtalk - Olesya Khromeychuk, Ukrainian Historian and Writer
www.bbc.co.uk › iplayer › episode › hardtalk-...
HARDtalk - Olesya Khromeychuk, Ukrainian Historian and Writer · Duration 25 mins · First shown12:30am 22 Feb 2023 · Available for 11 months.
Ukraine is currently a space of deviation and crisis within the American heterotopia, nothing more, nothing less. Our "doctors" (USMC) will be arriving to "cure the insane" likely sooner than later. :(
\\Because we're still conquering and colonizing our own country. We still have frontiers.
Whatever you say... ;-P
Hint. To became one, you need to make your army out of mercenaries -- fighting for you for citizenship. ;-)
\\Yet found in nature all the time. The Hippo "beachmaster". The male lion pride. The Silverback gorilla. Man is not a herd animal. He's a horde animal (Freud).
And bonobos too. ;-P
\\These ideas then get taken for granted as if true and eternal... when they are mere customs/traditions. That "democracy is the best system" or "Every man deserves justice" (or not). Or "We must help Ukraine achieve their independence." It's an ideology born of customs and traditions.
So... what? (yawn)
That's pretty much... a truism.
\\A code on top of a code.
Yap.
Code all way down. ;-P
\\No, the "true believers". I used to come across lots of them.
And how'd you distinguish... true from non-true??? (tongue in cheek) :-)
\\Because we aren't the British and we no longer colonialize our subject states (like the Phillipines once). We get them to colonialize themselves.
Whatever you say... :-)
I think new shortcut needed. Whatever you say -- WYS. Good idea?
It would mean, that though I see your point... I do not see a meat on it.
And I not a dog to like ogling empty bones. ;-P
\\Our "doctors" (USMC) will be arriving to "cure the insane" likely sooner than later. :(
Well... Black Hawks already there.
So... time for all other animals... or maybe even generals, to come, isn't it? ;-)
\\...and resulting heterotopia.
Lem, Lem, Lem...
re: Ukrainian "sovereignty"... :P
Are you ready to go IN? ;-P
\\re: Ukrainian "sovereignty"... :P
I know history of Ukraine... you not. What you trying to scary/amuse/bewild me???
Guess who?!! ;-P
Codes and chifers. ;-P
https://stackoverflow.com/questions/9229601/what-is-in-c-code
ru rdy go in?
Again, a physical space that can impose its' own "discipline" upon my "sovereign" body. Why would I go in? I can stay out here in the "virtual" world, and be kept out of places I'd like to go by paywalls, or government or corporate firewalls. How much time do you spend outside the sovereignty of your own house? on-line? what if I were to take away your Twitter Tweeting privileges? What if I were to outlaw your "brand" and "make fun of it"? What if your Bit_coin couldn't be used to buy ammo for your AK-47?
:P
:)
You complain about "Russian Control" and their "disciplinary society. Our "control society" simply keeps you OUT of places you're not allowed to go in. Ours may seem "nicer" to you, but we've got "disciplinary spaces" worse than Russia in Ukraine.
You want to enforce your borders with Russia. America and Europe want to TEAR THEM DOWN and replace them with "virtual walls". You'll be kept out of places that you'll NEVER EVEN KNOW that you were kept out of.
You'll go to Disneyland, and only have 'A' tickets and only know about the 'A' rides..
You'll be an epsilon in Huxley's Brave New World... and you'll be "happy".
How the world really works...
Of more interest?
\\Again, a physical space that can impose its' own "discipline" upon my "sovereign" body. Why would I go in?
But... you allowed it to enter your mind. That is most intrinsic, most intimate way of "entering".
Way, after which it doesn't matter any more -- where is your body recides. ;-P
\\and be kept out of places I'd like to go by paywalls, or government or corporate firewalls.
Do you think there is something interesting??? Behing that *-walls???
I myself come to conclusion, that if one wants something interesting -- he must make it himself. ;-P
\\what if I were to take away your Twitter Tweeting privileges?
Why do you think I'm going as anon? ;-P
\\Ours may seem "nicer" to you, but we've got "disciplinary spaces" worse than Russia in Ukraine.
So what?
Problem with RFia is not with it having "disciplinary spaces"
but with applying em indiscriminately.
Would you like to be punished for something you never thought was a crime, and which you did many times without any detriments before, like post in your blog, like thought crime???
I bet... you cannot even imagine -- how's that possible.
Same as before with being robbered on a street.
With being punched in your face.
THAT'S exactly because you accustomed for that "disciplinary spaces" protections you burgeoning on whole your life.
And now you saying "naah, Ukrainians, you don't need it. better turn to 'freedoms' of Mother Rusha, freedom to be punished for nothing, freedom to die for liliPut" and etc, and etc...
That looks like "let they eat cakes". :-))))
Some very valid points. Let me address what was, to me, the main one. Being subject to "arbitrary" non-judicial and judicial abuses.
Why do people obey the law?
. . . the advent of Law entails a kind of ‘disalienation’: in so far as the Other itself appears submitted to the ‘absolute condition’ of Law, the subject is no more at the mercy of the Other’s whim, its desire is no more totally alienated in the Other’s desire. . . In contrast to the ‘post-structuralist’ notion of a law checking, canalizing, alienating, oppressing ‘Oedipianizing’ some previous ‘flux of desire,’ Law is here conceived as an agency of ‘disalienation’ and ‘liberation’: it opens our access to desire by enabling us to disengage ourselves from the rule of the Other’s whim.
- Slavoj Zizek, "For They Know Not What They Do"
In the last two decades, Americans have seen the breakdown of "impartiality" in the law. It now serves the needs of corporate elites and federal bureaucrats. It no longer "checks" or "restricts" them. They simply choose to NOT enforce it against their own. It's why Hunter Biden can get a $600k/month no-show job with Burisma (NMP you say) and Senators can sell weapons to Ukraine in return for kickbacks to the "charitable foundations" and campaign slush funds (Again you say NMP). We (America) has become much like Putin's oligarchy. And yes, you rightly object to being ruled by Russia, but think that with America "things will be different". I'm here to tell you, they won't.
It used to be different. Corruption was once kept "out of sight". But now, like Russia, it stands in the clear light of day. It is no longer the "shy flower" it once was. It has become, like in Russia, a brazen whore.
...and where once we could "democratically" throw the whores out of office... that is no longer true. They print as many ballots as their candidates need to win. And there is nothing we can do to stop them. America is NOT a "democracy".
Money and freedom have corrupted her to her core.
. . . In contrast to the ‘post-structuralist’ notion of a law checking, canalizing, alienating, oppressing ‘Oedipianizing’ some previous ‘flux of desire,’ Law is here conceived as an agency of ‘disalienation’ and ‘liberation’: it opens our access to desire by enabling us to disengage ourselves from the rule of the Other’s whim.
...It's no longer "Oedipalizing". It is "Schizophrenializing."
\\Let me address what was, to me, the main one. Being subject to "arbitrary" non-judicial and judicial abuses.
WYS.
'Cause. You know, Lem.
I will not try to find colorful words. As isn't any point in me trying to prozeliting among you.
As Lem showed (in "GolemXIV" for example) that there is much more important "abuses". That stem from our being result of evolution. Which made as the way it made us. Animals... as perfect slaves of their bodies. They do just that their body makes em to do. And willingly. And happy-go-luckyly. Even if it leads em to their premature demise.
But we, clever monkeys... happen to posess Brains. Which became creddle of Mind...
Oh, I said that I will not be colorful. :-)))
Well, then I'll stop with "prozeliting" too...
Conclusion: Intrinsic inner contradiction between Body and Mind (not Brain) -- CANNOT be resolved.
Either Body will prevail... and die. Or... Mind will became Free Mind.
MEANS?
I don't care about non-pragmatic, non-technological solutions to the questions like.
\\Why do people obey the law?
\\ We (America) has become much like Putin's oligarchy.
Became? :-)))
RFia was built by YOUR example, remember?
But... with crucial difference at play. ;-P
\\And yes, you rightly object to being ruled by Russia, but think that with America "things will be different". I'm here to tell you, they won't.
Those who drowning... have no time to decide to which rope to grap on.
But still... that is better, way better than to stay as that Buridan's Donkey. ;-P
\\...It's no longer "Oedipalizing". It is "Schizophrenializing."
Well... I can propose only technological solutions, remember? ;-)
...and with "technological solutions" hurry in the post-human/ cybernetic epoch.
...the distance between our inner life, the line of our thoughts, and external reality is the basis of the perception of ourselves as free. We are free in our thoughts precisely in so far as they are at a distance from reality, so that we can play with them, conduct thought experiments, and engage in dreaming, with no direct consequences to reality. No one can control us there.
Once our inner life is directly linked to reality, so that our thoughts have direct consequences in reality – or can be directly regulated by a machine that is part of reality, and are in this sense no longer ‘ours’ – we effectively enter a post-human state.
Neuralink should thus make us raise basic questions: not just “Will we still be human if immersed in a wired brain?” but also “What do we understand by ‘human’ when we raise such questions?” - Slavoj Zizek.
Either that, or accept our roles as "machines within the machines" of a Deleuzian Society of Control.
What "machine" will you invent for yourself, Q? A SciFi writing machine? The father of a new "species" of AI directed self-replicating machines?
Still. I seems you need to be teached what pragmatism is.
When you come to your car. All that tirvias: about it need gas, charged accumulator, certain levels of oil and etc stuff -- that is, pragmatism.
Well, most of the people tend to forget, or even postpone need for such a knowledge. By redirecting it to "those who knows better". Or, by going completele happy-go-lucky... with known results.
Also...
well, enough for first lesson. ;-P
\\Either that, or accept our roles as "machines within the machines" of a Deleuzian Society of Control.
Phylosophers who trying to talk about techs -- idiots. Except Lem. ;-P
Or... better. WYS.
Still. I seems you need to be teached what pragmatism is.
When you come to your car. All that tirvias: about it need gas, charged accumulator, certain levels of oil and etc stuff -- that is, pragmatism.
Well, most of the people tend to forget, or even postpone need for such a knowledge. By redirecting it to "those who knows better". Or, by going completele happy-go-lucky... with known results.
Also...
well, enough for first lesson. ;-P
So you've consulted an Intellectual Property professional...
\\Either that, or accept our roles as "machines within the machines" of a Deleuzian Society of Control.
Phylosophers who trying to talk about techs -- idiots. Except Lem. ;-P
Or... better. WYS.
Nobody listens to philosophers except other philosophers. Nobody else would believe them.
Case in point... "Q".
\\So you've consulted an Intellectual Property professional...
Einstain should be one to take a patent on his Relativity Theory?
Or... maybe that should be Brather's Wright?
Oh... no, I het it -- Jobs should be hiring IP specialist... instead of mangling with that stupid Woz. Yes? ;-)
\\Nobody listens to philosophers except other philosophers. Nobody else would believe them.
Hmmm... still, we discussing em. I -- Lem, you -- Zizek.
As well as other like Plato and Socrates, and Aristotle...
Might be... something IS, in that idea... of liking wisdom. ;-)
Dale Carnegie made millions selling "wisdoms".
Nobody could sell the "Achievement Society" like Dale...
...but as the Greeks would say, "Μηδὲν ἄγαν"
So? This thread fizzled out too?
once a thread goes over 200 comments, it's time to move.
Well... I see it not that unconvinient. But... your blog, your rules.
I skimmed through half of that 200-something posts.
To summarise.
It seems a good one would be your: "Knowing the precise moment to grab hold of Kairos knot".
And for that I have a good story. ;-)
Amateur ethologist (animal behavior scientists) asks older one:
"I see that orangutans -- they are so agile! They can fly through jungles like that Tarzan. But how they know which liana to grab???"
Old one answered, laughingly: "They don't. They just grab for anything, and if it bad, they fall down, flabergasted".
;-)
Good summary! :)
You welcome! :-)
Yesterday was 265 and now 267 again. Well, 268 now.
Bill Gates likes to put old comments into my SPAM folder so that I have to repost them. Please address your complaints to him.
I understand. Just find it curious. Sorry for the bother.
Only... Why Gates? While that is Google's service. Brin and... how's that other one, not that flashy one... name.
Well, whatever.
No need to answer, if you'dn't like to.
Less and less comments... was 270, now 268(269) :-))))
Clearly... that is funny.
I do not control the Spam algorithm... if I did, I wouldn't keep finding my OWN comments in it. :(
But still... it's interesting to find what they stumble upon, isn't it?
It's better o know prefs of our Digital Masters beforehand? ;-P
Discovering and experiencing the arbitrariness of a Master's whim merely creates anxiety.
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