
Victoria Trumbull, "Memory is not stored in the brain"
Time, not space, contains memory
The leading theories of memory describe it as being stored in the brain – similarly, some argue, to the way a computer stores memory. But this assumption relies on materialist assumptions and problematically bypasses the hard problem of consciousness. Memory is not stored in space, but in time, argues philosopher Victoria Trumbull.
From ancient times, philosophers have used the “storage” metaphor to describe the phenomenon of remembering. Memory is often pictured as a vast warehouse or library of experiences. In the past century, this “storage” metaphor has come to be taken literally: neuroscientists today maintain that a “memory” is simply a given pattern or collection of patterns of neural activity. This hypothesis forms a key part of the greater worldview known as “materialism” or “physicalism”: in brief, the idea that reality consists solely in physical stuff, and, correspondingly, that the human mind is reducible or equivalent to the body or the brain.
The central problem with this picture of memory is that, like many descriptions of the mind, the storage metaphor is only a metaphor. It feels intuitive to say that we “store” memories like books in a library or files on a hard drive. While this is a useful metaphor insofar as it helps us to describe and express what it feels like to remember, it cannot be anything more than this.
In order to prove that memories are stored in the brain, we would need to be able to observe this. But this is not a fact that belongs to the order of observation and experimentation. The most that neuroscientists can do is track cerebral activity and attempt to correlate the physical brain state to a description of concurrent mental experience. In carrying out experiments of this kind, however, the neuroscientist has already provisionally assumed that there is an exact identity or perfect equivalence between the mental state and the cerebral state. In other words, the hypothesis of localization that the neuroscientist has set out to prove has already been assumed as an initial axiom of his or her research. The correlation between brain activity and memory reports doesn’t prove that memories are stored in the brain any more than the correlation between footprints and walking proves that walking is stored in footprints, or the correlation between the piano and a sonata proves that the sonata is stored in the piano.
If we assume that the brain stores up discrete, localisable memories, it then becomes extremely difficult to explain how the brain can be said to generate, preserve, and reconstruct “representations” of this kind. How can the brain translate an image of experience, itself intangible and invisible, into a physical record or neural pattern? The neuroscientist is left with the philosophical challenge famously known as the “hard problem of consciousness”: given the complex physical machinations of the brain, whence arises the conscious experience of remembering?
It does not make sense to say that we “store” the smell of coffee, the face of our mother, or the sound of a Mozart symphony “in” the brain. But can a pattern of neural firings, like the embossed print of Braille or the successive taps of Morse code, indicate or contain these prior events, or even mark their salient outlines? In recent years, the idea of “neural code” and the general hypothesis that the brain operates like a computer has been offered as one way of trying to solve this puzzle. But this framework simply provides us with another metaphor; the computer model is no more explanatory than the storage metaphor itself. Neuronal configurations may very well be a biological prerequisite for remembering, but it does not follow from this fact that these configurations are the memory, nor that they can be said to “represent,” “portray,” “depict,” or “contain” what is being remembered.
___
When neuroscientists locate memory “in” the brain, what they’re really finding is that certain brain regions are active during remembering
___
In truth, the theory of localization far exceeds the facts of current neurobiology. When neuroscientists locate memory “in” the brain, what they’re really finding is that certain brain regions are active during remembering. But being active during a process is not the same thing as being the storage location for that process. The brain is undoubtedly involved in remembering, but involvement does not necessitate containment.
In most neuroscientific experiments intended to prove that memories are stored in the brain, the researchers study habit, not recollection proper. Habit is a motor attitude or pattern retained by the body or nervous system; it is characterized by repetition and acquired by motor education. Memory is personal recollection, involving the persistence of the past under the form of an image, reflecting a unique moment of our original history. In famous experiments with rats and sea slugs, the kind of “memory” being studied is nothing more than a physiological response. What has been shown successfully in experiments of this kind is that physical conditioning produces a regular motor reaction to a given external stimulus, and that brain activity prepares and paves the way for the systematization of this motor response. In other words, what has been proven is that habit is effectuated via lasting changes in synaptic architecture. But to move from the fear response of a mouse to a human episodic recollection would require more than an increase in the number and complexity of neurons: it requires a distinction in kind, a categorical leap from motor habituation to conscious evocation.
Furthermore, if localization theory were true, and if memory-images are indeed “stored up” as cellular or neural traces, then the impairment of certain brain regions should definitely correspond to the destruction of certain well-defined recollections. But this is precisely not the case. For example, on a timescale varying from weeks to years, many patients who have suffered from a stroke come to recover their once-lost ability to speak and comprehend words. Similarly, certain objects or sound-based triggers can cause patients suffering from Alzheimer’s to suddenly recover memories that were previously lost in obscurity. Perhaps what we find to be impaired by brain lesions is the mechanism required to recall or express certain kinds of memories, rather than a firm and final destruction of the recollections themselves.
What, then, are memory-images? First of all, it is important to note that the objects of memory are not like the objects of perception. They are neither visible nor tangible. The remembered thing or event is not found in the present, except somehow intangibly “in” the mind, while the perceived object is present physically and externally. Second, memory-images essentially bear the mark of “pastness.” They are attached to the past by their deepest roots, so that we immediately recognize a memory as distinct from a perception and thus know it as “memory.” An individual recollection points to the wealth or totality of the past that it belongs to and from whence it originates; it points to the total history of the personal life we have lived since our birth.
For these two reasons, our desire to think of memories as “things” that are capable of being “stored” in a receptacle is what we philosophers might call a “category error.” Memory-images are not objects or things. We thus cannot apply to them the same categories, such as the necessity of “being contained somewhere” that we apply to the things of space. The relationship of “container” to “contained” here arises from a misguided analogy with material objects. Why should recollections, which are neither visible nor tangible, need a container, and how could they have one? We could say, again metaphorically, that they exist “in” the mind, but “mind” is not a literal container for mental experiences any more than the number 10 can be said to be a “container” for the series “1, 2, 3…etc.”
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If we assume from the start that everything mental must be reducible to something physical, then we close the possibility of understanding the mind on its own terms
___
Memory is, essentially, a fact of time—it is the persistence of the past—and, because it is a temporal phenomenon, it is fundamentally extra-spatial. To extend to memories, to a series of moments in time, the obligation of “being contained” in a place is to transfer to a temporal phenomenon a quality which applies only to the collection of material bodies perceived in space. And it is this series of observations which leads us directly to the reality of the mind: because the past overflows the present, memory overflows the brain; and because memory overflows the brain, mind overflows the body.
Perhaps what the brain does in all of this is far less extravagant. The body or brain can be said to retain and resume specific habits, patterns, or motor attitudes. Most importantly, the brain provides the motor basis for recall. The capacity to remember certainly depends functionally upon the health and integrity of certain brain regions. Thus, if you damage certain parts of the brain, then you diminish the capacity for recollection within the present; you do not, however, destroy the images themselves. If we go further than this, if we say that a brain injury abolishes individual recollections, then we are forced to assume that psychological states are miraculously capable of springing about from anatomical configurations, and thus to consequences that partake of the metaphysical rather than observational order. The invigorating opportunity for neuroscientific research is to determine by what mechanism the brain concretely serves the dynamics of remembrance, but the storage hypothesis will only hinder neuroscience from pursuing its natural course.
If we assume from the start that everything mental must be reducible to something physical, then we close the possibility of understanding the mind on its own terms. We have consigned ourselves to translating the wealth of subjective experience into impoverished neural patterns, only to then realize that this has not helped us to “explain” memory in any meaningful sense of the word. A genuine science of memory would begin by questioning the storage metaphor itself. Perhaps memories are not stored “anywhere.” Perhaps the brain’s role is not to house the past, but to facilitate our engagement with it.
212 comments:
1 – 200 of 212 Newer› Newest»Memory is stored in the storehouse consciousness . Among other stuff.
Storehouse consciousness (ālaya-vijñāna) is a core concept in Buddhist philosophy, particularly the Yogācāra school, that refers to a deep, subliminal level of the mind where all past experiences, habits, and karmic "seeds" are stored.
Yap.
Staunch antiscientiffic antirational delusional religious BS))))))
Of type only cretins would believe in.
//We have consigned ourselves to translating the wealth of subjective experience into impoverished neural patterns, only to then realize that this has not helped us to “explain” memory in any meaningful sense of the word
Yawn. BS.
What ideas about memories have had ancient Greeks? Few.
Much less then we have now, when we know neuroscience, we have tomography and computer simulations.
Like Blue Brain project.
WHAT such imbeciles will be talking about when such simulation will reach maturity?
Well, but we know what -- they'll became neo-luddits and will try to bomb out that simulation. To not allow that Truth, that Reality to exist.
Yawn.
Thank you for confirming the truth and reality of Buddha's teachings. As well as other enlightened beings.
Your contribution is greatly appreciated. Namaste...
And to you... pleasurable consuming of endogenous opioids from believing in false mind-numbing shit. ;-p
Hesiod, "Theogony"
...[53] Them in Pieria did Mnemosyne (Memory), who reigns over the hills of Eleuther, bear of union with the father, the son of Cronos, a forgetting of ills and a rest from sorrow. For nine nights did wise Zeus lie with her, entering her holy bed remote from the immortals. And when a year was passed and the seasons came round as the months waned, and many days were accomplished, she bare nine daughters, all of one mind, whose hearts are set upon song and their spirit free from care, a little way from the topmost peak of snowy Olympus. There are their bright dancing-places and beautiful homes, and beside them the Graces and Himerus (Desire) live in delight. And they, uttering through their lips a lovely voice, sing the laws of all and the goodly ways of the immortals, uttering their lovely voice. Then went they to Olympus, delighting in their sweet voice, with heavenly song, and the dark earth resounded about them as they chanted, and a lovely sound rose up beneath their feet as they went to their father. And he was reigning in heaven, himself holding the lightning and glowing thunderbolt, when he had overcome by might his father Cronos; and he distributed fairly to the immortals their portions and declared their privileges....
...THE CASTRATION OF URANUS
[134] But afterwards she lay with Heaven and bare deep-swirling Oceanus, Coeus and Crius and Hyperion and Iapetus, Theia and Rhea, Themis and Mnemosyne and gold-crowned Phoebe and lovely Tethys. After them was born Cronos the wily, youngest and most terrible of her children, and he hated his lusty sire....
...[912] Also he came to the bed of all-nourishing Demeter, and she bare white-armed Persephone whom Aidoneus carried off from her mother; but wise Zeus gave her to him.
[915] And again, he loved Mnemosyne with the beautiful hair: and of her the nine gold-crowned Muses were born who delight in feasts and the pleasures of song....
from Google AI:
The "hills of Eleuther" are not a well-known myth but likely refer to the location associated with the titaness Mnemosyne (Memory) in Greek mythology. It is said that Zeus had a nine-night union with Mnemosyne in this area, and the result was the birth of the nine Muses, the goddesses of the arts and sciences. The name "Eleuther" itself may be associated with the Arcadian prince Eleuther, though the connection to the hills is primarily through the myth of the Muses' birth.
The myth's setting: Mnemosyne, the personification of Memory, was said to reign over the hills of Eleuther.
The union: Zeus, in the form of a shepherd, spent nine nights with Mnemosyne in this location.
The offspring: The union resulted in the birth of the nine Muses, who are credited with inspiring the arts and sciences.
The name: The name "Eleuther" is also connected to an Arcadian prince, but the myth of the Muses' birth is the primary association with the "hills of Eleuther
ps - Cronos (Time) is responsible for forgettfulness in the myth.
I'm a cerebellum long term memory (muscle memory) kinda guy. Build motor neuron connections is specific sequences, then myelinate (insulate) the proper neuron pathways to make the electric circuit more efficient and mitigate bioelectrical losses. That way the muscle neurons fire in a refine-able sequence that eventually (with practice) makes "bike riding" possible, as the incorrect pathways eventually get trimmed/ lose any myelination (circuit insulation).
Time does the trimming (Cronos forgetfulness).
There was Eru, the One, who in Arda is called Ilúvatar; and he made first the Ainur, the Holy Ones, that were the offspring of his thought, and they were with him before aught else was made. And he spoke to them, propounding to them themes of music; and they sang before him, and he was glad. But for a long while they sang only each alone, or but few together, while the rest hearkened; for each comprehended only that part of the mind of Ilúvatar from which he came, and in the understanding of their brethren they grew but slowly. Yet ever as they listened they came to deeper understanding, and increased in unison and harmony.
And it came to pass that Ilúvatar called together all the Ainur and declared to them a mighty theme, unfolding to them things greater and more wonderful than he had yet revealed; and the glory of its beginning and the splendour of its end amazed the Ainur, so that they bowed before Ilúvatar and were silent.
PS See... it's not that hard to write such shi... ehm, texts. Yawn.
Yes, but in your myth, where does the phrase "Use it or Lose it" fit in?
Use sustains the memory. Time (through disuse) erases the memory.
Freud "obsessions" were loops of trapped psychic energy that couldn't find "release".
Sameness and Repetition vs Deleuzian "Difference and Repetition".
;P
What is time? Repetitive cycles. Repetition. Clock crystal vibrations.
Sameness (thru use) myelinates neural pathways. Difference open a neural circuit up to the possibility of de-myelination (forgetfulness).
Drink of the River Lethe... or give your two obols to Charon for a safe crossing. ;)
Google AI:
Charon is the ferryman of the Greek underworld who transports souls across the River Styx, while Lethe is another river in the underworld whose waters cause forgetfulness. Souls who cross the Styx with Charon might have to drink from Lethe, losing all memory of their previous life before their final journey continues.
Charon
Role: The ferryman who carries the souls of the dead across the River Styx into the underworld.
Payment: Souls needed to pay Charon for passage. This was often done with a coin, called an obolus, placed in their mouth after burial.
Consequences of not paying: Those who could not pay or were not properly buried had to wander the banks of the river for a hundred years before being allowed to cross.
Living travelers: Charon sometimes ferried living heroes to the underworld, but they needed special authorization, such as the Golden Bough, to make the journey.
Lethe
Role: A river in the underworld whose water causes forgetfulness.
Function: Souls who drank from its waters lost all memory of their past lives.
Significance: In some myths, this was a necessary step for those who were to be reincarnated, ensuring they had a clean slate.
Ancient oracle: In one specific oracle of the Greek hero Trophonius, supplicants drank from Lethe to forget their past before they drank from Mnemosyne, the river of memory.
//Yes, but in your myth, where does the phrase "Use it or Lose it" fit in?
Well...
In J.R.R. Tolkien's legendarium, the divine being Melkor did not lose his inherent divinity, but he significantly diminished his personal power and became trapped in a physical form due to his actions of corruption and the dispersion of his essence into the world of Arda.
The Process of Diminishment
Melkor (later named Morgoth by Fëanor) was the mightiest of the Valar, the angelic powers sent to shape the world. His loss of power occurred gradually through several key actions:
PS Well... this AI stuff are pretty useful... for such stuff. I need to admit
//What is time? Repetitive cycles. Repetition. Clock crystal vibrations.
That is not what memorise/repeat is the thing.
Remember -- Time itself exist because of Entropy. Without which it will be infinitely short loops of sameness... well, Nothingness, Dull Infinity of boring repetitions...
And that is Entropy, that created by loose inflatability of Space -- that create Differences.Which open gates for creating memories...
Opiods? Speaking of youself no doubt.
The only time that exists is the present moment. The past is but a memory, and the future is not yet here.
Each new moment carries infinite possibilities. The reification of beliefs, practices, fears, desires, etc causes the paralysis that results in the boring repetitions.
An argument can be made that time is but an illusion. A construct created by humankind to manage relative reality by cutting and chopping life onto units managed by the clock. A useful but stressful tool.
Yap.
As genuine imbecile, you swallowed that hook.))))
"ENDOgenous opioids" that is not drugs. That is substances produced incide our bodies.
Kudo, dumb shit!
))))))
Trapped in Physical form... kinda like Jesus? ;)
I like it..
In a experiment, it's best to only change a single variable, so that the observer (you) can properly attribute cause with effect.... not try and correlate a billion variables (as in a human lifetime0.
Buddhism - A system of reified beliefs, practices, fears, desires, etc.
aka - A "philosophy". A "religion". A practice...
Your complete lack of understanding of Buddhism philosophy and psychology is amusing. But to those who are ignorant vies such as yours will continue to exist. Oh well, no sweat off my brow thinking ir worrying about it.
Like I said, I know enough to know that I needn't learn anymore. Nirvana (the Buddhist Eschaton) won't be realized until the last vestiges of life are ultimately eradicated from Planet Earth.
What "understanding"???))))
Ordinary "first, you need to believe" religious BS.))))))
SAME as in so disloved by you Xianity.))))
And you behavior (tryes to proselite) are so THE SAME.)))))
IT'S just like "if I stomped into shit, let other stomp it TOO.))))))
"The more, the merrier"©™
Do you really think you are first shi... oh, I mean -- believer, on the road. So you are something new? And nobody know about your shitty behavior???)))))
//In a experiment, it's best to only change a single variable, so that the observer (you) can properly attribute cause with effect.... not try and correlate a billion variables (as in a human lifetime0.
That's just because our tools are so fleamsy... even today.
But computer-aided experimenting will be free from such a limitation.. ;-)
Or... Light-Giver. ;-p
Just Physics... yawn.
Hah... it only came to me... that Lutcifer/Devil... that is, figure of Prometheus. %-P
So what do you think of "Prometheus Bound" by Aeschylus. How does Prometheus "escape" the punishment of Zeus after being bound by Kratos and Bias? By deception (technology), of course! An "idle mind" (Prometheus bound) is "the Devil's workshop". ;)
touche!
Has the eagle eaten your liver today?
Google AI:
In the ancient theory of the four humors, the liver was associated with blood, one of the four bodily fluids thought to determine health and temperament. An excess or imbalance of blood, which was considered hot and moist, was believed to be linked to the "sanguine" temperament, characterized as courageous, hopeful, and sociable.
Google AI:
Galen's four humors are blood, phlegm, yellow bile, and black bile, which he believed must be in balance for good health. An excess or deficiency of one humor could lead to illness and was thought to influence a person's temperament, with each humor corresponding to a personality type (sanguine, phlegmatic, choleric, and melancholic).
Yes, I'm a "Galenic" philosopher (Meden Agan)!
Google AI:
Percy Bysshe Shelley's Prometheus Unbound is a four-act lyrical drama (closet drama, meant to be read rather than performed) that reimagines the Greek myth, focusing on the overthrow of tyranny, the liberation of humanity through love and knowledge, and the dawning of a utopian age.
Act-by-Act Summary
Act I: The play opens in the Indian Caucasus, where the Titan Prometheus is eternally bound to a rock as punishment by the tyrant Jupiter (Zeus) for giving fire and knowledge to humanity. Despite suffering immense torture (an eagle eats his regenerating liver daily), Prometheus remains defiant. He expresses regret for a curse he once laid upon Jupiter and asks for it to be repeated by the Phantasm of Jupiter so he can retract it, a sign of his moral superiority and capacity for forgiveness. Mercury and the Furies attempt to persuade or force him to reveal a secret (the identity of the mother of the son who is fated to overthrow Jupiter), but Prometheus refuses, enduring the pain with steadfast resolve.
Act II: Prometheus's lover, the Oceanid Asia, and her sister Panthea are guided by echoes and spirits to the cave of Demogorgon, a primal and shapeless spirit of the underworld who represents the power of necessity or the unconscious. Asia questions Demogorgon about the creator of the world and the timing of Prometheus's liberation. Demogorgon states that "eternal Love" is the only thing not subject to "Fate, Time, Occasion, Chance and Change". As Asia interacts with Demogorgon, she is transformed by the power of love and beauty, foreshadowing the coming paradise. They ascend in a chariot of the Hours, representing the arrival of a new era.
Act III: In Heaven, Jupiter boasts of his power to the other gods, unaware that his downfall is imminent. He believes his child with Thetis, whom he expects to be more powerful than himself, will secure his reign. Instead, Demogorgon, representing Eternity, arrives and drags the terrified Jupiter down into the abyss, ending his tyrannical rule. On Earth, the hero Hercules unbinds Prometheus. Prometheus is reunited with Asia, and they plan to live in a beautiful, secluded cave. The Spirit of the Hour is sent to announce the news of freedom to all humankind. A profound transformation of the Earth and humanity begins; war, fear, and social hierarchy vanish, replaced by love, wisdom, and self-governance.
Act IV: The final act depicts the universal joy and harmony that follow Jupiter's fall. The Earth and the Moon sing of their newfound bliss and the liberation of all life. Spirits of the human mind celebrate the triumph of love and knowledge over evil and suffering. The play ends with Demogorgon's powerful final speech, which delivers Shelley's core message: true victory lies in "Gentleness, Virtue, Wisdom, and Endurance," as well as the capacity to "love, and bear; to hope till Hope creates / From its own wreck the thing it contemplates; / Neither to change, nor falter, nor repent".
Shelley's work ultimately champions free will and moral excellence, presenting an optimistic vision of humanity achieving a state of self-governance and harmony, free from external (tyrannical) authority.
I prefer Aeschylus' original... I'm no progressive (or Christian) believer in the eschatological power of Love.
I'm not so sure it can calculate each correlations to a five sigma certainty.... the data entered is likely filled with errors.
That's about "data" from such flimsy creatures as humans... yawn.
//I'm no progressive (or Christian) believer in the eschatological power of Love.
Like *I* am...
//So what do you think of "Prometheus Bound" by Aeschylus. How does Prometheus "escape" the punishment of Zeus after being bound by Kratos and Bias? By deception (technology), of course! An "idle mind" (Prometheus bound) is "the Devil's workshop". ;)
Whatever.
That's just words... yawn.
//By deception (technology), of course!
Tech tells no lies. Only people do. Yawn.
Tech does precede the Laws, though. It introduces an element of unpredictability into human societies (The gods must be crazy).
Naaah. That's industry. Not tech.
Social "engineering", not technological.
Yawn.
Accuracy of instrumentation errors...
Static/ Noise
Tech doesn't fall from the sky.
...yet. ;-p
Was it too narrow? ;-)
This allusion to"seeds to other stars"that really, by design, should fall from the skies.
Do you not like it?
Whatever you'd say. Receive a smack from Bruce Lee, again!
Statistics. Yawn.
Why does each new NASA Instrument seek to achieve an order of magnitude increase in performance. Yeah, statistics, yawn!
...and at what point would that falling tech become "industry". At what point does a cell become a body? At reproduction level? Comm level? Returns the smack...
btw - RNA and amino acids literally do fall from the sky. But you need "industry" to process and assemble them into "consciousness" capable organizations.
Tech isn't worth sh*t without a use (functional/ dysfunctional)... is it?
//Tech isn't worth sh*t without a use (functional/ dysfunctional)... is it?
That is question OUTSIDE of realm of Technology itself.
Technology (Lem's definition) it's a realm of setting (technological) goals and defining tasks, as well as resolving that tasks...
That's why he was able to use such his technological approach for analysing of Evolution.
Because, Evolution LACKS agency, have no clues, no desired outcomes... and as such -- NO delusions, stemming from that fact, that sentient beings live inside their delusions and prone to have UNREALISTIC desires and IDIOTICLY-DELUSIONAL ideas about how to fullfill thar useless desires (like, for example, to became rich through giving sacrifices to a "Devil" and performing "black mesas%-)))))))
...like idea of launching rocket to the Mars. Or tech seeds to other stars. :-p
//btw - RNA and amino acids literally do fall from the sky. But you need "industry" to process and assemble them into "consciousness" capable organizations.
Yawn.
Whatever.
Ergodic hyphotesis.
The ergodic hypothesis is a fundamental principle in statistical mechanics that states that the time average of a system's properties over a long period is equal to the average of those properties over all possible microstates (ensemble average). This means that a single, long-term observation of a system is equivalent to observing a large number of identical systems at one instant. It allows scientists to calculate thermodynamic properties by averaging over a theoretical ensemble of states instead of tracking a single system through all its complex dynamics.
Key aspects of the ergodic hypothesis
Time average vs. ensemble average: The hypothesis connects two different ways of averaging. Imagine a pot of oatmeal:
Time average: You stir the oatmeal for a very long time and take a spoonful to measure its temperature. The average temperature you get is the time average.
Ensemble average: You make a huge number of identical pots of oatmeal, and at one moment, you take a spoonful from each pot. The average temperature of all these spoonfuls is the ensemble average.
Equivalence: The ergodic hypothesis suggests that if you wait long enough, the time average will be equal to the ensemble average.
Accessibility of microstates: For this to work, the system must be able to eventually visit all accessible microstates with the same energy. The time spent in each region of the phase space (a space that describes all possible states of a system) is proportional to the volume of that region.
Significance: This principle provides a foundation for statistical mechanics and thermodynamics, as it provides a way to calculate macroscopic properties of a system from the statistical behavior of its microscopic components.
Analogy for understanding
Think of a drop of food coloring in a glass of water.
Initially, the food coloring is in a small region.
As the water moves over a long time, the color spreads out and mixes evenly throughout the entire glass.
If the process is ergodic, a single drop of food coloring will eventually occupy every possible position in the water, just as if you had a large number of separate drops distributed throughout the water at one time.
//...and at what point would that falling tech become "industry". At what point does a cell become a body? At reproduction level? Comm level? Returns the smack...
Dodged. ;-p
When it becomes industry... it stops being technological task.
It's like in Marxism. Stoopid Marx was not technologist -- so he was not able to predict that mere increase in tools production, automatisation of production process WILL make manual labour LESS and LESS needed and important.
Yawn.
Naaah. He stupidly declared that ther ALWAYS will be workers... and they ALWAYS will be robbed off their precious juices... "needed to perform any work".
Another word, he was not able to predict programmers. ;-)
//Why does each new NASA Instrument seek to achieve an order of magnitude increase in performance. Yeah, statistics, yawn!
Yawn.
Basic industrial dichotomy --
AI Overview
An economy can grow in two primary ways: extensive growth and intensive growth. While extensive growth relies on increasing the quantity of inputs, intensive growth is driven by improving the productivity of those inputs and is generally considered more sustainable for long-term development.
NASA freakingly cannot do that extensive way (because they stupid to devise ideas like mine?) -- with launching more and more... eh, instruments.
Though... it would DECREASE price of it greatly(serial production of Hubbles would be much cheaper, isn't it?).
And would allow to perform tasks IMPOSSIBLE fore that "increase in performance" junk.(like what surface astronomers do, with uniting their telescopes into one system.
Or... what Elon Musk do, with his Starlinks.
Strength in Numbers!
No purpose, just for the fun of it... @@
;p
Technology... do not sets goals, only finding ways how to achieve em.
What's so hard to understand here?
Like, builders do build homes... but not to live in em themself.
And that is usual. And natural. And nobody cares to point their fingers at em.
So? Why technologists should be different???
Spoken like a true politician...
Yep. Separation of concerns -- that's what politicians SHOULD be doing...
As well as any other people who tackling with COMPLEXITY.
Yawn.
Naaah. Politicians (like technologists) seldom deliver on their promises. So what they actually do is find other people to blame (scapegoat) for the fact that their promises were never materialized.
Conservative, n: A statesman who is enamored of existing evils, as distinguished from the Liberal who wishes to replace them with others.
- Ambrose Bierce
I'm a conservative, and you're fundamentally a liberal who wishes to replace out current technologies with others.
There is no technological eschaton. People will ALWAYS be assholes who envy other people's "stuff" (mimetic desire) and need to find scapegoats for their failures.
Ah, the Technological Singularity... Tech's promised progressive "Eschaton".
Naaah. Anti-fragile (distributed) versus fragile (centralized) approaches. The Tower of Babble is collapsing under the weight of its' "assembly" (assembly theory). Musk has a rocket assembly line and uses the excess lifting capacity of rockets paid for by others to give his Starlinks a free ride into orbit.
Yes, strength in numbers. Selecting which components from all the diverse options produced by the numbers... that requires intelligence".... "Intelligence is a fixed goal with variable means of achieving it" - William James
You already know my opinion. That TS is BS.
Yawn.
But still trying to spin it.
What for? %-))
//Naaah. Politicians (like technologists) seldom deliver on their promises
Kghm? And where you saw technologists giving some promices?
//So what they actually do is find other people to blame (scapegoat) for the fact that their promises were never materialized.
And whom *I* scapegoated???%-))))
//Conservative, n: A statesman who is enamored of existing evils, as distinguished from the Liberal who wishes to replace them with others.
- Ambrose Bierce
Have it not came to you... YET.
That only true Conservatives today -- Democrats.
Because THEY want it to stay as it is... all that WOKE, all that DEI and all that other words you dislike so much.
And you are that Liberal reformer, who want CHANGES. ;-p
//I'm a conservative, and you're fundamentally a liberal
Naaah. I'm technologist. ;-p
Means... in a nutshell, like that The Architect of Matrix. ;-p
Know how to make living Paradise. Or Hell. Just by a whim.
//who wishes to replace out current technologies with others.
Why I need to *WISH* something, that was happening, continue happening and WILL be continuing to happen... without any interference from my side???))))))
//There is no technological eschaton.
Of course. Because techs are AGNOSTIC... toward desires.
They working only with what WORKS... not flimsy opioid dreams. ;-p
//People will ALWAYS be assholes who envy other people's "stuff" (mimetic desire) and need to find scapegoats for their failures.
Yep. And there is a reason(s) why it so.
And it called Evolution -- technological solution of how to make self-reproducing homeostatic entities... that would not die suicidally, because of some flimsy delusional ethical reasons. (like your beloved Lessing's som ;-p
//Naaah. Anti-fragile (distributed) versus fragile (centralized) approaches
Yawn.
Why naaahing, if that is what I have said.
Yaaaawn
AI isn't a promise?
$$$
anti-fragility is the reason "why" its. "more sustainable".
Us stupid-heads who haven't adopted your approach...who fail to grasp its' brilliance or its' inevitability (which is the largest road block to adoption - inevitability argument).
Yes, woke is an extension of the problem of progressive liberalism (an excess of liberalism becomes libertinism). Mine is a reactionary liberalism that seeks a return to what might be called a meden agan amount of liberalism (classical liberalism). And technology cannot solve that argument. Only education and understanding can. And that, I'm afraid, requires "tragedy" to teach the lesson required.
Than produce your blueprints, architect. Cuz no one will understand (or follow) the Architect's plan without his "whim" being put down on paper.... with a lot of "construction/ assembly" details in the Notes.
Yes, there are plans for fragile and largely unaffordable Towers of Babel everywhere.... where's the anti-fragile one?
Already "promised". ;-P
Tech of Lem. ;-)
And where's Evolution blueprints? ;-p
And what works most "profitably" is vertical integration within a single organizational structure not horizontal distribution and organizational decentralization. In other words, centralized control and decision making, not rhizomic schizoid re-patterning
//Mine is a reactionary
At least you able to admit.
That makes you non-idiot.
Kudos!
But. You know what's the core problem with being non-idiot? ;-)
It makes you UNable to redirect, through off responsibilities and answers to a questions... at some ody else. ;-p
What dis you think of Stuart Hameroff's rip-off of Freud's "pleasure principle" motive? The ethics of pleasure (eros) vs ethics of thanatos (death drive)?
Marcuse "Eros and Civilization" and "One-Dimensional Man"?
//And technology cannot solve that argument.
ONLY technology can solve it.
AKA
The phrase "similar cure similar" refers to the core principle of homeopathy, a system of alternative medicine. This principle is expressed by the Latin phrase similia similibus curentur, which translates to "like cures like".
The Principle of Homeopathy
According to this doctrine, a substance that causes specific symptoms in a healthy person can, when administered in minute (highly diluted) doses, treat a sick person exhibiting similar symptoms.
Key aspects of this principle include:
Origin: The concept has ancient roots, with mentions by Hippocrates, but it was systematically developed into a healing method by Samuel Hahnemann in the late 18th century.
Mechanism (claimed): The idea is that the highly diluted substance stimulates the body's own vital reaction or healing response to the disease, rather than counteracting the symptoms directly.
Hameroff's is a low energy state trapped in a time crystal.
"Knowing general principles spares from need to remember lots of facts"
Yawn.;-p
Sometimes -- yes. Sometimes -- no.
Too much credit.
I am not Demiurge.
Yawn. ;-P
BS propaganda. Of "those who know better". Yawn.
"Because... it have e-le-c-tro-lites"©
Of technologist??? %-)))
Sounds like the problem of mRNA gene therapies. It fight's Covid, but also forces the Immune system to attack and kill the antigen stimulating spike protein cells (or something like that). In other words, it permanently messes with the T cell immune system response
From me??? %-)))
Then, only way it possible -- if you'd give me $$$. ;-p
So I could give em back.
'Cause I have none.
The problem with implementing innovative technologies is that not all effects are recognized until its' too late to go back to baseline.
Whatever
//The problem with implementing innovative technologies is that not all effects are recognized until its' too late to go back to baseline.
AKA Law of Unpredictable Consequences
Yawn.
Unpredictable.... Beause we desire NOT to became smarter
The quote you are looking for, which states that everyone complains about memory but no one complains about judgment, is attributed to François de La Rochefoucauld, not Michel Foucault.
The exact maxim is:
"Everyone complains of his memory, and no one complains of his judgment."
This quote appears in La Rochefoucauld's work, Réflexions, Ou Sentences Et Maximes Morale, first published in 1665. La Rochefoucauld was a 17th-century French writer and moralist known for his cynical and insightful aphorisms about human nature, self-love, and virtue.
Oh, AI seems like becomes phylosoper
The idea that a person can have a bad memory but not bad judgment is complex because memory and judgment are often intertwined, but they are distinct cognitive functions.
The Relationship Between Memory and Judgment
Memory Fallibility: Human memory is highly fallible and prone to distortions. It is influenced by our existing beliefs, emotions, and subsequent information. This means that the details we recall about a past event may not be objectively accurate.
Judgment's Reliance on Memory: Sound judgment often requires access to complete and accurate facts and past experiences. A bad memory can certainly impact the quality of one's judgment if critical information is missing or misremembered.
Cognitive Biases: People are often unaware of their own cognitive biases, which can lead to poor judgment even if they feel confident in their ability to assess a situation. For example, a person might misattribute negative statements to a negative individual because of pre-existing bias, affecting their memory and subsequent judgment.
The Distinction Between the Two
Despite the overlap, a person could potentially have a poor memory for details (e.g., forgetting names or dates) but still possess strong analytical skills and wisdom, allowing them to make sound decisions in the moment based on the information available to them at the time.
"Good" Judgment is a Skill: The ability to "discern wisely" or make a "considered decision" is the definition of good judgment. It involves evaluating situations, connecting to one's honest reactions, and problem-solving, rather than simply recalling a perfect record of facts.
Judgment in a Courtroom Context: In a legal context, a juror is tasked with judging evidence to determine guilt. This type of judgment is based on the presented facts and legal standards, not necessarily the juror's personal memory of past, unrelated events.
Automatic vs. Considered Judgment: Many of our daily judgments are automatic responses to perception, helping us navigate life safely. A person might struggle with the specific recall of past events (bad memory) but still make effective real-time judgments in new situations.
In essence, while a complete and accurate memory is a valuable tool for judgment, the ability to reason and evaluate information effectively (good judgment) is a separate skill that may function independently of the occasional failure to recall specific, objective details.
Quotes by François de La Rochefoucauld (Author of Maxims)
Goodreads
https://www.goodreads.com › author › quotes › 74289...
569 quotes from François de La Rochefoucauld: 'No persons are more frequently wrong, than those who will not admit they are wrong
And you making me VERY frequently wrong... with not giving me even slightest chance to admit being wrong...
with repeating same arguments, again and again.
Then who? It didn't just drop from the sky...
...like "evo-devo-lution"
:P
I don't have any either. But I'm not spinning the AI TS, either. All my intelligence comes "naturally".
Nope. you're worse, a Gnostic.
So either become a ""Producer" or this movie ain't getting made.
Tennyson's Tiresias. Or Vigil's Cassandra.
I'm not a paleontologist, I'm a Paleconservative, so don't ask me.
And who's reading Lem anymore? He was largely hated and ignored in the West.
Google AI:
Stanisław Lem didn't hate science fiction itself, but he strongly disliked and criticized what he saw as a vast amount of "bad" or "kitsch" American and Western science fiction, especially works that focused on shallow adventure stories or wish fulfillment instead of philosophical ideas. He also famously disliked both film adaptations of his novel Solaris, criticizing them for being too emotional and not focusing on the philosophical themes he intended.
Lem's criticism of the genre
Focus on philosophical ideas: Lem believed most science fiction, particularly in the West, was not intellectually rewarding and missed opportunities to explore deep philosophical questions. He mocked "pirates of the thirtieth century" and stories that were merely historical fiction set in the future.
"Kitsch" and "bad writing": He famously denigrated much of the American science fiction he encountered, calling it "kitsch" with "wooden dialogue".
Dislike of film adaptations: He despised Andrei Tarkovsky's 1972 film adaptation of Solaris, feeling it focused too much on a love story and not the philosophical themes of the book. He also disliked the 2002 remake by Steven Soderbergh for similar reasons, though he apparently enjoyed it more than the first.
Expulsion from SFWA: His harsh criticism of many of his contemporaries led to him being expelled from the Science Fiction and Fantasy Writers of America (SFWA) after he was offered honorary membership.
What he didn't hate
Hard science fiction: He was a major proponent of hard science fiction, which is often based on scientific principles and a rigorous exploration of scientific and philosophical concepts.
SFWA expulsion: The expulsion was a culmination of his critical stance and a reflection of his disdain for many of the genre's practitioners, not a rejection of the genre as a whole.
Like computer software? All Bill Gates does is let people popularize an APP product before vertically integrating it into its' Windows OS. Even the original DOS OS was a DITMCO buy-out. And he's still charging "rent" for it from customers today..
...and late-capitalism demands vertical integration into monopolies. which is why technofeudalism is making such a HUGE comeback.
Yes, the facts get "bent" around them for "proper interpretation". @@
What is the cause of your trauma, sufferer of a late capitalist monopolistic economy? Racist white men, of course! It's not the freakin' economy, really? We pay the Professional Managerial Class a huge surplus salary to sell this story to workers thru DEI and ESG, so don't go saying anything differently (or you'll never be able to work again)
Now open the borders so we can replace you for a nickel on the dollar in salary.
I'm a butterfly, not a catepillar. So Kant-Critique me.
Immanuel Kant's three critiques are monumental works of philosophy: the Critique of Pure Reason, which examines the limits of human knowledge and metaphysics; the Critique of Practical Reason, which focuses on morality and ethics; and the Critique of Judgment, which explores aesthetics and teleology.
Together, they provide a comprehensive system for understanding knowledge, morality, and our capacity for judgment.
1. Critique of Pure Reason
Focus: Explores the limits and scope of human knowledge, arguing that our minds structure reality.
Key Ideas: Differentiates between synthetic a priori judgments and analytic a posteriori judgments, and argues that the human mind isn't a passive recipient but actively shapes the world we experience.
Influence: Considered a cornerstone of modern philosophy and a turning point in the history of metaphysics and epistemology.
2. Critique of Practical Reason
Focus: Examines morality, free will, and the conditions for rational action.
Key Ideas: Argues that we are responsible for our actions only if we act freely and rationally. Introduces the concept of the categorical imperative, a universal moral law that dictates we should act only according to maxims that we can will to become a universal law.
Influence: Provides the foundation for deontological ethics by arguing that duty, not happiness, is the basis for moral action.
3. Critique of Judgment
Focus: Bridges the gap between the theoretical (pure reason) and the practical (moral reason) by examining aesthetic judgments and our perception of purpose in nature.
Key Ideas: Analyzes the sublime and the beautiful, and explores the concept of "purposiveness" in nature, which is the idea that the natural world appears to have an intelligent design or purpose, even though we cannot prove it theoretically. Also develops the theory of "genius" in art, defining it as a natural and innate talent that gives rules to art.
Influence: Connects the realms of nature and freedom through the faculty of judgment, and has significantly influenced subsequent philosophy of art and aesthetics.
I have no doubt that I am frequently wrong. Is there a "right" way to accumulate a "system of objects" with which to decorate a room? That would depend upon your "aesthetic" judgement.
So is there a right way to accumulate a "system of philosophical concepts"? I only have my own aesthetic judgement upon which to rely.
As the arabs say, "There is an ancient Sufi parable about coffee: "He who tastes, knows; he who tastes not, knows not."
I have many tastes, many incommensurable and offensive.
I therefore often mix the sacred with the profane.
Like a Serrano Photograph
//And you making me VERY frequently wrong... with not giving me even slightest chance to admit being wrong...
with repeating same arguments, again and again.
November 24, 2025 at 3:16 PM
-FJ the Dangerous and Extreme MAGA Jew
I have no doubt that I am frequently wrong.
Naaah. ;-)
My joke here was that YOU, making me "wrong"... with not giving me a y chance to admit my wrongs. ;-p
//So is there a right way to accumulate a "system of philosophical concepts"?
Depend on -- are you packer... or you are mapper. Yawn.
Mappers Vs Packers
C2 wiki
https://wiki.c2.com › MappersVsPackers
Mappers are the world's great thinkers: they are the inventors, the scientists, those who think and control. Packing is like mapping in that you collect ...
People also ask
What is the difference between a packer and a mapper?
Packing is like mapping in that you collect information, but differs from mapping in that you don't have any particular desire to simplify your mental map. Packers are the world's great storehouses of memory: they are the storytellers, the historians, those who memorize and repeat.
And as you can witness -- I am mapper.
Means -- I do my "packing" (collecting and arranging by relevance information) for the sake of finding way to move on.
And you... for the sake of delight of it.
And there is NO ethical or any moral lesson in it. That one is wrong and other right. Thats just technical difference.
Like, there is ones who throw garbage and ones who do cleaning.
That there is passengers... and those who drive that bus.
Or??? You can propose some moral judgment here??? %-)))
It all are part of our modern technological mind.
Same way as we have reptile parts in our brain... which made our late-late ancestors to sniff a smell of blood in the are, to find some juicy fresh rotting corps... and now we use it to find closest Starbucks. ;-p
Means... we are not reptiles any more. And reptile's way of using it is... grossly outdated.
//Yes, the facts get "bent" around them for "proper interpretation". @@
Yeah. That is what distinguishing True Wisdom from Phony one.
True Wisdom (like knowing Newtons Laws) gives you nothing. Demands nothing from you. It just AS IS. It JUST WORKS. No matter what.
While Phony one... depend on numbers of followers and how eager they are to promote their "Holy Truth".
Yawn.
Another word. If you'll here "to understand our Truth... you need to belive first". Or... in continuation or separately "if you'll believe in Our Holy Truth... you'll recieve multitude of gifts and freebies.".
That is just an adverising.
Yawn.
And you know that, that there is no Truth in advertising.
Yep.
That's what "those who know better" would like it to be.))))
But you know. They are stupid)))
Like that one who sold his Bwando... to rain at crops. From "Idiocracy".
Yap.
Influencers? Some self-proclaimed wise? Was twisted and torn out of context by some dumbass journalists???
Idiots. Yawn. Name to em.... Legion!)))))
There's no one. That was rethorical.
Yawn.
Yet one time you disallow me to admit my wrongs...
And who of us immortal?
Not I for sure...
So, why you burden me with responsibility for it???
Never asked. And even outrightly shrugged off -- I was exploring that concept for a long time (like from very Drexlers words) and found that nobody know they talking about.
Same with Transhumanism.
Same with Sustainability.
Same with... do I need to carry on this list?
So, after such an exploration (mapping) I came to that my understanding -- that it all phony.
Pseudo-notions that usefull only to "those who know better" -- those who have, or think they have (like politicians) power. And trying to PROLONG that state.
That's why that CORE idea inside all that notions -- "you need not to do anything, you need not to change anything... progress, and happiness ever after, will happen by I s lf".
SAME.... as it was in religion. SAME... as it was with "secular" religion in USSR. And that chimes far too well known to me and far too booooring.
Yawn.
Do you know how to cook rich flavour soup... without multitude of ingredients???
From pure water alone?
I do what I know and CAN -- boiling water. :-p
With hope that when ingredients arrive, it'll speed up process. A little.
And you can call me fool all you want. That's just AS IS. As it is. How IT WORKS. For me. Here and now.
Sigh.((((
Yap. If you know how it works. If you *KNOW* the technology of it.
You can devise a plan of what to do with it.
Otherwise... you can only burn incense with hope "gods" will like their smell and fulfill your wishes.)))))))
“It is easier to be wise for others than for ourselves.”
― Francois De La Rochefoucauld
“We are so accustomed to disguise ourselves to others, that in the end, we become disguised to ourselves.”
― François de La Rochefoucauld
“We promise according to our hopes and perform according to our fears.”
― François de La Rochefoucauld
“The height of cleverness is to be able to conceal it.”
― Francois de La Rochefoucauld
“Hypocrisy is a tribute that vice pays to virtue.”
― Francois Duc De La Rochefoucauld, Reflections or Sentences and Moral Maxims
“Few people have the wisdom to prefer the criticism that would do them good, to the praise that deceives them.”
― François de La Rochefoucauld
And... my long last favourite...
“Hypocrisy is a tribute that vice pays to virtue.”
― Francois Duc De La Rochefoucauld, Reflections or Sentences and Moral Maxims
PS And... like, directed at you
“When we are unable to find tranquility within ourselves, it is useless to seek it elsewhere.”
― François de La Rochefoucauld
PPS And... to our discussion here.
“Thinkers think and doers do. But until the thinkers do and the doers think, progress will be just another word in the already overburdened vocabulary by sense.”
― Francois de La Rochefoucauld
Mappers Vs Packers
Mapping is the kind of learning you do when, after you pick up some information, you sit and think about it in an effort to simplify the way you think about it (i.e., simplify your mental map). Mappers are the world's great thinkers: they are the inventors, the scientists, those who think and control.
Packing is like mapping in that you collect information, but differs from mapping in that you don't have any particular desire to simplify your mental map. Packers are the world's great storehouses of memory: they are the storytellers, the historians, those who memorize and repeat.
Circumstances decide whether mappers and packers mesh efficiently or grind each other away. They can work together to produce greater civilization, or they can clash and tear civilization apart.
https://wiki.c2.com/?MappersVsPackers
The Mapper/Packer Communication Barrier
#
programmersstone
#
reciprocality
It's worth reiterating some key points here:
Mapping and packing are very different strategies
Packing is the strongly enforced social norm
The world is set up for packers
Business language is packer language
The results of mapping are called `common sense'
Common sense isn't so common
Mappers think packers are cynical or lazy
Packers think mappers are irrational
Packers spend much of their time playing politics
The last thing that counts in politics is Reason
Mappers are often wrong about packer psychology
Packers are usually right about packer psychology
Mappers are often wrong about mapper psychology
Packers are always wrong about mapper psychology.
Mappers do not have a culture to guide them
Most mappers teach themselves, like Mowgli
Mappers can teach themselves!
Mappers can learn from others
Mappers often face significant social challenges
Mappers currently rarely fulfil their potential
Once a situation is understood, it can be addressed
//Mapping and packing are very different strategies
Packing is the strongly enforced social norm
The world is set up for packers
Business language is packer language
Sounds familiar, isn't it? ;-)
//The results of mapping are called `common sense'
Common sense isn't so common
Yep.
I do appeal to your common sense... and even though you alone and exposed to it for a long time... I still failing to find even incling of... "commonness"? :-(((
//Mappers think packers are cynical or lazy
Well... I do not to think that way... that is like how you proclaim yourself, aren't it's true? ;-)
//Packers think mappers are irrational
Packers spend much of their time playing politics
Ain't it's true too???
You trying to point at my irrationality (like, not asking angel investors or whatever) all of the time.
//Packers are always wrong about mapper psychology.
Mappers do not have a culture to guide them
Yap. Looks like bull's eye. Too.
You trying to "pack-in" me. Associate me with some culture. Being that Ukrainians. Or DEMNfolk. Or... politicians. %-P
Or Lem's-only follower.
Or... etc.
But I am...
Most mappers teach themselves, like Mowgli
Mappers can teach themselves!
Mappers can learn from others
//Mappers often face significant social challenges
Mappers currently rarely fulfil their potential
Yep. That's reason of awkwardness of my position.
My position... is from 60th starry eyes thinking. Greatly improved and refreshed.
But in our modern cynical postmodern world -- greatly OUTDATED.
And do I not know it?
//Once a situation is understood, it can be addressed
Yap. That's my only hope.
Also.
Relationship to HedgehogAndFox
Having not read the Hedgehog and Fox book, but based on the description of it here (i.e. I'm on a limb here, folks), here I try to contrast and compare:
Hedgehogs build a single GrandConcept, and try to use it to explain everything. i.e. "History is a conflict between capital and labor."
Foxes create facts - "Foxes think it's perfectly reasonable to spend one's life lovingly describing new species of beetles."
Mappers consume facts, trying to build a more accurate map of the world in their heads, refactoring out the bits that prove to be incorrect. Coherency of the model is very important to them.
Packers collect facts, and do lots of pattern matching in their application. They value coherency in application.
So, the ideas are similar, but not equivalent, from my initial read of it.
The industry did little to discourage the speculation. They needed speculators $$$.
Drexler's Grey Goo...
Part 1
The Technologist vs Part 2 Unintended Consequences, vs Part 3 Consequnces multiplied and resolved
I remember once in the labs hearing of rivets made from a very strong material being used to attach an airplane wing, but were designed to dissolve if they ever got wet. - Camilo Cienfuegos? They blaamed Fidel...
So make a recipe and tell everybody how tasty the soup will be, if others provide the ingredients...
Evolution is... and yet it couldn't come up with the recipe, either.
Then confess your wrongs... as none will be forgiven, there's probably no point in doing it.
Kitsch... that describes us alright. I always think of Germans as the "serious" philosophers and SciFi appreciators. But when Lem spoke of kitsch, that was his criticism of them, too. We have no "high culture". Only "kitsch" populism. :(
...and tore down nuclear plants to put up windmills...
Sure there is... 'half' truths...
There's never a "going back"... only going forward thru the messes made. The beta test version always gets adopted and released (its not a test, its' marketing)
According to Freud, that's what made us human. We lost the "stereo" component of our sense of smell/ direction location in the pre-frontal cortex to a higher order "planning" function. We smell the stinky and sweet, but cant tell where it's coming from..
Confession may be great for the soul, but I don't really think that G_d gives a f*ck.
Okay, maybe just a little... ;)
What does the brain do? For (almost) every "sense" it makes a map in 3D Space. Hearing queues vision. That's what they're for... mapping. Packing? That's just memory formation for "mapping" the future (projecting from the past). That's what giving up "smell" mapping added to humanity... future mapping. Repurposed mapping. An expansion of Temporality.
...and books made us Cyborgs.
A Cookbook... ;p
btw - You were right. Humans ARE the grey goo.
There's "Oedipal" mapping (systemic/ ordered/ philosophy) and "Schizoid" mapping (systemic/ disordered/ anti-philosophy). Nope. Not a "moral" judgement. I don't care if Oedipus kills his father and sleeps with his mother. I just care if it wasn't the reverse (killed his mother and slept with his father).
Whatever.
You cannot create a tech on that base (but, technology can enforce it).
Yawn.
Yep.
You are packer.
Right away you trying to place us in boxes. "Cyborgs". "Gray Goo". "Whatever".
Even though words are just meaningless labels.
Yawn.
Misplaced comment?
Yawn. Whatever.
As mapper I inclined to care more about what WILL BE with us humans. And what we was...
Well. You understand it.
But what you propose? Stop all R&D????%-))))
Well, even if it could happen with West. What about China? Africa? South America? Russia?
Do you think THEY could stop? Decide to NOT even scores with you???)))
And why it should???
And what I was doing here?
Naaah.
"Vice paying tribute to a virtue".
Yawn.
Well... nukelar plants controlled by Bwando manager... I would give it to Homer Simpson. For at least, he looks... competent?;-P
Tch-tch-tch.
Negative feedback loop. ;-)
Yawn.
Animism.
...call me a traditionalist (not a moralist). tradition precedes morality? There's a quote in Medea about tradition being the heart of justice. I can't find it. :(
:0
Keep chew the cud, you motley cows! Ahhhh, to have 7 stomachs...
Ya gotta pack to map...
Digestion can be an awfully slow process...
???
And technology/evolution precedes tradition. ;-)
Yep. That too.
No, they're not. Isaiah Berlin thought that the Hedgehog knew one big thing (and packed it all into one big map-philosophy), and the Fox knew many little things (and the fact that there were many philosophies useful in pursuing/ optimizing different goods... often incommensurable (and therefore disharmonious) goods).
In other words... classical physics... quantum physics... which model works best for your problem... not a grand unified theory of everything (although that would be nice).
Coherency of the model... singular model. You seek a grand unified theory for understanding the Universe, I simply seek to understand the many cultural models for optimizing alternate, often incommensurable (wars) goods.
...because there is no rationality to connect them other than to discern the different/ distinct goods of both being sought in each, and noting their difference (Difference and Repetition). Neither appears "rational" to the other if observed from within. Only an outside observer of both can see that they're both rational, but pursuing different ends. Immanence v. transcendence. Architect vs Analyst (University Discourse vs Analyst Discourse:: Master Discourse vs. Hysteric Discourse)
//You seek a grand unified theory for understanding the Universe, I simply seek to understand the many cultural models for optimizing alternate, often incommensurable (wars) goods.
I??? %-))))
Lacan has a formula for translating...
Lacan's four discourses are represented by a formula using four variables:
\(S1\) (master signifier),
\(S2\) (knowledge),
\(\$\) (divided subject), and
\(a\) (object petit a).
These variables are arranged in a diagram with four positions: agent, other, product, and truth. The formula is a dynamic model that generates four different discourses by rotating the variables within the structure
The doers, vs the thinkers agent, other, product, and truth...
The four variables
\(S1\) (Master Signifier): An authoritative term that imposes meaning, like a command.
\(S2\) (Knowledge): An organized body of signifiers or knowledge that is subjected to the master.
\(\$\) (Divided Subject): The subject of the unconscious, split between what is said and what is not.
\(a\) (Object petit a): The object-cause of desire, or that which is lost but always sought after.
The four positions
Agent: The one who initiates discourse.
Other: The recipient of the agent's address.
Product: The output or result of the discourse.
Truth: The underlying, often hidden, truth of the discourse.
The four discourses The formula generates four different discourses by arranging these variables in a specific, rotating order within the positions.
Discourse of the Master: \(S1\) → \(S2\) / \(\$\) → \(a\)
The master signifier (\(S1\)) acts as the agent, addressing knowledge (\(S2\)), which produces the object of desire (\(a\)), while the truth is the divided subject (\(\$\)).
Discourse of the University: \(S2\) → \(a\) / \(S1\) → \(\$\)
Knowledge (\(S2\)) acts as the agent, addressing the object of desire (\(a\)), which produces the divided subject (\(\$\)), while the truth is the master signifier (\(S1\)).
Discourse of the Hysteric: \(\$\) → \(a\) / \(S2\) → \(S1\)
The divided subject (\(\$\)) acts as the agent, addressing the object of desire (\(a\)), which produces the master signifier (\(S1\)), while the truth is knowledge (\(S2\)).
Discourse of the Analyst: \(a\) → \(S1\) / \(\$\) → \(S2\)
The object of desire (\(a\)) acts as the agent, addressing the master signifier (\(S1\)), which produces knowledge (\(S2\)), while the truth is the divided subject (\(\$\)).
//...because there is no rationality to connect them other than to discern the different/ distinct goods of both being sought in each, and noting their difference (Difference and Repetition).
Key word here are "discern".
How????
What can you make with it?
""
The act of programming is the act of recognizing an environmental issue, analysis of that issue, and then automating the solution to that problem through the application of a computer. Without the analysis step, that is, rote work (data entry), is the division between programming and mere computer use. In this process there is a desire and and insight. The desire to resolve the issue and the insight in how to resolve the issue. The progammer is a black box that accepts input and delivers solutions. What happens inbetween is not mindless.
Programming is a literary exercise. Excellence in composition goes a long way.
Programming is a process of breaking a task down into an atomic level. Further division beyond that level merely reverts to the original state. Yet from the atomic level tasks can be derrived to achieve the larger goal.
Programming involves improving the solution until it reaches a natural plateau of which further solving is mere bike shedding.
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""People suffering from M0 really aren’t very good at appreciating feedback effects. They can only think one step ahead. Tramlines that can be policed can kind of hold societies of M0 people together, but have no inherent value beyond this, since the universe cannot in fact be understood procedurally. Moreover, people suffering from M0 can always do the unspeakable, and then deny it. The need for self-honesty so that their maps can be maintained accurately isn’t there, since they have no maps to maintain.""
""Packers always pretend that the map is the territory, play some silly word games, and then claim that they own integers and so on.""
;-P
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