.

And by a prudent flight and cunning save A life which valour could not, from the grave. A better buckler I can soon regain, But who can get another life again? Archilochus

Friday, March 10, 2023

Laying Ground for the UniParty's New UnConstitution


Editor’s note: at around 10 a.m. EST this morning, Michael Shellenberger and I will be testifying at the “Hearing on the Weaponization of the Federal Government on the Twitter Files” for the House Judiciary Committee, in the Select Subcommittee on the Weaponization of the Federal Government. Just before, around 9:00 a.m., we’ll also be releasing a TwitterFiles “Statement to Congress” thread, which will be submitted to the record. It contains some surprises. My opening:

Chairman Jordan, ranking member Plaskett, members of the Select Committee,

My name is Matt Taibbi. I’ve been a reporter for over 30 years, and an advocate for the First Amendment. Much of that time was spent at Rolling Stone magazine. Over my career, I’ve had the good fortune to be recognized for the work I love. I’ve won the National Magazine Award, the I.F. Stone Award for independent journalism, and written ten books, including four New York Times bestsellers. I’m now the editor of the online magazine Racket, on the independent platform Substack.

I’m here today because of a series of events that began late last year, when I received a note from a source online.

It read: “Are you interested in doing a deep dive into what censorship and manipulation… was going on at Twitter?”

A week later, the first of what became known as the “Twitter Files” reports came out. To say these attracted intense public interest would be an understatement. My computer looked like a slot machine as just the first tweet about the blockage of the Hunter Biden laptop story registered 143 million impressions and 30 million engagements.

But it wasn’t until a week after the first report, after Michael Shellenberger, Bari Weiss, and other researchers joined the search of the “Files,” that we started to grasp the significance of this story.

The original promise of the Internet was that it might democratize the exchange of information globally. A free internet would overwhelm all attempts to control information flow, its very existence a threat to anti-democratic forms of government everywhere.

What we found in the Files was a sweeping effort to reverse that promise, and use machine learning and other tools to turn the internet into an instrument of censorship and social control. Unfortunately, our own government appears to be playing a lead role.

We saw the first hints in communications between Twitter executives before the 2020 election, where we read things like:

Hi team, can we get your opinion on this? This was flagged by DHS:

Or:

Please see attached report from the FBI for potential misinformation.

This would be attached to excel spreadsheet with a long list of names, whose accounts were often suspended shortly after.

Following the trail of communications between Twitter and the federal government across tens of thousands of emails led to a series of revelations. Mr. Chairman, we’ve summarized these and submitted them to the committee in the form of a new Twitter Files thread, which is also being released to the public now, on Twitter at @ShellenbergerMD, and @mtaibbi.

We learned Twitter, Facebook, Google, and other companies developed a formal system for taking in moderation “requests” from every corner of government: the FBI, DHS, HHS, DOD, the Global Engagement Center at State, even the CIA. For every government agency scanning Twitter, there were perhaps 20 quasi-private entities doing the same, including Stanford’s Election Integrity Project, Newsguard, the Global Disinformation Index, and others, many taxpayer-funded.

A focus of this fast-growing network is making lists of people whose opinions, beliefs, associations, or sympathies are deemed “misinformation,” “disinformation,” or “malinformation.” The latter term is just a euphemism for “true but inconvenient.”

Undeniably, the making of such lists is a form of digital McCarthyism.

Ordinary Americans are not just being reported to Twitter for “deamplification” or de-platforming, but to firms like PayPal, digital advertisers like Xandr, and crowdfunding sites like GoFundMe. These companies can and do refuse service to law-abiding people and businesses whose only crime is falling afoul of a distant, faceless, unaccountable, algorithmic judge.

As someone who grew up a traditional ACLU liberal, this mechanism for punishment without due process is horrifying.

Another troubling aspect is the role of the press, which should be the people’s last line of defense.

But instead of investigating these groups, journalists partnered with them. If Twitter declined to remove an account right away, government agencies and NGOs would call reporters for the New York Times, Washington Post, and other outlets, who in turn would call Twitter demanding to know why action had not been taken.

Effectively, news media became an arm of a state-sponsored thought-policing system.

Some will say, “So what? Why shouldn’t we eliminate disinformation?”

To begin with, you can’t have a state-sponsored system targeting “disinformation” without striking at the essence of the right to free speech. The two ideas are in direct conflict.

Many of the fears driving what my colleague Michael Shellenberger calls the “Censorship-Industrial Complex” also inspired the infamous “Alien and Sedition Laws of 1798.” The latter outlawed “any false, scandalous, and malicious writing against Congress or the president.”

Here is something that will sound familiar: supporters of that law hundreds of years ago were quick to denounce their critics as sympathizers with a hostile foreign power, at the time France. Alexander Hamilton said Thomas Jefferson and his supporters were “more Frenchmen than Americans.”

Jefferson, in vehemently opposing these laws, said democracy cannot survive in a country where power is given to people “whose suspicions may be the evidence.” He added:

It would be a dangerous delusion were a confidence in the men of our choice to silence our fears for the safety of our rights: that confidence is everywhere the parent of despotism.

Jefferson’s ideas still ring true today. In a free society we don’t mandate truth, we arrive at it through discussion and debate. Any group that claims the “confidence” to decide fact and fiction, especially in the name of protecting democracy, is always, itself, the real threat to democracy.

This is why “anti-disinformation” just doesn’t work. Any experienced journalist knows experts are often initially wrong, and sometimes they even lie. In fact, when elite opinion is too much in sync, this itself can be a red flag.

We just saw this with the Covid lab-leak theory. Many of the institutions we’re now investigating initially labeled the idea that Covid came from a lab “disinformation” and conspiracy theory. Now apparently even the FBI takes it seriously.

It’s not possible to instantly arrive at truth. It is however becoming technologically possible to instantly define and enforce a political consensus online, which I believe is what we’re looking at.

This is a grave threat to people of all political persuasions.

For hundreds of years, the thing that’s distinguished Americans from all other people around the world is the way we don’t let anyone tell us what to think, certainly not the government.

The First Amendment, and an American population accustomed to the right to speak, is the best defense left against the Censorship-Industrial Complex. If the latter can knock over our first and most important constitutional guarantee, these groups will have no serious opponent left anywhere.

If there’s anything the Twitter Files show, it’s that we’re in danger of losing this most precious right, without which all other democratic rights are impossible.
Thank you for the opportunity to appear, and I would be happy to answer any questions from the Committee.

150 comments:

Q said...

Party-line divided echo chamnbers is much more dangerous.

Self-censure and spread of party-line prejudges.

Inability to listen to each other.

Is much more dangerous than any censure. Or, that is like it look from afar to this miserly anonimous.

-FJ the Dangerous and Extreme MAGA Jew said...

I disagree. I love divided government. Censure means it's NOT divided. It's united in oppressing at least half the domestic population.

Government is power/force. Do you want then controlling what YOU do? I want weak and ineffective government... ineffective in controlling what they disagree about and forcing their solutions upon the "rest of us".

Once the government begins censoring in a democracy, you no longer have a democracy. It's why free speech was #1 in the Bill of Rights (of citizens, NOT government).

-FJ the Dangerous and Extreme MAGA Jew said...

America is no longer a democracy. It's an oligarchy. Like Ukraine.

-FJ the Dangerous and Extreme MAGA Jew said...

I've LOST my country and democracy. THAT is why Europe is NMP. Uf I don't get MY country BACK, the entire WORLD is F'd.

Q said...

\\America is no longer a democracy. It's an oligarchy. Like Ukraine.

Yet again.
What definition of "oligarchy" you using???
And well.
You still know nothing about Ukraine. :-(


\\I disagree. I love divided government. Censure means it's NOT divided. It's united in oppressing at least half the domestic population.

Interesting idea.
But that is not how it works.
Censure euther for all... or there is no censure.


\\Government is power/force. Do you want then controlling what YOU do? I want weak and ineffective government... ineffective in controlling what they disagree about and forcing their solutions upon the "rest of us".

"Powerful government" means submissive people.
Like in Russia. Like in China.
That and only that.
There is NO power apart from that we the people willing to give up as decrease of their freedom.


\\Once the government begins censoring in a democracy, you no longer have a democracy. It's why free speech was #1 in the Bill of Rights (of citizens, NOT government).

But same time.
Populists are the same endemic for democracy... as that fleas to a dog. What would dog do,,, if it would not have fleas, to scratch. ;-P

-FJ the Dangerous and Extreme MAGA Jew said...

\\America is no longer a democracy. It's an oligarchy. Like Ukraine.
/Yet again.
What definition of "oligarchy" you using???
And well.
You still know nothing about Ukraine. :-(


Definition? Same as Plato, "Republic"

...and you know nothing of America. I'd say, that makes us even.


\\I disagree. I love divided government. Censure means it's NOT divided. It's united in oppressing at least half the domestic population.
/Interesting idea.
But that is not how it works.
Censure euther for all... or there is no censure.


Then who does the censoring?


\\Government is power/force. Do you want then controlling what YOU do? I want weak and ineffective government... ineffective in controlling what they disagree about and forcing their solutions upon the "rest of us".
/"Powerful government" means submissive people.
Like in Russia. Like in China.
That and only that.
There is NO power apart from that we the people willing to give up as decrease of their freedom.


See, THAT is what I love about Zizek. He channels Ayn Rand's John Galt into Melville's Bartleby. "I would prefer NOT to." :)


\\Once the government begins censoring in a democracy, you no longer have a democracy. It's why free speech was #1 in the Bill of Rights (of citizens, NOT government).
/But same time.
Populists are the same endemic for democracy... as that fleas to a dog. What would dog do,,, if it would not have fleas, to scratch. ;-P


You are using democracy as Plato would in "Republic", and not as Rousseau would use it in his "Social Contract". The problem is "which people"? The hoi polloi?, hoi agathoi? hoi kakistoi? And so we have a "representative democracy" in the expectation that it will be the hoi agathoi.

RW Emerson's "Representative Men".

Q said...

\\Definition? Same as Plato, "Republic"

We not agreed on it.

Because.
You not explained WHY exactly "oligarchy" is bad?
Which exactly traits described in it applyable to modern situation?


\\...and you know nothing of America. I'd say, that makes us
even.

Yeah... but there is little difference -- I do not claim that I know. ;-)
And do not use it as a base, for my baseless claims.



\\Then who does the censoring?

Some special organ, bestowed with some special powers.
Isn't that is obvious?
Why you ask such trivias?

Like in army -- special organ censoring mail...
Like in your Manhettan project you told you know many things about.


\\See, THAT is what I love about Zizek. He channels Ayn Rand's John Galt into Melville's Bartleby. "I would prefer NOT to." :)

(yawn) Natural thing for a phylosopher.
And. I bet he far from beating Dyogen in that discipline. ;-P


\\You are using democracy as Plato would in "Republic", and not as Rousseau would use it in his "Social Contract".

Yap.
'Cause "social contract" it's bogus malarkey. :-)))
Kinda like "labours value theory". Only from other side of the fence. ;-P



\\The problem is "which people"?

Well... you always can try to segregate... ;-P


e.g. that is EVERY life is important in a BioSphere. ;-)

-FJ the Dangerous and Extreme MAGA Jew said...

\\Definition? Same as Plato, "Republic"
/We not agreed on it.
Because.
You not explained WHY exactly "oligarchy" is bad?
Which exactly traits described in it applyable to modern situation?


I did not explain it, because Plato explained it. To understand, you would have to understand the ideal of a timocracy built upon principle's of honour and knowledge instead of money.


\\...and you know nothing of America. I'd say, that makes us even.
/Yeah... but there is little difference -- I do not claim that I know. ;-)
And do not use it as a base, for my baseless claims.


You don't? I'm the only one who "assumes"? Who judges based upon what he doesn't know (like America's "jobs")? Please.


\\Then who does the censoring?
/Some special organ, bestowed with some special powers.
Isn't that is obvious?
Why you ask such trivias?
Like in army -- special organ censoring mail...
Like in your Manhettan project you told you know many things about.


Yes the USIC (Intelligence Community), the same idiots pushing us into Ukrainian wars based upon 1950's Cold War hatreds with the USSR? I'd rather a bunch of wino's were in charge.


\\See, THAT is what I love about Zizek. He channels Ayn Rand's John Galt into Melville's Bartleby. "I would prefer NOT to." :)
/(yawn) Natural thing for a phylosopher.
And. I bet he far from beating Dyogen in that discipline. ;-P


Diogenes? Yes, he does beat him. For he knows the difference between a cynic and a kynic, and so doesn't masturbate in public. ;P


\\You are using democracy as Plato would in "Republic", and not as Rousseau would use it in his "Social Contract".
/Yap.
'Cause "social contract" it's bogus malarkey. :-)))
Kinda like "labours value theory". Only from other side of the fence. ;-P


The problem with the labour theory of value is that there are other theories operating in parallel, and so it doesn't apply to special cases.... like Bill Gates being able to "rent" the public sphere back to the public (intellectual property).


\\The problem is "which people"?
/Well... you always can try to segregate... ;-P
e.g. that is EVERY life is important in a BioSphere. ;-)


Always a good way to start a revolution...

Q said...

\\To understand, you would have to understand the ideal of a timocracy built upon principle's of honour and knowledge instead of money.

WYS.


\\ Who judges based upon what he doesn't know (like America's "jobs")? Please.

That is... obvious. Self-evidant. Known virtually to everybody. Fact.

Or??? What your CSGs are for?
Or, they not exist??? Like in that "Americans Never was on the Moon" tinfoil-hats conspiracy? 8-O

Uvalde Syndrom. You have all capabilities. But just the same as that sheriff keep claiming "that is not our job"???

What do you want of me???
To not believe to my lying eyes??? :-)))
But I am not Dem-junky. ;-P


\\Yes the USIC (Intelligence Community), the same idiots pushing us into Ukrainian wars based upon 1950's Cold War hatreds with the USSR? I'd rather a bunch of wino's were in charge.

We already discussed this case of Lindberg. ;-P


\\For he knows the difference between a cynic and a kynic, and so doesn't masturbate in public. ;P

Hmmm... am I need to know somthing?


\\like Bill Gates being able to "rent" the public sphere back to the public (intellectual property).

Ehm???
Clearly, that ref is not enough for me to understand...



\\Always a good way to start a revolution...

Little problem here... revolution it'll be -- only if it'll succed. ;-P
Otherwise, that'll be miserly "insurection" or even just a riot.
Rebelious age syndrome.

-FJ the Dangerous and Extreme MAGA Jew said...

\\ Who judges based upon what he doesn't know (like America's "jobs")? Please.
/That is... obvious. Self-evidant. Known virtually to everybody. Fact.
Or??? What your CSGs are for?
Or, they not exist??? Like in that "Americans Never was on the Moon" tinfoil-hats conspiracy? 8-O
Uvalde Syndrom. You have all capabilities. But just the same as that sheriff keep claiming "that is not our job"???
What do you want of me???
To not believe to my lying eyes??? :-)))
But I am not Dem-junky. ;-P


The US government is supposed to work for me. Evidently they now believe that I work for them, and that they work for "corporate America". Either they'll soon remember who they work for, or they soon won't be working for anybody.


\\For he knows the difference between a cynic and a kynic, and so doesn't masturbate in public. ;P
/Hmmm... am I need to know somthing?


Only if you want to understand the "liberal arts".


\\like Bill Gates being able to "rent" the public sphere back to the public (intellectual property).
/Ehm???
Clearly, that ref is not enough for me to understand...


Does Bill Gates use lots of labour to create his product... armies of software developers adding pieces of code to a code assembly line? No, he licenses his software to users. The value is in the license the public pays to use his software. He "rents" access to the internet... which is the public sphere... to those who wish to use it. The labour of his coders is moot, as it relates to the price of his product.


\\Always a good way to start a revolution...
/Little problem here... revolution it'll be -- only if it'll succed. ;-P
Otherwise, that'll be miserly "insurection" or even just a riot.
Rebelious age syndrome.


"For every action, there is an equal and opposite reaction." Isaac Newton

Q said...

\\"For every action, there is an equal and opposite reaction." Isaac Newton

"old wisdoms"... they are not precise. :-(



\\Does Bill Gates use lots of labour to create his product... armies of software developers adding pieces of code to a code assembly line?

And what do you have AGAINST vendor lock? ;-P

Well, in it's time, products like Windows, Word, Excel... was top notch killer apps... especially to a poor mass-market.
Prols who could not allow to buy neither Sun workstation, nor snobish Apples.


\\Only if you want to understand the "liberal arts".

It need understanding??? 8-O)))


\\The US government is supposed to work for me. Evidently they now believe that I work for them

"Do not ask what country did for you..." (c) ;-)

-FJ the Dangerous and Extreme MAGA Jew said...

Is that country Ukraine?

Q said...

Was Kennedy a banderovets? ;-P

-FJ the Dangerous and Extreme MAGA Jew said...

He was a mick. :P

Q said...

Well... he might knew what imperialistis oppression mean, then...

-FJ the Dangerous and Extreme MAGA Jew said...

He did run the world's largest empire. ;)

-FJ the Dangerous and Extreme MAGA Jew said...

...which is why our is an "affirmative" one.

-FJ the Dangerous and Extreme MAGA Jew said...

...and not a disciplinary one.

-FJ the Dangerous and Extreme MAGA Jew said...

:P

Q said...

Whatever you say. But you, USA IS NOT an Empire.

You do not have a clue what real empires are about. ;-P

That is just phantom pains of you being Colony of an Empire.

True One. And you still live out that your dependence.

True Empire -- cannot be one reling on others.

-FJ the Dangerous and Extreme MAGA Jew said...

Who tells the world "who" to "sanction"? Not Ukraine.

-FJ the Dangerous and Extreme MAGA Jew said...

You do what we say, or you cannot get the things you need to run your economy.

-FJ the Dangerous and Extreme MAGA Jew said...

With Central Bank Digital Currencies, you'll do what we say or you won't eat tomorrow.

Q said...

WYS

Q said...

Or... SVB.

Hope you have no acounts in it.

-FJ the Dangerous and Extreme MAGA Jew said...

The government bailed it out.... or perhaps I should more correctly say that the US taxpayers bailed it out.

-FJ the Dangerous and Extreme MAGA Jew said...

It's great when you can just print funny money and move it onto a spreadsheet along w/$9 trillion in other unsold debt.

Q said...

What is money... anyway. ;-)

-FJ the Dangerous and Extreme MAGA Jew said...

You should ask the day laborer making $8 an hour.

Q said...

He... can work for food. What's the difference??? For him. ;-P

Q said...

Then although they are the same, they are property to him who knows how to use each of them, but to him who does not know, they are no property; as for instance flutes are property to one who knows how to play...

-FJ the Dangerous and Extreme MAGA Jew said...

use vs exchange value. Spurious Plato, "Hipparchus".

Q said...

Yep.

Can you cite all traits of money?

You saying that you know Marx.

-FJ the Dangerous and Extreme MAGA Jew said...

...as a measure of value, a medium of circulation and finally as money proper.

I'm a Google Marxist. ;P

-FJ the Dangerous and Extreme MAGA Jew said...

Perhaps you can define "profit" as Plato did and become a Google Platonist.

Q said...

\\...as a measure of value, a medium of circulation and finally as money proper.

\\I'm a Google Marxist. ;P

It's better than being "banned in Google", still. ;-)


Well, I am not economist too. But I remember that there was some more traits. ;-)

Here it is. Just first resultin Google.

The characteristics of money are durability, portability, divisibility, uniformity, limited supply, and acceptability.

But well -- first and most important one must know/remember, to pretend knowing something about Marx -- it's that "money"... is just anouther kind of tradable goods. ;-P

That mean, that almost every other tradeable product -- can be "money".
Well, there are MANY types of money and money-substitutes.


So, now. On this firm ground we can return back to discussing all that questions above.


\\You do what we say, or you cannot get the things you need to run your economy.

\\With Central Bank Digital Currencies, you'll do what we say or you won't eat tomorrow.

\\The government bailed it out.... or perhaps I should more correctly say that the US taxpayers bailed it out.

\\It's great when you can just print funny money and move it onto a spreadsheet along w/$9 trillion in other unsold debt.

\\You should ask the day laborer making $8 an hour.


Can we?

-FJ the Dangerous and Extreme MAGA Jew said...

/So, now. On this firm ground we can return back to discussing all that questions above.
\\You do what we say, or you cannot get the things you need to run your economy.
\\With Central Bank Digital Currencies, you'll do what we say or you won't eat tomorrow.
\\The government bailed it out.... or perhaps I should more correctly say that the US taxpayers bailed it out.
\\It's great when you can just print funny money and move it onto a spreadsheet along w/$9 trillion in other unsold debt.
\\You should ask the day laborer making $8 an hour.
/Can we?


Sure.

\\You do what we say, or you cannot get the things you need to run your economy.

Ask the Cubans how well they're doing.


\\With Central Bank Digital Currencies, you'll do what we say or you won't eat tomorrow.

Ever hear of SWIFT? You can trade money, but you'll have to do it in person or on your own system with it's own expenses.

Q said...

\\\\You do what we say, or you cannot get the things you need to run your economy.

\\Ask the Cubans how well they're doing.

Ho.
So that is your doing... and not Commie regime that thwarted all economical activity. Who knew?? :-)))


\\\\With Central Bank Digital Currencies, you'll do what we say or you won't eat tomorrow.

\\Ever hear of SWIFT? You can trade money, but you'll have to do it in person or on your own system with it's own expenses.


Ever heard about "vekels"?
Popular around banksters of medieval Italy.
That made Venice a superpower. ;-P

-FJ the Dangerous and Extreme MAGA Jew said...

Vekels? Is that something Fibonocci came up with to calculate compound interest?

-FJ the Dangerous and Extreme MAGA Jew said...

...he stole it from the Arabs. ;)

Q said...

Err, sorry.
Veksels... credit papers.

-FJ the Dangerous and Extreme MAGA Jew said...

...like I said, "compound interest calculations" with "Arab" numerals (instead of Roman).

Fibonacci and the power of compound interest.

Q said...

No.

Veksels is just substitute for money. Paper money, so to say.

-FJ the Dangerous and Extreme MAGA Jew said...

Ah, got it. I thought that you might have been talking "loans".... ala "Shylock's Merchant of Venice"... pound of flesh.

Q said...

Yep. That is good demonstration of level of MIScommunication between us. :-(((

-FJ the Dangerous and Extreme MAGA Jew said...

Yes, we miscommunicate because our "desires" lead us to different conclusions. You want/need to believe that the US government will support you. My experience tells me to reach the opposite conclusion.

Q said...

It would be foolish from my side... to ignore that fact that you are USA native. And as such have much more experience in inner USA... well, all that political, economical and social... stuff.

But, really... was I EVER chellenged that your expertise? Or tryed to discuss with you your that inner... stuff.
Why making some brazen unreasonable claims. Pompously and without chance to appeal? ;-)

About "US government will support you"...
That is funny idea.
But I do not see even where, from which part to start phatoming it... as there practically NO threads of involvment such a miserly unsignificant prol as I am... with US government.
%-)))

Well. My bet. My working hypothesis.
That that is just a too new experience for you. (as well as for me)
To account for cultural differences and non-USA POVs.

-FJ the Dangerous and Extreme MAGA Jew said...

The "US government supporting you" is more in reference to your comments at Political Tea Leaves where you imply that America is somehow "afraid" to fight Russia.

The American people simply have no "beef" with Russia. Only our corporate masters with their surplus capital do.

-FJ the Dangerous and Extreme MAGA Jew said...

We are not members of Merchant Adventurers Company.

Q said...

\\The "US government supporting you" is more in reference to your comments at Political Tea Leaves where you imply that America is somehow "afraid" to fight Russia.

Well... that is... bare bones fullfledged factual truth. ;-P


\\The American people simply have no "beef" with Russia.

That... doesn't work like that.
You can think "I have no deef with that robberer" to your heart content... but it will not change THAT robberer resolve to rob you. ;-P

It seems like Dem-Woke-propaganda made its nest in your head too.
That hypocritical idea that "if we'd be 'nice' with all people of the World... they will be nice with US too". :-))))


World... that nasty World... it's bigger, than U.S.A. ;-P

-FJ the Dangerous and Extreme MAGA Jew said...

When Russia attacks the USA, then, and ONLY then, will I care about Russia.

Q said...

They already attacking. But "deep state" keeps that info away from you.

-FJ the Dangerous and Extreme MAGA Jew said...

Why would they do that, they're itching to start WWIII?

Q said...

Because they know your nature. Pearl Harbor Syndrome of yours.
That only when you hit, hard, you'd agree to action.
And from "thousand little cuts"... you'd surrender, and happily would embrace "new shiny idology". Like hitlerism. Or putinism. ;-P

And your elites f*gly do not want it. :-)))

And why they should??? Give up their wealth and power... to some dictators oversea... just because fellow USAians is such simpletons, that they are happy to gulp from dirty barrel of ratpoisonous propaganda from Old World.

You, would? ;-)

-FJ the Dangerous and Extreme MAGA Jew said...

When the leaders support average Americans, average Americans support their leaders. Ours no longer give an 'F about us.. so if Putin would make conditions better for average people, we'd support him and any "old world" ideology he'd care to bring with him, provided it doesn't make life "worse".

-FJ the Dangerous and Extreme MAGA Jew said...

...becasue average Americans really don't need "leaders"... they need to be left the 'F ALONE and NOT interfered with, spied upon, or CENSORED!

Q said...

\\so if Putin would make conditions better for average people

Clearly... you out of your mind.

He don't f*g care about his ruSSians.

YOU still think that he'd care about YOU???

That look like in that movie -- about proper english kid, in time of ww2, in Shanghai, then in Japs concentration camp.

How he tryed to keep attachment to a human scums bruglar/crook/scavenger...

Well, in his situation it was like... natural.

But, I do not see a REASON for your such behavior.
And that is... puzzling.

-FJ the Dangerous and Extreme MAGA Jew said...

Let him go ahead.

Ares is a democrat.

There are no privileged people

on a battlefield.


-Archilochus

Q said...

\\\\so if Putin would make conditions better for average people

If you think that you (USA working class) are mistreated in USA.

Go read something about 20%, around 20 millions of inhabitants of Rusha... became Belove Paupers.
As result of his war.

And that is in country. Where you need thick walls housing with heating... because half a year weather is like in your Minessota. ;-P

And to half of country delivery of fruits and vegitables... extrime service. Like to your Alaska.

And that is... while Government wasted BILLIONS of $$$ from oil and gas prices, and other raw materials on the level Arab Emirates... on absolutely, absurdly, needed only to their Dear Leader. War.

Because?

Because they are TRUE Empire.

Q said...

Let him go ahead.

Ares is a democrat.

There are no privileged people

on a battlefield.

-Archilochus


Wanna became empire? Wanna lost your life in some needless war for the sake of your Great Leader and your Empire...

you'd need a new tech anyway. ;-P

You will not be able to AVOID that dilemma.

All you can do, it's perform your kindergartners treak "b00-b00-b00... I don't here you... I don't listen to you".

-FJ the Dangerous and Extreme MAGA Jew said...

Amercians don't want empires. They want to be left alone.

Q said...

Again... Technologies. ;-P

Technologies you do not have STILL. No Elon can give you that -- like a ride to the Mars -- where'd you be trully and for sure ALONE. ;-P

Q said...

.



Tech... is the answer ;-)



-FJ the Dangerous and Extreme MAGA Jew said...

lol! Tech is the problem.

-FJ the Dangerous and Extreme MAGA Jew said...

Icarus flies too close to the sun.

-FJ the Dangerous and Extreme MAGA Jew said...

Now leave me alone, I've my own work to do.

Q said...

\\lol! Tech is the problem.

Yep. And that too.

Can of worms. ;-P


-FJ the Dangerous and Extreme MAGA Jew said...

:)

Q said...

Yo-ho-ho, and the bottle of rome? :-))

-FJ the Dangerous and Extreme MAGA Jew said...

roam? ;)

Q said...

buzz :-)))

Q said...

booze?

moment of hate

how da fk you able to make a clue of such error-prone lang???

-FJ the Dangerous and Extreme MAGA Jew said...

No, I got it. A buzz is what you get from booze.

Q said...

You, maybe. If you say so. I -- not. :-(((

-FJ the Dangerous and Extreme MAGA Jew said...

I don't drink any more. :(

Q said...

Sorry.
Now I see my mistake, and reason of misunderstanding, maybe.


That was...

\\No, I got it.

\\You, maybe... I -- not.

Means, it is too early for me, or maybe even impossible -- to grasp such a things only natives can.

Isn't it damning like hell.
Absolutely two different threads of thought.
While I think we talking about linguistics, you think we talking about alcoholism. :-)))))))))))))

Thank you for this possibility.
Under ordinary circumstances, live or around work communication.
That is either impossible, or there is no time to look deeper into such problems.
And I think such problems of misunderstanding and miscommunication are much more ubiquotous, than we teached to anticipate.

Language... quite errorneous mean of communication. But still, it's the best what we have, still.

-FJ the Dangerous and Extreme MAGA Jew said...

I love Miss Communication...it's a lot like money.

-FJ the Dangerous and Extreme MAGA Jew said...

Takeaway from link...

Both money and language/communication/miscommunication have a power of being able to transform visibles into invisibles and invisibles into visibles. This power, as we shall see, is associated with new economic and political forms that shattered the previous world and its culture.

The phrase qui pro quo, or quiproquo (from medieval Latin: literally qui instead of quo), is common in languages such as Italian, Portuguese, Spanish and French, where it means a misunderstanding.

ie: Qui pro quo is a Latin expression that means qui instead of quo, which can cause a mistake or confusion1. Quid pro quo is another Latin phrase that means something for something, which can refer to an exchange of goods or services that depends on each other234. Quid pro quo originally implied a substitution of one thing for another, especially in medicine3. Qui pro quo and quid pro quo are sometimes used interchangeably, but they have different origins and meaning.

Q said...

We-e-e-ell... mutation is the source of progress... as that smarty Darwin devised.

Q said...

To show that I am not...

not willing to understand or not perceptive enough.


There is that movie "On the Edge"? With Hopkins and Bolduin.

Can it work like bit of understanding -- if I'd say that I see what you talking about in it:

struggle of money and control
against pure passion and love?
on the background of you escapistic ideals -- to run away from civilization, to fight with some simple and naturally antagonistic things.
And all that.

-FJ the Dangerous and Extreme MAGA Jew said...

The Edge.

Sure, that works. :)

-FJ the Dangerous and Extreme MAGA Jew said...

Beauty is in the eye of the beholder.

-FJ the Dangerous and Extreme MAGA Jew said...

RW Emerson "Conduct of Life, Beauty"

I am warned by the ill fate of many philosophers not to attempt a definition of Beauty. I will rather enumerate a few of its qualities. We ascribe beauty to that which is simple; which has no superfluous parts; which exactly answers its end; which stands related to all things; which is the mean of many extremes. It is the most enduring quality, and the most ascending quality. We say, love is blind, and the figure of Cupid is drawn with a bandage round his eyes. Blind: — yes, because he does not see what he does not like; but the sharpest-sighted hunter in the universe is Love, for finding what he seeks, and only that; and the mythologists tell us, that Vulcan was painted lame, and Cupid blind, to call attention to the fact, that one was all limbs, and the other, all eyes. In the true mythology, Love is an immortal child, and Beauty leads him as a guide: nor can we express a deeper sense than when we say, Beauty is the pilot of the young soul.

Love, on, Vulcan.

-FJ the Dangerous and Extreme MAGA Jew said...

Technologists are Science Fiction's mythical Hecatoncheires.

Q said...

DAMN

Technologist - Wikipedia
en.wikipedia.org › wiki › Technologist
Technologist ; Applied Science Technologist, a Canadian professional title in engineering and applied science technology. ; Architectural technologist, a ...


Well... that is close to my usage of word. But it seems not that closer. So it creates misunderstanding.
Right?


On a factory/plan/forge -- technologist it's a person which controls workflow of technology. What parameters. What elements. How all people involved unbderstand it.

Basicly they make algorithm or blueprint for HOW to make damn thing. While engineers do WHAT part.

Probably, in English, there is some obscure more precise termin for it, yes?

Q said...

\\The Edge.

\\Sure, that works. :)

Good.

But that is only model for understanding it. Analiticly.

It seems I do not posess experiences to emphatise with it. :-(

'Cause, I have lots of experience of interaction with pastorale countryside... for me to have a nostalgia for such simpicity and traditionalism. ;-P

-FJ the Dangerous and Extreme MAGA Jew said...

/Basicly they make algorithm or blueprint for HOW to make damn thing. While engineers do WHAT part.
Probably, in English, there is some obscure more precise termin for it, yes?


Industrial Engineer (high tech)? Production Engineer (low tech)? Master Planner (all tech)? I suppose it has to do with the facility/product and tech needed to produce it. I've held all three titles.

-FJ the Dangerous and Extreme MAGA Jew said...

There is some overlap... Master Planners typically turn their plans over to Industrial Engineers for shop floor implementation and generations of Work Instructions/ Procedures.

-FJ the Dangerous and Extreme MAGA Jew said...

Master Planners typically create a schedule that all elements of the organization try and follow. Engineers produce the blueprints, material lists, and assembly drawings according to that schedule. Industrial Engineers then develop work instructions and procedures for in-house processes from these Engineering drawings according to a schedule developed by the Master Planners. Procurement people typically purchase materials on Engineering Materials/Parts Lists and arrange subcontracts for out-of-house processes. Lots of different skills/specialties are involved.

-FJ the Dangerous and Extreme MAGA Jew said...

Master Planners also work closely with the Project Management Teams, which include Managers/Scientists/Systems Engineers/QA/Contracts/Finance

-FJ the Dangerous and Extreme MAGA Jew said...

I have a BS in Marine Engineering and an MS is Systems Management.

-FJ the Dangerous and Extreme MAGA Jew said...

But perhaps all of this is too low-level. The real "vision" for a new technology originates in visions of the scientists and the scientific community. These "visions" are produced by major science organizations in their long rang plans. Like: http://nap.nationalacademies.org/26141.pdf

-FJ the Dangerous and Extreme MAGA Jew said...

Hmmm... that link doesn't work... it was to National Academies of Sciences, Engineering, and Medicine 2021. Pathways to
Discovery in Astronomy and Astrophysics for the 2020s
. Washington, DC: The
National Academies Press. https://doi.org/10.17226/26141.

-FJ the Dangerous and Extreme MAGA Jew said...

NASA takes these high level plans and issues Announcements of Opportunities (AOs) for projects selected for funding by NASA HQ. Scientists in different organizations familiar with the Opportunity develop concepts with organizational team members and respond to AO's with proposals. Source Selection Engineering Boards review proposals and select winners. Winners begin developing the technologies and are reviewed periodically by Evaluation Boards until they're successfully developed, or cancelled by the evaluation boards.

-FJ the Dangerous and Extreme MAGA Jew said...

There's no single "name" or "job title" for it, because it spans to many disciplines and specialists.

Q said...

\\Industrial Engineer (high tech)? Production Engineer (low tech)? Master Planner (all tech)? I suppose it has to do with the facility/product and tech needed to produce it. I've held all three titles.

Yap.
To sum it up.
Everybody knows that Gustaf Eiffel was designer of that Eiffel Tower, yes?
But, that that he was also one who have built it... from scratch too, is way more obscure. From the metal bars level. Because that time there was no stock of metal bars. :-))

That is how it is with all new techs or breakthrough projects.

How they say it, on yout turf... about real man who can be dropped with a switch-knife and box of matches amids desert... and in a month there'd be Walmart built. ;-)


Yap.

Yap.

Yap.

And yap again. To not mangle it with quoting. :-)


\\But perhaps all of this is too low-level. The real "vision" for a new technology originates in visions of the scientists and the scientific community.

I think that is result of your circumstances of time and place.
(see above, Eiffel example)


\\http://nap.nationalacademies.org/26141.pdf

Bad Gateway: /26141.pdf :-((

That other return error too. :-((

Well. Whatever.


\\Scientists in different organizations familiar with the Opportunity develop concepts with organizational team members and respond to AO's with proposals. Source Selection Engineering Boards review proposals and select winners. Winners begin developing the technologies and are reviewed periodically by Evaluation Boards until they're successfully developed, or cancelled by the evaluation boards.

Bureaucracy? ;-)



\\There's no single "name" or "job title" for it, because it spans to many disciplines and specialists.

Well... systems engineer?

Inventor and visioner? :-)

Stark? (tongue in cheek) (I just like it how they showed engineering in that Iron Man :-))))

Elon? ;-P


Well... after thinking about it all, I think that closest metaphora for what I seek for... is movie making.

Really.
How NEW movies do start?
There is producers, but they do not dirt their hands with such a low-level job. Only assess what piggybacked to them...

There is script writers... but they are more like just a beautifiers, gardners to sweep and cut hairy thought process.

There is directors... but they (mostly) start work when script already done.

Also there is actors and stunt masters, cameramans, stage workers, all kinds of secretaries, art directors and painters, drivers... and etc, etc, etc.

But they ALL needed to make a tasty... movie.

Only SPARK needed... which, I really don't know too much about that business, really. But they say, that that spark, that IDEA... can come almost from anywhere. (well, of course, producers and directors, especially famous ones, then scriptwriters... have much bigger chances)

Even from complete outsiders. ;-P



-FJ the Dangerous and Extreme MAGA Jew said...

:)

:P

Q said...

[PDF] Pathways to Discovery in Astronomy and Astrophysics for the 2020s
cor.gsfc.nasa.gov › Astro2020
This study is based on work supported by Contract NNH17CB02B with the National Aeronautics and. Space Administration, Grant AST-1852611 with the National ...

Q said...

What I can say about it?

Well... with my tech(s) apropriation of all goodies of Our Solar System could be possible.

And who knows... maybe some probes to other too. ;-P

Guess, nothing like that is in that PDF ;-P
Bureaucratic mind freakingly cannot think out-of-the-box.

Q said...

.


Wanna talk bout s/thg really interesting, for change?

Like.

Difference Old Boring VS New Hot way... to send interstallar probe(s)?
Old Boring way is dead simple -- there's Absolutely Freakingly Boringly NONE. ;-P
Amount of tech, soc, econ and etc problems is just TOO enormous.

As for New Hot all is trivial. Beyond Obviousnesss.

Like.

We need to send s/thg. A capsule. An Ovo, for short.

And that Ovo need to be time capsule. Fly through Space for hundreds, thousand years. For then to hatch with some prcise and robust machinery over there.

For that, it need to be a seed.(too trivial to elaborate)

Able to find local resources. Collect Energy. And make (for very least) a reciever. To recieve further orders.

...

Q said...

That Ovo need to have a shell. Thougher in its front side.
What Old Boring way of doing it? To make some hard plate from tough metals? With hope that it'll survive the travel.

Lots of dead weight.

New Hot way... imagine bunch of pencils. With inner sensors to check which one would became more damaged, to pull it out and to renew.

Have ideas how to achieve something like that Old Boring way? ;-P


Then.
Most important part -- acceleration. Tsyolkovsky's formula -- damning as hell. To make that Ovo to reach decent speed -- busters need to be of 1000x (kidding, for simplicity) times more massive.
And know what is even more damning? ;-P
You'd need to send such Ovo + 1000x
Because?
Because you'd need to DEcelerate at destination point. :-))))

That need INITIAL buster of size Ovo + 1000x + 1.000.000x :-))))))))))


New Hot way is apparent -- use EXTERNAL busting capabilities.
AND gravitation maneures.

But... to reach decent speed (and to decelarate successfully at destination) -- that need to be maneuring around the star.

Have Old Boring ideas, how to make it?

...

Reflective foam. Which reflects 99.99999% of that hot.
While constantly regenerating. while losing miserly amounts of mass. ;-P

Have idea how to make it Old Boring way? Maybe some eggheads from NASA know?
Naah.


...

Q said...

To make it possible... one need to start thinking about Galactic GPS.

Because of that need to send probe THAT PRECISE, that it could perform gravitation maneure with smallest corrections.

Have Old Boring idea how to make it?

...

Send many-many-MANY Ovos.
Most of which will be for infrastructure: laser trasmission lines, spare fuel tanks, interferometers and etc.


Looks im-freaking-possible?
That's because of Old Boring way of thinking. ;-)


MOST of it would be needed for Our Solar System exploration.
And tryed and tested many-many time.
And would build backbone for such interstellar probes launches. ;-P

As well as provide many-many-MANY goodies... for earthlings.

-FJ the Dangerous and Extreme MAGA Jew said...

If you build it, they will come. ;)

-FJ the Dangerous and Extreme MAGA Jew said...

btw - aerobraking, backside GPS, and if you need beacons spaced furthur apart, four should do.

Q said...

\\If you build it, they will come. ;)

Bullet Summary:
- Ray hears a mysterious voice telling him to build a baseball field in his cornfield
- The voice promises that if he builds it, people will come, and they do
- The field becomes a pilgrimage site for baseball fans
- Ray is able to reconcile with his estranged father through playing catch on the field
- The movie explores themes of nostalgia, family relationships, and the power of belief
- "If you build it, he will come" has become a cultural reference for taking risks and unexpected rewards.

via YoutubeSummerizer.com

-FJ the Dangerous and Extreme MAGA Jew said...

Demo's can work wonders when selling a new concept. :)

Q said...

Fullfeatured demos? ;-)

That would be Catch 22. To make such demo to find investors/team one need to HAVE that demo one want to find investors/team to make.

Well... they say that to make that Terminator flick Cameron came to the studio camuflaged as that T-101 we know in a face of Shuva-tian. :-)))


As for my idea... to show a demo is very easy. Too easy.
Just point at anything live. Made of cells. Trees. Animals. Ourself.

Cell-based technology is much more profound and perspective.
Than anything we have built so far.

Bang!

But that would need level of imagination, to be able to perform such a Paradigm Shift inside one's brains...

So??? What would work as demo... in such setup... :-(

-FJ the Dangerous and Extreme MAGA Jew said...

An animation, beginning with a single cell.... how it works... then scaled to two cells to show communication... and then a third part to show how an external algorithm can be inserted to direct system-cooperation.... and then perhaps a final part that would demonstrate how the cells would perform some higher level function. This would all be presented at you pitch to sharks on shark-tank. :)

-FJ the Dangerous and Extreme MAGA Jew said...

:P

-FJ the Dangerous and Extreme MAGA Jew said...

:)

-FJ the Dangerous and Extreme MAGA Jew said...

What is all this high tech good for, if not Sims and Demos?

-FJ the Dangerous and Extreme MAGA Jew said...

Have an AI do it.

Q said...

\\An animation, beginning with a single cell....

Individual cells do not do much... :-(
if that is not something so versatile and funny as infusoria or ameoba.

Well... if my idea would be about artifical ameoba... it could be much easier, in all senses, probably. :-)


\\ how it works... then scaled to two cells to show communication...

Cells do not communicate... too much, too. :-(

That is not individual cells, but tissues (many-many cells of the same kind closely coupled) which can do someting.
Like, create a muscle.

Then that muscles must be connected with some other tissues.
Like transport one, to feed it.
And some neuro-system -- which then you can command.

It can look complicated. But... we have 3D-printed HEARTS today. For god sake.
So, that cannot be seen as something totally incredible, isn't it?


\\and then a third part to show how an external algorithm can be inserted to direct system-cooperation...

That is lasy ass task today. @@
If there is muscles. And neurones inplanted into it.
Just start a NN algo to learn how to use that muscles.


\\and then perhaps a final part that would demonstrate how the cells would perform some higher level function. This would all be presented at you pitch to sharks on shark-tank. :)

Well...
what exactly function would be the best choise?
What could be most persuasive... apart from our own existance -- which possible because of cell-based tech used by Evolution to create us???

I percieve that as very important, crucial point.

From technical side -- I thought about "artifical fish".
As that is simplest usable application of such tech could be -- just two muscles. As in real fish, to wiggle it's 3D-printed tail. Plus some cheap microcontroller board. Plus some sort of batteries.

And viola... you can start to produce em in thousands... or millions.
To check pollution in sea waters. Tracking submarines. Or even delivering some spy-devices or even explosive to em.
To that nasty "Poseidons" of Rusha. ;-P


Or...
It could be "smart smartphone cover".
Made of cells that know only one thing -- how to inflate itself, rapidly.
Attached to smartphone via USB.
Plus small and simple app on it -- which tracking when/if it gone into free flight -- so it would not crash its precious big shiny screens.

Then... it could be enhansed and produced in millions of varieties. To the level of becoming handheld pet.
Isn't that would be great for startup?


Or...
Shaped into artifical octopuses.
Which can connect with each other. To perform virually any needed function. In Space. Or on the Mars.
For NASA. Or for Elon. ;-P


And...
Thousand other possibilities I could, or could not devise... maybe just yet.


You know? What they'll ask? That sharks?
"What the market of it"??? And "how fast and how reliable I would have my money back(with surplus, of course)"???

Q said...

Luc Besson... not technologist. Not scientist even. ;-P

-FJ the Dangerous and Extreme MAGA Jew said...

\\An animation, beginning with a single cell....
/Individual cells do not do much... :-(
if that is not something so versatile and funny as infusoria or ameoba.
Well... if my idea would be about artifical ameoba... it could be much easier, in all senses, probably. :-)


What's in the cell (living or artificial)? What are the parts/ what are their functions?


\\ how it works... then scaled to two cells to show communication...
/Cells do not communicate... too much, too. :-(


Why not? How do you know? Can they receive signals? Can they sense an electromagnetic field and orientate NSEW in it?


/That is not individual cells, but tissues (many-many cells of the same kind closely coupled) which can do someting.
Like, create a muscle.


What materials do you propose join the cells into a tissue layer (natural/ artificial)? Will you 3-D print them, or like in single-layers of graphene in fluid, spread them in single-cell (layer) or as multi-layers in a mold (pouring as a fluid? How will they join with other cell types? Adhesively or with some mechanical formed/interface?


/Then that muscles must be connected with some other tissues.
Like transport one, to feed it.
And some neuro-system -- which then you can command.


Feed it, remove waste from it, supply energy to it? Insulate it (axonal sheaths). Repair/ replace it (if mechanically or otherwise damaged)


It can look complicated. But... we have 3D-printed HEARTS today. For god sake.
So, that cannot be seen as something totally incredible, isn't it?


Maybe. But, I don't want one, yet. It's too complicated. It would be better if you could get the cells to self-organize with a DNA-like set of encoded instructions (map) and then allow them to communicate/ figure out where to go and how to orientate themselves on their own (as in a developing human body) and self-secrete their own tissue-forming adhesives.


\\and then a third part to show how an external algorithm can be inserted to direct system-cooperation...
/That is lasy ass task today. @@
If there is muscles. And neurones inplanted into it.
Just start a NN algo to learn how to use that muscles.


Easy for you maybe, but sounds complicated/ hard to me What part of the cell or cellular subsystem receives the algo and sends an acknowledgment signal back confirming no data loss? Some kind of CCSDS protocol? Do the cells each have a unique address based in some location mapping scheme? How does a cell function when damaged? Can other cells tell?


\\and then perhaps a final part that would demonstrate how the cells would perform some higher level function. This would all be presented at you pitch to sharks on shark-tank. :)
/Well...
what exactly function would be the best choise?
What could be most persuasive... apart from our own existance -- which possible because of cell-based tech used by Evolution to create us???
I percieve that as very important, crucial point.


Something that would convincing prove the technical feasibility/ possibility of artificially mimicking natural cell-based tech.

-FJ the Dangerous and Extreme MAGA Jew said...

/From technical side -- I thought about "artifical fish".
As that is simplest usable application of such tech could be -- just two muscles. As in real fish, to wiggle it's 3D-printed tail. Plus some cheap microcontroller board. Plus some sort of batteries.


It would take 10,000 human-sized cells to cover the head of a pin. How big is your fish and the battery/controller board? What does it cost to make one? Non-recurring (for the 1st) and recurring (per unit after 1st)?


And viola... you can start to produce em in thousands... or millions.
To check pollution in sea waters. Tracking submarines. Or even delivering some spy-devices or even explosive to em.
To that nasty "Poseidons" of Rusha. ;-P


meet the techical, cost, and schedule targets for the first few fish... and maybe you can hook a shark investor.


/Or...
It could be "smart smartphone cover".
Made of cells that know only one thing -- how to inflate itself, rapidly.
Attached to smartphone via USB.
Plus small and simple app on it -- which tracking when/if it gone into free flight -- so it would not crash its precious big shiny screens.


Some kind of shape-memory material might do it, but when you say something like "inflate" I have to think air pumps, valves, pressurized tanks... sounds expensive (more than the phone).


Then... it could be enhansed and produced in millions of varieties. To the level of becoming handheld pet.
Isn't that would be great for startup?


What's the per-unit cost-point?


/Or...
Shaped into artifical octopuses.
Which can connect with each other. To perform virually any needed function. In Space. Or on the Mars.
For NASA. Or for Elon. ;-P


Size, Manufacturability and cost of an octopus... and then number needed to perform some useful function in a hostile environment (vacuum/ thermal extremes/ no air)


/And...
Thousand other possibilities I could, or could not devise... maybe just yet.


Yes, much like life itself, the possibilities would be endless.


You know? What they'll ask? That sharks?
"What the market of it"??? And "how fast and how reliable I would have my money back(with surplus, of course)"???


Probably, but they expect this kind of data.


/Luc Besson... not technologist. Not scientist even. ;-P

He doesn't have to be... his money will buy him anything he needs. It almost has "magical" properties.

-FJ the Dangerous and Extreme MAGA Jew said...

Oh, the director (Luc Besson) I thought you were talking the sharks. Hollywood magic. :)

-FJ the Dangerous and Extreme MAGA Jew said...

...hence the "animation" idea.

Q said...

\\What's in the cell (living or artificial)? What are the parts/ what are their functions?

Yep.
That's because it -- Evolution. Needed to make it that way.
To be able to make such things like whale... or elephant... or us -- from ONE cell. ;-)

We... not limited that much.
Artifical cell can be MUCH-much simpler.
And be produced not from inside, but from outside.

3D-printing... meets microelectronics. ;-)
You obviously must be know how microchips made, isn't it?
Layer by layer.
With adding needed circuitry and different types of elements.

Now... is it hard to visualise it? ;-P


\\Why not? How do you know? Can they receive signals? Can they sense an electromagnetic field and orientate NSEW in it?

Yep.
They can.
But in tissues. In our bodies. That counts as being "overqualifed". ;-)
Did you recived such... in response to your resume? ;-P




\\What materials do you propose join the cells into a tissue layer (natural/ artificial)? Will you 3-D print them, or like in single-layers of graphene in fluid, spread them in single-cell (layer) or as multi-layers in a mold (pouring as a fluid? How will they join with other cell types? Adhesively or with some mechanical formed/interface?

See.
You gotcha.
There is MULTITUDE of possible ways.
One can be useful in one case and unusable in another.
More technological and cheap, while other one more versatile.

That is... cannot be devised in advance... without actual experiments.
That's how it is.



\\Feed it, remove waste from it, supply energy to it? Insulate it (axonal sheaths). Repair/ replace it (if mechanically or otherwise damaged)

Yap.


...

Q said...

\\It's too complicated. It would be better if you could get the cells to self-organize with a DNA-like set of encoded instructions (map) and then allow them to communicate/ figure out where to go and how to orientate themselves on their own (as in a developing human body) and self-secrete their own tissue-forming adhesives.

No kidding? Complicated? :-)))
To make von Neyman's replicators... easy-peasy???

While to make some program for CNC mill machine... with just slightly innovative head used -- is too damn complicated?


\\Easy for you maybe, but sounds complicated/ hard to me What part of the cell or cellular subsystem receives the algo and sends an acknowledgment signal back confirming no data loss?

That's why... Symulation/Testing step is so damn important.

We have no knowledge about how such systems would behave. In large.



\\Something that would convincing prove the technical feasibility/ possibility of artificially mimicking natural cell-based tech.

We already do that.
With big success.
Only... on scribed dies. In silico. ;-)

Microchips made that way. Layer by layer. While adding elements of comunication circuitry and working elements.

Only... it need to be made on flexible base. And that is... real technological question inside it all. But... am I too inadequate??? :-) If I'll claim that that technological problems... not that big.
Other (like to find people who'd understand that that problem is not big, and all plan realistic) problems much bigger.


...

Q said...

\\Some kind of shape-memory material might do it, but when you say something like "inflate" I have to think air pumps, valves, pressurized tanks... sounds expensive (more than the phone).

How do safety pillows in a cars made? ;-)
Do they have pumps?

There just too many variants of how to make it. Chemically. Or elecrically. Piezoelectric? Whatever would work. And be cheaper.


\\Yes, much like life itself, the possibilities would be endless.

Yes.
You gotcha.


\\Probably, but they expect this kind of data.

And I.
Still dunno what to say here.
Because, in your own words "Yes, much like life itself, the possibilities would be endless."

So??? How can I answer to "What is the market?" if most honest answer would be -- Everything!

Or? "Where'd be my money back?" If most honest answer would be -- would you need any money??? Man, with such tech you can travel to a Mars, plant a seed, from which whole otherwordly rancho would spraut -- would you STILL need some money? :-))))

-FJ the Dangerous and Extreme MAGA Jew said...

You'd probably need to sell your cow just to get three of those Martian seeds... ;)

Q said...

:-))))

Catch-22 Dilemma - TV Tropes
tvtropes.org › Tropes
A Catch-22 Dilemma is a situation that a character cannot resolve or get out of because they have nowhere to start working on it.

Q said...

So, we can conclude...
that that my idea is not about soc, bis or tech innovation. Can we? Isn't it apparent by this time?

It is about Systems Engineering Innovation. ;-)

Really.
In the beginning engineers was doing it with Waterfall approach.

1 stating a goal --> thinking out Design from that goal --> Production.

Simple and straightforward, isn't it?

With time, and especially today, engineers found that "think first" Design... with all due regrets, but... it do not work. Because it's impossible to "think out" everything from the very beginning. The same as it's impossible to know what problems in process of Production would arise.

So, now it became iterative process. Everywhere.

1 stating of goal prolonged --> Design starts from some "initial prototype", that then keep being improved while tossed back and forth into Production department, then back into R&D, then again Production.


My idea turns it all to eleven. ;-P

1 it is very feint goal/idea (tech based on examples from Nature) --> Design means stage of Modelling of that "based on Nature" things, which goes hand in hand with --> Production stage, because means of production need to develop and can even became undestinguishable from product itself (like in bootstrapping scenario -- what is the first, chiken... or egg? egg... or chiken? ;-P), but then... --> there is ADDITIONAL stage, which was subsumed/ignored in previous setups/approaches Simulation/Testing -- which added to COLLECT information, which can be (NO, MUST BE) used back onto previous stages... up to redefining even goals itself. ;-)

Q said...

And I thought I made it concise. :-(((

-FJ the Dangerous and Extreme MAGA Jew said...

It sounded like MBSE to me.

Q said...

Yes, it is.

But... there is secret souse. ;-P

Do you know Theory of Invention. ;-)

-FJ the Dangerous and Extreme MAGA Jew said...

Nope. Invenstion from Wikipedia: An invention is a unique or novel device, method, composition, idea or process. An invention may be an improvement upon a machine, product, or process for increasing efficiency or lowering cost. It may also be an entirely new concept. If an idea is unique enough either as a stand alone invention or as a significant improvement over the work of others, it can be patented. A patent, if granted, gives the inventor a proprietary interest in the patent over a specific period of time, which can be licensed for financial gain.

An inventor creates or discovers an invention. The word inventor comes from the Latin verb invenire, invent-, to find.[1][2] Although inventing is closely associated with science and engineering, inventors are not necessarily engineers or scientists.[3] Due to advances in artificial intelligence, the term "inventor" no longer exclusively applies to an occupation (see human computers).[4]


Create a need for a solution you've already discovered?

Q said...

Of course... because that is not in English sector of the Internet. ;-P

Well... more or less, it based on analysis of history of development of techs.
That shows that there can be some shortcuts and treaks and workarounds. ;-)
From what I know about your USA engineering school... you know only ONE kind of it -- brainstorms. ;-P

And... that historical, but outdated -- Edison's Workshop.

That is all what you know about inventing... in your culture? Am I correct?


So.

To sum it up.

Urbu et orbi.

My idea it's combination of:

That, that you called MBSE -- pretty obvious and maybe not that edgy already approaches.

PLUS

Thing called Theory of Invention.

PLUS

Thing you could know as -- Bionics -- how biological systems work... from engineers POV.

PLUS

Well... that thing I pounding to not end:
Cell-based design, layer by layer manufacturing.


Is it enough to take off? As it is.
Most probably not.
But, in combination it pretty unique and dare to think -- have perspective.
With some more ingridients added...

Q said...

\\Create a need for a solution you've already discovered?

Well... ain't that motto of Marketing? ;-)

Q said...

MBSE is clever, though obvious.

But... how do you see it working with our contemporary techs?
Based on metal. All that wheels and shafts and iron rods. ;-P

I presume that you know enough of it, to know that most important benefits of that MBSE idea -- varing sizes/diameters, to make model more suiting in different cases -- is too expensive and unrealistic.

Really, we have that robotic lines, that declared being "flexible". But that is a scam -- to rearrange em, costs are too much. And anyway, most of that "flexibility" is in trained workers.

So... nobody even thinking about producing 100, 1000... of different variants, different models -- quite contrary, standartisation is a must.

So???

What other tech can synergise with that MBSE?

Slightly newer techs based on plastics???

But... that is laughable. As plastic tech based on made of iron stamps -- which then produce millions identical copies of plastic garbage.


So... now... we naturally coming to 3D-printing.
But... is it complete? is it ready?


My claim. That MBSE approach most naturally to connect with Cell-based tech. ;-)

Q said...

I see extention of Systems Engineering with Modelling as naturtal.

Because, in a nutshell SE is about artefacts. That's it, artifical objects. Phich presented as phenomena... but also need to be presented a noumens too -- to share context among human minds.

Adding models to it... seems like natural, isn't it? ;-)

-FJ the Dangerous and Extreme MAGA Jew said...

How many Material Science classes have you taken? I took two. And having worked at NASA, I'd say that 3-D printing with multiple materials is still decades away. There are just too many process variants. There are good reasons why aircraft carriers aren't 3-D printed.

Q said...

\\I'd say that 3-D printing with multiple materials is still decades away.

Well... for example in Disney Lab... they was experimenting with flexible base. ;-)

There lots of such new researches too. I do not dive to not discourage myself (shy)

But, that is inevitable, that my idea will become not that new and breakthrough... with time.
And without my name attached to it. :-)


\\There are good reasons why aircraft carriers aren't 3-D printed.

That is perfectly exact reason... why my this idea NEED to be that complex.
Because just simple combining of old designs with modern techs -- do not work, and will not work.

New techs preclude New design approaches -- isn't it obvious?


Still... you should know about "modular" shipbuilding, wouldn't you?
When they make ship like that LEGO puzzles from blocks made and filled with all needed machinery elsewhere. ;-)

-FJ the Dangerous and Extreme MAGA Jew said...

I spent 7 years in shipyards, so yes, I know "modular shipbuilding". But the point is that it is a highly regulated industry, with materials used codified into the Code of Federal Regulations (for fire/ safety reasons) and into the Insurance rating agencies (Lloyds/ABS). 90% of designing a ship today is "applying laws" (where valves are needed, how far firefighting stations can be apart, etc., materials used for fuel and lube oil lines, etc.).

Q said...

Yep...

Tech on the late state of development. ;-)


As any inventor... it seems that U have tunnel vision -- seeing my ideas as "so damn simple, why nobody can see that simplicity... and beauty".

But stamnbling stone is the same -- people not ready to see that novely.

But no prob... question how and why paradigm shoifts happen -- is interesting too to research.
Imagine -- that we would be able to facilitate such breakthroughs, or even create em? ;-)

-FJ the Dangerous and Extreme MAGA Jew said...

I'm not an "inventor". I invent nothing. I simply provide paths for other to their visions.

As Socrates often said...(Plato, "Theatetus") "Come then to me, who am a midwife, and the son of a midwife, and I will deliver you. And do not bite me, as the women do, if I abstract your first-born; for I am acting out of good-will towards you; the God who is within me is the friend of man, though he will not allow me to dissemble the truth. Once more then, Theaetetus, I repeat my old question—"What is knowledge?" Take courage, and by the help of God you will discover an answer."

-FJ the Dangerous and Extreme MAGA Jew said...

We only lack the one key ingredient...

Q said...

As for Modelling/Symulation stage.

Just google for "artifical evolution symulation"

Like...

I programmed some creatures. They Evolved. - YouTube
www.youtube.com › watch
... evolution in an attempt to learn something about how evolution works ...

Artificial Evolution of Growing Soft Creatures - YouTube
www.youtube.com › watch
F. Corucci, N. Cheney, H. Lipson, C. Laschi and J. Bongard, "Material properties affect ...

and etc.


As for Production stage.

It's the same.

There is Disney Lab. MIT lab.

All kinds of university professors that create bionic things.

Like "artifical octopuses" or "artifical snakes", or "artifical sharks"... and etc.


Question is...

ARE their vision holistic enough?
To percieve not some small "inventions/improvments/innovations"???

But to propose a roadmap, and marry it with industrial capabilities.

Most probabaly... it will happen. Sooner or later. And without me.

But... I think that my amount of ideas -- IS such good first closer up.

Am I too ambitious? Delirious? :-)))

Q said...

err... "As any inventor... it seems that U have tunnel vision"

That was *I* have a tunnel vision. I can see it in myself only because of all previous examples of inventors who was too enamoured in their inventions to see rough Reality beside em. ;-P

Sorry for mistypings too.



\\We only lack the one key ingredient...

Well... :-))) it would smouth the ride.
But would not remove ANY obstacles or stepping stones, I profess...

And also... there is that problem -- that to have em, one need to compete for em with obvious crooks -- who want only em and not results, and therefore are much more proficient with sleezing in with their proposals. @@

-FJ the Dangerous and Extreme MAGA Jew said...

Okay, I'm about halfway through the first video and I'm starting (I think) to grasp your concept (or at least one of them)....

Q said...

- Evolution can happen automatically without planning or oversight under certain conditions.

Like

Evolpedal 3D: Walking Evolution Simulation by Evol Games - Itch.io
evolgames.itch.io › Games › Simulation › Free
Evolpedal 3D is a walking evolution simulator where human-like lifeforms learn to walk by any means necessary. This is based on my other game, Evolpedal, ...

Or.

Evolution Simulator | MinuteLabs.io
labs.minutelabs.io › evolution-simulator
Watch little blob creatures evolve under natural selection!


Even.


Evolution - Apps on Google Play
play.google.com › store › apps › details › id=c...
Use joints, bones and muscles to build creatures that are only limited by your imagination. Watch how the combination of a neural network and a genetic ...

-FJ the Dangerous and Extreme MAGA Jew said...

I'll need some time to finish absorbing this post & thread.

Q said...

That is benefit of blog in compare with chat or e-mail -- no need to hurry. ;-)

-FJ the Dangerous and Extreme MAGA Jew said...

True, that. Thanks for giving me more time to explore this more deeply.

Q said...

Well... I tryed to devise what else I could extend my explanations with... but, without your question -- that what was already said is pretty much urbi et orbi -- which probably will be blown out in moment, after your first attempt to poke it with a stick of argumentative doubts. ;-)

Q said...

We really are from two different Worlds.

That is what Google gives me in response to "theory of invention".

Heroic theory of invention and scientific development - Wikipedia
en.wikipedia.org › wiki › Heroic_theory_of_in...
The heroic theory of invention and scientific development is the view that the principal authors of inventions and scientific discoveries are unique heroic ...

:-)))))))))))))))))))

Do I need to be more specific and precise -- to mention THAT THAT IS *NOT* what I have told above.

But still... pretty funny. Heroic... ehm. :-)


Well... other links -- not less hilarious. :-)))

Like

[PDF] Theories of Invention - H-France
h-france.net › rude › wp-content › uploads › 2019/08 › Ashley
Fin de Siècle Theories of Invention: Originality and Chance. Susan A. Ashley. Genius caught the attention of fin de siècle thinkers.

Q said...

Have no questions? :-(

-FJ the Dangerous and Extreme MAGA Jew said...

Not intelligent ones... so far.

Q said...

Yet one "On Edge" movies.

Of type "only in America". ;-)

Dirty cop, who fled from Sing Sing through fake funerals of his father, standing behind window of central NewArk hotel faking suicide, with all due: crowd, cops, reporeters on helicopters :-))), while his acompleces masterfully robbing bank... err, fat nasty shark, of his Monarch diamond... to prove him innocent of robbing that fat nasty shark off that Monarch...

Happy-the-Ending, ensured.