.

And by a prudent flight and cunning save A life which valour could not, from the grave. A better buckler I can soon regain, But who can get another life again? Archilochus

Friday, April 7, 2023

Post-Human Post-Haste

 

Slavoj Zizek, "The Post-Human Desert"

Unlike past technological innovations, artificial intelligence is not about humanity’s mastery over nature, but rather about relinquishing control altogether. Whether we realize it or not, the old anthropocentric arrogance that technology enables may soon give way to human irrelevance and meaninglessness.

LJUBLJANA – The Future of Life Institute’s open letter demanding a six-month precautionary pause on artificial-intelligence development has already been signed by thousands of high-profile figures, including Elon Musk. The signatories worry that AI labs are “locked in an out-of-control race” to develop and deploy increasingly powerful systems that no one – including their creators – can understand, predict, or control.

What explains this outburst of panic among a certain cohort of elites? Control and regulation are obviously at the center of the story, but whose? During the proposed half-year pause when humanity can take stock of the risks, who will stand for humanity? Since AI labs in China, India, and Russia will continue their work (perhaps in secret), a global public debate on the issue is inconceivable.

Still, we should consider what is at stake, here. In his 2015 book, Homo Deus, the historian Yuval Harari predicted that the most likely outcome of AI would be a radical division – much stronger than the class divide – within human society. Soon enough, biotechnology and computer algorithms will join their powers in producing “bodies, brains, and minds,” resulting in a widening gap “between those who know how to engineer bodies and brains and those who do not.” In such a world, “those who ride the train of progress will acquire divine abilities of creation and destruction, while those left behind will face extinction.”

The panic reflected in the AI letter stems from the fear that even those who are on the “train of progress” will be unable to steer it. Our current digital feudal masters are scared. What they want, however, is not public debate, but rather an agreement among governments and tech corporations to keep power where it belongs.

A massive expansion of AI capabilities is a serious threat to those in power – including those who develop, own, and control AI. It points to nothing less than the end of capitalism as we know it, manifest in the prospect of a self-reproducing AI system that will need less and less input from human agents (algorithmic market trading is merely the first step in this direction). The choice left to us will be between a new form of communism and uncontrollable chaos.

The new chatbots will offer many lonely (or not so lonely) people endless evenings of friendly dialogue about movies, books, cooking, or politics. To reuse an old metaphor of mine, what people will get is the AI version of decaffeinated coffee or sugar-free soda: a friendly neighbor with no skeletons in its closet, an Other that will simply accommodate itself to your own needs. There is a structure of fetishist disavowal here: “I know very well that I am not talking to a real person, but it feels as though I am – and without any of the accompanying risks!”

In any case, a close examination of the AI letter shows it to be yet another attempt at prohibiting the impossible. This is an old paradox: it is impossible for us, as humans, to participate in a post-human future, so we must prohibit its development. To orient ourselves around these technologies, we should ask Lenin’s old question: Freedom for whom to do what? In what sense were we free before? Were we not already controlled much more than we realized? Instead of complaining about the threat to our freedom and dignity in the future, perhaps we should first consider what freedom means now. Until we do this, we will act like hysterics who, according to the French psychoanalyst Jacques Lacan, are desperate for a master, but only one that we can dominate.

The futurist Ray Kurzweil predicts that, owing to the exponential nature of technological progress, we will soon be dealing with “spiritual” machines that will not only display all the signs of self-awareness but also far surpass human intelligence. But one should not confuse this “post-human” stance for the paradigmatically modern preoccupation with achieving total technological domination over nature. What we are witnessing, instead, is a dialectical reversal of this process.

Today’s “post-human” sciences are no longer about domination. Their credo is surprise: what kind of contingent, unplanned emergent properties might “black-box” AI models acquire for themselves? No one knows, and therein lies the thrill – or, indeed, the banality – of the entire enterprise.

Hence, earlier this century, the French philosopher-engineer Jean-Pierre Dupuy discerned in the new robotics, genetics, nanotechnology, artificial life, and AI a strange inversion of the traditional anthropocentric arrogance that technology enables:

“How are we to explain that science became such a ‘risky’ activity that, according to some top scientists, it poses today the principal threat to the survival of humanity? Some philosophers reply to this question by saying that Descartes’s dream – ‘to become master and possessor of nature’ – has turned wrong, and that we should urgently return to the ‘mastery of mastery.’ They have understood nothing. They don’t see that the technology profiling itself at our horizon through ‘convergence’ of all disciplines aims precisely at nonmastery. The engineer of tomorrow will not be a sorcerer’s apprentice because of his negligence or ignorance, but by choice.”

Humanity is creating its own god or devil. While the outcome cannot be predicted, one thing is certain. If something resembling “post-humanity” emerges as a collective fact, our worldview will lose all three of its defining, overlapping subjects: humanity, nature, and divinity. Our identity as humans can exist only against the background of impenetrable nature, but if life becomes something that can be fully manipulated by technology, it will lose its “natural” character. A fully controlled existence is one bereft of meaning, not to mention serendipity and wonder.

The same, of course, holds for any sense of the divine. The human experience of “god” has meaning only from the standpoint of human finitude and mortality. Once we become homo deus and create properties that seem “supernatural” from our old human standpoint, “gods” as we knew them will disappear. The question is what, if anything, will be left. Will we worship the AIs that we created?

There is every reason to worry that tech-gnostic visions of a post-human world are ideological fantasies obfuscating the abyss that awaits us. Needless to say, it would take more than a six-month pause to ensure that humans do not become irrelevant, and their lives meaningless, in the not-too-distant future.

45 comments:

Q said...

Oh... now I see who that Zizek is... he is neo-luddit.

Too dim. :-))) If he'd be not that deem, he could ask a question, or two.

Like... why we do not see difference in levels of intelligence among humans?
Why size of the brain do not make holder a genius immediately?

-FJ the Dangerous and Extreme MAGA Jew said...

lol! We don't, because to acknowledge differences in intelligence/ IQ would mean we'd also have to recognize other differences (like strength or athleticism), and so the races and sexes couldn't all be equal and we couldn't use "simple statiscs" to prove "discrimination."

-FJ the Dangerous and Extreme MAGA Jew said...

...or condemn Sir Francis Galton, the "racist" (eugenicist) inventor of statistics.

-FJ the Dangerous and Extreme MAGA Jew said...

btw - Zizek is warning about not being able to control the tech, and you call him a Luddite. Isn't that exactly the "problem" with your tech? There isn't enought computing power to simulate the point at which your tech "evolves" and "escapes" human control ala "Skynet"

-FJ the Dangerous and Extreme MAGA Jew said...

...or do you withold one of evolutions five ingredients for success (or install a kill switch)?

Q said...

\\lol! We don't, because to acknowledge differences in intelligence/ IQ would mean we'd also have to recognize other differences (like strength or athleticism), and so the races and sexes couldn't all be equal and we couldn't use "simple statiscs" to prove "discrimination."

Quit it. :-)
Why we have Olympic Games?
All that honorifics in academia?

But well... do you think we really CAN call it that way?

That there is same difference in intelligence as between Denny DeVito and Shuva-tian phisique in that "Twins" flick??? Really? ;-)


\\btw - Zizek is warning about not being able to control the tech, and you call him a Luddite.

Yes. Because that is not the way to control technologies. ;-P
If you want to control -- set em free. ;-) And then, embrace!



To the point.

Watched "Good Will Hunting" today. ;-)
By a chance... though knew general plot and all. Nice comedy? Isn't it. (in a sense of "Martian": "You will start to learn combinatorics and limits".... like it was possible to solve that Fourier Series Problem(WAT?) without such basics)

But well, Roby W is priceless. And heartwarming.

Does it counts as +1 to that "The Edge" for understanding of your culture?

Oh... those 90th... and WHY time didn't stopped then? ;-)

PS By the way -- how is more correct to spell it? good (will hunting) OR (good will) hunting? ;-)

-FJ the Dangerous and Extreme MAGA Jew said...

\\lol! We don't, because to acknowledge differences in intelligence/ IQ would mean we'd also have to recognize other differences (like strength or athleticism), and so the races and sexes couldn't all be equal and we couldn't use "simple statistics" to prove "discrimination."
/Quit it. :-)
Why we have Olympic Games?
All that honorifics in academia?


Why have Paralympics? Why is GPA not printed on the Academic degree? Why does Jill Biden get to call herself a "Doctor"?


But well... do you think we really CAN call it that way?
That there is same difference in intelligence as between Denny DeVito and Shuva-tian phisique in that "Twins" flick??? Really? ;-)


Society is arborial, but pretends to be rhizomatic. It's an "unwritten rule".


\\btw - Zizek is warning about not being able to control the tech, and you call him a Luddite.
/Yes. Because that is not the way to control technologies. ;-P
If you want to control -- set em free. ;-) And then, embrace!


Ah, COVID, Avian Flu... just set them FREE! ;)


/To the point.
Watched "Good Will Hunting" today. ;-)
By a chance... though knew general plot and all. Nice comedy? Isn't it. (in a sense of "Martian": "You will start to learn combinatorics and limits".... like it was possible to solve that Fourier Series Problem(WAT?) without such basics)
But well, Roby W is priceless. And heartwarming.
Does it counts as +1 to that "The Edge" for understanding of your culture?
Oh... those 90th... and WHY time didn't stopped then? ;-)


Sorry, I missed you point. :(


PS By the way -- how is more correct to spell it? good (will hunting) OR (good will) hunting? ;-)

Both ways work. ;)

Q said...

\\Why have Paralympics? Why is GPA not printed on the Academic degree? Why does Jill Biden get to call herself a "Doctor"?

Non sequtur... but, if you REALLY want me to answer all this? Call me... ;-P my number is N.M.P.


\\Society is arborial, but pretends to be rhizomatic. It's an "unwritten rule".

And how it relates to question of intellect levels?



\\Sorry, I missed you point. :(

Which exactly? :-(
I am guilty, I packed em too much in that small paragraph.

About "Good Will Hunting":

1) Are you share my playful description of it as... "comedy"?

2) Well... for the very least, idea to show "high math" why talking about "combinatoric and limits"... or, I do not know something, and there is some profund breakthroughs in that spheras?

3) Robin Williams... isn't he (was :-((() nice?

4) Does it tells something about your culture? (I can assume that,given that amount of trivia mentioned there... but cannot be certain... and of course, I cannot judge it from your perspective)

5) Do you have any nostalgia about decade... roughly from 1991 till 1999? (and all millenuim to boot)

*) I watched it in translation, of course. And there that "Good" was translated as "Smart"... but I dunno, can it have that meaning?.. was it intended to?



\\Both ways work. ;)

I know it... question was -- was it intended to? ;-)

-FJ the Dangerous and Extreme MAGA Jew said...

////Like... why we do not see difference in levels of intelligence among humans?
Why size of the brain do not make holder a genius immediately?
\\Society is arborial, but pretends to be rhizomatic. It's an "unwritten rule".
/And how it relates to question of intellect levels?


How many people who are less intelligent to you do you call "stupid" to their face? How many people more intelligent that you call you "stupid" to your face? Unwritten rule: Don't do that. Respect other people for their "human" qualities. "Intelligence" isn't everything. It does not, by itself, confer "superiority". Often, that is determined by AQ (athletic quotient... fight/ battle ala Achilles/ Hector).


\\Sorry, I missed you point. :(
/Which exactly? :-(
I am guilty, I packed em too much in that small paragraph.
About "Good Will Hunting":
1) Are you share my playful description of it as... "comedy"?


There were many funny parts... and some serious parts.


2) Well... for the very least, idea to show "high math" why talking about "combinatoric and limits"... or, I do not know something, and there is some profund breakthroughs in that spheras?

I doubt it, but most "good" math is old.


3) Robin Williams... isn't he (was :-((() nice?

He showed a lot of "wit" derived through actual "experience" vice "theory", and perhaps in the general story arc, revealed its' "superiority" in a life well lived over a life well read.

(cont)

-FJ the Dangerous and Extreme MAGA Jew said...

4) Does it tells something about your culture? (I can assume that,given that amount of trivia mentioned there... but cannot be certain... and of course, I cannot judge it from your perspective)

Does my answer to #3? Our culture values "authenticity", and there are both profound and negative aspects to this cultural valuation. It has a certain "ethics" (Charles Taylor, "The Ethics of Authenticity") that the movie reveals. Group membership often gets reduced to certain very inauthentic "signs" of this so-called "authenticity (or as Will quips, "at least I won't be unoriginal")." It's perhaps only a means of coping with a social order which disguises hierarchies, where you "boss" socializes with you as if he's your "friend"... and NOT you "boss". The post-modern "father" problem. From the Jowett summary of Plato's "Republic" There remains still the finest and fairest of all men and all States—tyranny and the tyrant. Tyranny springs from democracy much as democracy springs from oligarchy. Both arise from excess; the one from excess of wealth, the other from excess of freedom. ‘The great natural good of life,’ says the democrat, ‘is freedom.’ And this exclusive love of freedom and regardlessness of everything else, is the cause of the change from democracy to tyranny. The State demands the strong wine of freedom, and unless her rulers give her a plentiful draught, punishes and insults them; equality and fraternity of governors and governed is the approved principle. Anarchy is the law, not of the State only, but of private houses, and extends even to the animals. Father and son, citizen and foreigner, teacher and pupil, old and young, are all on a level; fathers and teachers fear their sons and pupils, and the wisdom of the young man is a match for the elder, and the old imitate the jaunty manners of the young because they are afraid of being thought morose. Slaves are on a level with their masters and mistresses, and there is no difference between men and women. Nay, the very animals in a democratic State have a freedom which is unknown in other places. The she-dogs are as good as their she-mistresses, and horses and asses march along with dignity and run their noses against anybody who comes in their way. ‘That has often been my experience.’ At last the citizens become so sensitive that they cannot endure the yoke of laws, written or unwritten; they would have no man call himself their master. Such is the glorious beginning of things out of which tyranny springs. ‘Glorious, indeed; but what is to follow?’ The ruin of oligarchy is the ruin of democracy; for there is a law of contraries; the excess of freedom passes into the excess of slavery, and the greater the freedom the greater the slavery.

-FJ the Dangerous and Extreme MAGA Jew said...

5) Do you have any nostalgia about decade... roughly from 1991 till 1999? (and all millenuim to boot)

I was busy then, working (first at Martin Marietta [now Lockheed -Martin] and then at GSFC) and raising 3 young kids. It's about when I started changing my focus from "history" to "philosophy" thanks to Will Durant's book, "The Story of Philosophy". I spent a lot of time waiting for my kids at theater rehearsals, dance classes, voice lessons, etc... so I read books as I waited. So not nostalgia, really. Regret? Maybe some.


/*) I watched it in translation, of course. And there that "Good" was translated as "Smart"... but I dunno, can it have that meaning?.. was it intended to?

It kinds of dilutes the message of the film... that "good" is more than "smart" or "useful".


\\Both ways work. ;)
/I know it... question was -- was it intended to? ;-)


I missed the reference comparing it to "The Edge", specifically... "Does it counts as +1 to that "The Edge" for understanding of your culture?
Oh... those 90th... and WHY time didn't stopped then?


90th???? ... time didn't stop????

-FJ the Dangerous and Extreme MAGA Jew said...

btw - IMHO, "authenticity" is highly over-rated as an "ethical" value.

-FJ the Dangerous and Extreme MAGA Jew said...

...cuz I like to unoriginally quote "old books".

-FJ the Dangerous and Extreme MAGA Jew said...

So what is "the good"? Is it "pleasure" (jouissance) or "Intellect" (Plato, "Philebus")

from Jowett's summary... Philebus affirmed pleasure to be the good, and assumed them to be one nature; I affirmed that they were two natures, and declared that knowledge was more akin to the good than pleasure. I said that the two together were more eligible than either taken singly; and to this we adhere. Reason intimates, as at first, that we should seek the good not in the unmixed life, but in the mixed.

The cup is ready, waiting to be mingled, and here are two fountains, one of honey, the other of pure water, out of which to make the fairest possible mixture. There are pure and impure pleasures—pure and impure sciences. Let us consider the sections of each which have the most of purity and truth; to admit them all indiscriminately would be dangerous. First we will take the pure sciences; but shall we mingle the impure—the art which uses the false rule and the false measure? That we must, if we are any of us to find our way home; man cannot live upon pure mathematics alone. And must I include music, which is admitted to be guess-work? 'Yes, you must, if human life is to have any humanity.' Well, then, I will open the door and let them all in; they shall mingle in an Homeric 'meeting of the waters.' And now we turn to the pleasures; shall I admit them? 'Admit first of all the pure pleasures; secondly, the necessary.' And what shall we say about the rest? First, ask the pleasures—they will be too happy to dwell with wisdom. Secondly, ask the arts and sciences—they reply that the excesses of intemperance are the ruin of them; and that they would rather only have the pleasures of health and temperance, which are the handmaidens of virtue. But still we want truth? That is now added; and so the argument is complete, and may be compared to an incorporeal law, which is to hold fair rule over a living body. And now we are at the vestibule of the good, in which there are three chief elements—truth, symmetry, and beauty. These will be the criterion of the comparative claims of pleasure and wisdom.

Which has the greater share of truth? Surely wisdom; for pleasure is the veriest impostor in the world, and the perjuries of lovers have passed into a proverb.

Which of symmetry? Wisdom again; for nothing is more immoderate than pleasure.

Which of beauty? Once more, wisdom; for pleasure is often unseemly, and the greatest pleasures are put out of sight.

Not pleasure, then, ranks first in the scale of good, but measure, and eternal harmony.

Second comes the symmetrical and beautiful and perfect.

Third, mind and wisdom.

Fourth, sciences and arts and true opinions.

Fifth, painless pleasures.

Of a sixth class, I have no more to say. Thus, pleasure and mind may both r

Q said...

\\How many people who are less intelligent to you do you call "stupid" to their face?

You didn't payed attention, aren't you? While I already mentioned it, couple of times.
My stance, and its Lem's one -- that there is NO levels of intelligence. ;-)

How we can "measure it" -- that is big question.

But not with simple numbers (even if quaternions ;-P), for sure.



\\ How many people more intelligent that you call you "stupid" to your face?

E-e-e-ehm???
With honorifics to base their stance on? Or REALLY more intelligent? ;-)


\\There were many funny parts... and some serious parts.

Yep. Roby W's dia... monologues.

More elaborated in "What Dreams May Come" (1998)



\\I doubt it, but most "good" math is old.

Hmmm?
And "new math" is bad?
Like that same strings. ;-)

Well... never mind. I cannot claim being big expert in new math... just, interessant


\\Our culture values "authenticity", and there are both profound and negative aspects to this cultural valuation. It has a certain "ethics" (Charles Taylor, "The Ethics of Authenticity") that the movie reveals

That's why I like sci fi. ;-)
Van Vogt's "The Cataaa". Short text.

Very Lemesque. ;-)


\\Tyranny springs from democracy much as democracy springs from oligarchy.

You know... I'm not sure about it...

Maybe in your hemisphere it is like that... dunno, doubt it.

But all my experience -- it all from people's nature -- habit to live in a tight traditional communas. Where lives of members -- dispensable. Only "live" of a WHOLE -- important.
And that is not about good or bad. That is about survival.
(again Van Vogt... this time "Voyage of the Space Beagle" -- version of "psychohistory" there, exactly -- but well, all story is like background, an illustration for it, in several examples)


\\It kinds of dilutes the message of the film... that "good" is more than "smart" or "useful".

I Though So Too!

Still... how it he "useful" -- with last minutes of film given (if not your Hollywood love toward "happyending", it could be decent european drama mov... film... with a car crash ;-))


\\90th???? ... time didn't stop????

90-x?

Isn't that is what your sighs about times and places "gone with a wind" about?

Well, I tryed to think in sync with that feeling.
And well... 90th/90-x are quite distinguishable... in my eyes.


\\There are pure and impure pleasures—pure and impure sciences.

Dunno what it could mean.

Maybe if it'll be written with chinese hierogliphs... it could be more easy to grasp...


\\'Admit first of all the pure pleasures; secondly, the necessary.' And what shall we say about the rest?

I think... I am more like buddhist... in respect to that. ;-P


Q said...

;-P

-FJ the Dangerous and Extreme MAGA Jew said...

Intelligence preserves/ retains/ and embodies the most options for its' continued future survival. That's my opinion. Isn't survival evolution's end?

Nietzsche, "The Gay Science" GS 110

Origins of Knowledge. Throughout immense stretches of time the intellect produced nothing but errors; some of them proved to be useful and preservative of the species: he who fell in with them, or inherited them, waged the battle for himself and his offspring with better success. Those erroneous articles of faith which were successively transmitted by inheritance, and have finally become almost the property and stock of the human species, are, for example, the following: that there are enduring things, that there are equal things, that there are things, substances, and bodies, that a thing is what it appears, that our will is free that what is good for me is also good absolutely. It was only very late that the deniers, doubters of such propositions came forward - it was only very late that truth made its appearance as the most impotent form of knowledge. It seemed as if it were impossible to get along with truth, our organism was adapted for the very opposite; all its higher functions, the perceptions of the senses, and in general every kind of sensation, cooperated with those primevally embodied, fundamental errors. Moreover, those propositions became the very standards of knowledge according to which the "true "and the "false" were determined - throughout the whole domain of pure logic. The strength of conceptions does not, therefore, depend on their degree of truth, but on their antiquity, their embodiment, their character as conditions of life. Where life and knowledge seemed to conflict, there has never been serious contention; denial and doubt have there been regarded as madness. The exceptional thinkers like the Eleatics, who, in spite of this, advanced and maintained the antitheses of the natural errors, believed that it was possible also to live these counterparts: it was they who devised the sage as the man of immutability, impersonality and universality of intuition, as one and all at the same time, with a special faculty for that reverse kind of knowledge; they were of the belief that their knowledge was at the same time the principle of life. To be able to affirm all this, however, they had to deceive themselves concerning their own condition: they had to attribute to themselves impersonality and unchanging permanence, they had to mistake the nature of the philosophic individual, deny the force of the impulses in cognition, and conceive of reason generally as an entirely free and self-originating activity; they kept their eyes shut to the fact that they also had reached their doctrines in contradiction to valid methods, or through their longing for repose or for exclusive possession or for domination.

-FJ the Dangerous and Extreme MAGA Jew said...

(cont)

The subtler development of sincerity and of skepticism finally made these men impossible; their life also, and their judgments, turned out to be dependent on the primeval impulses and fundamental errors of all sentient beings. The subtler sincerity and skepticism arose wherever two antithetical maxims appeared to be applicable to life, because both of them were compatible with the fundamental errors; where, therefore, there could be contention concerning a higher or lower degree of utility for life; and likewise where new maxims proved to be, not necessarily useful, but at least not injurious, as expressions of an intellectual impulse to play a game that was like all games innocent and happy The human brain was gradually filled with such judgments and convictions; and in this tangled skein there arose ferment, strife and lust for power. Not only utility and delight, but every kind of impulse took part in the struggle for "truths"; the intellectual struggle became a business, an attraction, a calling, a duty, an honor; cognizing and striving for the true finally arranged themselves as needs among other needs. From that moment not only belief and conviction, but also examination, denial, distrust and contradiction became forces; all "evil "instincts were subordinated to knowledge, were placed in its service, and acquired the prestige of the permitted, the honored, the useful, and finally the appearance and innocence of the good. Knowledge thus became a portion of life itself, and as life it became a continually growing power; until finally the cognitions and those primeval, fundamental errors clashed with each other, both as life, both as power, both in the same man. The thinker is now the being in whom the impulse to truth and those life-preserving errors wage their first conflict, now that the impulse to truth has also proved itself to be a life-preserving power. In comparison with the importance of this conflict everything else is indifferent; the final question concerning the conditions of life is here raised, and the first attempt is here made to answer it by experiment. How far is truth susceptible of embodiment - that is the question, that is the experiment.their embodiment, their character as conditions of life.

Q said...

That is... superficial observation.

-FJ the Dangerous and Extreme MAGA Jew said...

If you say that life's purpose is to self-actualize, I'll slap you.

Q said...

Why should I? %)

While I even have problem to grasp what that remark was about...

Thersites said...

Maslow. Survival (Physiological) is the Fundamental Need... and then try and self-actualize (Top Need)

Q said...

That is... just a convinient schema. Not a law.

For us humans, for all Humankind -- self-actualization == survival.

Or... how do you see human life... 1000 years since? 1.000.000? Billion? %)

-FJ the Dangerous and Extreme MAGA Jew said...

Frankly, given recent experience with the Trans movement, I'd say humankind has a struggle ahead (body modification/ implants/ genetic manipulation/ post-humanism).

"How far is truth susceptible of embodiment " of "tech" for inter-generational "memory" of useful "adaptations".

-FJ the Dangerous and Extreme MAGA Jew said...

btw - Are you familiar with Struldbruggs?

Q said...

Naah.
And naah.

Q said...

\\Frankly, given recent experience with the Trans movement, I'd say humankind has a struggle ahead (body modification/ implants/ genetic manipulation/ post-humanism).

Well... Lem ;-P
He was talking about it... in 60-x.

-FJ the Dangerous and Extreme MAGA Jew said...

So did Jonathan Swift in the early 1700s....

-FJ the Dangerous and Extreme MAGA Jew said...

:P

Q said...

\\So did Jonathan Swift in the early 1700s....

Not sure that I know/understand this...

-FJ the Dangerous and Extreme MAGA Jew said...

How do I see mankind in 1,000 years? How did Swift view Laputans?

Mankind doesn't make "rational" decisions. They go wherever the "tech" takes them. And most of that tech comes out of the Grand Academy of Projectors at Lagado.

-FJ the Dangerous and Extreme MAGA Jew said...

And as Marshall McLuhan said, ""We shape our tools and thereafter, they shape us"."

-FJ the Dangerous and Extreme MAGA Jew said...

Men are mostly Yahoos, not Houyhnhnms.

-FJ the Dangerous and Extreme MAGA Jew said...

:P

-FJ the Dangerous and Extreme MAGA Jew said...

Are you familiar of the myth of Latona and the Lycean peasants?

Q said...

\\Mankind doesn't make "rational" decisions. They go wherever the "tech" takes them. And most of that tech comes out of the Grand Academy of Projectors at Lagado.

IMHO, that is exactly the question Lem asked -- can we state goals, and achieve em rationally?

And I hope you understand -- that answer can be achived only experimentally. ;-)

Q said...

\\Men are mostly Yahoos, not Houyhnhnms.


Well... Houyhnhnms was doing nothing that humans... well yahoos doing.

So, it falls under rubric of venerating life and people in foreign country... by a tourist.
Who saw only superficial, parade side of that life.
And do not know (and don't care) about back side. ;-)

-FJ the Dangerous and Extreme MAGA Jew said...

Indeed. Are you a Big-Ender or Little-Ender (Lilliput)?

-FJ the Dangerous and Extreme MAGA Jew said...

:P

Q said...

\\Indeed. Are you a Big-Ender or Little-Ender (Lilliput)?

I'm already on the brink of becaming bored... from bikering anout such things with Derpy. ;-P


\\Germany is focused on metaphysics and poetry.

:-)))))))

In time BETWEEN they are raging war-machine berserks.


Well... what can I say. High-brow talks. Too far, too incomprehensible for a such miserly prol, me. :-)))

Joe Conservative said...

As we say here in America... :P

Joe Conservative said...

:)

Q said...

And here is how they say in Rasha. ;-P

Dear subscribers and guests of the channel! Yesterday's stuffing of telegram channels, citing a source, about the preparation of a "direct line" with Russian President Vladimir Putin on June 8 and Peskov's cutesy coquetry with uncertainty on the date, this is of course a somewhat hasty announcement of the return of the head of state to communicate in a similar format. Until June 8, a good month and a half, and their president still has to live. The previous two therapies that the president underwent this year did not give the expected results, which forced the attending physicians to slightly change the treatment strategy, and on Saturday a new, adjusted, stage of treatment with new drugs began. For the last four days, in events where Putin should participate, he has been replaced by a double, not in the most successful way, but still. The president himself is under the control of doctors most of the time, and so far he is trying not to overload himself with state affairs. Putin probably had a nervous breakdown last night. At about 21.40, Moscow time, the presidential guards heard strange sounds from the room where the president was. Putin did not answer a knock on the door, attempts to determine what was happening in other ways did not bring results, and after spending about seven minutes, the guards, calling the doctors on duty, decided to enter the room where the president was. Putin sat on the floor near the sofa and wept hysterically. He was wearing only a wet white T-shirt, which he probably tried to take off, and a black sock on his right leg, next to him lay a diaper torn to pieces, which Putin has been using constantly lately. To all appeals to him, the president practically did not react, continuing to cry sobbing. Approximately 10-15 minutes later, after trying to find out from the president what had happened and consultations of the doctors on duty with the president's attending physicians, with whom they promptly got in touch, it was decided to inject, apparently, with an antipsychotic drug. A few minutes after the injection, the president felt better and was washed, changed and put to bed. It is not yet clear whether this state of Putin is a side effect from the use of new drugs or something else, but it is unlikely that such behavior of the head of state during the direct line will inspire Russian citizens to continue to endure the regime. You can, of course, release a double, but lately, as the president says, "is bringing a blizzard", and you look at him on June 8 on the upcoming new year.

via Google-translate. ;-P

-FJ the Dangerous and Extreme MAGA Jew said...

You watch too many movies... ;P

Q said...

I???

That is not my text. ;-P

That is how we all (well, most of us) living today.

Non-consciously allowing spree of memo-viruses...