Slavoj Zizek, "The politics of denial in the war in Ukraine"
The wife of a drunkard is in bed with her lover when her husband unexpectedly stumbles in and climbs under the sheets. “Darling, I’m so drunk that I see six legs at the bottom of our bed,” he says. “Don’t worry,” she replies, “Just walk over to the door and look again from there.” When he does, he is relieved. “You’re right, there are only four legs!”
This joke may be vulgar, but it touches on an important phenomenon. Generally, you expect to see a situation more clearly from the outside than when you are immersed in it, but sometimes, it is precisely this external position that blinds you to the truth. In the joke, the husband’s exclusion (standing by the door) creates a false sense of inclusion in which he confuses the lover’s legs with his own.
One finds a similar dynamic in the West’s support for Ukraine. We turn a blind eye to the fact that a domestic clique of oligarchs would likely emerge as the biggest winner of the Ukrainian struggle. Yet we should not be surprised if post-war Ukraine turns out similar to pre-war Ukraine, a place corrupted by oligarchy and colonized by big Western corporations that control the best land and natural resources. While we make our own sacrifices for the war effort, we fail to see that the gains would be appropriated by others, just like the drunkard who mistakes another man’s feet for his own — perhaps because, deep down, he does not want to acknowledge the truth.
Can we avoid this trap? On June 20 to 22, the pan-European organization Europe, a Patient Association held discussions in London on the need to protect Ukrainian communities from economic exploitation after the war. Such initiatives are needed more than ever, because support for Ukrainian defense must go hand in hand with ecological and social-justice concerns. All are equally important for the country’s future. For example, we can support Ukraine fully only if we also free it from the grip of the fossil-fuel industry, which relies on Russian oil.
The combination of military, environmental and socioeconomic struggles is becoming increasingly difficult to ignore. Matters of war and ecology collided dramatically with the destruction of the Kakhovka Dam near Kherson early last month.
However, Ukraine is hardly alone. About the same time, wildfires in Canada ended up smothering New York City under a cloud of brown smoke, giving the city’s residents a taste of what people across the Global South know all too well. While paying lip service to the climate crisis and ecological breakdown, rich Western countries continue to do little about them.
This blinkered perspective is not confined to the right and the corporate sector. Many on the left today claim to support peace while favoring compromise with brutal, revisionist authoritarian regimes.
To understand this “pacifist” opposition, we should return to the situation at the beginning of World War II, when there was also a right-left coalition opposing US involvement in foreign wars. Then as now, the “pacifists” argued that the situation in Europe did not concern America. They harbored strange sympathies for the aggressor, and they claimed that going to war would merely enrich the military-industrial complex. When Nazi Germany told the UK, in the summer of 1940, that it wanted peace, they thought Britain should have accepted Nazi leader Adolf Hitler’s generous offer.
Like all good lies, this one contains some grains of truth. The US conservative commentator Patrick J. Buchanan offered a version of this argument in 2008, arguing that if then-British prime minister Winston Churchill had accepted Hitler’s 1940 offer, the Holocaust would have been less severe.
Moreover, just as Churchill led the British Empire to ruin by causing unnecessary wars with Germany, the argument goes, US president George W. Bush led the US to ruin by following Churchill’s example. Like many on the left, Buchanan does not believe the US should offer guarantees to countries where it has no vital interests.
One hears a new variation of this motif in the context of the Ukraine war. Supposedly, the Soviet Union’s disintegration had the same effect as the Versailles Treaty: It created a predictable desire for revenge against the victors of the last war.
As in the past, this new right-left alliance is guided by conspiracy theories, like those peddled about vaccines by Robert F. Kennedy Jr and former US president Donald Trump’s followers. It denounces anti-COVID-19 measures as an instrument of control. It rejects helping Ukraine, since that would serve the NATO military-industrial complex. In a model case of denial, it dismisses the biggest threats we face as mere ploys by big corporations to exploit the working class.
The politics of denial — of seeing only four legs — is, of course, overtly optimistic. It implies that we do not have to address any new dangers; we can carry on as if they do not exist. It is a product of populism on both the left and the right, and it is one of the main reasons why we are now in a “democratic recession.”
As Grace Blakely of Tribune observes, “Authoritarianism is on the rise despite the liberal prediction that the spread of free markets would result in more democracy — that’s because capitalism would always defend social hierarchies against the threat of economic equality.”
One can take this claim further: The threat to democracy comes also from the false populist resistance to corporate capitalism, which is epitomized by the “pacifist” left’s rejection of support for Ukraine on the grounds that it would “merely” benefit defense contractors. After all, Ukraine has already long been colonized by Western corporations, and only through a “green,” equitable reconstruction would it ever be liberated.
To escape our predicament, we cannot just cling to multi-party liberal democracy. Rather, we must find new ways of building social consensus and establishing active links between political parties and civil society. The immediate task is to oppose the new left-right populists, and that may require aligning with exponents of capitalist liberal democracy — just as WWII-era Communists fought alongside Western “imperialist” democracies against fascism, knowing full well that imperialism was their ultimate enemy. These were strange bedfellows, but they at least could see what was really going on.
h/t - Gert
Why Zizek supports this crazy war and characterizes the anti-war movement as populist denialism and who believe in wild conspiracy theories is beyond me. He's definitely got his own case of DiEM25 fetishistic denialism going on.
53 comments:
Correctly stated bias... but unable to apply it to itself.
Clearly not phylosopher. And not any wiseman. Yawn.
\\For example, we can support Ukraine fully only if we also free it from the grip of the fossil-fuel industry, which relies on Russian oil.
Psychological transmission, or... am I use correct term?
\\While paying lip service to the climate crisis and ecological breakdown, rich Western countries continue to do little about them.
BS Demn Propaganda.
\\Many on the left today claim to support peace while favoring compromise with brutal, revisionist authoritarian regimes.
As ever. :-)))
\\Then as now, the “pacifists” argued that the situation in Europe did not concern America. They harbored strange sympathies for the aggressor...
Yap.
Only, why it "strange"? ;-P
Knowing no History to boot.
\\Moreover, just as Churchill led the British Empire to ruin by causing unnecessary wars with Germany, the argument goes, US president George W. Bush led the US to ruin by following Churchill’s example. Like many on the left, Buchanan does not believe the US should offer guarantees to countries where it has no vital interests.
And you too, Brutus? ;-)
\\It rejects helping Ukraine, since that would serve the NATO military-industrial complex.
Which 99% is USA MIL. ;-P
\\As Grace Blakely of Tribune observes, “Authoritarianism is on the rise despite the liberal prediction that the spread of free markets would result in more democracy — that’s because capitalism would always defend social hierarchies against the threat of economic equality.”
Yap-yap-yap... Spectre of Communism, walking again. :-)
\\After all, Ukraine has already long been colonized by Western corporations,
BS. Yawn.
Cause, if it would be true. USA ALREADY would be in war with Russia.
\\Rather, we must find new ways of building social consensus and establishing active links between political parties and civil society.
Like by implanting microchips so all 100% people would listen to Demn Propaganda? ;-P
\\These were strange bedfellows, but they at least could see what was really going on.
Naah... that was just a historical accident.
Uncle Joe was cunning enough to attract burgeaus to rebuild Soviet Union... and on that base bilded up some mutual trust.
Just to destroy it completely... in Korean war.
/Correctly stated bias... but unable to apply it to itself.
Clearly not phylosopher. And not any wiseman. Yawn.
No, he just knows the "wisdom" game (but doesn't practice Meden Agan). He doesn't see the "opposition" in virtue. Like Lacan, he seeks to not compromise his desire (DiEM25), even if it will result in something like a European version of the corrupt USA.
\\For example, we can support Ukraine fully only if we also free it from the grip of the fossil-fuel industry, which relies on Russian oil.
/Psychological transmission, or... am I use correct term?
Projection? Actually, I think he actually believes in anthropocentric global warming theories and of the need to de-carbonize energy.
\\While paying lip service to the climate crisis and ecological breakdown, rich Western countries continue to do little about them.
BS Demn Propaganda.
It's a "power" grab (political not energy).
\\Many on the left today claim to support peace while favoring compromise with brutal, revisionist authoritarian regimes.
/As ever. :-)))
Either world domination or balance of powers is the name of the game. Since I don't go in for the first, I employ the second.
\\Then as now, the “pacifists” argued that the situation in Europe did not concern America. They harbored strange sympathies for the aggressor...
/Yap.
Only, why it "strange"? ;-P
Knowing no History to boot.
No comment other than we know plenty of history.
\\Moreover, just as Churchill led the British Empire to ruin by causing unnecessary wars with Germany, the argument goes, US president George W. Bush led the US to ruin by following Churchill’s example. Like many on the left, Buchanan does not believe the US should offer guarantees to countries where it has no vital interests.
/And you too, Brutus? ;-)
Wars of opportunity are always harder to reconcile than wars of necessity.
\\It rejects helping Ukraine, since that would serve the NATO military-industrial complex.
/Which 99% is USA MIL. ;-P
I used to work for the US Military Industrial Complex. But I'm happy that it's only 20% of the US economy, NOT 99%.
\\As Grace Blakely of Tribune observes, “Authoritarianism is on the rise despite the liberal prediction that the spread of free markets would result in more democracy — that’s because capitalism would always defend social hierarchies against the threat of economic equality.”
/Yap-yap-yap... Spectre of Communism, walking again. :-)
No, it's not. It's the Spectre of Corporatism that is walking, and Corporatism works most "efficiently" with Authoritarianism's ever-increasing cooperation (in aggregate).
\\After all, Ukraine has already long been colonized by Western corporations,
/BS. Yawn.
Cause, if it would be true. USA ALREADY would be in war with Russia.
No they just want to add all of Russia's production capacity to their own.
\\Rather, we must find new ways of building social consensus and establishing active links between political parties and civil society.
/Like by implanting microchips so all 100% people would listen to Demn Propaganda? ;-P
Neuralinks... :P
\\These were strange bedfellows, but they at least could see what was really going on.
/Naah... that was just a historical accident.
Uncle Joe was cunning enough to attract burgeaus to rebuild Soviet Union... and on that base bilded up some mutual trust.
Just to destroy it completely... in Korean war.
He's justifying his political alliance with Neo-Liberal globalism... he wants to retain their social safety net.
\\- The author argues that Jesus Christ was not a wise man.
Yap. He is action hero. :-)))
\\I think he actually believes in anthropocentric global warming theories and of the need to de-carbonize energy.
It is.
But his (and in general, from Demn Propaganda) idea of achieving it... bogus.
Like idea to travel to the Moon in a steamship. (or a cannon shell).
Idea itself -- that we need to learn to control weather in our Home -- Earth...
do you have anything against it, really?
\\It's a "power" grab (political not energy).
Control over narrative. Yap.
\\Either world domination or balance of powers is the name of the game. Since I don't go in for the first, I employ the second.
Do Police need to play "balance of power" with bank robberers? with airplane terrorists? with mass shooters?
Well, MY answer is obvious. As ever.
But... in USA, that passed that obvious stage of cultural development... it different? And therefore... Uvalde. (shaking head in dismy)
\\No comment other than we know plenty of history.
Like which?
History of Great Britain for example?
Which was unsuccessful to prepare to meet criterios of next brawl with obvious rival...
but, they have had Great Backup -- do USA have one?
Answer is obvious.
Europe more important for USA than USA for Europe. Today.
\\I used to work for the US Military Industrial Complex. But I'm happy that it's only 20% of the US economy, NOT 99%.
Well... what was percentage of it in time of WW2?
Do you want to feel it again?
\\No, it's not. It's the Spectre of Corporatism that is walking, and Corporatism works most "efficiently" with Authoritarianism's ever-increasing cooperation (in aggregate).
Corporativism it's second name of Communism.
I get it, that it is not English word root. That's why you do not see it. ;-)
Corporation ALSO Communa.
More then that, I as direct witness of real historical "communism" can say it was EXACTLY corporativism.
Politburo was just a Board of Directors of so-called corporation USSR. ;-P
In essence.
\- The author argues that Jesus Christ was not a wise man.
/Yap. He is action hero. :-)))
There's some wisdom in the bible. But yeah... action hero.
\\I think he actually believes in anthropocentric global warming theories and of the need to de-carbonize energy.
/It is.
But his (and in general, from Demn Propaganda) idea of achieving it... bogus.
Like idea to travel to the Moon in a steamship. (or a cannon shell).
Idea itself -- that we need to learn to control weather in our Home -- Earth...
do you have anything against it, really?
Only the Oooopsies from trying.
\\It's a "power" grab (political not energy).
/Control over narrative. Yap.
They never talk about Lazare Carnot. Progress isn't not possible without access to power of increasing energy densities. We NEED nuclear.
\\Either world domination or balance of powers is the name of the game. Since I don't go in for the first, I employ the second.
/Do Police need to play "balance of power" with bank robberers? with airplane terrorists? with mass shooters?
If they become also robbers/ terrorists/ mass shooters? As Brecht said. What is the robbing of a bank compared with the founding of one?
/Well, MY answer is obvious. As ever.
But... in USA, that passed that obvious stage of cultural development... it different? And therefore... Uvalde. (shaking head in dismy)
Yes, the police became robbers. Pirates of Russia/Ukraine.
\\No comment other than we know plenty of history.
/Like which?
History of Great Britain for example?
Which was unsuccessful to prepare to meet criterios of next brawl with obvious rival...
Better. History of USA when withdraws from Vietnam, Beirut, Afghanistan, Ukr....?
/but, they have had Great Backup -- do USA have one?
Answer is obvious.
Europe more important for USA than USA for Europe. Today.
lol! Japan is more important. Phillipines is more important. S. Korea is more important. Europe needs to take care of itself.
\\I used to work for the US Military Industrial Complex. But I'm happy that it's only 20% of the US economy, NOT 99%.
/Well... what was percentage of it in time of WW2?
Do you want to feel it again?
WWII was a business boom! Feel it again? YES please. All the wealth of Europe was transferred to us. And our losses in terms of population almost insignificant. Back then we didn't pay countries to fight for us. They paid us. If we transferred military equipment, it was lend-lease.
\\No, it's not. It's the Spectre of Corporatism that is walking, and Corporatism works most "efficiently" with Authoritarianism's ever-increasing cooperation (in aggregate).
/Corporativism it's second name of Communism.
I get it, that it is not English word root. That's why you do not see it. ;-)
Corporation ALSO Communa.
More then that, I as direct witness of real historical "communism" can say it was EXACTLY corporativism.
Politburo was just a Board of Directors of so-called corporation USSR. ;-P
In essence.
I know exactly what it is. And the NEED for property as a means of maintaing social distance. A space of "negative liberty" that the State (as a corporation itself) always seeks to negate.
\\There's some wisdom in the bible.
Need to. Such a big text. To be complete nonsence... that would be WISE thing by itself TOO. ;-)
Well. What would you say about Koran? Vedas, which even more ancient (Lindy effect, you know). ;-)
\\Only the Oooopsies from trying.
Well... that only mean that some more brains must be applyed to it.
Some more wisdom AKA "brain first" method.
Instead ot trial and error.
Or am I wrong with something here?
Is there no such wisdom? Is it NOT possible?
But how we able to build bridges, then???
\\They never talk about Lazare Carnot. Progress isn't not possible without access to power of increasing energy densities. We NEED nuclear.
That... depends on plan used.
Well... we have access to enormous nuclear power... you know, that one, we start seeing in the morning, and then for all day long. ;-)
\\If they become also robbers/ terrorists/ mass shooters? As Brecht said. What is the robbing of a bank compared with the founding of one?
Hardly that pupils in Uvalde was/having a time to think about it this way... even if some clever smart asses was among them. :-/
\\Yes, the police became robbers. Pirates of Russia/Ukraine.
Ehm????
\\Better. History of USA when withdraws from Vietnam, Beirut, Afghanistan, Ukr....?
Was there "NATO, get out off my lawn" threats that times too?
What was the state of MIL and military, what was with ICBMs in siloses?
What was with diplomatic rethorics?
All was totally upside down. From what we see/have now.
Pre WWII Great Britain -- much more accurate analogy.
May I call you lord Chamberlain? ;-)
\\lol! Japan is more important. Phillipines is more important. S. Korea is more important. Europe needs to take care of itself.
Yap.
With help... I mean, under the "krisha"/roof of Russia.
And under supervision of China's Emperor.
Why neither dRump nor Bi-den did it, then... if that is so benefitial?
What is level of economical relation of USA with Europe... and with Japan, Phillipines and etc?
What level of cultural relations?
Are you ready to eat porridge... with sticks? ;-)
\\WWII was a business boom! Feel it again? YES please.
Ho... so that could be The Plan??? :-)))))))))))
Well, I will not be commenting on it.
Cause... that is liliPut's propaganda I heared... from forever.
\\I know exactly what it is. And the NEED for property as a means of maintaing social distance. A space of "negative liberty" that the State (as a corporation itself) always seeks to negate.
Dunno...
\\There's some wisdom in the bible.
/Need to. Such a big text. To be complete nonsence... that would be WISE thing by itself TOO. ;-)
Well. What would you say about Koran? Vedas, which even more ancient (Lindy effect, you know). ;-)
Lots of wisdom there, too. Or it wouldn't still be here.
\\Only the Oooopsies from trying.
/Well... that only mean that some more brains must be applyed to it.
Some more wisdom AKA "brain first" method.
Instead ot trial and error.
Or am I wrong with something here?
Is there no such wisdom? Is it NOT possible?
But how we able to build bridges, then???
Bridges never fell down? Rockets always flew the first time? Weather control hasn't even passed TRL1.
\\They never talk about Lazare Carnot. Progress isn't not possible without access to power of increasing energy densities. We NEED nuclear.
/That... depends on plan used.
Well... we have access to enormous nuclear power... you know, that one, we start seeing in the morning, and then for all day long. ;-)
What's it's energy density here on Earth? In a Solar panel? Even LESS.
\\If they become also robbers/ terrorists/ mass shooters? As Brecht said. What is the robbing of a bank compared with the founding of one?
/Hardly that pupils in Uvalde was/having a time to think about it this way... even if some clever smart asses was among them. :-/
\\Yes, the police became robbers. Pirates of Russia/Ukraine.
/Ehm????
You don't think that after eating a nice dinner at a fancy restaurant that the waiter won't bring you the check?
\\Better. History of USA when withdraws from Vietnam, Beirut, Afghanistan, Ukr....?
/Was there "NATO, get out off my lawn" threats that times too?
No, just "Yankee go Home!"
/What was the state of MIL and military, what was with ICBMs in siloses?
They had none. We had plenty.
What was with diplomatic rethorics?
/All was totally upside down. From what we see/have now.
That's what let us leave.
Pre WWII Great Britain -- much more accurate analogy.
May I call you lord Chamberlain? ;-)
Did Hitler have nukes?
\\lol! Japan is more important. Phillipines is more important. S. Korea is more important. Europe needs to take care of itself.
/Yap.
With help... I mean, under the "krisha"/roof of Russia.
And under supervision of China's Emperor.
Give me a mine layer or two and I can assure the world that nobody will bother us. China can't leave the S. China Sea w/o Japan and the Phillipines permission.
Why neither dRump nor Bi-den did it, then... if that is so benefitial?
Cash is cash.
What is level of economical relation of USA with Europe... and with Japan, Phillipines and etc?
:)
What level of cultural relations?
US military bases. We have them. They don't.
Are you ready to eat porridge... with sticks? ;-)
Hollow? Like straws?
\\WWII was a business boom! Feel it again? YES please.
/Ho... so that could be The Plan??? :-)))))))))))
Well, I will not be commenting on it.
Cause... that is liliPut's propaganda I heared... from forever.
Military Industrial Complex. Selling swords and armor has been big business since before the Peloponnesian War (Aristophanes, "Peace"). Lockheed Martin/ Boeing/ General Dynamics are all sending me monthly pension checks.
\\I know exactly what it is. And the NEED for property as a means of maintaing social distance. A space of "negative liberty" that the State (as a corporation itself) always seeks to negate.
/Dunno...
There are only 3 types of social relations. Domination, Communality and Reciprocity. And Money works best in the latter.
\\Bridges never fell down? Rockets always flew the first time?
Do you know MANY examples of building bridges again and again?
Rockets... it's another story.
\\What's it's energy density here on Earth? In a Solar panel? Even LESS.
Magnifying glass? ;-)
\\\\Yes, the police became robbers. Pirates of Russia/Ukraine.
/Ehm????
\\You don't think that after eating a nice dinner at a fancy restaurant that the waiter won't bring you the check?
Still don't get it... cultural differences?
\\No, just "Yankee go Home!"
Pfft! :-)
Go learn from chinese... and there'd be only "Yankee? Welcome!". ;-)
\\/What was the state of MIL and military, what was with ICBMs in siloses?
\\They had none. We had plenty.
Who "they"? Vietnamise?
\\That's what let us leave.
%-)
You think you are off the hook? After bin Laden???
\\Did Hitler have nukes?
He did have Goebbels.
And now... you repeasting sworn enemy propaganda. Again!
For whom the bell tolls?
\\Give me a mine layer or two and I can assure the world that nobody will bother us. China can't leave the S. China Sea w/o Japan and the Phillipines permission.
And miriad of USA invested factories and subcontractors reciding there, too? ;-)
Chinese was merchants far-far BEFORE you...
\\US military bases. We have them. They don't.
Yep. Pfft. Like in Afganistan.
\\Military Industrial Complex.
Oh, so liliPut is agent of Pentagon? I get it. :-)
\\There are only 3 types of social relations. Domination, Communality and Reciprocity. And Money works best in the latter.
Hmm....
And which one we have here? ;-)
\\Bridges never fell down? Rockets always flew the first time?
/Do you know MANY examples of building bridges again and again?
Rockets... it's another story.
New tech is always "another story".
\\What's it's energy density here on Earth? In a Solar panel? Even LESS.
/Magnifying glass? ;-)
Like the abandoned solar power plant in Nevada? Glasses, like mirrors, get dirty.
\\\\Yes, the police became robbers. Pirates of Russia/Ukraine.
/Ehm????
\\You don't think that after eating a nice dinner at a fancy restaurant that the waiter won't bring you the check?
/Still don't get it... cultural differences?
Ukraine hasn't paid the check yet. Don't worry. It's coming. Like to the Germans after Versailles treaty in 1920.
\\No, just "Yankee go Home!"
/Pfft! :-)
Go learn from chinese... and there'd be only "Yankee? Welcome!". ;-)
...because their own economy doesn't work... they need foreign markets.
\\/What was the state of MIL and military, what was with ICBMs in siloses?
\\They had none. We had plenty.
/Who "they"? Vietnamise?
Vietnamese, Afghanis, Al Qaida
\\That's what let us leave.
/%-)
You think you are off the hook? After bin Laden???
Depends. Do you know how jihad works? I do. Russia could easily start one. They don't, because it would likely end Putin. Ever hear of the "Islamic Courts Union"? Do you know who the Mahdi is? Hint- It's NOT Putin. Do you know what a marj'a is? Hint - Its NOT Putin. Do you know why Moqtada al Sadr is so influencial in Iraq? Hint - He's NOT Putin.
\\Did Hitler have nukes?
/He did have Goebbels.
And now... you repeasting sworn enemy propaganda. Again!
For whom the bell tolls?
Soft power isn't hard power.
\\Give me a mine layer or two and I can assure the world that nobody will bother us. China can't leave the S. China Sea w/o Japan and the Phillipines permission.
/And miriad of USA invested factories and subcontractors reciding there, too? ;-)
Chinese was merchants far-far BEFORE you...
When was the last time they fought a naval power?
\\US military bases. We have them. They don't.
/Yep. Pfft. Like in Afganistan.
Like in Germany, Turkey, England, Italy, Spain....
\\Military Industrial Complex.
/Oh, so liliPut is agent of Pentagon? I get it. :-)
Who's to say Putin wasn't Trump's puppet. No he just WANTS to be.
\\There are only 3 types of social relations. Domination, Communality and Reciprocity. And Money works best in the latter.
/Hmm....
And which one we have here? ;-)
Mixed.
\\New tech is always "another story".
Is it?
What is "new" in this mundane world, anyway.
\\Like the abandoned solar power plant in Nevada? Glasses, like mirrors, get dirty.
Problem for engineers to solve. ;-)
\\Ukraine hasn't paid the check yet. Don't worry. It's coming. Like to the Germans after Versailles treaty in 1920.
Ukraine???
And not Rusha?
Well, Rusha have whole stash of goodies to re-pay with. ;-)
Ukraine... that's Poland of nowaday. Isn't it OPBVIOUS???!!!
\\...because their own economy doesn't work... they need foreign markets.
History again.
Go read, about that Jan He fleet.
And compare with your commander Perry.
Or what... you dunno about it too?
\\\\/What was the state of MIL and military, what was with ICBMs in siloses?
\\They had none. We had plenty.
/Who "they"? Vietnamise?
\\Vietnamese, Afghanis, Al Qaida
And? Similarities. You. Want. Me. To see?
Or? Want me. To point at? ;-)
USA run away from Syria too, from al qaida's progeny, remember?
\\Depends. Do you know how jihad works? I do.
Listen to you general Milli.
Wars of future (near future, damn) will be robotic wars. ;-)
Man on battlefield today (I gave you that fotos) -- fleamsy target. And material for practics for scrubs.
\\Soft power isn't hard power.
:-)
Go say it to Pope of the Rome. ;-) (just for one example)
\\When was the last time they fought a naval power?
THAT Naval Power need to be physically present. On-site.
But it'll not happen.
TOOM SCARED.
Well... the same as with Great Britain. What all that Grand Fleet was good for?
For some turkey hunt of Yutland?
\\\\US military bases. We have them. They don't.
/Yep. Pfft. Like in Afganistan.
\\Like in Germany, Turkey, England, Italy, Spain....
Yap.
Smarty Europeans using your pride-foolness to reduce their expenses on own military forces and NATO. ;-)
That is ONE thing for at least, that Trump got right.
\\\\Military Industrial Complex.
/Oh, so liliPut is agent of Pentagon? I get it. :-)
\\Who's to say Putin wasn't Trump's puppet. No he just WANTS to be.
:-))))
PS If you know where this talk goes... tell me.
\\New tech is always "another story".
/Is it?
What is "new" in this mundane world, anyway.
Smaller, faster and more powerful
\\Like the abandoned solar power plant in Nevada? Glasses, like mirrors, get dirty.
/Problem for engineers to solve. ;-)
...and then apply more energy. :(
\\Ukraine hasn't paid the check yet. Don't worry. It's coming. Like to the Germans after Versailles treaty in 1920.
/Ukraine???
And not Rusha?
Well, Rusha have whole stash of goodies to re-pay with. ;-)
Ukraine... that's Poland of nowaday. Isn't it OPBVIOUS???!!!
What part of Krakow?
\\...because their own economy doesn't work... they need foreign markets.
/History again.
Go read, about that Jan He fleet.
And compare with your commander Perry.
Or what... you dunno about it too?
Like I said before, when was the last time China fought a naval battle? At least the Taiwanese understand the problems. China is like Napoleon looking across the channel at Dover...
\\\\/What was the state of MIL and military, what was with ICBMs in siloses?
\\They had none. We had plenty.
/Who "they"? Vietnamise?
\\Vietnamese, Afghanis, Al Qaida
And? Similarities. You. Want. Me. To see?
Or? Want me. To point at? ;-)
USA run away from Syria too, from al qaida's progeny, remember?
Nuclear bombs are only useful when fighting other nuclear powers. Although they've only been used against non-nuclear powers in the past.
\\Depends. Do you know how jihad works? I do.
Listen to you general Milli.
Wars of future (near future, damn) will be robotic wars. ;-)
No, they be fought with sticks and stones.
Man on battlefield today (I gave you that fotos) -- fleamsy target. And material for practics for scrubs.
Hence the effectiveness of sticks and stones.
\\Soft power isn't hard power.
:-)
Go say it to Pope of the Rome. ;-) (just for one example)
To ask him why he maintains a Swiss Guard?
\\When was the last time they fought a naval power?
THAT Naval Power need to be physically present. On-site.
But it'll not happen.
TOOM SCARED.
Well... the same as with Great Britain. What all that Grand Fleet was good for?
For some turkey hunt of Yutland?
You sure? How many US submarines are in the Taiwan Strait right now?
\\\\US military bases. We have them. They don't.
/Yep. Pfft. Like in Afganistan.
\\Like in Germany, Turkey, England, Italy, Spain....
Yap.
Smarty Europeans using your pride-foolness to reduce their expenses on own military forces and NATO. ;-)
That is ONE thing for at least, that Trump got right.
Still, they all function like Rome's citadel. They keep our allies "allied", their own population "hostages". US Hard Power to back up US Soft Power. Our allies are stupid to cut military expenses because of a US presence. Because we no longer want, nor need, NATO.
\\\\Military Industrial Complex.
/Oh, so liliPut is agent of Pentagon? I get it. :-)
\\Who's to say Putin wasn't Trump's puppet. No he just WANTS to be.
:-))))
Nobody sells military gear like a strong "enemy."
PS If you know where this talk goes... tell me.
Look, America doesn't need to fight wars like Cincinnatus. There are smarter ways to fight them. We can assimilate territory if we want to. We did it all the way from 1776 to 1958. We went from 13 to 50 states (and many US territories). We're tired of saving Europe from Europeans and Asia from Asians. We wish to return to the "wisdom" of the Federalist Papers. And as the Continental Dollar says, "Mind our Business".
\\Smaller, faster and more powerful
And you can choose only two of three? ;-)
\\...and then apply more energy. :(
...ehm, funny
tryed to find saying about -- "if you cannot work more intesive any more, try to think more" or something
with query ""work more intensive" saying"
And what it gave to me.
This two links
The Soviet's Treatment of Scientists - JSTOR
www.jstor.org › stable
fic work more intensive and practical, as the Communists say that socialism can exist only with science. I think that scientists will be able to carry on en ...
A MEDICAL REVIEW OF SOVIET RUSSIA. - JSTOR
www.jstor.org › stable
of Education) is active in making scientific work more intensive and practical, as the Communists say that socialism can exist only with science.
:-))))))))
Maybe, Google knows something? :-))
\\What part of Krakow?
Ehm???
\\Like I said before, when was the last time China fought a naval battle? At least the Taiwanese understand the problems. China is like Napoleon looking across the channel at Dover...
Aha... like that Chinese troopers on Cuba? Oh, shit...
Thinking that your enemies stupid -- very poor strategy.
\\Nuclear bombs are only useful when fighting other nuclear powers. Although they've only been used against non-nuclear powers in the past.
Captain Obvious to Team Earth.
That is not nukes that are usefull... but detterence with nukes.
And that... DO NOT work, without having... and DEMONSTRATING ability to use that Nukes.
Go reread your M.A.D. handbook. Not stupid people have been writing it.
\\No, they be fought with sticks and stones.
Said not once here.
Wisdoms of old times... tend to became inaccurate or even outdated... with time.
Go read some Lem. ;-)
\\\\Soft power isn't hard power.
:-)
Go say it to Pope of the Rome. ;-) (just for one example)
\\To ask him why he maintains a Swiss Guard?
:-)))
For inner security? ;-)
For some posterity? Like selfies with tourists.
\\You sure? How many US submarines are in the Taiwan Strait right now?
Again.
What amount, and of what historical importants was battles with battleships... last century?
\\Still, they all function like Rome's citadel. They keep our allies "allied", their own population "hostages".
You really think so?
What would happen if like... Yellow Jackets for example would decide to override your high and mighty military bases?
They will catch your soldiers without pants. Or... will leave em without. After a short rush. ;-)
\\Our allies are stupid to cut military expenses because of a US presence. Because we no longer want, nor need, NATO.
Yawn.
We already discussed it.
\\Nobody sells military gear like a strong "enemy."
That is all peaceful time thoughts.
\\Look, America doesn't need to fight wars like Cincinnatus. There are smarter ways to fight them.
Don't see it.
And I presume that 90% of Earth inhabitants don't see it.
And what most important -- your sworn enemies don't see it.
That utterly smart but wisely concealed strategy.
And as they do not see it... they might decide that you are weak, and it's time to conquier you.
You know, such type of people -- conquiers, they are not that wise and sophisticated. And wars -- that is NOT an event which anybody starts out of smart reasons...
\\We can assimilate territory if we want to. We did it all the way from 1776 to 1958. We went from 13 to 50 states (and many US territories).
Aha... the same as Great Rusha... conquiered and assimilated... Syberia.
\\ We're tired of saving Europe from Europeans and Asia from Asians. We wish to return to the "wisdom" of the Federalist Papers. And as the Continental Dollar says, "Mind our Business".
Then... got ready for NEW commander Perry coming on a Black Sheep(pun intended)... or that'd be Black Swan... to your coasts. ;-)
ONLY when/if... you'd became like that Solaris Ocean -- all-powerful and enigmatic... you could achieve that state of trancvility.... maybe. ;-)
Mere tailless monkeys... cannot achive anything like that... without their tail being cought on fire in result of such negligence...
that's not what I saying... that is what Reality wispers to us, tailless monkeys... all of the time.
But few listen, not diff, to that wisper...
\\What part of Krakow?
/Ehm???
Lem. Megabit bomb (festival) in Krakow. LVIV is 200 miles away. :)
\\Like I said before, when was the last time China fought a naval battle? At least the Taiwanese understand the problems. China is like Napoleon looking across the channel at Dover...
/Aha... like that Chinese troopers on Cuba? Oh, shit...
Thinking that your enemies stupid -- very poor strategy.
Not stupid. Inexperienced. Blockades tend to make the blockading fleet very experienced (always drilling), the blockaded fleet, "rusty" (not drilling). The USNI published two excellent texts on the last large-scale America experience - "US Destroyer Operation in WWII" and "US Submarine Operations in WWII". The Chinese had better be reading them, or they will likely be 'F'd. And even THAT is experience misses the "satellite" factor. The US advantage in WWII was always radar, the Japanese, optics. Finding/ tracking the enemy is EVERYTHING. Like the US carrier "surprise" at Midway. ps - I hope their torpedoes work better than ours at the start of WWII.
\\Nuclear bombs are only useful when fighting other nuclear powers. Although they've only been used against non-nuclear powers in the past.
/Captain Obvious to Team Earth.
That is not nukes that are usefull... but detterence with nukes.
And that... DO NOT work, without having... and DEMONSTRATING ability to use that Nukes.
Go reread your M.A.D. handbook. Not stupid people have been writing it.
I did. I'm deterred. I will not push Ivan into a corner. I will not give Ukraine weapons that will push Ivan into a corner. And I will not allow Poland to assist Ukraine in a manner that drives Ivan into a corner. You all need to learn to live next door to Ivan.
\\No, they be fought with sticks and stones.
/Said not once here.
Wisdoms of old times... tend to became inaccurate or even outdated... with time.
Go read some Lem. ;-)
What goes around, comes around.
\\\\Soft power isn't hard power.
:-)
Go say it to Pope of the Rome. ;-) (just for one example)
\\To ask him why he maintains a Swiss Guard?
:-)))
For inner security? ;-)
For some posterity? Like selfies with tourists.
You never read Machiavelli? The US 1st Amendment guarantees "soft power". The 2nd, "hard power". Ways and "means". :)
\\You sure? How many US submarines are in the Taiwan Strait right now?
/Again.
What amount, and of what historical importants was battles with battleships... last century?
When did the Chinese last use one in battle? Submarine? Aircraft Carrier? PT Boat? Clear a minefield under fire? Protect a convoy or battlegroup?
\\Still, they all function like Rome's citadel. They keep our allies "allied", their own population "hostages".
/You really think so?
What would happen if like... Yellow Jackets for example would decide to override your high and mighty military bases?
They will catch your soldiers without pants. Or... will leave em without. After a short rush. ;-)
You'd be surprised just how defended US bases (and Embassies) are. We may lose a few annexes (ala Benghazi), but our calvary is usually only minutes away.
\\Nobody sells military gear like a strong "enemy."
/That is all peaceful time thoughts.
Foreign Military Sales (FMS). The "backbone" of Neocon corporate globalism.
\\Look, America doesn't need to fight wars like Cincinnatus. There are smarter ways to fight them.
/Don't see it.
And I presume that 90% of Earth inhabitants don't see it.
And what most important -- your sworn enemies don't see it.
That utterly smart but wisely concealed strategy.
And as they do not see it... they might decide that you are weak, and it's time to conquier you.
You know, such type of people -- conquiers, they are not that wise and sophisticated. And wars -- that is NOT an event which anybody starts out of smart reasons...
Wars of Choice tend to bite people in the ass (Afghanistan/ Iraq/ Ukraine). You'll notice I did NOT say Korea or Vietnam). Up until 1989, "Containment" was an excellent foreign policy. Today? Not so much.
\\We can assimilate territory if we want to. We did it all the way from 1776 to 1958. We went from 13 to 50 states (and many US territories).
/Aha... the same as Great Rusha... conquiered and assimilated... Syberia.
\\ We're tired of saving Europe from Europeans and Asia from Asians. We wish to return to the "wisdom" of the Federalist Papers. And as the Continental Dollar says, "Mind our Business".
/Then... got ready for NEW commander Perry coming on a Black Sheep(pun intended)... or that'd be Black Swan... to your coasts. ;-)
In a cocaine submarine? :)
ONLY when/if... you'd became like that Solaris Ocean -- all-powerful and enigmatic... you could achieve that state of trancvility.... maybe. ;-)
/Mere tailless monkeys... cannot achive anything like that... without their tail being cought on fire in result of such negligence...
that's not what I saying... that is what Reality wispers to us, tailless monkeys... all of the time.
But few listen, not diff, to that wisper...
Sorry, I alread hate the Deep State. I will no longer "encourage" it.
\\\\What part of Krakow?
/Ehm???
\\Lem. Megabit bomb (festival) in Krakow. LVIV is 200 miles away. :)
Ough... Ehh... Well, I'm silent admirer of Lem. ;-P
Closet one, even. :-)))
\\Not stupid. Inexperienced.
Generals tend to fight OLD battles.
But, given with what your gen. Milli say -- general EXACTLY know what future battles will be about.
That is politicaians... and general public... tend to think old way.
Beijing Plans a New Training Facility in Cuba, Raising Prospect of ...
www.wsj.com › articles › beijing-plans-a-new-t...
WASHINGTON—China and Cuba are negotiating to establish a new joint military training facility on the island, sparking alarm in Washington ...
All-wise Google:
Does China have military in Cuba?
China has been operating military and intelligence facilities in Cuba since at least 2019 and is continuing to expand its intelligence gathering capabilities around the world, a Biden administration official and two other sources told CNN Saturday.
\\I did. I'm deterred. I will not push Ivan into a corner. I will not give Ukraine weapons that will push Ivan into a corner. And I will not allow Poland to assist Ukraine in a manner that drives Ivan into a corner. You all need to learn to live next door to Ivan.
Then... you are Chamberlain.
Yawn.
\\Ways and "means". :)
"Means" mean nothing... if there is no resolve. :-/
\\When did the Chinese last use one in battle? Submarine? Aircraft Carrier? PT Boat? Clear a minefield under fire? Protect a convoy or battlegroup?
Choice of weapon and battlegound is ALWAYS on the side of agressor.
Why do you think that one would be attacked THERE where one is most protected???
\\You'd be surprised just how defended US bases (and Embassies) are. We may lose a few annexes (ala Benghazi), but our calvary is usually only minutes away.
Aha... like in Mogadisho. You know... that famous Hollywood movie.
\\Wars of Choice tend to bite people in the ass (Afghanistan/ Iraq/ Ukraine). You'll notice I did NOT say Korea or Vietnam). Up until 1989, "Containment" was an excellent foreign policy. Today? Not so much.
Yap.
Because you grown weak. In resolve first of all.
Or... that is what your sworn enemies growing in self-assurence/self-delusion(?).
Well... if one looks weak, but in reality are strong -- that is good starting strategical position... in a war.
But... if one looks weak and IS weak... ouch...
\\In a cocaine submarine? :)
Like you catching ALL of em.
And... I'll remind you -- that heinous poseidons, they are of size of cocaine submarine... and much more sneaky.
\\Sorry, I alread hate the Deep State. I will no longer "encourage" it.
Dunno... why you discerned it this way... was Solaris civilization succumbed by secret services???
Hmmm... interesting idea.
\\\\What part of Krakow?
/Ehm???
\\Lem. Megabit bomb (festival) in Krakow. LVIV is 200 miles away. :)
Ough... Ehh... Well, I'm silent admirer of Lem. ;-P
Closet one, even. :-)))
Yawn. :P
\\Not stupid. Inexperienced.
/Generals tend to fight OLD battles.
But, given with what your gen. Milli say -- general EXACTLY know what future battles will be about.
That is politicaians... and general public... tend to think old way.
I have no respect for Gen Millie's ability. Zero. So yes, he's still fighting the Cold war. As are all the idiots "weakening Russia". Fighting wars don't 'weaken' your enemies. They "train them up" to get better in the next one. Like the Italian Campaign, and even the Egyptian Campaign, did for Napoleon. America's "strategy" in Iraq and Afghanistan was the same one they used in Vietnam. A "citadel" strategy that only works with "Achievement" oriented allies and seldom convinces the discontents to "buy in".
/Beijing Plans a New Training Facility in Cuba, Raising Prospect of ...
www.wsj.com › articles › beijing-plans-a-new-t...
WASHINGTON—China and Cuba are negotiating to establish a new joint military training facility on the island, sparking alarm in Washington ...
All-wise Google:
Does China have military in Cuba?
China has been operating military and intelligence facilities in Cuba since at least 2019 and is continuing to expand its intelligence gathering capabilities around the world, a Biden administration official and two other sources told CNN Saturday.
Can the Cubans repair/refit a Chinese carrier or submarine? The only thing it can do is offer R&R and resupply for crews, and asylum for submarines (in territorial waters) provided we don't send in a hunter-killer Attack sub. I remember Subic Bay (Phillipines). We could resupply and refit the entire US fleet there. We put a lot of prostitutes out of business when we closed it.
\\I did. I'm deterred. I will not push Ivan into a corner. I will not give Ukraine weapons that will push Ivan into a corner. And I will not allow Poland to assist Ukraine in a manner that drives Ivan into a corner. You all need to learn to live next door to Ivan.
/Then... you are Chamberlain.
Yawn.
If Ivan fucks with me, he'll soon regret it. I'll send you weapons, but not enough or the type to even come close to letting you gain the upper hand against Russia and make him desperate enough to launch nukes. That's not Chamberlain. That's centuries old English "Balance of Powers" strategy. Meden agan.
\\Ways and "means". :)
/"Means" mean nothing... if there is no resolve. :-/
There is only one outcome to be sought. Persistence.
\\When did the Chinese last use one in battle? Submarine? Aircraft Carrier? PT Boat? Clear a minefield under fire? Protect a convoy or battlegroup?
Choice of weapon and battlegound is ALWAYS on the side of agressor.
Why do you think that one would be attacked THERE where one is most protected???
It's the ONLY way he a threat to me (invasion)... unless he seeks to annihilate me. And so we are reduced to MAD strategies. And I've already got that covered.
\\You'd be surprised just how defended US bases (and Embassies) are. We may lose a few annexes (ala Benghazi), but our calvary is usually only minutes away.
/Aha... like in Mogadisho. You know... that famous Hollywood movie. Like I said, we may lose some outposts. But there's a cost to our enemies if we do.
\\Wars of Choice tend to bite people in the ass (Afghanistan/ Iraq/ Ukraine). You'll notice I did NOT say Korea or Vietnam). Up until 1989, "Containment" was an excellent foreign policy. Today? Not so much.
/Yap.
Because you grown weak. In resolve first of all.
Or... that is what your sworn enemies growing in self-assurence/self-delusion(?).
Well... if one looks weak, but in reality are strong -- that is good starting strategical position... in a war.
But... if one looks weak and IS weak... ouch...
We have grown weaker. In my day, had 15 CVBGs. We're down to 12. That's one less "deployed" unit (from 5) in the normal refit-train-deploy cycle. That's usually only 1 per operating region (Atlantic/Pacific/Med/Indian). We have a presence, but only a surge capability (training units).
\\In a cocaine submarine? :)
/Like you catching ALL of em.
And... I'll remind you -- that heinous poseidons, they are of size of cocaine submarine... and much more sneaky.
And I'll remind you. The SOSUS network and LiDAR, undersea and satellite based. Plus, Supercavitating torpedoes are also VERY noisy. Did I mention that Americans prefer HARD-kill to British Soft-kill? Most of our gear can no longer be found listed in "Jane's Fighting Ships."
\\Sorry, I alread hate the Deep State. I will no longer "encourage" it.
/Dunno... why you discerned it this way... was Solaris civilization succumbed by secret services???
Hmmm... interesting idea.
Like I said, most gear is no longer listed in Jane's. "Black" budgets have grown exponentially. The world only discover's America's capabilities when someone like Edward Snowden or Julian Assange reveals them.
\\I have no respect for Gen Millie's ability. Zero. So yes, he's still fighting the Cold war.
And he must not? With his place in mind. Isn't that his duty???
\\As are all the idiots "weakening Russia".
It's China today.
Rusha it's just a proxy. ;-P
Like Korea was for Stalin.
\\Fighting wars don't 'weaken' your enemies. They "train them up" to get better in the next one. Like the Italian Campaign, and even the Egyptian Campaign, did for Napoleon. America's "strategy" in Iraq and Afghanistan was the same one they used in Vietnam. A "citadel" strategy that only works with "Achievement" oriented allies and seldom convinces the discontents to "buy in".
Go propose better one.
\\Can the Cubans repair/refit a Chinese carrier or submarine?
Who said it will be comventional?
How much your carriers and submarines helped to PREVENT Cuban Crysis?
\\If Ivan fucks with me, he'll soon regret it. I'll send you weapons, but not enough or the type to even come close to letting you gain the upper hand against Russia and make him desperate enough to launch nukes. That's not Chamberlain. That's centuries old English "Balance of Powers" strategy. Meden agan.
Yap.
That's what China do against you. Now.
With implanting ideas like "we don't need NATO" and all...
\\It's the ONLY way he a threat to me (invasion)... unless he seeks to annihilate me. And so we are reduced to MAD strategies. And I've already got that covered.
There's economical dominance on that plate. ;-)
\\Like I said, we may lose some outposts. But there's a cost to our enemies if we do.
Aha... outposts.
Like Iraq... Syria... Afganistan.
Now you want to "lose" Ukraine.
Then whole Europe... cause that all is miserly mere outposts...
\\And I'll remind you. The SOSUS network and LiDAR, undersea and satellite based. Plus, Supercavitating torpedoes are also VERY noisy.
Well... I don't think they will be using it anyway...
or it not being just a propganda boogieman to scare you...
but well, again, Chinese can buy it all and add to their arsenal too.
And there is lots of other scenarious... Clancy-style.
How some doomsday device can be used.
And now... there is a way to say "it's not us" too. Too many regimes with nukes.
\\I have no respect for Gen Millie's ability. Zero. So yes, he's still fighting the Cold war.
/And he must not? With his place in mind. Isn't that his duty???
I didn't fight the Cold War? The reasons for the Cold War (and Containment Strategy) were to realize George Kennan's prediction from his long telegram and summarized in Isaiah Berlin's response)
After we defeated Hitler and Japan, did we still keep kicking them in the face? Or did we implement the Marshall Plan? Communism collapsed in Russia in 1990's. The war was over. Millie still wants to kick Russia. They needed a Marshall Plan.
\\As are all the idiots "weakening Russia".
/It's China today.
Rusha it's just a proxy. ;-P
Like Korea was for Stalin.
Nixon drove the wedge into communism by splitting the two (Russia/China). China has since morphed into Communism with Capitalist virtues (ie STATE Capitalism). It was so successful, it corrupted our leaders... who believed China would "inevitably" become "democratic" if capitalism was implemented (it didn't) Democracy, it turned out, is only important for a capitalist market to survive. China became a beacon for a greedy new state capitalism like mercantilism in the 17th/18th century under the UK.
\\Fighting wars don't 'weaken' your enemies. They "train them up" to get better in the next one. Like the Italian Campaign, and even the Egyptian Campaign, did for Napoleon. America's "strategy" in Iraq and Afghanistan was the same one they used in Vietnam. A "citadel" strategy that only works with "Achievement" oriented allies and seldom convinces the discontents to "buy in".
/Go propose better one.
Let Putin join the club. Make him "achievement" oriented. Put him back in the G-8!
\\Can the Cubans repair/refit a Chinese carrier or submarine?
Who said it will be comventional?
How much your carriers and submarines helped to PREVENT Cuban Crysis? ICBMs have longer ranges today. No need to be close by, unless planning a 1st Strike. Even then, I just park a few CGs with SM-3's offshore. Or better, locate some MK-41 VLS and AN/SPY1 Aegis Systems on one of the Florida Keys (or at GITMO itself). Did i ever tell you that one of my idiot former classmates commanded GITMO during the post 9/11 days?
\\If Ivan fucks with me, he'll soon regret it. I'll send you weapons, but not enough or the type to even come close to letting you gain the upper hand against Russia and make him desperate enough to launch nukes. That's not Chamberlain. That's centuries old English "Balance of Powers" strategy. Meden agan.
/Yap.
That's what China do against you. Now.
With implanting ideas like "we don't need NATO" and all...
That's what life in a multi-polar world is all about. keeping the balances. Especially when the prevailing Superpower goes crazy and starts getting ideas of dominating all markets for the enrichment of it's corporate masters and subsequent "inflationary" impoverishment of its' own citizens (upon whom the entire global market system ultimately depends).
\\It's the ONLY way he a threat to me (invasion)... unless he seeks to annihilate me. And so we are reduced to MAD strategies. And I've already got that covered.
/There's economical dominance on that plate. ;-)
A dominance that will disappear once the market (American consumers) for all those goods is made unable to buy any products (impoverished).
\\Like I said, we may lose some outposts. But there's a cost to our enemies if we do.
/Aha... outposts.
Like Iraq... Syria... Afganistan.
Now you want to "lose" Ukraine.
Then whole Europe... cause that all is miserly mere outposts...
Yes, I want to lose them all. America was, and always will be, 'enough'. Let Ukraine become the "world police". As for us... molon labe.
\\And I'll remind you. The SOSUS network and LiDAR, undersea and satellite based. Plus, Supercavitating torpedoes are also VERY noisy.
/Well... I don't think they will be using it anyway...
or it not being just a propganda boogieman to scare you...
but well, again, Chinese can buy it all and add to their arsenal too.
And there is lots of other scenarious... Clancy-style.
How some doomsday device can be used.
And now... there is a way to say "it's not us" too. Too many regimes with nukes.
Ah, the Atreides "family atomics". Isn't that why we need to conquer/ colonize space now? :)
\\I didn't fight the Cold War? The reasons for the Cold War (and Containment Strategy) were to realize George Kennan's prediction from his long telegram and summarized in Isaiah Berlin's response)
And not madman from overseas ideas of World Revolution???
Or just his paranoid fears of you bombing him out first?
Or his maniacal dreams about conquiring Weak and Fleamsy Capitalists, he just learned how to fight against successfully???
I salute to you not demonstarting external locus of control reasoning.
But your inner one... looks a bit excessive.
\\Communism collapsed in Russia in 1990's.
Communism? Maybe.
But not ruSSian imperialism.
\\Nixon drove the wedge into communism by splitting the two (Russia/China).
Again... you gobbling too much credit.
They was (and is) sworn enemies. As two empires.
\\China has since morphed into Communism with Capitalist virtues (ie STATE Capitalism).
Communism -- it IS state Capitalism.
\\Democracy, it turned out, is only important for a capitalist market to survive.
Naaah.
Democracy it's a happenstance in countries that grown centavristic in time of their development (like your North and your South).
\\Let Putin join the club. Make him "achievement" oriented. Put him back in the G-8!
He throwed it out of the window... in 2014. Or even before. In his mind.
That all was "maskirovka" -- to reassure gullible Westerners that "Great Russia" admitted being defeated and showing itself submissive.
Until... until strength will be regained, to continue fighting.
And you... deepthroated that hook.
\\ICBMs have longer ranges today. No need to be close by,
Yap.
And even worse.
There are even more non-military means of deliever...
some civilian vehicles that can be repurposed or developed for it.
Only totalitarian lack of fanatasy spares you from new and shiny government sponsored terrorism to wreck havok to your lifestyle.
But there was preliminaries. 9/11. Polonium and "Novichok". Spores in envelopes. And etc.
\\That's what life in a multi-polar world is all about. keeping the balances.
Not with nuclear threats thrown on the table under any premice and in every circumstances.
Again. Do you play? know rules of poker?
What do you think about apparently bluffed all-ins??? :-)
\\A dominance that will disappear once the market (American consumers) for all those goods is made unable to buy any products (impoverished).
Did you know... Chinese like pork. And buy a lot of cars. Today.
To thge level, that their inner market situation defines prices of oil, gas and grain. TODAY.
\\Ah, the Atreides "family atomics". Isn't that why we need to conquer/ colonize space now? :)
For a carefully chosen few to take refuge?
\\I didn't fight the Cold War? The reasons for the Cold War (and Containment Strategy) were to realize George Kennan's prediction from his long telegram and summarized in Isaiah Berlin's response)
/And not madman from overseas ideas of World Revolution???
Or just his paranoid fears of you bombing him out first?
Or his maniacal dreams about conquiring Weak and Fleamsy Capitalists, he just learned how to fight against successfully???
I salute to you not demonstarting external locus of control reasoning.
But your inner one... looks a bit excessive.
We can't convince the world to follow us, and our Adam Smith 'Wise Men of Gotham' system of 'petite' capitalism (as opposed to English global mercantilism/ colonialism), without allowing the world to experience other models, and watch them fail as with Marxist/ Leninist/ Stalinist communism (and in the present case today with American global/ Chinese 'Grand' capitalism). Members of the marketplace need reciprocal trade, and reciprocal sources of income. Global or National Monopoly capitalism impoverishes the customers that make up its' market, therby diminishing trade opportunities.
\\Communism collapsed in Russia in 1990's.
/Communism? Maybe.
But not ruSSian imperialism.
Nor American imperialism which began in 1944 with the Bretton Woods Agreement and went into hyper-drive under Nixon (off gold standard) and Reagan/Thatcher (financial globalisation). After 1970 "meden agan" began showing its' effects. State became increeasingly involved in regulating the economy (fiscal stability under Federal Reserve). Weak corporations were not allowed to fail. Economic fragility became more and more baked in. After 1990, Russia was no more a threat to the US than France was.
\\Nixon drove the wedge into communism by splitting the two (Russia/China).
/Again... you gobbling too much credit.
They was (and is) sworn enemies. As two empires.
Okay, so maybe I am. But it worked. Divide et Impera. But US poured BILLIONS into Chinese economy by opening up our market. Even Oswald Spengler knew/ saw stupidity of this (Man and Technics).
\\China has since morphed into Communism with Capitalist virtues (ie STATE Capitalism).
/Communism -- it IS state Capitalism.
Exactly. But from stanpoint of aggregate efficiencies, the MOST efficient. Large-Vertically Integrated MONOPOLY capitalism possible. I should know. I worked for Bethlehem Steel Shipyards. We made EVERYTHING that went into that ship... steel plates, turbines, pumps, etc. Anything and everything made of steel. It made OUR products "cheaper"... we paid no markups... contributed to no one else's profits. And our customers, like Ari Onassis, would man his ships with foreign crews that American shippers couldn't compete with. Arco, Exxon, all paid higher "American" crew (Jones Act) wages.
\\Democracy, it turned out, is only important for a capitalist market to survive.
/Naaah.
Democracy it's a happenstance in countries that grown centavristic in time of their development (like your North and your South).
You're wrong. Is it better to have rich customers or poor ones? Panem et Circenses. Customers watching the Games all Day long make poor employees. Yes, people with IQ under 85 aren't worth putting to work, but the other 85%/ rest? Reciprocity, baby. Even if less "efficient" in "aggregate". That's 85% of customers with earned money, not money GIVEN to them (welfare) to spend. And our north and south fought because the north's profit margins "globally" were higher than the South raw materials. They put high tariffs of imported finished goods to make American goods more attractive. And the north put taxes on South's raw exports to make their European competitors raw materials more expensive (and less competetive). The North was full of greedy B*stards.
\\Let Putin join the club. Make him "achievement" oriented. Put him back in the G-8!
/He throwed it out of the window... in 2014. Or even before. In his mind.
Please. Maidan was all USA. CIA, DoS playing their old Cold War/ NATO game. Hubris.
/That all was "maskirovka" -- to reassure gullible Westerners that "Great Russia" admitted being defeated and showing itself submissive.
Until... until strength will be regained, to continue fighting.
And you... deepthroated that hook.
If Japan hadn't been kicking our economic trade asses at the time, we might have implemented a Marshall Plan for Russia.
\\ICBMs have longer ranges today. No need to be close by,
/Yap.
And even worse.
There are even more non-military means of deliever...
some civilian vehicles that can be repurposed or developed for it.
Only totalitarian lack of fanatasy spares you from new and shiny government sponsored terrorism to wreck havok to your lifestyle.
But there was preliminaries. 9/11. Polonium and "Novichok". Spores in envelopes. And etc.
Hypersonic missiles, too. faster/better/cheaper.
\\That's what life in a multi-polar world is all about. keeping the balances.
/Not with nuclear threats thrown on the table under any premice and in every circumstances.
Again. Do you play? know rules of poker?
What do you think about apparently bluffed all-ins??? :-)
It's one thing to call a bluff. Another to force a hand.
\\A dominance that will disappear once the market (American consumers) for all those goods is made unable to buy any products (impoverished).
Did you know... Chinese like pork. And buy a lot of cars. Today.
To thge level, that their inner market situation defines prices of oil, gas and grain. TODAY.
Why? Why must they be "subsidized"? Because they don't have a democratic market where people can earn enough money to pay higher/ full prices. That is why they must sell most of their goods overseas, to people who can pay OVER market prices. The Chinese market is too "poor". to sustain the Chinese economy. The American and European markets, on the hand, could, but are increasingly becoming less capable (Middle-Classes hollowed out by Chinese and other global competition).
\\Ah, the Atreides "family atomics". Isn't that why we need to conquer/ colonize space now? :)
/For a carefully chosen few to take refuge?
Like Elon Musk (Mars)? Or to mine asteroids for rare earth minerals materials? Or Spice/ Melange?
\\We can't convince the world to follow us
And do you need to?
Burden of a white man? ;-)
Well... forgive me my criticism here, but you look like not understsnding USA's real strength and that -- ability to invest in newest most hot techs.
Not like Europe much different. But they have NO rich united market, to give a boost for any such COMMERCIAL success.
\\Nor American imperialism...
As ever. You, Ams... have tiniest understanding what imperialsm is.
And wrongly designate oneself imerialists. For good or for bad. ;-)
Or... you are free to explain -- how you are imperialists??? What is "empire" word mean?
\\After 1990, Russia was no more a threat to the US than France was.
That... absolutely different story.
Fall of Rusha is neither your fault nor success.
And well... in what way France was a threat to USA, ever???? :-))))
Do you fear they'll return fasion on wigs? And you'd be forced to wear em again??? :-))))))))))))
\\Exactly. But from stanpoint of aggregate efficiencies, the MOST efficient.
Until it not. What breakup of USSR confirmed staunchly.
Fragility, as you say.
Yawn.
\\Democracy it's a happenstance in countries that grown centavristic in time of their development (like your North and your South).
\\You're wrong.
Well... maybe. I am not an expert. Just a observant diletante. ;-P
But I have had enough time and material, to observe. And to do it calmly, objectively and without need to seek for approval from "those who know better". ;-)
\\The North was full of greedy B*stards.
Never the less... you became united again. And that was not imperialistic re-conquest. (as Rusha's war on Ukraine is today)
Ability to live under one roof -- that is Democracy. Have something to oppose?
\\Please. Maidan was all USA.
BS. :-)
What sources you have for such claims???
And why you think they could trump over sources (and personal experience) of much more close observer?
\\If Japan hadn't been kicking our economic trade asses at the time, we might have implemented a Marshall Plan for Russia.
For that... you'd must have "boot on the ground" there.
And you -- fear that the most!
\\Hypersonic missiles, too. faster/better/cheaper.
Fear it so much... that inventing such a lame excuses.
That is... vaporware. ;-P
The same as "Star Wars" of Ray-Gun. ;-)
liliPut just tryed to reverse your sneaky plan on you. (like Derpy trying to do with my words)
\\It's one thing to call a bluff. Another to force a hand.
Like to make USA to come to a war proclaimed against USA? ;-)
\\The Chinese market is too "poor". to sustain the Chinese economy.
Like your market was rich in all times...
\\\\Ah, the Atreides "family atomics". Isn't that why we need to conquer/ colonize space now? :)
/For a carefully chosen few to take refuge?
\\Like Elon Musk (Mars)? Or to mine asteroids for rare earth minerals materials? Or Spice/ Melange?
We discussed it, isn't it?
New technologies needed for that. New approaches. New social systems even... maybe.
\\We can't convince the world to follow us
/And do you need to?
Burden of a white man? ;-)
Well... forgive me my criticism here, but you look like not understsnding USA's real strength and that -- ability to invest in newest most hot techs.
Not like Europe much different. But they have NO rich united market, to give a boost for any such COMMERCIAL success.
You miss the point. Soon there will be NO rich united market from which COMMERCIAL success may follow. THAT market is disappearing. It is being killed by the "productive efficiency" that increasingly prevents members of the marketplace from continuing to participate in it. THAT market increasing demands "burn out". It demands the opposite of "life".
\\Nor American imperialism...
/As ever. You, Ams... have tiniest understanding what imperialsm is.
And wrongly designate oneself imerialists. For good or for bad. ;-)
Or... you are free to explain -- how you are imperialists??? What is "empire" word mean?
Financially. The "efficient" production of goods requires capital. THAT capital, and the profits from the endeavors financed, increasingly return to the provider of capital. And that "provider" is becoming an American state-directed monopoly that rewards surplus salaries to its enablers, and impoverishes its majority workforce and detractors. The Arab Spring started in Tunisia. Do you understand what it was/meant?
The Arab Spring began in December 2010 when Tunisian street vendor Mohammed Bouazizi set himself on fire to protest the arbitrary seizing of his vegetable stand by police over failure to obtain a permit.
Do you know what an "araber" is my my city of Baltimore? Do you know who the typical Jihadi is? He's the 2nd/ 3rd son in a Moslem family who will not inherit his fathers lands/ business. He needs to start his own. And he gets his "stake" fighting jihad for Osama bin Laden in countries like Pakistan. THAT was OBL's genius'... providing employment/ a life for those foreign Muslims shut out of the economy by the more "efficient" global capital. He is like Mohammed Bouazizi of Tunisia. He must set himself on fire because there is no way for him to earn a living unless he is allowed to "burn himself out" for a corporation for a tiny 'surplus salary'. in many ways, Osama bin Laden was just a "Community Organizer" (think Barrack Obama) for the Moslem Community.
\\After 1990, Russia was no more a threat to the US than France was.
/That... absolutely different story.
Fall of Rusha is neither your fault nor success.
And well... in what way France was a threat to USA, ever???? :-))))
Do you fear they'll return fasion on wigs? And you'd be forced to wear em again??? :-))))))))))))
The fall was not our fault. The ability of Russia to rebuild and join the world community (w/o American financial investment for modernization) was. The USA and Europe captured the Russian market, and prevented Russia from bootstrapping its' own economy. We eeked off all the financial reserves required for future Russian investment and economic growth.
\\Exactly. But from stanpoint of aggregate efficiencies, the MOST efficient.
/Until it not. What breakup of USSR confirmed staunchly.
Fragility, as you say.
Yawn.
Russian government had few aggregate efficiencies (road/ rail networks/ port facilities/ etc.) to offer. All of those had been neglected and were deteriorated. The Russians were globally non-competetive. America has 10x Russia's "aggregate efficiency". China has 20x.
\\Democracy it's a happenstance in countries that grown centavristic in time of their development (like your North and your South).
\\You're wrong.
Well... maybe. I am not an expert. Just a observant diletante. ;-P
But I have had enough time and material, to observe. And to do it calmly, objectively and without need to seek for approval from "those who know better". ;-)
Maybe...
\\The North was full of greedy B*stards.
/Never the less... you became united again. And that was not imperialistic re-conquest. (as Rusha's war on Ukraine is today)
Ability to live under one roof -- that is Democracy. Have something to oppose?
The Union didn't impose its' will on the Confederacy? The armies of the Southern States weren't nationalized/ federalized under centralized command structures after that? The "aggregate efficiencies" of the South had never been as great (despite the institution of slavery vs wage slavery) in the South. The 9th and 10th Amendments (and eventually the 17th) didn't all but eliminate "State's Rights"? Those were all the birthing acts of imperialism. We would soon thereafter dismantle what remained of the Spanish Empire and claim it for ourselves.
\\Please. Maidan was all USA.
BS. :-)
What sources you have for such claims???
And why you think they could trump over sources (and personal experience) of much more close observer?
Because I do not underestimate the efficacy of the US Intelligence Community and State Department. Ukraine had a natural division that they effectively exploited.
\\If Japan hadn't been kicking our economic trade asses at the time, we might have implemented a Marshall Plan for Russia.
/For that... you'd must have "boot on the ground" there.
And you -- fear that the most!
No, for that we needed to press a real "reset button" from post-Cold war diplomatic relations. Not some BS prop 3D printed for Hillary Clinton.
\\Hypersonic missiles, too. faster/better/cheaper.
/Fear it so much... that inventing such a lame excuses.
That is... vaporware. ;-P
The same as "Star Wars" of Ray-Gun. ;-)
liliPut just tryed to reverse your sneaky plan on you. (like Derpy trying to do with my words)
Ever work in a SCIF for a major Defense Contractor developing ASW systems? Ever work in their Labs developing laser tech? Ever work in their labs with Israeli's developing ABM tech (Arrow System)? I have. And that was 30 years ago. Ever team with MIT Lincoln Labs developing inter-planetary laser comm systems? I have some clue as to what is and isn't "vaporware".
\\It's one thing to call a bluff. Another to force a hand.
/Like to make USA to come to a war proclaimed against USA? ;-)
...rather than bring in a new partner and therby eschew economic mono-pole-ization?
\\The Chinese market is too "poor". to sustain the Chinese economy.
/Like your market was rich in all times...
My mother grew up on a family farm in Iowa. My father's parents ran a small grocery store in a small but thriving community in Ohio. Were you to go there today, you would see a few corporate farms and a WalMart. All the stores would be boarded up. Even the WalMart will be run down. Everything comes from "Amazon" now. There are few people there. All but the old people have left. No one farms anymore. It's VERY efficient. No inefficiencies trickling down into local communities anymore.
\\\\Ah, the Atreides "family atomics". Isn't that why we need to conquer/ colonize space now? :)
/For a carefully chosen few to take refuge?
\\Like Elon Musk (Mars)? Or to mine asteroids for rare earth minerals materials? Or Spice/ Melange?
/We discussed it, isn't it?
New technologies needed for that. New approaches. New social systems even... maybe.
...ones that can adjust to living in tight spaces for years on end.
;p
\\You miss the point. Soon there will be NO rich united market from which COMMERCIAL success may follow.
Hmmm??? In result of nuclear bombing of Rush'a (this way, better?)???
\\THAT market is disappearing. It is being killed by the "productive efficiency" that increasingly prevents members of the marketplace from continuing to participate in it. THAT market increasing demands "burn out". It demands the opposite of "life".
Yap.
It needs fresh blood of new techs...
Well, and... did you not heard about Economical Cycles?
\\The Arab Spring started in Tunisia. Do you understand what it was/meant?
Naah. Nobody can know everything. And that... far from my interests...
\\Do you know who the typical Jihadi is? He's the 2nd/ 3rd son in a Moslem family who will not inherit his fathers lands/ business. He needs to start his own.
Seems like new story for you...
but, Europe existed for centuries in such mode. And as such -- wars, neverending...
\\The ability of Russia to rebuild and join the world community (w/o American financial investment for modernization) was.
Naah.
That is not economical. That is cultural.
Historical lesson. For you to learn from. But you will not.
That that is NOT enough ti feed people, to make em "good".
There is ruSSian saying, again: "no matter how well you feeding wolf... he will seek to run back to forest".
That's... what happened with Nazi Germany.
They was well-fed, after WW1... but, when "thin cows" came... only cultural pattern they knew how to react to it -- was war.
\\The USA and Europe captured the Russian market, and prevented Russia from bootstrapping its' own economy.
Please. Be more explicit here -- how do you see it?
\\We eeked off all the financial reserves required for future Russian investment and economic growth.
Yeah???
And what that National Wellfare Fund liliPut using to fight a war are from????
\\The Russians were globally non-competetive.
And whose fault is this?
\\Those were all the birthing acts of imperialism.
Just two simple traits.
1) Continuous conquest. With adding territories to metrolopia.
2) All-inclusive codex of laws. When same laws spread to new territories.
You have memories/feelings/experience being part of empire...
but naah, you are not one.
Go add Canada as your territory. Under your law.
Go start recruiting newly conquired into your army.
\\Ukraine had a natural division that they effectively exploited.
CIA???
And not Rush'a????
Who had DIRECT play in that game. And tryed to influence ukrainian politics with all its might???
\\Ever team with MIT Lincoln Labs developing inter-planetary laser comm systems? I have some clue as to what is and isn't "vaporware".
I, too.
Real solutions -- showed working. Even if it hiden.
Vaporware... you show em only in presentation materials and promotion cartoons. ;-P
\\...rather than bring in a new partner and therby eschew economic mono-pole-ization?
If you like street thug as partner...
\\...ones that can adjust to living in tight spaces for years on end.
Who can know?
Imagine yourself gentlment from 19th century -- what your idea of 21st century would be? ;-)
\You miss the point. Soon there will be NO rich united market from which COMMERCIAL success may follow.
Hmmm??? In result of nuclear bombing of Rush'a (this way, better?)???
I'd prefer to have neither result. For if the 2nd doesn't get us, the 1st will follow.
\\THAT market is disappearing. It is being killed by the "productive efficiency" that increasingly prevents members of the marketplace from continuing to participate in it. THAT market increasing demands "burn out". It demands the opposite of "life".
/Yap.
It needs fresh blood of new techs...
Well, and... did you not heard about Economical Cycles?
No, it needs more products and tech coming out of Wozniak's garage, not Musk's rocket factory.
\\The Arab Spring started in Tunisia. Do you understand what it was/meant?
Naah. Nobody can know everything. And that... far from my interests...
It illustrates the excesses of capitalism, the point at which it ceases to be 'virtuous' and turn's into the evil of a systemic banality.
\\Do you know who the typical Jihadi is? He's the 2nd/ 3rd son in a Moslem family who will not inherit his fathers lands/ business. He needs to start his own.
/Seems like new story for you...
but, Europe existed for centuries in such mode. And as such -- wars, neverending...
It's also a stronger religious "tech". It's why in America we have the Nation of Islam (NOI). It's 1st step on a civilizational ladder... an organizing node. Islam=mosque Communism=workplace. Like Islamic Courts Union in Eritrea/ Sudan. Only it provides "law". Like Xtian church after fall of Rome.
\\The ability of Russia to rebuild and join the world community (w/o American financial investment for modernization) was.
/Naah.
That is not economical. That is cultural.
Historical lesson. For you to learn from. But you will not.
That that is NOT enough to feed people, to make em "good".
There is ruSSian saying, again: "no matter how well you feeding wolf... he will seek to run back to forest".
That's... what happened with Nazi Germany.
They was well-fed, after WW1... but, when "thin cows" came... only cultural pattern they knew how to react to it -- was war.
Economics DRIVES culture. Hesiod, "Works and Days". (ll. 42-53) For the gods keep hidden from men the means of life. Else you would easily do work enough in a day to supply you for a full year even without working; soon would you put away your rudder over the smoke, and the fields worked by ox and sturdy mule would run to waste.
Why do you suppose inspired Marx to write "Das Kapital"? Culture is an adaptation to it. Chicken/Egg which came first?
\\The USA and Europe captured the Russian market, and prevented Russia from bootstrapping its' own economy.
/Please. Be more explicit here -- how do you see it?
Russian products could not compete with products made in automated factories and in tremendous volumes by robots. They were not "economically efficient" enough. Westerners captured the "manufactured product" market and siphoned out all the money. Same around the world. Islamic world. Globalism. It's an economic vampyre. Fight against it, and you are a "terrorist". Like J6. Or France's "Gilets Jeaunes."
\\We eeked off all the financial reserves required for future Russian investment and economic growth.
/Yeah???
And what that National Wellfare Fund liliPut using to fight a war are from????
Sanctions make him stronger. Keeps Western Manufactured goods OUT (and thereby stimulates Russian domestic production). He also sells oil for MORE money on "black market" to China/ India partners.
\\The Russians were globally non-competetive.
/And whose fault is this?
Who cares? Russians gotta eat, too. And they need to work to have money to buy what they eat.
\\Those were all the birthing acts of imperialism.
/Just two simple traits.
1) Continuous conquest. With adding territories to metrolopia.
2) All-inclusive codex of laws. When same laws spread to new territories.
You have memories/feelings/experience being part of empire...
but naah, you are not one.
Go add Canada as your territory. Under your law.
Go start recruiting newly conquired into your army.
No, ours is not an empire of "direct domination" like Russia. It's one of ruling indirectly through foreign princes and caliphs. A nationalized mandarin system that still pretends to be a "democracy' and offer 'democracy'. You have "choice", but it's a forced choice. One WE dictate. And your Prince and you're "free" to "achieve" and earn a surplus salary... but you will not "own" it. If you build it, you will sell it to us, and we will replace you with a surplus salaried university educated 'manager". You've read Machiavelli's "The Prince"? We don't punish. We exclude from reward. We are a "Society of Control" (and Achievement). And we control access to capital, and "what capital can be used for". If you need to be punished, someone else will do so for rewards from us.
\\Ukraine had a natural division that they effectively exploited.
/CIA???
And not Rush'a????
Who had DIRECT play in that game. And tryed to influence ukrainian politics with all its might???
Was NATO being pushed back? Or was NATO expanding? WWII OSS became CIA.
\\Ever team with MIT Lincoln Labs developing inter-planetary laser comm systems? I have some clue as to what is and isn't "vaporware".
/I, too.
Real solutions -- showed working. Even if it hiden.
Vaporware... you show em only in presentation materials and promotion cartoons. ;-P
Then how can you shoot down a hypersonic missile that doesn't exist? Aren't you thereby refuting your own "vaporware" argument?
\\...rather than bring in a new partner and therby eschew economic mono-pole-ization?
/If you like street thug as partner...
We're ALL street thugs. Some or merely more sophisticated than others.
\\...ones that can adjust to living in tight spaces for years on end.
/Who can know?
Imagine yourself gentlment from 19th century -- what your idea of 21st century would be? ;-) Ask Jules Verne or HG Wells. Ever read EM Forrester's "The Machine Stops"?
You can't know. But you can guess.
\\I'd prefer to have neither result. For if the 2nd doesn't get us, the 1st will follow.
Then... new techs is your cure. ;-)
\\No, it needs more products and tech coming out of Wozniak's garage, not Musk's rocket factory.
It's one and the same. On the base of development of techs.
It is not possible to create innovation with screwdriver and hammer.
But still is with computer and Python code. ;-P
\\It illustrates the excesses of capitalism, the point at which it ceases to be 'virtuous' and turn's into the evil of a systemic banality.
Only... any other alternative is much worse.
Or... do you like Pol Pot's death fields???
\\Economics DRIVES culture. Hesiod...
Or Marx. ;-)
Well. As with all ancient wisdoms... it's not exactly true.
Non-linearity. ;-)
\\Chicken/Egg which came first?
Not a problem today. "Chicken" with claws and teeth. Archeopterix. ;-)
\\and siphoned out all the money.
Where they take money to fight a war, then????
\\Sanctions make him stronger.
Yap-yap-yap. :-))))))))))))))))
Or, so he says.
WHY they secreted there economical figures then???
\\Keeps Western Manufactured goods OUT (and thereby stimulates Russian domestic production).
Like... microchips???
\\He also sells oil for MORE money on "black market" to China/ India partners.
Without discounts??? :-)
\\No, ours is not an empire of "direct domination" like Russia.
There's no many types of empires...
\\Was NATO being pushed back? Or was NATO expanding? WWII OSS became CIA.
????
It looks like you admired "Evil Empire" and nostalgic about it.
Well... Lem descri\bed it at length.
Like in this text "About usefulness of a dragon". ;-)
\\Then how can you shoot down a hypersonic missile that doesn't exist? Aren't you thereby refuting your own "vaporware" argument?
1960 tactical ballistic missle (well, with some steroid infused) which "suddenly" became "hypersonic". ;-P
\\We're ALL street thugs. Some or merely more sophisticated than others.
Well.... still... there is "honest" thugs, which honors argeement.
And those who don't.
Which one you'd prefer to have as partners???
\\Ask Jules Verne or HG Wells. Ever read EM Forrester's "The Machine Stops"?
Yup!
But they was able to predict only 20th century. Not 21st.
\\You can't know. But you can guess.
Yes. As Lem did.
\\But they was able to predict only 20th century. Not 21st.
And now we need to start thinking about 22nd.
\\I'd prefer to have neither result. For if the 2nd doesn't get us, the 1st will follow.
/Then... new techs is your cure. ;-)
Old techs (legal) will serve fine.
\\No, it needs more products and tech coming out of Wozniak's garage, not Musk's rocket factory.
/It's one and the same. On the base of development of techs.
It is not possible to create innovation with screwdriver and hammer.
But still is with computer and Python code. ;-P
But NOT the same in social/cultural effects.
\\Sanctions make him stronger.
/Yap-yap-yap. :-))))))))))))))))
Or, so he says.
WHY they secreted there economical figures then???
\\Keeps Western Manufactured goods OUT (and thereby stimulates Russian domestic production).
/Like... microchips???
\\He also sells oil for MORE money on "black market" to China/ India partners.
/Without discounts??? :-)
Secret? Discounts?
Russian oil export revenue has increased by 50% since the start of 2022, generating close to $20 billion per month in sales1. In 2021, Russia exported almost 230 million tons of crude oil worth $110.1 billion to 36 countries, with China being the biggest buyer for the past five years2. Despite sanctions from the West, Russia is expected to make more than $320 billion from energy sales in 2022, up more than a third from 20213. Russia has been selling its crude at steep discounts to Asia, in particular to China and India, as it hunts for alternative buyers to replace its key European market4. Although Russian crude sales to Europe dropped, Asian refiners increased their take, nearly a one-for-one replacement5.
\\No, ours is not an empire of "direct domination" like Russia.
/There's no many types of empires...
Rome and Russia are the same? Persia was the same? Who knew? I know expand, blah, blah, blah? US doesn't "expand" if Ukraine wins? Why "fund" it then?
\\Was NATO being pushed back? Or was NATO expanding? WWII OSS became CIA.
/????
It looks like you admired "Evil Empire" and nostalgic about it.
Well... Lem descri\bed it at length.
Like in this text "About usefulness of a dragon". ;-)
To fly over castle walls and destroy what's inside (ala Game of Thrones). :)
\\Then how can you shoot down a hypersonic missile that doesn't exist? Aren't you thereby refuting your own "vaporware" argument?
/1960 tactical ballistic missle (well, with some steroid infused) which "suddenly" became "hypersonic". ;-P
Ballistic missiles aren't hypersonic? Or only Mach5+ Scramjets are "legit" hypersonic tech?
\\We're ALL street thugs. Some or merely more sophisticated than others.
/Well.... still... there is "honest" thugs, which honors argeement.
And those who don't.
Which one you'd prefer to have as partners???
Mafioso, of course.
\\Ask Jules Verne or HG Wells. Ever read EM Forrester's "The Machine Stops"?
/Yup!
But they was able to predict only 20th century. Not 21st.
Machine is stopping now.
.
\\But they was able to predict only 20th century. Not 21st.
/And now we need to start thinking about 22nd.
Monkeys in trees. And THAT's the optimistic scenario.
\\Old techs (legal) will serve fine.
Like an open invention registry... for a sneaky chinese industrial spy? ;-)
\\But NOT the same in social/cultural effects.
Whole Open Source movment?
Now, 3D printing... sharing models for free.
You just do not know ALL sub-cultures in USA... because that is just NOT possible. To spend even a day in each nook and cranny... of the World.
\\Secret? Discounts?
\\Russian oil export revenue has increased by 50% since the start of 2022, generating close to $20 billion
Was there some restrictions on selling oil in 2022???
Naah.
And there was rise in prices inspired by war.
\\Despite sanctions from the West, Russia is expected to make...
Again. Sanctions against oil? Or gas?
That started in 2023.
And now... Rush'a have fall, budget deficit and secreted economical figures.
\\Russia has been selling its crude at steep discounts to Asia, in particular to China and India...
India. The bigest joke... :-)))
They sel it, yes. But... for induses rupias... which cannot be converted into anything else. And there is NOTHING in India Rush'a could by for that rupias. :-))))))))))))))))))))
\\To fly over castle walls and destroy what's inside (ala Game of Thrones). :)
No, it's different. And very prophetic. ;-)
Hoh.
Here it is
The Advantages of a Dragon. - Loper OS
www.loper-os.org › ...
He moves uncommonly slowly, as a worm does, and quite often violates the borders of Claustria and Lelipia. This creature devours something like ...
\\Ballistic missiles aren't hypersonic? Or only Mach5+ Scramjets are "legit" hypersonic tech?
Maybe F-15 ALSO hypersonic?
Paradox Heap -- how much (grain?) needed to make a heap?
\\Mafioso, of course.
Do mafiosos have codex of conduct? And punush severly those who breach it?
\\Machine is stopping now.
Really?
Well... that was what they was saying on the dawn of 20th century too.
;-P
Post-Soviet Lessons for a Post-American Century
Photo of Dmitry Orlov Dmitry Orlov Send an email •December 14, 20107 1 hours read
by Dmitry Orlov
A decade and a half ago the world went from bipolar to unipolar, because one of the poles fell apart: The S.U. is no more. The other pole – symmetrically named the U.S. – has not fallen apart – yet, but there are ominous rumblings on the horizon. The collapse of the United States seems about as unlikely now as the collapse of the Soviet Union seemed in 1985. The experience of the first collapse may be instructive to those who wish to survive the second.
The imagination gap, part 1
Mon 10 Dec 2018 by mskala Tags used: philosophy, psychology, politics, socialnet
A deficit in hypothetical cognition
In The World As If, Sarah Perry gives "an account of how magical thinking made us modern." She discusses how to define "magical thinking" and suggests that the diverse things to which people apply that label form "a collection of stigmatized examples of a more general, and generally useful, cognitive capacity." Namely, the capacity to entertain false, "not expected to be proven," or otherwise not exactly true propositions as if they were true.
Although magical thinking may often be called a behaviour of children or of those in primitive cultures, what Perry calls the "as if" mode of thought (I want to also include "what if") is in no way primitive. The view that magical thinking is for children and the uneducated can and should be inverted: mastery of hypothetical "as if" cognition is necessary for functioning as an adult in a literate technological society, and characteristic of the most sophisticated thinking human beings ever do.
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The ability to handle hypothetical entities and ask and answer "what if?" questions is central to serious thought.
What if someone couldn't do "what if?"
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Consider "theory of mind," which is used to describe the ability to recognize that minds other than your own (that is, other people's) really exist as distinct from yours. Other people know things you don't, or don't know things you do. What if you didn't know that? There was probably a time when, as a young child, you didn't.
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Julia Galef: Ahhhh the eternal choice between
- discussing a phenomenon without citing any examples, and having ppl object that it's not real, or
- discussing a phenomenon with examples, and having ppl nitpick the details of the particular examples you chose [source]
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Galef's quote above summarizes the dilemma well. With or without examples, there doesn't seem to be much hope of ever writing about a general pattern and expecting readers really to engage with it in its general form.
Yap... meta-thinking. ;-)
Machine stopping....
I did a cut&paste today from MS Project to MS Excel. Every date in the paste dated after 2030 changed from 2030 to 1930. Microsoft only fixed their Window's OS to be cut&paste compatible with other Microsoft Apps until 2030? Y2k bug is still here.
Like I said, the machine is stopping.
ps - that MS Project cut&paste i did was for a "what-if".
Innovations in steam engines have stopped in the beginning of 20th century too. ;-)
And what about other excerpt? Ams to Ams about SU?
Innovations in steam engines have stopped in the beginning of 20th century too.
Not entirely. The basic design of turbines/blades may have remained the same, but there were tweeks for automation, insulation, etc.
The other excerpt provides some valuable lessons for what may be in store for America's future, but I do look forward to a return to regional industries and markets. Problems can become "opportunities".
Interesting question... do you see some rough places there... as I see.
(like mitra over that two-headed chick)
\\Not entirely. The basic design of turbines/blades may have remained the same, but there were tweeks for automation, insulation, etc.
QED
\\Y2k bug is still here.
That's just legacy code. Yawn.
About "what if?" -- isn't we have common aquitance with such problem?
Necessity is the "mother of invention". I usually don't find myself doing "whay-ifs" unless I have to (current way blocked or unacceptable).
Oh... I meaned Derpy... who looks like totally oblivious to idea of "what if?".
Well... meta-thinking is dead simple.
As how Conan Doyle from his Sherlok said.
That one need to be concentrated, germetic in his thoughts, to master this or that ability.
But further... he reconsiled it, that income of new information is also impotant.
True. Still, we are FSMs, individually. Only by feeding from common pool of thoughts (aka noosphere) of Humanityt, we able to exceed our limitations... and even to create something even bigger...
So. Meta-thinking -- that is just a moment, when you able to discern that two states in yourself.
But what's next??? That is just a beginning of that rabbit hole... who dare to go down and down? ;-)
PS Poetic and/or unintelligible? ;-P
Well... cause our GOALS are visibly different. That's why there is no matching in meaning of words too... and there is nothing that can facilitate/communicate/force such matching. Isn't it?
I suppose there are "shared" moments.
ps - I enjoy "poetic".
Ehm... Hornblower? ;-)
Well... can be a fail in communication. But never the less, it was fun, to watch it second time. And like... after two decades. With much more sophisticated eyes.
Ehm???
Hornblower - Watch Episode - ITVX
www.itv.com › watch › hornblower
Drama series. In 1793, 17-year-old Horatio Hornblower begins his career in His Majesty's Navy, and must prove himself in battle when war is declared.
Hmmm... I thought... sails. Romantic past. But seems like missed something...
New series, or Gregory Peck movie?
New series?
Movie
or
series?
Hoh...
Now I'd need to add it to my list of ancient films to watch. :-)
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