.

And by a prudent flight and cunning save A life which valour could not, from the grave. A better buckler I can soon regain, But who can get another life again? Archilochus

Thursday, June 27, 2024

Entropy = Increasing Disorder? Think Again... Contextually Dependent Entropy?

from Wiki:

Order and disorder[edit]

Entropy is often loosely associated with the amount of order or disorder, or of chaos, in a thermodynamic system. The traditional qualitative description of entropy is that it refers to changes in the state of the system and is a measure of "molecular disorder" and the amount of wasted energy in a dynamical energy transformation from one state or form to another. In this direction, several recent authors have derived exact entropy formulas to account for and measure disorder and order in atomic and molecular assemblies.[62][63][64] One of the simpler entropy order/disorder formulas is that derived in 1984 by thermodynamic physicist Peter Landsberg, based on a combination of thermodynamics and information theory arguments. He argues that when constraints operate on a system, such that it is prevented from entering one or more of its possible or permitted states, as contrasted with its forbidden states, the measure of the total amount of "disorder" in the system is given by:[63][64]

Disorder =  Cd/Ci

Similarly, the total amount of "order" in the system is given by

:Order = 1 - Co/Ci

In which CD is the "disorder" capacity of the system, which is the entropy of the parts contained in the permitted ensemble, CI is the "information" capacity of the system, an expression similar to Shannon's channel capacity, and CO is the "order" capacity of the system.[62]

56 comments:

Anonymous said...

Distinction without differences.

Yawn.

Anonymous said...

Well... Shannon's "information quantity" is questionable too. ;-P

Anonymous said...

Watched debates... err, just read transcript. ;-P

And then just skimmed video.

What can I say -- all the same boring thing.

dRump looks more powerful -- because of reversal. in 2020 he was acting POTUS and Mister 33%(I think that is proper name of it, from now no) was challenger -- means, could only attack, while dRump needed to try to protect oneself, of which he not very proficient.

And now it reversed... and Bi... Mister 33% could not find what to answer -- apart from spinning same DEMN lies and propaganda.

So boring. :-/

Anonymous said...

\\BIDEN: We are the most admired country in the world. We’re the United States of America. There’s nothing beyond our capacity. We have the finest military in the history of the world. The finest in the history of the world. No one thinks we’re weak. No one wants to screw around with us. Nobody. Number one.

Yeah.

That's why liliPut disregards you and collude with Iran and NK.

And China speeding up to achieve M.A.D. levels.

What a dope.

Well... he DO NOT plan to live for that long -- to see and live through all that disasters that he planted numerous seeds... :-((((

Anonymous said...

\\ BIDEN: Look, the fact of the matter is that he’s dead wrong about it. He’s increased the tariff – he’s increased – he will increase the taxes on middle class people. I said I’d never raise a tax on anybody making less than $400,000. I didn’t.

Flat out lie.

That is INDIRECT taxes, that make lower wages people impoverish.

Taxes... like, inflation.

Or... high taxes on corporations, that make em unable to pay big wages, or even go abroad with their businesses -- there, where taxes are LOWER, and where wages are infinitely less.






Anonymous said...

Something... Mister 33% never got to read... it seems -- https://www.econlib.org/library/Essays/hykKnw.html

Yawn.

Anonymous said...

Look into his eyes...

-FJ the Dangerous and Extreme MAGA Jew said...

I watched about ten minutes of it. Same-old Same-o.

You won't see Biden for another week. He's spent, and needs time to recover from the drugs.

Anonymous said...

CNN gave transcript.

Anonymous said...

I saved it... for future reading.

And I bet -- it will be DEMN-splained, a lot (if not already... I saw they have runned *4* hours preliminaries -- to prepare people, how they need to look at it... and that 33% -- that is ones who was throught that preliminaries) ;-p

Joe Conservative said...

The visuals will matter much more than any words spoken by the candidates. The words will only matter to those more scientifically motivated viewers wishing to calculate the entropy remainders in Joe Biden's brain.

Anonymous said...

Well... I tried to read something from their wrinkled faces... but, language and cultural barriers be damned. ;-P

And... I doubt it matter, this time.

They both based their screeds on propaganda -- same DEMN-propaganda.

Which Bi-den cited... endlessly.

While dRump tried to perform judo move over...

Anonymous said...

They will be spreading this


Like this.

Linda Qiu

Linda Qiu
Fact-check Reporter
“He wants to raise your taxes by four times.”

— Former President Donald J. Trump
False.

Like it NOT Bi-den that bragged that he'd like to rob "those nasty burguios" for 500 billion. ;-P

Anonymous said...

Or this.


Linda Qiu

Linda Qiu
Fact-check Reporter
“Nancy Pelosi, if you just watched the news from two days ago on tape to her daughter who’s a documentary filmmaker, or they say what she’s saying, ‘Oh, no, it’s my responsibility. I was responsible for this.’ Because I offered them 10,000 soldiers are National Guard. And she turned them down.”

— Former President Donald J. Trump
This is misleading.

Mr. Trump is distorting what Representative Nancy Pelosi, then the House speaker, said. Ms. Pelosi did not admit to turning down National Guard troops. She does not have such authority.



PS DEMN-Truth. Yawn.

Now, after so many time spent with Derpy, I see it clearly.

Just an "innocent" skewing of perception.

-FJ the Dangerous and Extreme MAGA Jew said...

The country began this journey with giving Democrats the "benefit of the doubt". Last night demonstrated to many the perils of doing so to an unscrupulous overly-produced and so overly "self-interested" elite.

Anonymous said...

What is that word, to call a person that in respect to itself always self-excusing, and to others -- only full throttle blaming?

Fool? Hypocrite?

Well... that is definitely femalish behavior, isn't it? (or... there is cultural difference) "I am girl, therefore I am free and protected from: violence, need to carry big weights, do hard job in general and bore my mind with understanding all such manly-boring techy things".

-FJ the Dangerous and Extreme MAGA Jew said...

What is intelligence? It's entropy, creating order from disorder. 'ordered' fractals from chaos.

-FJ the Dangerous and Extreme MAGA Jew said...

Like the shaked cubes in the jar... a localized closed system.

-FJ the Dangerous and Extreme MAGA Jew said...

...the self aligning nails in the plastic case,

-FJ the Dangerous and Extreme MAGA Jew said...

...matter into information.

-FJ the Dangerous and Extreme MAGA Jew said...

...and biologically stored and now infinitely 'alterable'. in patterned electric fields? Entropy.

-FJ the Dangerous and Extreme MAGA Jew said...

A "generation from opposites" ala Hesiod's "Theogeny".

-FJ the Dangerous and Extreme MAGA Jew said...

Earth is a 'naturally formed' von Neumann probe.

Anonymous said...

\\What is intelligence? It's entropy, creating order from disorder. 'ordered' fractals from chaos.

You going too far, too fast.

What is Information? ;-)




\\...the self aligning nails in the plastic case,

Yep... if someone would shake it, properly.




\\...matter into information.

Is it? ;-)




\\A "generation from opposites" ala Hesiod's "Theogeny".

Wisdoms of the past...




\\Earth is a 'naturally formed' von Neumann probe.

Is it?

What is "natural" and what "non-natural" then? ;-)

-FJ the Dangerous and Extreme MAGA Jew said...

Natural. A process or result of a process NOT influenced by man.

-FJ the Dangerous and Extreme MAGA Jew said...

Entropy is a process of turning matter into information.

Entropy is central to the second law of thermodynamics, which states that the entropy of an isolated system left to spontaneous evolution cannot decrease with time. As a result, isolated systems evolve toward thermodynamic equilibrium, where the entropy is highest. A consequence of the second law of thermodynamics is that certain processes are irreversible.

Anonymous said...

\\Natural. A process or result of a process NOT influenced by man.

Ahh-hah... you already forgot.

That quip from Lem's text.

Let's assume that we are secret agents... and we established VERY SECRET channel of information -- through urinal. If needed, I'll be swallowing something with lots of sugar, and you'd be tasting my piss.

Will sugar in my piss be "natural"? Or "artifical"? ;-)




\\Entropy is a process of turning matter into information.

Can elaborate DETAILS of that process? ;-)




\\Entropy is central to the second law of thermodynamics, which states that the entropy of an isolated system left to spontaneous evolution cannot decrease with time.

Well... that's just a postulate.

postulate
noun: postulate; plural noun: postulates
/ˈpɒstjʊlət/

a thing suggested or assumed as true as the basis for reasoning, discussion, or belief.

We -- freakingly DUNNO, to what extent and under what circumstances it right.




\\As a result, isolated systems evolve toward thermodynamic equilibrium, where the entropy is highest.

One little problem.

We do not know EVEN ONE system which is utterly and completely isolated. ;-P

And... we know about vacuum foam. ;-)


Quantum foam
Wikipedia
https://en.wikipedia.org › wiki › Quantum_foam
The vacuum fluctuations provide vacuum with a non-zero energy known as vacuum energy. Spin foam theory is a modern attempt to make Wheeler's idea quantitative.

Anonymous said...

Have you checked out that link -- https://www.nytimes.com/live/2024/06/27/us/biden-trump-debate-fact-check

All that "misleading", "exaggerated". ;-P

Hilarious.

And later (people like DiBi) will be hawling "did you see FactCheck cites -- they REVEALED ALL dRump's LIES!!!!!!! HOW CAN'T YOU SEE IT!!!! *YOU* *MIGHT* *BE* ***INSANE***!!!!!!!!%$^%@#$$"

-FJ the Dangerous and Extreme MAGA Jew said...

Will sugar in my piss be "natural"? Or "artifical"? ;-)

It would be "UNnatural." ;p

As the Greeks say, "Know thy self!"

Anonymous said...

\\It would be "UNnatural." ;p

Really?

And you know OBJECTIVE test to prove it? ;-P

Again -- we are secret agents -- NOBODY apart as two will know about it.

Anonymous said...

Such a claim is nowhere better than a claim -- "I know Sun shining at me... because there is god Ra... and he benevolent toward me" -- which makes Sun "UNnatural" too. ;-)

Anonymous said...

Body language... ;-P

-FJ the Dangerous and Extreme MAGA Jew said...

Sure. It's a LOGIC test. Either YOU know it. Or I know it. THAT doesn't mean we BOTH know it. Happy drinking!

-FJ the Dangerous and Extreme MAGA Jew said...

Taste sweet? I'm pre-diabetic.

-FJ the Dangerous and Extreme MAGA Jew said...

Your model is based upon successful "communication". Mine is not.

-FJ the Dangerous and Extreme MAGA Jew said...

ps - if I were a dog, we'd BOTH know.

-FJ the Dangerous and Extreme MAGA Jew said...

erratum - If we were BOTH dogs, we'd BOTH know.

-FJ the Dangerous and Extreme MAGA Jew said...

For dogs communicate "differently" (smells).

-FJ the Dangerous and Extreme MAGA Jew said...

They leave each other "pee-mails".

-FJ the Dangerous and Extreme MAGA Jew said...

Information can be seen as data that has been organized or processed in a way that adds context or meaning. It's raw facts and figures that have been structured but not yet interpreted or fully understood.

-FJ the Dangerous and Extreme MAGA Jew said...

btw - I think I'll run your pee through a distiller and mass spectrometer at my end before drinking. What you do at your end is your business.

-FJ the Dangerous and Extreme MAGA Jew said...

:P

Anonymous said...

\\Sure. It's a LOGIC test. Either YOU know it. Or I know it. THAT doesn't mean we BOTH know it. Happy drinking!

Ehm???

And from where that "drinking", here?



\\Your model is based upon successful "communication". Mine is not.

That's squints.

Relativistic intelligence, WTF??? ;-)




\\They leave each other "pee-mails".

But "natural"... not "UNnatural".

Fingerprints -- not images on a cave wall. ;-)




\\Information can be seen as data that has been organized or processed in a way that adds context or meaning. It's raw facts and figures that have been structured but not yet interpreted or fully understood.

Yeah.

That's the problem with SUCH definition of information.

It needs Point of Origin.

And somebody Conscious and Intelligent need to be in that point.

As Initial Messenger.(one who created all that mess ;-P)




\\btw - I think I'll run your pee through a distiller and mass spectrometer at my end before drinking. What you do at your end is your business.

Yep. That'll be "UNnatural" way.

Or... gave it to leak to some dog -- and watch at its face. :-))))

Anonymous said...

at pShaw's



Convicted criminal? So... when we'd see him in jail?

You know, that is where "convicted criminals" reside.

But... he going on debates, with Biden... who should be responsible for PUTTiNG him in jail.

Isn't it hilarious?

Anonymous said...

BTW... watched Maverick... what a damn feirytale... turned to eleven. :-)))))))))))))))))))))))))

-FJ the Dangerous and Extreme MAGA Jew said...

That's the same Cold War thinking that drew Ukrainians into a war with Russia.

-FJ the Dangerous and Extreme MAGA Jew said...

It needs Point of Origin.
And somebody Conscious and Intelligent need to be in that point.
As Initial Messenger.(one who created all that mess ;-P)


No, like an element in the periodic table, it merely has to present space for a single electron to park itself from another molecule and be anchored by the protons clustered in its' nucleus.

Anonymous said...

\\That's the same Cold War thinking that drew Ukrainians into a war with Russia.

Not Russia (and to big extent USA gerontocracy) insanity -- desire to turn clocks back into 80th, and re-try??? %-))))) What was NOT tried that time.(by Tim clany script, for example)




\\No, like an element in the periodic table, it merely has to present space for a single electron to park itself from another molecule and be anchored by the protons clustered in its' nucleus.

I was talking about Shannon's definition of what information is.

It based on postulated "channel of information" and operates within attributes of it.

You are correct -- that behavior of atoms and electrons -- it's also information.

But... do we have theory of it? ;-)







-FJ the Dangerous and Extreme MAGA Jew said...

I think we do. It's called "entropy".

-FJ the Dangerous and Extreme MAGA Jew said...

Perhap's Shannon's is more a "communication theory". That's the problem I have with AI. It's superficially a "communications" solution, not an assembly theory based curation of information. It's based on a theory of rehashing that (partially) with all the garbage human communications surrounding it.

-FJ the Dangerous and Extreme MAGA Jew said...

How's it supposed to reach a higher level of "intelligence"? It's like the jar of dice before the jar is spun.

-FJ the Dangerous and Extreme MAGA Jew said...

...you don't get any "understanding" of the intelligence in the output, simply a re-pouring of dice into the beaker.

Anonymous said...

\\I think we do. It's called "entropy".

Bleh.

It's statistics hell. ;-P




\\Perhap's Shannon's is more a "communication theory".

Well... it's easy to see -- that he did not planned any extended use of it.

Only immediate practical use.

But... now we trying to use it for EVERYTHING (like about "information entropy" in Black Holes) %-))))))))))))))))))))



\\That's the problem I have with AI.

Can you elaborate, please?




\\not an assembly theory based curation of information.

That assembly theory is BS too.

Yawn.




\\How's it supposed to reach a higher level of "intelligence"?

Is there any such "higher levels" even exist???

One who are rational and science-knowing -- must ask oneself -- we know that Evolution create all kinds of random beats.

And it crated many billions of humans.

Why then we DO NOT see such a "higher level" intellectual prodigies? ;-P

Something... do not add ups.


Anonymous said...

\\...you don't get any "understanding" of the intelligence in the output, simply a re-pouring of dice into the beaker.

???

Anonymous said...

About AI.

Science -- is pretty useless without experimental data. And we, freakingly cannot run such tests on humans (like with dissecting em in the end, like we do with lab mice)

And not because of any moral limitations -- it's just impractical.

So... here comes idea of "versatile soft-bodied robots" -- two birds with one stone -- experiments in AI... AND, technology that could create such wonders as probe to other stars... eventually. ;-)

-FJ the Dangerous and Extreme MAGA Jew said...

It's been done. ;)