Gregg Jaeger, "The universe is not made of information"
Why observering quantum events doesn't make them real
Many physicists and computer scientists, from John Wheeler to Google Deepmind's Demis Hassabis, have argued that reality is fundamentally made of information. Wheeler called this "it from bit". But this is mistaken, argues Boston University physicist and philosopher of science, Gregg Jaeger. Information supposes a relation between the information itself and its physical encoding. Reality cannot be made of information, because without already existing physical objects to encode it, information does not exist.
Is the universe made of bits of information? Physicist John Wheeler took this radical idea extremely seriously. His interest in it can be traced at least as far back as his time as a post-doctoral scientist in Copenhagen under one of the founders of quantum theory, Niels Bohr. Wheeler supported Bohr’s view of quantum events and later summarized it with the statement “No elementary phenomenon is a phenomenon until it is an observed phenomenon.’’ Bohr emphasized that the conditions of an object’s measurement not only offer experimental questions but also make a difference as to what is found upon quantum measurement. Wheeler advanced this perspective throughout his career, arguing that phenomena also have an essential informational aspect: the elementary quantum phenomenon “has a pure yes-no character—one bit of meaning.” Noting that what happens in an individual, non-trivial measurement is not predetermined, Wheeler supposed that the observed object itself is the information gained when a quantum state is measured for. He expressed this idea by the phrase: “It from bit’’. Here, I will argue against this idea because, according to well-confirmed physics and cognitive psychology, all observational information is acquired from the properties of existing physical objects, however indeterminate those measured properties may be beforehand.Wheeler’s “Meaning Circuit”___Wheeler supported Bohr’s view of quantum events and later summarized it with the statement “No elementary phenomenon is a phenomenon until it is an observed phenomenon.’’___
Wheeler had already begun wrangling with quantum phenomena when he joined the Manhattan Project, where his project colleague John von Neumann worked out the algorithmic theory of classical computers, long before there was any notion of the quantum computer or computer networking. But by the end of the 1970s, after the first substantial computer network (ARPAnet) had been established (in 1969), Wheeler had formulated the idea that the universe is a “meaning circuit”, a “system self-synthesized by quantum networking”. Wheeler’s “networking” is the communication of data by observers whom he calls “quantum participators” because their observations, which he calls the “iron posts” of reality, are the basis of further experimentation and scientific theorizing. This “meaning circuit’’ is of two sides, one of meaning and information and another of physics and engineering, and is supposed to give rise progressively to existence itself. Given that knowledge of objects increases with experience, it might appear that Wheeler has done well by having conceived of this Meaning Circuit.
What makes the Meaning Circuit a rational thought product for its time—and note that Wheeler himself considers it merely a hypothesis—is that new notions of the mind-matter relation were then in the air. Before its proposal, novel mind-matter hypotheses had appeared, for example, in conversations between the physicist Wolfgang Pauli and the psychologist Carl Jung regarding the Synchronicity concept dealing with the human witnessing of any coincidental events connectable by meaning. And a role for consciousness in the occurrence of quantum events had been increasingly contemplated by others in the face of difficulties in solving the so-called measurement problem: Can quantum mechanical law explain how experimental results arise? In 1961, the mathematical physicist Eugene Wigner had already considered the idea that consciousness, the receiver of information, might be required for a quantum measurement to take place, and offered the following thought experiment. Wigner is to ask a friend about the friend’s measurement of an object in a quantum superposition state (for some quantity of interest). According to quantum mechanical law, the friend’s actions before Wigner’s query result in two, apparently contradictory physical descriptions of the quantity of interest: that of the friend, which appears to the friend as definite for the quantity, and that of Wigner, which for him, is not definite for its value (for Wigner, the friend-object system enters a quantum superposition of states for differing values of the quantity). This difficulty might be resolved by supposing, for example, that the consciousness of the friend directly brings about the definitive value in the world for both these scientists.
The Physicality of Measurement
In our era of the Internet and quantum computer research, the Meaning Circuit world picture may appear plausible, and it might appear even more so if a quantum-mechanical Internet is established in the future. But the existence generated in the Meaning Circuit resembles an all-encompassing virtual reality rather than the physical universe, and the meaning circuit idea is abstract, physically vague, and scientifically unsupported. No matter how much human planning and choice may be involved in experimentation, there is no evident process, however long and complex, describable by physical laws and/or cognitive psychology such that the data of the mental world could give rise to the physical world. In physics, if a law does not explain some process either completely or correctly, then there must be something wrong with the law, or with how it is being applied to the conception of measurement. And, according to cognitive psychology, we obtain knowledge of physical events by becoming aware that they have taken place, however much we may be involved in the design, construction, and carrying out of experiments.
Tempting though the idea that information or consciousness itself could create physical events or objects may be as a means to resolve the measurement problem, the postulation of a novel, but physically irreducible mental cause of physical events or objects is not explanatory because it has no empirical basis. In the absence of such a basis, all physical events, including measurements, must be explained independently of consciousness, and mental events related to them can be explained as cognitive processes associated with the activity of the brain and nervous system. Any observer’s mind can only bear witness to physical processes via the senses, which react in a way for which there is detailed evidence: The mind gains information about physical events by reference to cognitive maps and other mental representations. And any knowledge so gained can only be communicated to others via language. It is evident, then, that the physical universe was not and is not created by information because the physical bodies of observers, their experimental tools, and the objects of observation must all first exist physically for anyone to be informed of any measurement or to communicate knowledge of it. Indeed, the observation of physical measurement processes gives rise to new mental states of which the observing subject may initially not even be consciously aware.
It and Bit
Consider a simple quantum measurement of the sort Wheeler brings into his discussions of the “It from bit” hypothesis: finding the polarization of a light particle. If a photon begins in a quantum superposition of two orthogonal polarization states and is then measured for them, just one of those polarization values is found. (The value can be found, for example, by noting the direction in which the photon is detected after it has entered a polarization-selecting beamsplitter.) A perfectly designed such measurement makes exactly one bit of information available to the senses via a signal, such as a click from a photon detector, a mark on paper, or an illuminated pixel on a computer screen, according to a coding scheme. This signal can then cause neural excitations in a brain (a neural state, via the senses) that are nearly perfectly correlated with the found polarization value, allowing an observer to gain information about it by conscious attention and inference from previous knowledge of the circumstances and coding scheme. No bit concerning the world is inherently objective; at best, it can be meaningfully related to objective reality by reference to an intersubjectively agreed-upon scientific description of the world.___Wheeler had formulated the idea that the universe is a “meaning circuit”, a “system self-synthesized by quantum networking”.___Although a piece of physical hardware such as an orientable magnetic region is sometimes called a “bit”, such an object itself is not information. Any given bit of information can in principle be encoded via any robust two-valued property of any sort of physical object—for example, instead of a click sounding from a particular photon detector as considered above, one of two pixels or regions of a computer display could be lit. And if a process physically identical to a measurement takes place but there is no agreed-upon encoding of the final state of the apparatus, or if there is ‘encoding’ in some unknowable code (say, its designer dies without providing a `Rosetta Stone’ for it), then no measurement information is present. Any supposed information attributed to an event without an agreed-upon encoding is just that: supposed information created by the mental imposition of a code on a physical state. Information cannot constitute the physical universe or any part of it, but every bit of information about the universe depends on at least one physical object.Further Reading:Jaeger, G. (2023). On Wheeler’s Quantum Circuit.
In: Plotnitsky, A., Haven, E. (eds) The Quantum-Like Revolution.
Springer, Cham. https://doi.org/10.1007/978-3-031-12986-5_2
Jaeger, G. (2018). Clockwork Rebooted: Is the universe a computer?
In: Khrennikov, A., Toni, B. (eds.) Quantum Foundations, Probability and Information.
Springer, Cham. https://doi.org/10.1007/978-3-319-74971-6_8
J.A. Wheeler, W. Zurek (eds.) (1983) Quantum Theory and Measurement.
Princeton University Press, Princeton.
"Existence precedes essence!"- Jean-Paul Sartre
Essence being a description (information vis) of what is/ was "necessary" to establish and then maintain "existence" (subsistence)?
---
Marx and Engels on Historical Materialism (Broad Overview):
The German Ideology"The first premise of all human history is, of course, the existence of living human individuals. Thus the first fact to be established is the physical organisation of these individuals and their consequent relation to the rest of nature....Men can be distinguished from animals by consciousness, by religion or anything else you like. They themselves begin to distinguish themselves from animals as soon as they begin to produce their means of subsistence, a step which is conditioned by their physical organisation. By producing their means of subsistence men are indirectly producing their actual material life.Socialism: Utopian and Scientific"The materialist conception of history starts from the proposition that the production of the means to support human life and, next to production, the exchange of things produced, is the basis of all social structure; that in every society that has appeared in history, the manner in which wealth is distributed and society divided into classes or orders is dependent upon what is produced, how it is produced, and how the products are exchanged. From this point of view, the final causes of all social changes and political revolutions are to be sought, not in men's brains, not in men's better insights into eternal truth and justice, but in changes in the modes of production and exchange.
"It's just Incomplete" (Goedel)
207 comments:
1 – 200 of 207 Newer› Newest»What is information, indeed?
Is it words spoken? Is it letters printed? Is it signals in a wire?
Only one thing unite all that examples -- non-monotonous.
There need to be some changes, something need to be changing. And change of that something -- we can call "information".
And that is... as much as we can do. Without falling intowormhole of metaphysics... where are "turtles, all way down"
Where is the Life we have lost in living? Where is the wisdom we have lost in knowledge? Where is the knowledge we have lost in information?
T. S. Eliot
Sophism "you have horns". Yawn.
Sophism "Get a Life!". ;0
"Get a life" is not a sophism. It's a common expression, not a deliberately invalid or deceptive argument. A sophism is a fallacious argument used to mislead, while "get a life" is an often dismissive or critical remark meant to suggest that someone should focus on something other than the topic at hand.
Here's why:
Sophism:
A sophism is a type of logical fallacy, a flawed argument that appears to be sound but is not. It involves deceptive reasoning and is often used to win an argument or deceive someone.
"Get a life":
This phrase is an exclamation, not an argument. It expresses irritation or disapproval of someone's actions or focus, suggesting they are wasting their time on something unimportant.
Essentially, a sophism is a form of intellectual dishonesty, while "get a life" is a form of emotional expression.
For example:
Sophism:
A politician might use a false dilemma to argue that their opponent is either incompetent or malicious, when there are other possibilities. This is a sophism because it presents a limited and misleading choice.
"Get a life":
Someone might say "get a life" to a person who is obsessively focused on a video game, implying they should spend their time on more meaningful activities.
The sophism "you have horns" is a classic example of a logical fallacy, specifically a sophism of presupposition. It plays on the idea that someone hasn't lost something they never had in the first place, thus implying they possess it. The argument hinges on the trick of presupposing the existence of horns in the first place, which is not a valid premise.
Here's a breakdown:
The Argument:
The sophism typically works by stating, "You have not lost your horns. Therefore, you still have them."
The Flaw:
The initial premise, "you have horns," is false. The argument assumes the existence of horns without justification, making it a faulty starting point.
Sophistry:
This type of argument is a sophism because it uses a clever but deceptive trick of logic to reach a seemingly true conclusion (that you have horns) when the underlying premise is false.
Origin:
This sophism is often attributed to the Greek philosopher Eubulides.
PS ALL as you like. Even ancient greeks involved. ;-p
You really think you can lecture a Philo-Soph on Soph-istry? The truth or falseness of a "wisdom" (soph) is situation dependent. They are "opposed" to other wisdoms. Like Virtue itself temperance:courage::justice"wisdom.
Yes, "get a life" is an expression, one of "wisdom". When someone is meddling in YOUR business, you tell them to "get a life"... another way of saying "mind you own business"... whereas you have horns implies I'm worried about and meddling in someone elese's business.
Every wisdom is a fallacy. It's situationally dependent.
What is virtue? Plato, "Laches"
I will tell you. He and I have a notion that there is not one knowledge or science of the past, another of the present, a third of what is likely to be best and what will be best in the future; but that of all three there is one science only: for example, there is one science of medicine which is concerned with the inspection of health equally in all times, present, past, and future; and one science of husbandry in like manner, which is concerned with the productions of the earth in all times. As to the art of the general, you yourselves will be my witnesses that he has an excellent foreknowledge of the future, and that he claims to be the master and not the servant of the soothsayer, because he knows better what is happening or is likely to happen in war: and accordingly the law places the soothsayer under the general, and not the general under the soothsayer. Am I not correct in saying so, Laches?
LACHES: Quite correct.
SOCRATES: And do you, Nicias, also acknowledge that the same science has understanding of the same things, whether future, present, or past?
NICIAS: Yes, indeed Socrates; that is my opinion.
SOCRATES: And courage, my friend, is, as you say, a knowledge of the fearful and of the hopeful?
NICIAS: Yes.
SOCRATES: And the fearful, and the hopeful, are admitted to be future goods and future evils?
NICIAS: True.
SOCRATES: And the same science has to do with the same things in the future or at any time?
NICIAS: That is true.
SOCRATES: Then courage is not the science which is concerned with the fearful and hopeful, for they are future only; courage, like the other sciences, is concerned not only with good and evil of the future, but of the present and past, and of any time?
NICIAS: That, as I suppose, is true.
SOCRATES: Then the answer which you have given, Nicias, includes only a third part of courage; but our question extended to the whole nature of courage: and according to your view, that is, according to your present view, courage is not only the knowledge of the hopeful and the fearful, but seems to include nearly every good and evil without reference to time. What do you say to that alteration in your statement?
NICIAS: I agree, Socrates.
SOCRATES: But then, my dear friend, if a man knew all good and evil, and how they are, and have been, and will be produced, would he not be perfect, and wanting in no virtue, whether justice, or temperance, or holiness? He would possess them all, and he would know which were dangers and which were not, and guard against them whether they were supernatural or natural; and he would provide the good, as he would know how to deal both with gods or men.
NICIAS: I think, Socrates, that there is a great deal of truth in what you say.
SOCRATES: But then, Nicias, courage, according to this new definition of yours, instead of being a part of virtue only, will be all virtue?
NICIAS: It would seem so.
SOCRATES: But we were saying that courage is one of the parts of virtue?
NICIAS: Yes, that was what we were saying.
SOCRATES: And that is in contradiction with our present view?
NICIAS: That appears to be the case.
SOCRATES: Then, Nicias, we have not discovered what courage is.
NICIAS: We have not.
Of course... *I*... can. ;-)
Cause my teacher of philosophy Stanislav Lem. ;-p
Most NEWEST philosopher up to date.
//another way of saying "mind you own business"
And of course you dunno that story about MYOB
A wisdom is usually a "charm" to "temperance"... to dis-courage and cure the head of another. A wisdom is something that goes against "justice", which is to give the other his "due"... which means to not treat him as an object to be manipulated... not a means to an end, but a means to himself.
I only know one story of myob...
Opposed virtues... opposed wisdoms.
"Mind Your Business" is why capitalism now rules the world. Thanks Ben Franklin!
Capitalism is the extreme "pole" of Commerce (commerce being the ideal that I hope the world will one day return to). It's the surplus tool of commerce used by the entrepeneur (user) and lender of capital (as a commodity)
It's what killed "religion"... as the charging of interest on capital was once considered a "sin" of "usery".
//Every wisdom is a fallacy. It's situationally dependent.
Except invariants.
(walking into lectorium, rising indignantly on a cathedra, opening foliant of Wisdom Scrolls) ;-p
Invariants are properties or conditions that remain unchanged under certain transformations or operations. They are used to define the essential characteristics of a system, object, or process that are preserved regardless of how it evolves or is manipulated. Invariants are crucial for understanding system behavior, verifying correctness, and simplifying analysis.
In different contexts:
Mathematics:
Invariants are properties of mathematical objects that stay the same under specific transformations. For example, the area of a triangle is invariant under rotations and translations in the Euclidean plane.
Physics:
In physics, invariants are properties of a system that don't change under certain transformations, like changes in reference frames. For example, the speed of light is an invariant, meaning it remains the same for all observers.
Computer Science:
Invariants are used to define properties of data structures or algorithms that must hold true throughout their execution. For example, a loop invariant in a sorting algorithm ensures that the elements are sorted up to a certain point at each iteration, according to Wikipedia.
Software Engineering:
Invariants are used to maintain the integrity of software systems by defining conditions that must be true at all times, like in class invariants, which are properties that must be true for all instances of a class.
General Usage:
More broadly, invariants can be conditions or relationships that are always true during the execution of a system, program, or process. They act as checks to ensure that the system behaves as expected and that its integrity is maintained.
Key aspects of invariants:
Definition:
An invariant is a property that remains unchanged under specified transformations or operations.
Purpose:
They help to understand, analyze, and verify the behavior of systems by highlighting constant properties.
Applications:
Invariants are used in various fields like mathematics, physics, computer science, and software engineering.
Types:
There are different types of invariants, such as class invariants in object-oriented programming, loop invariants in algorithms, and physical invariants in physics.
In essence, invariants are fundamental concepts that help define and maintain the stability and correctness of systems across different domains.
//SOCRATES: But then, Nicias, courage, according to this new definition of yours, instead of being a part of virtue only, will be all virtue?
NICIAS: It would seem so.
SOCRATES: But we were saying that courage is one of the parts of virtue?
NICIAS: Yes, that was what we were saying.
SOCRATES: And that is in contradiction with our present view?
NICIAS: That appears to be the case.
SOCRATES: Then, Nicias, we have not discovered what courage is.
NICIAS: We have not.
Set of ALL sets that do not contain other sets.
Yawn.
Does the set of all sets contain?
Indeed, with our naive definition of a set, it is tempting to consider a set of everything, or a set of all sets. Naturally, being itself a set, the set of all sets would also have to contain itself as an element.
Russell's Paradox: Here's Why Math Can't Have A Set Of Everything
//which means to not treat him as an object to be manipulated... not a means to an end, but a means to himself.
Whatever.
//"Mind Your Business" is why capitalism now rules the world. Thanks Ben Franklin!
Rules? ;-p
For now it more like it BOWing. Before tyrants.
//Capitalism is the extreme "pole" of Commerce (commerce being the ideal that I hope the world will one day return to). It's the surplus tool of commerce used by the entrepeneur (user) and lender of capital (as a commodity)
Under very narrow conditions... yawn.
Even the speed of light changes dependent upon the material it passes thru. Hence the light spectrum produced in a prism. In other words, there are no "invariants".
And there is no "sameness". There is only difference and repetition.
Courage, Temperance, Wisdom and Justice are all subsets of the set called 'Virtue'... not a set of all sets.
Rules Indeed. Some labour resists commodification by means of culture. Putin is employing it in his resistance to the commodification of Russian land and its inherent resources.
The cultureless slave is commodified labour. He doesn't get Sunday's off to go to church.
//instead of being a part of virtue only, will be all virtue?
Ah. So? There is NO Conservation of matter and energy? ;-p
)))))))))))))))))
By starting imperialistic war to feed his capitalists????
SOCRATES: And that is in contradiction with our present view?
NICIAS: That appears to be the case.
SOCRATES: Then, Nicias, we have not discovered what courage is.
NICIAS: We have not.
Courage is not all of virtue, it's a part.
Shakespeare, "Hamlet"
A thought which, quarter'd, hath but one part wisdom
And ever three parts coward,
...or to keep them from having their own labour supply commodified for use by the competition (western oligarchs).
Oligarchs now run America. Authoritarian elitist conservative oligarchs.
Energy and momentum are related to the wave properties of particles: In quantum mechanics, energy and momentum are linked to the frequency and wavelength of the matter wave associated with a particle.
In simpler terms: Imagine a car moving. Its momentum tells you how much "push" it has, and its energy tells you how much work it could do (like pushing another car). Both are related to its motion, but momentum is about its direction and speed, while energy is about its capacity for action.
//When I go abroad I sometimes ask myself whether I could live, say, somewhere in the West as a writer. And the answer is no Why? I will not discuss the many interrelated issues, but will dwell on the purely professional aspects. When I'm abroad and talk to Western writers, I always come up against a strange circumstance: They don't understand us, we don't understand them. They don't understand the nature and character of our literature, the role the writer plays in Soviet society. They don't understand that the aims determining the creative effort of Soviet writers differ from those of Western writers.
https://www.sovlit.net/granin1971/
As always.
Yawn.
Yep.
Better em die in trenches... then work in cosy and safe offices.
Yawn.
Yeah. Because "set of all sets"... we still dunno what it is. As in times of Socrates. As now.
Means.
The "argument to unknown fallacy" is more commonly known as the argument from ignorance or appeal to ignorance (Latin: argumentum ad ignorantiam).
This informal fallacy occurs when a proposition is asserted to be true because it has not been proven false, or conversely, asserted to be false because it has not been proven true. In essence, it wrongly shifts the burden of proof onto the person challenging the claim, rather than requiring the one making the claim to provide supporting evidence.
Key characteristics of the argument from ignorance fallacy:
Absence of evidence is treated as evidence:
The core of the fallacy lies in assuming that a lack of proof for or against a claim automatically proves its opposite.
Shifting the burden of proof:
Instead of presenting evidence for their own claim, the arguer demands that the opponent disprove it.
Ignoring the possibility of unknown or unknowable information:
It assumes that if something isn't currently known, it must therefore be one of only two options (true or false), disregarding the possibility of a third state: unknown or unknowable.
Examples:
"No one has ever proven that ghosts don't exist, therefore, ghosts must be real."
"You can't prove that aliens haven't visited Earth, so they must have."
"Since scientists haven't found a cure for this disease, it must be incurable."
Yep.
Invariants. ;-p
Who cares? Not I.
The evil triad of idiocy: Donald J. Trump, Benjamin Netanyahu, and Vladimir Putin. The three very grotesque and extremely evil A-holes .
They CAN impose their views on you. And you can't.
You can only continue screaming about -- how you don't care.
Yawn.
Metamorphosizing "invariants".
Catepillars are "invariant"... only the butterflies vary. @@
Plato's argument is an argument from ignorance, but with Apollonian "right opinion". Dionysus was part of the cult of Artemis. ;)
"argument to unknown fallacy" vs Argument to a fallacious known... the "Road to Larissa". As per Karl Popper's "Science", the proposition must be disprovable. How can you disprove the proposition that "all swans are black"? By finding a non-black one. How can you disprove the proposition that "there aren't any non-black swans"? By finding a non-black swan". This is the logic of Artemis. The logic of Apollo "floats" upon Delos, a floating island. You "afix" its' unknown position with "right opinion".
Can you know the position of a particle and its' momentum/speed at the same time? Ask Heisenberg.
What is "the Good" (virtue) and how is it produced past/present/and future. I don't know. I only have "right opinion". Good vs Common Good? Same. Humanities, not Sciences.
...and then kicked out of work and office by an AI.
The Dems offshore the jobs. Trump brings them back.
Both Western and Soviet writers write with activist "noble purpose". Orwell says that Miller dwells in the belly of the whale, without political purpose. I think that I, for one, prefer the "quietist" Miller.... but like Rushdie in the end say, "Meden Agan". After all, we all must live "outside the whale".
Ever hear of Vorticism? ;)
They say that if you live inside the center of a vortex, things can be very quiet. For me, that's America. Unfortunately, everyone that lives there still screams alot. They like to Scream above the sounds of the vortex... even when its' making no sounds. ;)
No one, absolutely NO ONE can impose their views on you UNLESS you willingly give up your agency and ALLOW it.
EXACTLY as the conditioning YOU'VE been exposed to and willingly accepted has caused YOU to make such a F**king absurd statement.
So... you deny direct fact -- opinion of that same soviet author.
Ou'Key.
Yeah. Guantanamo, Chinese re-educationcamps, GULAG.
CANNOT impose their views. In accordance with some DEMN sissy,that was not even spunked once, for saying something against "those who know better".
Ou'Key, I say.
//-FJ the Dangerous and Extreme MAGA Jew
They say that if you live inside the center of a vortex, things can be very quiet. For me, that's America. Unfortunately, everyone that lives there still screams alot. They like to Scream above the sounds of the vortex... even when its' making no sounds. ;)
You know, obviously. That that center moving. And biggest winds, exactly on its sides.(that's exactly what I pointing to here, toyou)
//Can you know the position of a particle and its' momentum/speed at the same time? Ask Heisenberg.
Yawn. That's the same in our mundane macroworld too.
Imagine, you agreed to meet with your pal at some good pub.
Will you know a time when you'll meet? Well, knowing your pal, you can easily predict -- will he be on time. Or how much you'd need to wait him.
BUT. Not exact path he'd be using.
And vice versa.
You meet with your pal already. And decided to go to that pub together.
Will you know precise path, you'll go through? Well, for sure.
But, will you know time you'll arrive to that pub??? Or you will change your mind on the whim
//What is "the Good" (virtue) and how is it produced past/present/and future. I don't know. I only have "right opinion". Good vs Common Good? Same. Humanities, not Sciences.
That's because you ignoring (deliberately) such branches as Evolution Theory. And/or Game Theory.
And all newer discoveries.
Because. Evolution Theory states border limits of how alive creature can behave -- like, taking risks? yes.Deliberate suicide? No.
And etc.
//Metamorphosizing "invariants".
Nah.
Invariants™
Like that invariant, that you will not try to catch falling brick with your head.
Or... that you need to intake some food. Daily.
Or... etc, etc, etc.
PS See. You again trying to go around it. To wiggle. And to redirect.
But. I will not be screaming "you are wrong", like DEMNs. You can wiggle till your heart content, on my watch. ;-)
Meden agan isn't denial. It's the "all the time support" part that I deny. I don't believe in affirmative action for communism.
I'm just a Muselmann during the Shoah...
That what turns men into "rags" (Isaiah Berlin to George Kennan letter 1951)
Isolated in the solitary confinement of cyberspace and fed hyper-reality sh*t all day.
...a prisoner in Plato's cave.
Well... here is his biography -- https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Daniil_Granin
Playing the "guess the shadow" games of Psychopolitics
That was response to that OTHER anon.
Yawn.
I was agreeing with you.
Other then that... we all are such prisoners. Without hope prisoners. With no chance of escape as that duke Montecristo
Oh, they made a new version
IMDb
https://www.imdb.com › title
·
duke monte cristo from www.imdb.com
After escaping from an island prison where he spent 14 years for being wrongly accused of state treason, Edmond Dantès returns as the Count of Monte Cristo
Yes, the eye of the storm won't remain quiet forever. It will inevitably pass over this spot, again and again and again. But that doesn't mean we should rush into those winds, when we have the opportunity to remain in the eye for a bit longer.
-FJ the Dangerous and Extreme MAGA Jew
I was agreeing with you.
I got it.:-)
I'll be early, so I can prepare to loosen my tongue. And I'll be taking the Road to Larisa to get there. ;)
Heh. But isn't rushing to a shelter. Building one. Closing doors and windows for at least... would be wise.
You just not from that part of USA where tornados rampaging?
So which Edmound Dantes wore the mask? The one in the prison cell, or the escapee? I'd have to believe that it was the latter that had to hide who he was.
See...
What allowed to you, why not allowed to bovi... I mean, an electron.;-p
We all wearing masks...
No, the Sciences don't have all the answers. They merely improve the probabilities of having "right opinion".
Public life, Private life, and secret life. The secret life is "unmasked".
"Diogenes".
Means of Contact and Entanglement.
But it can tell with good certainty -- what answers it can give, and what it can't.
And also gives good instruments of how to find answers.
While everybody else, is just snake oil sellers.
Especially ones who proclaim giving all answers.
Why you trying to seek for truth... from crooks and liars??? %)
We get a few... only I watch the news/weather radar before rushing into my basement.
Oh, please... :-)))
I prefer long dead crooks and liars, Lindy style. :)
Well... then you already know what weather forecast says (about USA not ready to withstand might of China)
And I don't "trust the science", especially when "new" and "experimental" (ala Covid).
That's... even worse.
But, whatever. That is your choice.
Sorry, I lean towards Heraclitus.
Everything is Difference and Repetition... entropy.
...and ABSOLUTE (not accidental or relative) Difference.
There is no "same".
According to you, there is no "choice"... it's all brick meets head.
I also know that it will be quite a while before we hear more of Xi's demotion at the last Party meeting (8/1-2)
I only wish rubbing my belly would make my hunger die... ;)
Naaah. "Brick meets head" -- it's about certainty, of SOME definite choices. ;-p
And used to highlight that obvious truth -- that even loudest deniers -- do not go that way.
Whatever.
That, do not depend on personas.
It's not Hitler (alone) who started ww2. And not likiPut which started third one. Yawn.
But BIG masses of people.
Like your Americans... fear-fool to help Ukraine.
:-))))
But see... invariants. ;-p
//There is no "same".
Electrons are all the same. Yawn.
//Sorry, I lean towards Heraclitus.
Yeah. I know already. That you call outdated superstitions -- KNOWLEDGE.
Well. Whatever. Suit yourself.
Whereas Lem hid his dissidence in SciFi instead of feeding the more popular "mass esotericism" of his day... ;)
So why don't they all land on the same spot on the detector in experiments?
There is no knowledge, just "right opinion". ;P
Socrates, the wisest of the Greeks...
Plato, "Cratylus" ending.
The Vortex is full of load noises, especially near the edges.
Do "right opinion" can protect your head from being hit by a brick?
Answer is obvious, isn't it?
But modern helmet made of Kevlar -- can.;-p
But of course... Socrates... did not know about it. By obvious reason.
And therefore -- he still wisest.
And you -- dumb'ass't. ;-p
I'd have no fear if the US Government stated publicly that we must conquer the world instead of sneaking around "capacity building" woke ideologies and undermining democracy around the world (and in the US) trying to fool everyone as to what we were doing by not stating it publicaly. We have the means and strength, but neither cause nor will to do it. (Shakespeare, "Hamlet" Act IV sc iv.).
Carl von Clausewitz's theory posits that war is an act of force intended to compel an opponent to accept one's will. He viewed war not as an isolated event, but as an extension of political policy, a means to achieve political objectives through violence. This "will" is a key element of resistance, encompassing desire, resolve, and the ability to act and endure.
Where there's a will (and not a whip), there is a way (means). And our leaders have not "instilled" sufficient will in the American people. They've only displayed a whip.
How it relates?
They DO appear in that detector. Without failure.
That is what counts, only.
Repetition, not invariance.
Comment from other thread?
Lem -- pole. They was forced into communism. Not commies by choice.
Eternal Return produces many DIFFERENT 'variants'. And "time" begins anew with the start of each new cycle. So how do you know that the returns are eternal (invariant) and not simply one of many "unknowables"?
invariant
/ɪnˈvɛːrɪənt/
adjective
never changing.
"the pattern of cell divisions was found to be invariant"
nounMathematics
a function, quantity, or property which remains unchanged when a specified transformation is applied.
repetition
/ˌrɛpɪˈtɪʃn/
noun
1.
the action of repeating something that has already been said or written.
"her comments are worthy of repetition"
Синоніми:
reiteration
repeating
restatement
retelling
iteration
recapitulation
recital
rehearsal
recap
reprise
iterance
echoing
parroting
quoting
copying
echolalia
2.
the recurrence of an action or event.
Khm... never changing recurrence? ;-p
The relative differences in position result from the absolute differences between all electrons. "No two snowflakes look alike"
//Carl von Clausewitz's theory posits that war
Outdated.
Yawn.
But how you can tell? ;-p
If you unable to distinguish em one from another. Or even just hold em for a second, in one place.
And I was forced into Capitalism, and not a Capitalist by choice much as I was forced into human form and not a human by choice. I was "whipped" into it.
Yep.
That's how History works.
And that's why nobody learn from its lessons.
Yawn.
Was it through bloody occupation and then execution of everyone who not bent one's knees???
Or... through culture, that inherently are about bowing and kneeling?
function is assigned a posteriori (and is not intrinsic). Each cell copy is "different", occupies a different position at a different time. The variance lies within. Only the "name" for the "same" in a "cycle" pretends at "invariance".
As is Sun Tzu. Who cares?
Outdated vs unproven. Choose.
I only know that I can know nothing... that is wisdom.
In a quantum state? Where's your cat Mr. Shroedinger? ;p
"Wisdoms of the past... tend to grow incorrect. And even outdated... with time"©
Means... since that old times some important updates happened.
Like H-bomb for example.
Superpositioned as live or dead?
Yap.
Outdated.
Yawn.
PS And you know that I am avid admirer of Socrates myself. Isn't it?
Yes, the coward's way of warfighting. Archimedes preceded it.
"Tech". ;p
That's just result of that SAMENESS.
Do you not see it?
If all cats/electrons are the same -- how you can know -- dead it, or alive?
A consequence of the Pauline Intervention. ;P
Whatever.
Pandora's box already opened.
Nope. More relevant today than ever.
And only one thing that remains in that box -- NEW tech(s).
And we can't fashion and open a different one?
Relevant.
But in revised scope. And after methodical improvments.
Yawn.
Not a 'material' tech, but a conceptual/ anti-philosophical one?
//-FJ the Dangerous and Extreme MAGA Jew
function is assigned a posteriori (and is not intrinsic). Each cell copy is "different", occupies a different position at a different time. The variance lies within. Only the "name" for the "same" in a "cycle" pretends at "invariance".
Sure thing!
Because cells are BIG lumps of enormous numbers of NOT SAME atoms.
Everything can happen, with such a mess at hand.
No... like Nietzsche's "Last man"... you're just "blinking". Sameness only results when your eyelids close.
//And we can't fashion and open a different one?
And you know? Have idea of a tech, of how to accomplish that? ;-)
...and it does. Differently. Repetitively.
If you, same as me and Lem would call Evolution a tech...
Just more portraits of Daedalus to hang and tack into the memory galleries.
...if copied and then viewed in the rear-view mirror.
Blinking -- irrelevant.
THAT sameness works INDEPENDENTLY. INVARIABLY. INVARIANTLY.
Of my or anyone's blinking.
How I do know? We do our conversation through computers and internet -- which would not exist, if said was not true
Nietzsche tried. Then Deleuze & Guattari. We'll have to see if it catches on (Schizo-analysis).
Like I tried to oppose it. %)
Losers.
Yawn.
PS It's borderline insane -- to do same and same thing again and again, without any success, but awaiting different results.
"Applying categorical differences and repeating processes" Changing the inputs to different machine-systems-processes and observing the outputs. Providing new machines-systems-processes and changing the input-output flows to others.
While Lem showed and explained -- WHY different result not possible.
While Lem showed and explained -- WHY different result not possible.
That's the basis of the new technofeudalism. Creating "desiring machines" to fuel consumption. The 'ads' in your browser...
//-FJ the Dangerous and Extreme MAGA Jew
"Applying categorical differences and repeating processes" Changing the inputs to different machine-systems-processes and observing the outputs. Providing new machines-systems-processes and changing the input-output flows to others.
August 6, 2025 at 11:17 AM
YAP!
But all question is -- how it would be organized? how that results will be interpreted? ;-)
You need only identify with a product for a sufficient time to click-buy it. Then you must create a new desire to be shown/and clicked/bought.
Yap.
WRONG, malicious misuse.
Yawn.
Of built with NEW tech car? ;-)
$Trillions$ in SEARCH directed on-line sales.
And that too... :-(
I BUY therefore I AM. Identity. What's in YOUR Profile?
Look a comment higher.
Technofeudalism.
You too!
Just a meaningless bunch of letters definition of which you cannot provide.
Yawn.
//What's in YOUR Profile?
But I'm Anonimous!
And name to US -- Legion. ;-p
Bow to your new Lord, Cloud Serf!
LOL! Are you?
No one can follow your digital breadcrumbs?
Pft! ))))))))
Your computer never "blinks". There are no "single event upsets"?
Like anybody cares.
You are so naive.
But I'm... Cloud technician. ;-p
Yep.
But then it goes into Blue Screen of Death.
Yawn.
One is a temporary solution, the other more permanent?
Don'tcha LOVE Hollywood?
...yet.
Nope. On Loudest deniers...
A variation! Amazing!
Epimetheus has to earn a living somehow, I suppose.
It's certainly in your DNA. ;)
Ah, the PAID serf of a Cloud Vassal.... as once was I.
No, I simply have no illusions of privacy.
...nor of the ability of Palantir's AIs.
Again. There is NO concept of privacy in traditional society.
That is NEW idea. Of city dwellers.
Whatever.
Don't like it -- become suserene. ;-p
Again. MY words.
There only Dynamic Equilibrium for living things...
In compare with Mosfilm? :-)
Yeah. You could be first... but you neglecting studying. ;-p
I don't see a relevance anyway.
Is either still a thing? Tik-Tok!
True. Now I only read summarized secondary, instead of primary, sources. I'm only getting a ChatGPT version of history. :(
There will always be screamers. The mother of idiots is always pregnant.
They too eventually achieve stasis.
Such is life... opposition to entropy. Assembly Theory. ;)
In Ayn Rand's Galt's Gulch! (Atlas Shrugged).
I'm sure that my ex-boss (now head of NRO) would agree He, and the head of NSA are now the Kings of Dreams. One eyes, the other, ears.
There have always been those with their eyes to the keyhole (Duchamp, Etant Donnes). Unmaking privacy is not a new 'city dweller' idea, though. It's an old and now technologicaly enabled, idea of country dwellers that has not yet given re-birth (but with continued experience, will).
If you see it dearing, why not.
But for whatever you desired would -- you'll need a lot of strength.
And only strength available -- from NEW techs.
Yawn.
PS Was I not precise? Not eloquent enough? With saying it explicitly, not enough times? @@
Whatever.
But life... it not in words.
Words are... just a bubbles on a surface.
It... doesn't matter.
Or what???%) Sun would suddenly stop, even for a nanosecond would suspend its thermonuclear orgy of fusion... because of someone's death?
Yawn.
Means... Dynamic Equilibrium -- it is non-local. By design.
It could NOT be, any other way.
IT... Anti-MedenAgan. To state it in your terms. ;-p
Not that much idiots... to put their heads under that falling bricks.
And that's the whole point of that Brick Falling Head maxim. Urbi... at orbi.;-p
History... it's what happens with you, here and now, too... yawn.
Ask Goggle.
Yawn.
The consensus of the 'experts'... @@
aka - The paid PMC interpreters of "the Master Discourse" (Technofeudal Capital) for (hysterical discourse) cloud-serf usage.
Yes, His/Her Story (Master->University Discourse) is published, and My-Story (Analyst->Hysteric Discourse) is burned/ erased.
...from brick to head??? ;P Not Hollywood->Cannes?
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