"It's Scientific!" "It's Secular!" "It's Non-Theistic!" "It's NOT based Upon Any Imaginaries!" @@
It's Based Upon The Master's Whims (Super-Ego)!
And Since the Master (ie - Government) Has a Monopoly On Violence, You'll be Punished If You Don't Do it THIS Way! The Master's Imaginary-Based and Approved Way!
from Google AI on Isaiah Berlin:Key quotes and articulations of this idea from Berlin include:
- On the Plurality of Values: "The world of values is such that we cannot have everything... to ignore this is to misunderstand what it is to be a human being".
- On Incommensurability (from The Crooked Timber of Humanity): "The values of a person or culture... are often... 'incommensurable.'"
- On the Myth of a Single Scale: "To assume that all values can be graded on one scale, so that it is a mere matter of inspection to determine the highest, seems to me to falsify our knowledge that men are free agents."
- On Liberty vs. Equality: "Total liberty for wolves is death to the lambs, total liberty of the powerful, the gifted, is not compatible with the rights to a decent existence of the weak and the less gifted."
- On Choosing: "The need to choose, to sacrifice some ultimate values to others, turns out to be a permanent characteristic of the human predicament.
If All forms of Life were "absolutely" flourishing, what principle(s) would guide Evulution and Natural Selection?
What is the function of Law then? According to Luhmann, it's to "stabilize expectations"
"Custom is like a King, and the Law, like a Tyrant"Dio Chrysostom (Natural Law being adopted by custom, not novel Legislation)...
The result of this confusion is that one affirms the essence of justice to be the authority of the legislator; another, the interest of the sovereign; another, present custom, and this is the most sure. Nothing, according to reason alone, is just in itself; all changes with time. CUSTOM CREATES THE WHOLE OF EQUITY, FOR THE SIMPLE REASON THAT IT IS ACCEPTED. IT IS THE MYSTICAL FOUNDATION OF ITS AUTHORITY; WHOEVER CARRIES IT BACK TO FIRST PRINCIPLES DESTROYS IT. NOTHING IS SO FAULTY AS THOSE LAWS WHICH CORRECT FAULTS. He who obeys them because they are just, obeys a justice which is imaginary, and not the essence of law; it is quite self-contained, it is law and nothing more. He who will examine its motive will find it so feeble and so trifling that if he be not accustomed to contemplate the wonders of human imagination, he will marvel that one century has gained for it so much pomp and reverence. The art of opposition and of revolution is to unsettle established customs, sounding them even to their source, to point out their want of authority and justice. We must, it is said, get back to the natural and fundamental laws of the State, which an unjust custom has abolished. It is a game certain to result in the loss of all; nothing will be just on the balance. Yet people readily lend their ear to such arguments. They shake off the yoke as soon as they recognise it; and the great profit by their ruin, and by that of these curious investigators of accepted customs. But from a contrary mistake men sometimes think they can justly do everything which is not without an example. THAT IS WHY THE WISEST OF LEGISLATORS SAID THAT IT WAS NECESSARY TO DECEIVE MEN FOR THEIR OWN GOOD; and another, a good politician, "Cum veritatem qua liberetur ignoret, expedit quod fallatur."
Pascal, "Pensees"
92 comments:
Yap.
Propaganda of "those who know better".
Yawn.
Or... words, words, words(c)
Perhaps we should all become Laconic (Spartans)...
Acta non Verba!
Old Italian saying:
Alexander never did what he said, and Caesar never said what he did.
...on (c)
Ho... spotted best joke to the point
dRump: "We USA have most powerful army... please, help us" %-))))))
That IS funny, since G_d only helps those who help themselves.
...and we're done helpin' y'all!
))))
Times changing. ;-)
As will presidents.
Only... not last ones. Yawn.
Famous last words, words, words (c)... @@
Yeah. By some chinese...
Plato, "Ion"
ION: I cannot deny what you say, Socrates. Nevertheless I am conscious in my own self, and the world agrees with me in thinking that I do speak better and have more to say about Homer than any other man. But I do not speak equally well about others—tell me the reason of this.
SOCRATES: I perceive, Ion; and I will proceed to explain to you what I imagine to be the reason of this. The gift which you possess of speaking excellently about Homer is not an art, but, as I was just saying, an inspiration; there is a divinity moving you, like that contained in the stone which Euripides calls a magnet, but which is commonly known as the stone of Heraclea. This stone not only attracts iron rings, but also imparts to them a similar power of attracting other rings; and sometimes you may see a number of pieces of iron and rings suspended from one another so as to form quite a long chain: and all of them derive their power of suspension from the original stone. In like manner the Muse first of all inspires men herself; and from these inspired persons a chain of other persons is suspended, who take the inspiration. For all good poets, epic as well as lyric, compose their beautiful poems not by art, but because they are inspired and possessed. And as the Corybantian revellers when they dance are not in their right mind, so the lyric poets are not in their right mind when they are composing their beautiful strains: but when falling under the power of music and metre they are inspired and possessed; like Bacchic maidens who draw milk and honey from the rivers when they are under the influence of Dionysus but not when they are in their right mind. And the soul of the lyric poet does the same, as they themselves say; for they tell us that they bring songs from honeyed fountains, culling them out of the gardens and dells of the Muses; they, like the bees, winging their way from flower to flower. And this is true. For the poet is a light and winged and holy thing, and there is no invention in him until he has been inspired and is out of his senses, and the mind is no longer in him: when he has not attained to this state, he is powerless and is unable to utter his oracles. Many are the noble words in which poets speak concerning the actions of men; but like yourself when speaking about Homer, they do not speak of them by any rules of art: they are simply inspired to utter that to which the Muse impels them, and that only; and when inspired, one of them will make dithyrambs, another hymns of praise, another choral strains, another epic or iambic verses—and he who is good at one is not good at any other kind of verse: for not by art does the poet sing, but by power divine. Had he learned by rules of art, he would have known how to speak not of one theme only, but of all; and therefore God takes away the minds of poets, and uses them as his ministers, as he also uses diviners and holy prophets, in order that we who hear them may know them to be speaking not of themselves who utter these priceless words in a state of unconsciousness, but that God himself is the speaker, and that through them he is conversing with us. And Tynnichus the Chalcidian affords a striking instance of what I am saying: he wrote nothing that any one would care to remember but the famous paean which is in every one's mouth, one of the finest poems ever written, simply an invention of the Muses, as he himself says. For in this way the God would seem to indicate to us and not allow us to doubt that these beautiful poems are not human, or the work of man, but divine and the work of God; and that the poets are only the interpreters of the Gods by whom they are severally possessed. Was not this the lesson which the God intended to teach when by the mouth of the worst of poets he sang the best of songs? Am I not right, Ion?
ION: Yes, indeed, Socrates, I feel that you are; for your words touch my soul, and I am persuaded that good poets by a divine inspiration interpret the things of the Gods to us.
...some chinese...... I would believe a tree!
Did you know that one of the earliest prophetic seats in Europe was an oak tree?
Long before the marble temples of Delphi rose into prominence, before Apollo claimed the priestess’s tongue, there was a sacred grove in the mountainous region of Epirus, northwestern Greece.
The gods were believed to speak through a great oak tree. But, much like I think the Earth herself was the oracle at Delphi, I suspect the oak tree was originally more than just a funnel. It was the oracle itself.
Dodona is widely regarded as the oldest known oracle in ancient Greece, and perhaps all of Europe. Its roots stretch deep into the Bronze Age and possibly further into the pre-Hellenic, pre-Indo-European religious landscape.
The oracle at Dodona was originally sacred to Gaia, the Earth goddess, and later to Dione, a shadowy, powerful feminine figure often interpreted as an earlier form of Rhea or Gaia herself. In time, Zeus was incorporated as her consort or counterpart. Yet even under the name of Zeus, Dodona retained its earthly, chthonic character — an elemental oracle grounded in the natural world, rather than lifted to the heights of Olympian abstraction.
At the heart of the sanctuary stood a sacred oak tree, believed to be inhabited by the divine. Pilgrims would approach and submit questions, often inscribed on small lead tablets — many of which survive today. Instead of the responses coming from a trance-speaking prophetess, the answers were seen to derive from the tree itself and the wider landscape: the rustling of leaves, the flight of doves, and the clang of bronze cauldrons hung from the boughs. It was a form of divination profoundly rooted in animism — the belief that the Earth and her elements are alive and communicative.
Presiding over the oracle were women known as the Peleiades, which means "doves." This term evokes both the sacred birds of Dione and Aphrodite, and also the pleiades constellation linked to mourning and ancestral memory.
These priestesses were the interpreters of the sacred sounds, listening to wind, leaf, and birdcall with practiced attention. It was a form of oracular art that required presence, atunement, and deep listening — qualities associated with the feminine in many ancient traditions. I personally call this method “Earth Oracles” and teach it in my work.
Dodona’s significance lies especially in what it represents: a time when oracular knowledge was not transmitted through speech alone, but through the living world — through trees, animals, weather patterns and sound.
;p
Men are not moved, and do not believe, by reason... they are moved and inspired by their I-MAG-NET-ation...
...which is why your ideas, IN-spired by Lem, cannot be materialized through "reason". They must first be I-magnet-ized, to align the atoms in the souls of all men in whom they are touched.
Why would the Greeks study "rhetoric" if it were "useless"? Why does Social media drive the conversations of the planet? People aren't making logical arguments. they're magnetized. Like attracts like. And the others are "repelled".
...but then again, I speak the Analyst Discourse, NOT the University Discourse. I interpret the symptoms of the Hysterics, NOT their Master (the University Discourse does this).
...words, words, words...
...aligning the Ions from the Magnet. For Plato's "Laws" were written for MAGnesia. Not AMnesia. ;)
...in I-AM-bic pentameter! ;p
////Why would the Greeks study "rhetoric" if it were "useless"?
To structurise own thoughts?Yawn.
//...which is why your ideas, IN-spired by Lem, cannot be materialized through "reason"
Who knows...
I tryed to use your USAians startupping framework...
no use, as you rightfully admitted -- cause I cannot provide proof of concept.
I tryed here think big and geopolitical -- but, I dislike idea of making it weapon... and USA too self-absorbed to hear such ideas...
what else approach I can use?
//God would seem to indicate to us and not allow us to doubt that these beautiful poems are not human, or the work of man, but divine and the work of God; and that the poets are only the interpreters of the Gods by whom they are severally possessed.
Now AU can do any poem... is he, a Gawd? ;-p
Stories of...Arete... words, words, words... like Lem's.
Can he influence others (Plato's 9th motion)?
"Land Down Under" (AI Generated)
Red dust stretches, burning bright,
Underneath the southern light.
Kangaroos in red dirt play,
Koalas sleep the day away.
From Sydney’s shores to desert sand,
A wild and sun-scorched, ancient land.
Didgeridoos in quiet song,
Where Vegemite is never wrong.
Crocodiles in northern streams,
Sharks within the ocean dreams.
The fire burns, the spirit grows,
Resilient as the summer glows.
So come and visit, take a chance,
Because were he the 10th (Self-moving motion), he would indeed be G-d-like!
RICE (CIA motivation theory)
R needs money
I is Ideas
C requires coercive intelligence
E needs only to fuel Ego's.
For me as technologist... Arietti is quite enough. ;-p
;p
Elon have all four... so? what's with his "Starship"? %-p
It's "his"...?
One of the First books I ever owned... "Tom Swift and his Rocker Ship/a"
Ego
...but better if YOU Meyer-Briggs him for RICE purposes...
The MBTI framework measures preferences across four distinct pairs:
Energy (E/I): Extraversion (outwardly focused) vs. Introversion (inwardly focused).
Information (S/N): Sensing (factual/concrete) vs. Intuition (imaginative/abstract).
Decisions (T/F): Thinking (logic-based) vs. Feeling (value-based).
Structure (J/P): Judging (organized/decisive) vs. Perceiving (open-ended/flexible).
I'm an "analyst"...
Combining one letter from each category yields a four-letter type (e.g., INTJ, ESFP), often organized into four groups:
Analysts (NT): INTJ, INTP, ENTJ, ENTP.
Diplomats (NF): INFJ, INFP, ENFJ, ENFP.
Sentinels (SJ): ISTJ, ISFJ, ESTJ, ESFJ.
Explorers (SP): ISTP, ISFP, ESTP, ESFP
Used to pass such tests too.
But forgot results
Yeah. I have my side experience too.
About USSR super-duper u-boat. ;-p
The 16 personality types can be mapped to which of these four discourses they tend to favor, or which position they take within a discourse.
1. The Master's Discourse (S1 Agent): This discourse is about creating order and setting the rules.
Types: ESTJ, ENTJ, ISTJ
Characteristics: These "Judging" types focus on efficiency, structure, and command. They often function as the agent setting the master signifier. They are goal-oriented and prefer to lead (or be led by) a firm hand.
2. The University Discourse: This discourse is about organizing, measuring, and utilizing expertise.
Types: INTJ, INTP, ISTP, ISTJ
Characteristics: "Thinking" and "Systemizing" types often operate in the University discourse. They are motivated by the accumulation of knowledge and the creation of systems. They find comfort in data and specialized expertise.
3. The Hysteric's Discourse: This discourse is about pushing the master to reveal their inadequacy, causing a change.
Types: ENFP, ENTP, INFP, INFJ
Characteristics: Intuitive, feeling, and perceptive types often take the position of the hysteric. They are split subjects, questioning the validity of the "master" and asking, "Why am I this to you?" They drive change by resisting simple, rigid answers.
4. The Analyst's Discourse: This discourse is about helping the subject understand their own desires.
Types: INFJ, INFP, ENFJ, ENFP
Characteristics: "Feeling" and "Intuitive" types often fit here. They work with the object 'a (cause of desire), attempting to bridge the gap in the other subject to help them find their own truth.
This comparison highlights that while personality types (MBTI) indicate how an individual typically acts, Lacanian discourses reveal the structure of the social bond they are creating.
Andrew Bustamanti's point is not to understand yourself, but to understand others so that you can influence (and manipulate) THEM. It's a "Master" thing. ;)
Verne, 20,000 Leagues...
I used to love watching Sea Hunt and Voyage to the Bottom of the Sea. I even became a certified SCUBA diver in High School. Used to dive in Monterey Bay and off Salt Point for abalone.
//Verne, 20,000 Leagues...
...on steroids. ;-)
Submarine that can run at 80 knots under whater. ;-p
And ruin everithing in sight with sonic weapon.
Dislike manipulations. Dispise even.
Like the "Seaview" ... with a flying mini-sub Fantastical!. ;)
...then you will be the one manipulated.
Tit-4-Tat is fair play. Even if you despise "Tit".
Meden agan!
Maybe... yawn.
Well, historical examples are... unsettling.
Einstain did not have big idea and vision of use of nukelar power, just feard other side use of it and later tryed to turn it all back.
Teslav, did it all himself --because knew that his ideas of energy for all for free will not be liked. And ended miserably.
von Braun and Koroliyov have given up their ideas to MIC of making bigger and bigger booms.
And Musk... I already mentioned him here...
Heh... seems like historical analogies is not your strength.
So much for "multi-temporal"... something-something. ;-)
You (and your idea) suffer from tesla's problem.
...which was also Franklin's problem.
Well... not intentionally...
The inventor's "intentions" mean little.
And well... how you do not see, that Musk's one -- is just totally opposite, but the same in result.
There cannot be conquest of Mars that benefitial for just one man. It must be benefit for all. Or, well, for many.
//The inventor's "intentions" mean little.
OF COURSE!!!
That's why I don't call myself inventor. ;-p
Maybe that's why SpaceX is going public.
SpaceX confidentially filed for an IPO on April 1, 2026, aiming for a potential June 2026 listing at a massive $$
$75 billion, making it one of the largest IPOs in history. The offering is expected to fund ambitious projects like Starlink expansion, Starship, and orbital data centers,
Naaah. That's just more monies for one.
Well, Humanity did not created a tech for common goals (except religion, maybe)
Also interesting how you ignored historical example of von Braun and Koroliyov -- how their starry eyes ideas was merely pipe dreams UNTIL they decided to sell em for military use. ;^p
Well, it never was crazy inventor/scientist idea.
More like Edison's workshop -- where he devised general vision and his companions start seeking concrete realisation.
You ignore classical liberalism (US Constitution limited government w/ negative liberty)
Socialism and Communism exalt "positive" liberty.
No limits on government
Edison shared royalties?
???
//You ignore classical liberalism (US Constitution limited government w/ negative liberty)
Well... natural for post-soviet.
And well, it nowhere to be found today.
So -- your historical accounts, can be treated as anecdotal. ;^p
So maybe I need to modify my premise. Intentions matter before their details are communicated. Does the inventor seek material advancement from it, or merely "spiritual" advancement from it? Fortune or fame? Edison and Must sought the former, Van Braun, more the latter. Most seek both, or they wouldn't give their inventions to the government. Einstein sought to prevent defeat in a struggle against those who would kill him for being a Jew.
Classical liberalism is a secular religion. Wokism is a "secular" religion. Capitalism is a "secular" religion (the previous two mentioned being forms of it). Communism was a "secular" religion (atheism).
All idealistic "worldviews" are either secular, or religious. They seek to either immanentize (bring about) or katechonize (prolong) their "eschatons" (desired ends).
Shi'a Islam seeks to unify the ummah (Islamic people) under a direct descendent of Muhammed. Sunni Islam isn't fixated on who the ultimate "leader" (mahdi) should be.
Iran seeks to immanentize the eschaton. Christian Zionists are the same (hence their support for the Israel-Iran War). Christ will return and raise them into His kingdom.
Google AI:
Sunni and Shi'a eschatology (end-times theology) share a belief in a final, apocalyptic battle, the appearance of the Mahdi, and the eventual triumph of justice. However, they differ on the nature of the Mahdi and the preparatory steps for the final judgment.
Common Eschatological Beliefs
The Mahdi: Both branches believe a guided leader (the Mahdi) will appear to restore justice and establish an Islamic state.
Jesus’s Return: Both believe Jesus (Isa) will return alongside the Mahdi to defeat the Antichrist (Dajjal).
Final Judgement: Both believe in a future life with paradise and eternal punishment.
Shi'a Eschatological Goals
Shi'a Muslims generally have a more intense, specific expectation of the end times.
The 12th Imam: For Twelver Shi'a, the Mahdi is Muhammad al-Mahdi, the 12th Imam, who went into occultation (hiding) in 874 CE and will return to fulfill his mission.
Vindication of Ahl al-Bayt: A central goal is the vindication of the Prophet's family (Ahl al-Bayt), specifically following the suffering caused by the martyrdom of Husayn.
Active Preparation: The goal is to prepare for the 12th Imam’s return by maintaining strict adherence to the guidance of the Ahl al-Bayt and, in some interpretations, creating a just society that paves the way for his coming.
Sunni Eschatological Goals
Sunni eschatology focuses on the restoration of righteousness and the unity of the community.
The Mahdi’s Lineage: While expecting the Mahdi, Sunnis generally do not believe he is a specific hidden person currently in occultation, but rather a future leader who will appear when needed.
Renewal of Law and Order: The goal is to return the community to the original, pure practice (Sunnah) of the Prophet and his companions.
Restoration of the Caliphate: A major theme is the restoration of righteous leadership.
Modern Eschatological Perspectives
Radical Sunni: Focuses on restoring a "pure" Islamic state (e.g., ISIS).
Radical Shi'a: Focuses on aligning regional politics with the imminent return of the 12th Imam, often linked with the revolutionary goals of Iran.
Overall, both share the same ultimate goals of justice and divine rule, but differ on whether that role is served by community leaders (Sunni) or divinely designated, infallible Imams (Shi'a)
Yawn.
Like I care.
That all is like wirlwind in a bushes. ;-p
Naaah.
They just do... what they ought to do.
Do dog salivate because it want to have some desire?
The von Braun family was a prominent German noble family, most famously represented by aerospace engineer Wernher von Braun (1912–1977). His father, Magnus Freiherr von Braun, was a Weimar Republic agriculture minister, and his mother, Emmy von Quistorp, had extensive European royal ancestry. Wernher had two brothers, Sigismund (diplomat) and Magnus (rocket scientist/executive).
Who profited from the inventions? Edison or his companions? I suspect Edison kept the royalties to himself.
Google:
edison lab royalties
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Thomas Edison's laboratory, particularly the "Invention Factory" in West Orange, New Jersey, operated on a hybrid model of patent royalties, direct funding, and, crucially, manufacturing profits. While he received significant royalty payments for inventions like the telephone carbon-button transmitter and telegraph systems from companies like Western Union, he shifted toward manufacturing his own products to secure the majority of the profits rather than relying solely on royalties.
Key Aspects of Edison's Lab Revenue and Royalties:
Telegraph Royalties (1870s): Edison signed agreements with Western Union Telegraph Company, which paid him a weekly salary ($150) and royalties on improvements to land telegraph lines and cables.
Funding & Royalties: The Edison Electric Light Company was formed in 1878 to finance his lighting experiments, providing him with over $130,000 (~$2.3 million in today's currency) in exchange for control of the resulting patents.
Phonograph Company: A group of investors formed the Edison Speaking Phonograph Company to promote his invention and gave him $10,000 to improve it. He later received a cash offer of $500,000 for the U.S. and Canadian rights to the phonograph.
International Agreements: Edison secured significant foreign royalties, such as a £10,000 advance from the London telephone company and agreements for half of the company's net profits in other regions.
..or satisfy one?
...until you decide you must "motivate" them in a particular direction. R.I.C.E. The "I" is Ideology.
...and America is "The Great Satan", after all. ;)
We brought LOTS of Nazi sell-outs to America after the war...
Google:
Operation Paperclip was a secret U.S. intelligence program that brought over 1,600 German scientists, engineers, and technicians—many former Nazis and SS members—to America between 1945 and 1959. Designed to harness German expertise for the Cold War and space race, this initiative granted them immunity, careers at NASA and the military, and new lives, often concealing their war crimes.
Tnx. I do know that much too. )
I was refering to calling him Van. Like he some, chinese? %^)
Your local problems.
Your local story again.
Really? We don't need oil from Hormuz.
I spell phonetically. :(
Yeah. Without understanding.
That way, from this one example, you could devise -- why I hesitate to bubble too much about USA.
As for me, as foreigner, it is too -- most of it "spelled phonetical"
Who knows.
You tryed to reassure me... that you are isolationists. Need *nothing* from outside.
We don't. But we do need a covert apparatus abroad to keep the outsiders out. Are you familiar with Plato's "Magnesia" (The Laws)? The Nocturnal Council?
Our problem is that foreign nations need access to the American market. And that's what tariffs are for. To keep them out.
That's why I don't write in Spanish. I prefer to let Google translate for me. :(
and google far to early to translate cultural shticks... yawn
do you think Mark Twain was stooopid???
google "mark twain on tariffs"
and you already fogot your misery of 80th??? forgot Li Yacoca @@
Twain never saw the flip side of global trade... the "offshoring" of American jobs. It wasn't all about protecting "wages". It was protecting the very jobs themselves (of which the Jones Act was the first acknowledgement) Merchant Mariners and ships can originate "anywhere".
ps - I'll have to put a time machine in my Delorian
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