.

And by a prudent flight and cunning save A life which valour could not, from the grave. A better buckler I can soon regain, But who can get another life again? Archilochus

Thursday, September 22, 2022

Ukraine Again

 

Slavoj Zizek, "Ukraine Is Palestine, Not Israel"

For international relations to work, all parties must at least speak the same language when they use concepts like freedom and occupation. By putting themselves in the same boat as the Israelis, rather than the Palestinians, the Ukrainians are ceding a large chunk of the moral high ground.

LJUBLJANA – I once asked my younger son if he could pass the salt, only to be met with the response, "Of course I can!" When I repeated my request, he snapped back: "You asked me if I could do it, and I answered you." You didn't tell me that I should do it."

Who was freer in this situation – me or my son? If we understand freedom as freedom of choice, my son was freer, because he had an additional choice about how to interpret my question. He could take it literally, or he could interpret it in the usual sense, as a request that was formulated as a question out of politeness. By contrast, I effectively renounced this choice and automatically relied on the conventional sense.

Now, imagine a world where many more people acted in everyday life the way my son did when he was teasing me. We would never know for sure what our partners in conversation wanted to say, and we would lose an immense amount of time pursuing pointless interpretations. Is this not an apt description of political life over the last decade? Donald Trump and other alt-right populists have capitalized on the fact that democratic politics relies on certain unwritten rules and customs, which they have violated when it suits them, while avoiding accountability by not always explicitly breaking the law.

In the United States, Trump's Republican Party lackeys are pursuing such a strategy ahead of the next presidential election. According to a fringe legal theory that they have embraced, a loophole in federal election law would allow a state's legislature to appoint its own presidential electors if the secretary of state decides that he or she cannot certify the result of an election. Republican election deniers are now running for the offices that they will need to override the will of the voters in 2024. The GOP thus is attempting to destroy one of the basic conditions of democracy: that all political participants speak the same language and follow the same rules. Otherwise, a country will find itself on the verge of civil war – an outcome that almost one-half of Americans now expect.

The same conditions apply to global politics. For international relations to work, all parties must at least speak the same language when they talk about concepts like freedom and occupation. Russia is obviously undermining this condition by describing its war of aggression in Ukraine as a " special operation " to "liberate" the country. But Ukraine's government has also fallen into this trap. Addressing the Israeli Knesset on March 20, 2022, Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky said : "We are in different countries and in completely different conditions. But the threat is the same: for both us and you – the total destruction of the people, state, culture. And even of the names: Ukraine, Israel."

Palestinian political scientist Asad Ghanem described Zelensky's speech as "a disgrace when it comes to global struggles for freedom and liberation, particularly of the Palestinian people." Zelensky "reversed the roles of occupier and occupied." I agree. And I also agree with Ghanem that, "every possible support must be given to Ukrainians as they resist [Russia's] barbaric aggression." Without Western military support, most of Ukraine would now be under Russian occupation, destroying a pillar of international peace and order: the integrity of borders.

Unfortunately, Zelensky's Knesset speech was not a singular event. Ukraine regularly takes public positions in support of the Israeli occupation. In 2020, it quit the United Nations Committee on the Exercise of the Inalienable Rights of the Palestinian People; and just last month, its ambassador to Israel, Yevgen Korniychuk, declared that : "As a Ukrainian whose country is under a very brutal attack by its neighbor, I feel great sympathy towards the Israeli public."

This parallel between Israel and Ukraine is totally misplaced. If anything, the Ukrainians' situation is closest to that of the West Bank Palestinians. Yes, Israelis and Palestinians at least acknowledge their adversaries' otherness, whereas Russia claims that Ukrainians are really just Russians. But not only does Israel deny that the Palestinians are a nation (as Russia does with Ukraine); the Palestinians also have been denied a place in the Arab world (like Ukrainians vis-à-vis Europe before the war). Moreover, like Russia, Israel is a nuclear-armed military superpower that is de facto colonizing a smaller, much weaker entity. And like Russia in the occupied parts of Ukraine, Israel is practicing a policy of apartheid .

While Israel's leaders welcome Ukraine's support, they have not returned the favor . Instead, they have oscillated between Russia and Ukraine, because Israel needs Russia's continued tolerance of its own military strikes on targets in Syria. But Ukraine's full support for Israel mainly reflects its leaders' ideological interest in presenting their struggle as a defense of Europe and European civilization against a barbaric, totalitarian East.

This framing of the fight is untenable, because it requires glossing over Europe's own roles in slavery, colonialism, fascism, and so forth. It is crucial that Ukraine's cause be defended in universal terms, around shared concepts and interpretations of words like "occupation" and "freedom." To reduce Ukraine's war to a struggle for Europe is to use the same framing as Russian President Vladimir Putin's "court philosopher" Aleksandr Dugin, who draws a line between "Russian truth" and "European truth." Confining the conflict to Europe reinforces Russia's own global propaganda, which presents the invasion of Ukraine as an act of decolonization – part of the struggle against Western neoliberal domination and a necessary step towards a multipolar world.

By treating Israel's colonization of the West Bank as a defensive struggle for freedom, Ukraine is validating another power's aggression and thus compromising its own fully justified struggle for freedom. Sooner or later, it will have to make a choice. Will it be truly European, by participating in the universal emancipatory project that defines Europe? Or will it become a part of the new right's populist wave?

When Ukraine asked the West, "Can you pass the howitzers?" the West did not cynically quip, "Yes, we can!" and then do nothing. Western countries responded reasonably by sending weapons to fight the occupiers. Yet when Palestinians ask for support of any kind, they receive nothing but empty statements, often accompanied by declarations of solidarity with their oppressor. When they ask for the salt, it is handed to their opponent.

71 comments:

Q said...

\\By treating Israel's colonization of the West Bank as a defensive struggle for freedom, Ukraine is validating another power's aggression and thus compromising its own fully justified struggle for freedom.

Ukraine and pseudo-republics of Luhansk and Donetsk

Israel and Palestine

e.g. Country that struggling to defend its freedom and pseudo-states ignited by foes of that country, to protract a hybride war against it.


And that Zizek is nothing else but useful idiot willfully grabbing chestnuts from fire for Putin's cause.

Q said...

When Ukraine asked the West, "Can you pass the howitzers?" the West did not cynically quip, "Yes, we can!" and then do nothing. Western countries responded reasonably by sending weapons to fight the occupiers. Yet when Palestinians ask for support of any kind, they receive nothing but empty statements, often accompanied by declarations of solidarity with their oppressor. When they ask for the salt, it is handed to their opponent.

Totally justified.
As they are nothing but terrorists which throw indiscriminately rockets at peaceful people.
SAME
as terroristic state of Putin.

Only difference. Putin have bigger rockets... and readying himself to start throwing em, indiscriminately, at people like that Zizek, in that peaceful european cities where they like to drink coffie in a cosy cafe and write malarkey such as this text.

Joe Conservative said...

I don't agree with everything Zizek posts... he is a Communist, after all.

Joe Conservative said...

...a very smart Communist.

(((TC))) said...

The smartest of Communists are all still hackneyed propagandists.

Yet when Palestinians ask for support of any kind, they receive nothing but empty statements>>>

UNRWA?

Q said...

\\...a very smart Communist.

Pun intended? Or that was oxymoron?

Joe Conservative said...

I think he meant "weapons"... although the UNRWA payments probably buy a lot of those.

What I meant was that he's an "intellectually honest" Communist... and he's a communist in the Platonic sense of the word, not the Leninist/Marxist sense. The problems of our day being mostly of "the commons" (Garret Hardin, "Tragedy of the Commons") and not the need for resentful armed struggle in a permanent revolution.

Joe Conservative said...

I suspect that he doesn't see the irony in opposing the Donbas rebellion while supporting Palestine's. I oppose Palestine's because the problem wasn't that Israel wanted to "oppress" the Palestinians so much as the Arab countries surrounding Israel wanted to force a fight and so refused to accept Arab refugees.

Q said...

\\What I meant was that he's an "intellectually honest" Communist...

Oh... that is EVEN MORE incredible thing to behold.
But I wouldn't hold my breath to see it. Neither I would move a finger to take part in such scam.
That looks too much like freak show. "intellectually honest communist" on the same bench with bearded woman and a man with a smallest scull... and now woman leaves him alone. :-)))))


\\ and he's a communist in the Platonic sense of the word, not the Leninist/Marxist sense.

Ehm... you lost me here. Of course, I can imagine there can be many other forms of communism. What I cannot, that's to imagine that they ANYHOW any different from Leninist/Marxist/Maosit/Putinist/whatever...

That he have no power to try in the real world his delusions -- that's lame excuse.
If he'd have, he'd do nothing better than higher mentioned predecessors. Period.


\\I suspect that he doesn't see the irony in opposing the Donbas rebellion

Correct way to write it -- "rebellion". As it is in and out just a play directed by FSB.
Palestinians have some reasons firmly rooted in history. Even deep history. For at least.
Some real experience of cross-race, cross-culture, cross-religion uneasiness.
While "rebellion of free people of Down-base" is just a quicky botched simulacre.

That... that that "free and independent countries", that "fighted against Urainian Nazis for a long-long 8 years" decided to "reunite with Mother Russia" in a jiffy moment... tells it all. :-))))
Or should tell, to anyone who deem himself as "intellectually honest person".

-FJ the Dangerous and Extreme MAGA Jew said...

Look at the 2014 Ukraine election map and then snark back at me about intellectual honesty.

Q said...

Are you Zizek?
Or maybe you are self-proclaimed "intellectually honest communist"?
Or you just habitually taking comments about other people on your behalf, I dunno?


\\Look at the 2014 Ukraine election map

So what?
Elaborate please.

-FJ the Dangerous and Extreme MAGA Jew said...

Have you looked?

(((TC))) said...

I wonder how many Russian soldiers would be killed via a drone strike on a voting booth.

Q said...

\\ -FJ the Dangerous and Extreme MAGA Jew said...
Have you looked?

And have you looked at electoral map of USA?

So what, all red parts of it can be occupied by China? Because they are Red already.

Or what this your argument do mean?
Elaborate, please.

Joe Conservative said...

My argument is that the vast majority of the residents of these districts (blue above) are former Soviet Russian-speaking citizens and not ethnic Ukrainians. It's an "industrial" sector (80% of Ukraine's heavy industry). The ethnic Ukrainians are mostly in the wheat farming West.

Putin's original plan was to support the "autonomy" of the Donbas/Luhansk regions, but now is simply going to annex them to Mother Russia... and there's not a damn thing short of nuclear war that Ukraine and NATO can do about it.

Joe Conservative said...

Had Ukraine given up, they probably had a chance to keep a seaport at Odessa, but that's off the table now, Russia's taking it all.

Joe Conservative said...

If NATO comes in now, they'll get tactically nuked, and there's a good chance that Russia will target NATO airbases and supply depot's in other countries.

Joe Conservative said...

The time for "pretending" is over. You're hyper-real new media will not be preventing WWIII.

Joe Conservative said...

Contrary to media reports, Russia's got nothing to lose.

Joe Conservative said...

NATO has placed its' future in doubt.

Joe Conservative said...

...and if its' going down, they'll happily take NATO with them.

Joe Conservative said...

Putin rides the bomb....

Joe Conservative said...

btw - Either of you warmongers ever spend much time reading Janes?

Joe Conservative said...

Back in my Martin Marietta days I spent half my life reading up on Soviet equipment.

Joe Conservative said...

As a former US Naval Reserve Office working for a defense contractor in their Aero & Naval Systems Division, I had a lot of fun working on proposals based upon our threat assessments and operational research simulations of weapons systems performance.

Joe Conservative said...

btw - Best Clancy thriller ever... "Red Storm Rising".

(((TC))) said...

Sounds like Russia is a rational actor seeking a peaceful dialogue.

::eye roll::

Joe Conservative said...

Russia's done with peaceful dialogue. It was ignored.

Joe Conservative said...

I spent a lot of my working life trying to get inside Ivan's head. We're going to pay a heavy price for the Amateur hour IC/ DOD cadre we've got in place at the Pentagon/ Langley/ Foggy Bottom now.

Q said...

\\Blogger Joe Conservative said...
Russia's done with peaceful dialogue. It was ignored.

Like when they declared "YOU, NATO, go away from our (soon to be, as they thought then) backyard!!!" -- of course all West ignored such a grumpy gramps-like shout, and absolutely justified.

So? What EXACTLY moment did you have in mind when said that about "peaceful dialogue"?
Elaborate please.


\\Blogger Joe Conservative said...
Contrary to media reports, Russia's got nothing to lose.

Russia? Maybe.
Putin. Everything. Everything he have in this life, he will loose.
And he DO NOT believe in afterlife himself. Believe me. ;-)))
But he will loose everything if he'll not continue his current frantic efforts too.
Show must go on.(c)


\\Blogger Joe Conservative said...
As a former US Naval Reserve Office working for a defense contractor in their Aero & Naval Systems Division, I had a lot of fun working on proposals based upon our threat assessments and operational research simulations of weapons systems performance.

So?
What can you say (off the records) about all that Poseidons, Burevestniks and etc vapourware. ;-)


\\Blogger Joe Conservative said...
If NATO comes in now, they'll get tactically nuked, and there's a good chance that Russia will target NATO airbases and supply depot's in other countries.

With WHAT? :-))))


\\Blogger Joe Conservative said...
Had Ukraine given up, they probably had a chance to keep a seaport at Odessa, but that's off the table now, Russia's taking it all.

With WHAT??? :-))))


\\Blogger Joe Conservative said...
My argument is that the vast majority of the residents of these districts (blue above) are former Soviet Russian-speaking citizens and not ethnic Ukrainians. It's an "industrial" sector (80% of Ukraine's heavy industry). The ethnic Ukrainians are mostly in the wheat farming West.

"Russian-speaking citizens" that is common term to designate ALL people from Soviet Union, indifferently to their ethnicity.
That is the same as English-speaking citizens of a British empire.
Or a Roman-speaking citizens of a Roman empire.

That "industrial" sector means nothing in today's economy. Thatcher closed such an "industrial sector" in 80th. And even then it was looked as little bit too late decision.



\\Putin's original plan was to support the "autonomy" of the Donbas/Luhansk regions, but now is simply going to annex them to Mother Russia... and there's not a damn thing short of nuclear war that Ukraine and NATO can do about it.

Do you have good grasp of news. Latest ones, especially.
Russians fleeing from battlefield.
Well, thay call it "planned relocation" though. :-)))
So, what's your sources, man?

Joe Conservative said...

Your source is Western media? You might as well launch nukes on Russia now, before they've nuked 3/4's of the world's capitols and your sifting through the rubble wondering what happened.

Joe Conservative said...

I've shown you my dick. Now show me yours, or hit the road.

Joe Conservative said...

Unrestricted Line Officers (URL Officers) are commissioned Officers of the Line in the United States Navy, both Regular Navy and Navy Reserve, who are not restricted in the performance of duty,[1] and are qualified to Command at Sea the Navy's warfighting combatant units such as warships, submarines, aviation squadrons, and SEAL Teams. They are also qualified to command the higher echelons of those units, known as "major commands," such as destroyer and submarine squadrons, aviation wings and groups, and special warfare groups. At the Flag Officer level, they also command carrier strike groups, expeditionary strike groups, task forces, and Fleet and Force commands. URL officers are also eligible to command shore installations, facilities and activities directly supporting the Navy's warfare mission.

Joe Conservative said...

One of my former classmates.

Joe Conservative said...

My project management boss from 1994 to 2000.

Joe Conservative said...

...and fyi, Blogger "Joe Conservative", "FJ", "Thersites", et al are ALL the same blogger. (((TC))) is a different person.

(((TC))) said...

...from a parallel universe

Joe Conservative said...

;)

Q said...

\\Blogger Joe Conservative said...
...and fyi, Blogger "Joe Conservative", "FJ", "Thersites", et al are ALL the same blogger. (((TC))) is a different person.

Like I care.


\\Blogger Joe Conservative said...
I've shown you my dick. Now show me yours, or hit the road.

Like I care.
Show your wits. Or show that you scared lil sissy, which protects itself from Reality with bans and anonimous comments blocking.
About MY wits you have had enough opportunities to have a look (in that thread with TC).
So,
either you can continue our talk, and try to demonstrate that you have enough gray matter in your brain,
or
you can start screaming like that lil sissy-scunk TC that I am "idiot-idiot-idiot",
or... ban me out. :-)))))))))


\\Blogger Joe Conservative said...
Your source is Western media? You might as well launch nukes on Russia now, before they've nuked 3/4's of the world's capitols and your sifting through the rubble wondering what happened.

Ehm... do you know how many of their rocket launch tests was successfull, recently?
Or... YOU, despite all your honorifics, believe that their stationary and mobile rocket systems from USSR times have FREAKINGLY INFINITE term of usage and still able to start? :-)))))

Q said...

\\Blogger Joe Conservative said...
btw - Best Clancy thriller ever... "Red Storm Rising".

I like Debt of Honor more.

Well, problem of RSR is the same as with that Hollywood's "Enemy at the Gates" -- too much of western wishful thinking and too low knowledge of a trivias of life in USSR.
Well, Clancy hardly can be blamed for that. He is mere writer, still.

But it seems that all high-esteemed experts from Pentagon and CIA not any better.
It seems they just are incapable to learn from others mistake

Like that Otto von Bismarck have said:
"Never fight with Russia! Because any smart plan in Russian there is some kind of emergency you stupid, where this plan will fail."

Joe Conservative said...

Oh, I'm definitely a scared little sissy who hides in my basement whenever I hear thunder.

As for the Russian rockets, they can still get to the space station. We can't even get our SLS off the pad. The risk of an "accident" resulting in a program cancellation is too great for our fearless leaders. So we cancel launches at the sight of the smallest fuel leak.

And you are correct. Our leaders learn nothing from history. They get stupider by the day. That we are supporting Ukraine in this new proxy war with Russia just goes to show you how stupid and arrogant they've become.

Joe Conservative said...

Clancy's "Debt of Honor" was more a local "Baltimore" phenom. Kinda like "The Wire". Clancy was discovered from his books published out of the USNI Press, who also published a monthly magazine for US naval officer's called "Proceeding". I used to be a member. The USNA is just down the road from here, in Annapolis. I was also an ANSE member, once.

Q said...

\\Blogger Joe Conservative said...
Oh, I'm definitely a scared little sissy who hides in my basement whenever I hear thunder.

Ohh... in our tolerant times that's not a problem. ;-)


\\As for the Russian rockets, they can still get to the space station.

What's the big deal?
That is technology of mid-20th century.


\\We can't even get our SLS off the pad. The risk of an "accident" resulting in a program cancellation is too great for our fearless leaders. So we cancel launches at the sight of the smallest fuel leak.

Well, events like Chellenger's Firework was not enough? You want more?


\\And you are correct. Our leaders learn nothing from history. They get stupider by the day. That we are supporting Ukraine in this new proxy war with Russia just goes to show you how stupid and arrogant they've become.

That's your leaders. Means. Your problem(s?).

-FJ the Dangerous and Extreme MAGA Jew said...

One we would love to remedy in 2024.

Q said...

So, discussion stopped cold? That's so boring. :-)

Maybe I could propose a new topic to discuss.

For example clancy-like scenario of sino-WW3? ;-P
So you could show your expertise. Of a fleet admiral. :-)))

-FJ the Dangerous and Extreme MAGA Jew said...

I did 10 years in the USNR. They discharged me when I turned down a promotion to LT. I no longer had the time to take 2 week vacations on obsolete US destroyers about to be sold to the Turks.

The scenario for WW III is that we do something really stupid like blow up the Nordstream pipeline. But hey, if you're a Ukrainian, your loving it. I'm just sorry to say, I'm not your White Knight. I've got no love for Russians, but a Ukrainian and a Russian are pretty much the same thing in my book. I've got no dog in the fight and no reason to pick one.

-FJ the Dangerous and Extreme MAGA Jew said...

We didn't have very good leadership after Reagan. We should have done a lot more to integrate the former USSR into the capitalist economic system.... only the system we had "before Reagan". Reagan doubled down on globalism and "supply side economics. It was a huge mistake, IMO. Wall Street won out over Main Street and its' becoming dangerously necessary to go back, ala "Trump".

-FJ the Dangerous and Extreme MAGA Jew said...

Now if you're here to spew Ukrainian or Russian propaganda, hit the road. But if you want to discuss the world's problems and alternatives, stick around. We mostly do US politics and philosophy blended with psycho-analytics, but current events are fair game.

Q said...

\\The scenario for WW III is that we do something really stupid like blow up the Nordstream pipeline.

Or... that was Russians, trying to scare you and all West with WW3 scenario. ;-)

Well, why they SO CALM??? If that is not true? ;-P



\\\But hey, if you're a Ukrainian, your loving it. I'm just sorry to say, I'm not your White Knight. I've got no love for Russians,

So what?
You are not POTUS. And he is all-out PRO Ukraine. ;-P


\\but a Ukrainian and a Russian are pretty much the same thing in my book. I've got no dog in the fight and no reason to pick one.

Whatever. What made you. I mean USA, not you personally. To participate in WW1&2?

Here we are.



\\We didn't have very good leadership after Reagan. We should have done a lot more to integrate the former USSR into the capitalist economic system.... only the system we had "before Reagan". Reagan doubled down on globalism and "supply side economics. It was a huge mistake, IMO. Wall Street won out over Main Street and its' becoming dangerously necessary to go back, ala "Trump".

Your leaders. Your problems. ;-P



\\Now if you're here to spew Ukrainian or Russian propaganda

Even if I'd like (which is not), I cannot spew more Russian propaganda than you already spewing. Do you not see it yourself, doing it unconsciously, I dunno?

And yeah, that same question I tired to ask vatniks.
"Where you see? And what exactly you see as Ukrainian Propaganda?"


\\But if you want to discuss the world's problems and alternatives, stick around. We mostly do US politics and philosophy blended with psycho-analytics, but current events are fair game.

As far as I'll deem it interesting. Yes.

Thersites said...

Well, why they SO CALM???

Because we can still throw the Ukraine under the bus. And that's how this all ends. You're being used by NATO generals to fight the war that they never got to fight.... only this time... against a 98 pound weakling instead of the "bear" of the 50's, 60's and 70's..

Or... that was Russians, trying to scare you and all West with WW3 scenario.

Why would they intentionally decrease Russia's total GDP by 40%? Putin wants very much to join the "Capitalist Club" only the NATO oligarch's don't want any competition.

You are not POTUS. And he is all-out PRO Ukraine

What PotUS thinks doesn't matter. He'll do whatever the DCI tells him... at least if he's "Biden" still PotUS.

What made you... participate in WW1&2?

American industrialist looking to get rich. Woodrow Wilson "changed his mind" right after his 2nd term election instead of remaining neutral as he had "campaigned on in 1916" even in the face of a British naval blockade and German U-boats. Once Wilson let the horse out of the barn, the $ proved too good to turn down. By the end of WWII, American industrialsts had cornered most global markets and was free to exploit a destroyed Europe/ Asia.

Your leaders. Your problems.

You wish... 9/11 didn't happen "for no reasons".

I cannot spew more Russian propaganda than you already spewing. Do you not see it yourself, doing it unconsciously, I dunno?

You can't face hard facts by avoiding talking about them. The "market" for my ideas isn't Ukraine and won't impact Ukrainian morale. It's directed at you and your leaders to make them realize that American is an UNRELIABLE ALLY and will soon "throw you under the bus".

Where you see? And what exactly you see as Ukrainian Propaganda?"


I see "blue and yellow flags and armbands" everywhere. I see our Big Tech tech censoring American citizens in violation of their 1st Amendment Rights if they talk about Russia as if she were NOT our mortal enemy. I see even very smart DiEM25 Leftists like Slavoj Zizek blabbering about how we must maintain solidarility with the Ukrainian people in their fight against Russian imperialism. I see Ukarine portrayed as a victim and Russia as a bully in all the "politically correct" movies and television shows. It's been woven into the "politically correct thinking" of our "celebrity elites" like an AIDS ribbon and is regularly trotted out as a hip virtue signal.

As far as I'll deem it interesting. Yes.

Thats all I ask. Just don't look for agreement, as we typically call a spade, a spade. We don't hand out "PC virtue points".

Thersites said...

Understand this, America currently has two ideological camps. One is very imperialist/ expansionist and is currently the dominant political category. The other camp is anti-war and isolationist (Trump Republicans and Far Left). I'm in the Trump camp with the PaleoCons, beamish is in the GPOe camp with the NeoCon Republicans. Other who may comment here, like Dervish Sanders, is in the pro-War Democratic Party camp. Gert (who shows up every once in a while) is in the British "Labour" camp and is from the Left politically. Those are the current "players" here.

-FJ the Dangerous and Extreme MAGA Jew said...

erratum GOPe above.

Q said...

\\\\Blogger Thersites said...
\\\\Well, why they SO CALM???

\\Because we can still throw the Ukraine under the bus. And that's how this all ends.

"They" means Russians there. Why THEY so calm? If that is USA doing, that is EXCELLENT chance to pump it up, that old rubber thing from colder times -- Image of the Enemy.



\\\\Or... that was Russians, trying to scare you and all West with WW3 scenario.
\\Why would they intentionally decrease Russia's total GDP by 40%? Putin wants very much to join the "Capitalist Club" only the NATO oligarch's don't want any competition.

No. Not today. You really was in a frozen chamber for a half-year.
Putin, as that whiny kid, declared that "if you do not allow ME-E-E to play with the same toys as YOU-U-U... I'll go to that other children".
Breaking some toys to show how serious he is -- obvious in that setup. ;-)))

Remember. That quote of Bismark.
Quit seeking for smart reasons behind moves of RFia and Putin. There is NONE. :-)))))



\\\\What made you... participate in WW1&2?
\\American industrialist looking to get rich. Woodrow Wilson "changed his mind"...

See... you know it all yourself.
After this war, if it'll be successfull -- whole corps of whale of a 1/7 of all Earth grounds will be available to an economical conquest...



\\\\Your leaders. Your problems.
\\You wish... 9/11 didn't happen "for no reasons".

Well, I could continue with you on this question. But, as I showed already I am quite dispassionate about it. While for you that looks like pet peevy.Am I right?



\\\\I cannot spew more Russian propaganda than you already spewing. Do you not see it yourself, doing it unconsciously, I dunno?

\\You can't face hard facts by avoiding talking about them. The "market" for my ideas isn't Ukraine and won't impact Ukrainian morale. It's directed at you and your leaders to make them realize that American is an UNRELIABLE ALLY and will soon "throw you under the bus".

You just do not know history of Ukraine. Admit it.
Still, unrelaible ally better than no ally.

And well, was USA THAT MUCH unrelaible to a NATO members?
From your point of view. That's interesting.



\\\\Where you see? And what exactly you see as Ukrainian Propaganda?"
\\I see "blue and yellow flags and armbands" everywhere.

So what? That is just a fad.


\\ I see our Big Tech tech censoring American citizens in violation of their 1st Amendment Rights if they talk about Russia as if she were NOT our mortal enemy.

Well, that is YOUR propaganda and censure. See?


\\ I see even very smart DiEM25 Leftists like Slavoj Zizek blabbering about how we must maintain solidarility with the Ukrainian people in their fight against Russian imperialism.

And you do not? :-)))


\\ I see Ukarine portrayed as a victim and Russia as a bully in all the "politically correct" movies and television shows.

And that is not true? How so?


\\ It's been woven into the "politically correct thinking" of our "celebrity elites" like an AIDS ribbon and is regularly trotted out as a hip virtue signal.

Again. YOUR propaganda.

to sum it up
You drawning in a high waves of your own propaganda... but still blaming it on Ukraine.

To your concideration -- that is the same what vatniks do.(do with this fact whatever you want)




\\\\As far as I'll deem it interesting. Yes.
\\Just don't look for agreement, as we typically call a spade, a spade. We don't hand out "PC virtue points".

Ha-ha-ha... means you are not of 99% of asskissing/asslicking inhabitants of the Web.:-))))))
Well, now you know The Reason I am lurking as accountless spirit, anonimous, here. ;-P

-FJ the Dangerous and Extreme MAGA Jew said...

"They" means Russians there. Why THEY so calm? If that is USA doing, that is EXCELLENT chance to pump it up, that old rubber thing from colder times -- Image of the Enemy.

Like I said elsewhere, we'll eventually throw Ukraine under the bus, and THEY know it. WE are an unreliable ally. Ukarine will simply re-enter the Russian "Containment Zone" that our current crop of ex-Cold War generals believe Russia belongs in. We will, as you say, "pump it up"... but in the end... sorry. Ukraine'll end up with whatever "autonomy" Russia allows Ukraine to retain.

No. Not today. You really was in a frozen chamber for a half-year.
Putin, as that whiny kid, declared that "if you do not allow ME-E-E to play with the same toys as YOU-U-U... I'll go to that other children".
Breaking some toys to show how serious he is -- obvious in that setup. ;-)))
Remember. That quote of Bismark.
Quit seeking for smart reasons behind moves of RFia and Putin. There is NONE. :-)))))


Putin is not Vincent Van Gogh. Russia belongs in the G-(7,8,9,x) Club and Putin, NATO, and everyone else, knows it. Why we don't acknowledge the fact is beyond me.

\\\\What made you... participate in WW1&2?
See... you know it all yourself.
After this war, if it'll be successfull -- whole corps of whale of a 1/7 of all Earth grounds will be available to an economical conquest...


I'm sure that the current crop of American and European oligarchs backing Biden are thinking that way, but there's a new economic reality on the horizon. Their global econopmic sandbox is over, bordering on d-e-a-d. Borders matter and smaller is what's "sustainable". Their economic "tower of Babel" has exceeded it maximum height (become unsustainable).

\\You wish... 9/11 didn't happen "for no reasons".
Well, I could continue with you on this question. But, as I showed already I am quite dispassionate about it. While for you that looks like pet peevy.Am I right?


Again, 9/11 was but a symptom of the unsustainability of the economic globalism that emerged after WWII. I am sympathetic with ObL's argument, but not his actions. But much like Putin, we didn't leave him many "acceptable" alternatives.

\\You can't face hard facts by avoiding talking about them. The "market" for my ideas isn't Ukraine and won't impact Ukrainian morale. It's directed at you and your leaders to make them realize that American is an UNRELIABLE ALLY and will soon "throw you under the bus".
You just do not know history of Ukraine. Admit it.


I know enough of the recent history... because I wasn't asleep for the past 6 months. Of what happened before 1989, I have little interest. That falls into the USSR category as far as I'm concerned.

Still, unrelaible ally better than no ally.

Until the day that the unreliable ally turns his back on Ukraine and places it at the mercy of its' enemy.

And well, was USA THAT MUCH unrelaible to a NATO members?
From your point of view. That's interesting.


NATO members have been riding America's coat-tails. Time they started stitching their own. After WWII it was "understandable". Today it is not. Yes they need a "block" if they are to stand against Russia. But Germany/ France need to work it out. England will always be with us, even if they remain in NATO.... but they left the EU, so... if we left, they'd likely leave.

to be continued...

-FJ the Dangerous and Extreme MAGA Jew said...

\\I see "blue and yellow flags and armbands" everywhere.
So what? That is just a fad.


Propaganda is propaganda.

\\ I see our Big Tech tech censoring American citizens in violation of their 1st Amendment Rights if they talk about Russia as if she were NOT our mortal enemy.
Well, that is YOUR propaganda and censure. See?


Please. I'm not stupid. I know who pays for the coffee over at Jack's Magic Coffee Shop.

\\ I see even very smart DiEM25 Leftists like Slavoj Zizek blabbering about how we must maintain solidarility with the Ukrainian people in their fight against Russian imperialism.
And you do not? :-)))


I'm sympathetic, but not willing to kill or die for Ukraine.

\\ I see Ukarine portrayed as a victim and Russia as a bully in all the "politically correct" movies and television shows.
And that is not true? How so?


This is just more US propaganda provided with Ukrainian assistance.

\\ It's been woven into the "politically correct thinking" of our "celebrity elites" like an AIDS ribbon and is regularly trotted out as a hip virtue signal.
Again. YOUR propaganda.
to sum it up
You drawning in a high waves of your own propaganda... but still blaming it on Ukraine.


The Americans responsible for this propaganda about Ukraine and operating in concert with their "IT Army" are not my "allies". They are the "old" global order who love wars and will continue to sucker Ukraine, et al, to fight Russia for their personal "economic interests". In my preferred party, we call them Neocons, but they ally themselves with the opposition Democrats and form what we call the Uniparty.

To your concideration -- that is the same what vatniks do.(do with this fact whatever you want)

We don't call them vatniks. We call them "Useful Idiots" from the days of COMINTERN. I'm accused of being one all the time.. a Trump useful idiot. They say that I will stupidly do anything he says and allow him to "get away with anything". That gives Trump that much more power over them, so it's fine with me, I don't correct them. As for me, I believe that individuals should be given recognition for having their own agency to serve their own interests.

\\Just don't look for agreement, as we typically call a spade, a spade. We don't hand out "PC virtue points".
Ha-ha-ha... means you are not of 99% of asskissing/asslicking inhabitants of the Web.:-))))))
Well, now you know The Reason I am lurking as accountless spirit, anonimous, here. ;-P


Gauging the "unoffical" American sentiment. I get it. It's useful intelligence.

Q said...

\\I know enough of the recent history... because I wasn't asleep for the past 6 months. Of what happened before 1989, I have little interest. That falls into the USSR category as far as I'm concerned.

And about USSR you know "everything" in the same sense?
Well, suit yourself.
Only, you can't complain than, about that that Ams seen as knownothings around the World.


\\Until the day that the unreliable ally turns his back on Ukraine and places it at the mercy of its' enemy.

Again. You do not know history of Ukraine. :-)


\\Propaganda is propaganda.

Go watch "North Korea News" on YouTube. THAT IS -- PROPAGANDA!!! ;-)))



\\To your concideration -- that is the same what vatniks do.(do with this fact whatever you want)

\\We don't call them vatniks. We call them "Useful Idiots" from the days of COMINTERN. I'm accused of being one all the time.. a Trump useful idiot. They say that I will stupidly do anything he says and allow him to "get away with anything". That gives Trump that much more power over them, so it's fine with me, I don't correct them. As for me, I believe that individuals should be given recognition for having their own agency to serve their own interests.

"Vatniks" that's pro-Putin's non-thinking ultra-patriots. Well, like your lowest MAGA flag wavers. Yeah. :-)
"Useful idiots" was western "intellectuals" who was bought with Potiomkinskaya Derevnia of "prosperity under Soviet Socialism".



\\Gauging the "unoffical" American sentiment. I get it. It's useful intelligence.

That that you seeing all through glasses of partisan tribalism... that's unforunate. But not surprising.

So much for "individuals should be given recognition for having their own agency"...

Q said...

I don't like how this thread gone overly political.

As you assessed it already I am not from your hemisphere, and do not give a damn about you inner political struggles.

Because? I see I need to explain it, 'cause I predict you will not believe it.

Because I have no skin in your games.

Well, you'll not believe me anyway.
Well. Whatever :-)))

-FJ the Dangerous and Extreme MAGA Jew said...

Only, you can't complain than, about that that Ams seen as knownothings around the World.

Did you hear me complain?


Again. You do not know history of Ukraine. :-)

I don't know the history of Zimbabwe, either.


"Useful idiots" was western "intellectuals" who was bought with Potiomkinskaya Derevnia of "prosperity under Soviet Socialism".

All Socialism is a Potemkin Village. That's why "individuals" need to be recognized for their own "agency".


That that you seeing all through glasses of partisan tribalism... that's unforunate. But not surprising.

And Jacques Lacan's "Four Discourse Theory" is unnecessary "pseudoscience". Got it.


I don't like how this thread gone overly political.
As you assessed it already I am not from your hemisphere, and do not give a damn about you inner political struggles.
Because? I see I need to explain it, 'cause I predict you will not believe it.
Because I have no skin in your games.
Well, you'll not believe me anyway.
Well. Whatever :-)))


We can drop politics and talk about other subjects. Just move to a different thread. And as for not "believing you" you may be right, but unless you try...

-FJ the Dangerous and Extreme MAGA Jew said...

Four Discourse Theory sure looks mathematical... but then again, it's only a "pseudoscience".

-FJ the Dangerous and Extreme MAGA Jew said...

...and "individuals" needn't view issues from "other perspectives"... they should just become tribalists.

-FJ the Dangerous and Extreme MAGA Jew said...

:P

I wonder where you'll end up after the next Kuhnian paradigm shift?

Students of Foucault will one day have fun digging up all the positivists.

-FJ the Dangerous and Extreme MAGA Jew said...

:P

-FJ the Dangerous and Extreme MAGA Jew said...

Didn't they ever tell you? ALL Science is PseudoScience.

-FJ the Dangerous and Extreme MAGA Jew said...

Meanwhile, Honest Annie shifts the paradigm...

-FJ the Dangerous and Extreme MAGA Jew said...

"See ya, Sir Isaac, Albert's in the house...."

Q said...

\\\\Only, you can't complain than, about that that Ams seen as knownothings around the World.

\\Did you hear me complain?

That was not a try to sting you...



\\All Socialism is a Potemkin Village. That's why "individuals" need to be recognized for their own "agency".

Or de Soto's "intellectual error". ;-)


\\And Jacques Lacan's "Four Discourse Theory" is unnecessary "pseudoscience". Got it.

Well. Googled for it.

"Lacan's argument is that, equally, since castration denies subjects full access to their first love object (the mother), their choice of subsequent love objects is the choice of a series of objects that each resemble in part the lost object (perhaps they have the same hair, or look at him/her the same way the mother ..."

Naah... it still looks like a duck to me. ;-P

\\Four Discourse Theory sure looks mathematical... but then again, it's only a "pseudoscience".

You cannot imagine (tm) :-)
Pseudo-science like to use pseudo-math too. ;-P

\\...and "individuals" needn't view issues from "other perspectives"... they should just become tribalists.

Than... they not intellectual. (yawn)


\\Blogger -FJ the Dangerous and Extreme MAGA Jew said...
:P

\\I wonder where you'll end up after the next Kuhnian paradigm shift?

\\Students of Foucault will one day have fun digging up all the positivists.

Yeah. That is interesting topics to ponder.
But you did not made a statement worth of discussion, yet.


\\Blogger -FJ the Dangerous and Extreme MAGA Jew said...
Didn't they ever tell you? ALL Science is PseudoScience.

Yeah. "Pseudoscience" which give results.

Try to look at it this way -- if there really be God, means preying could generate some results -- teology would be a Science, and Physics -- pseudoscience. ;-P



\\And as for not "believing you" you may be right, but unless you try...

I do not seek for followers...

-FJ the Dangerous and Extreme MAGA Jew said...

\\All Socialism is a Potemkin Village. That's why "individuals" need to be recognized for their own "agency".
Or de Soto's "intellectual error". ;-)


Elaborate, please?


\\And Jacques Lacan's "Four Discourse Theory" is unnecessary "pseudoscience". Got it.
Well. Googled for it.
"Lacan's argument is that, equally, since castration denies subjects full access to their first love object (the mother), their choice of subsequent love objects is the choice of a series of objects that each resemble in part the lost object (perhaps they have the same hair, or look at him/her the same way the mother ..."
Naah... it still looks like a duck to me. ;-P


That wasn't a very good Google. You described by definition the Objet petit 'a, not four discourse theory. (btw - What's you opinion of the meaning of Bernini's "Daphne & Apollo"?)


\\Four Discourse Theory sure looks mathematical... but then again, it's only a "pseudoscience".
You cannot imagine (tm) :-)
Pseudo-science like to use pseudo-math too. ;-P


Math is math. It's an empty container. The "meanings" you assign to the variables... that is where the impurities enter.


\\...and "individuals" needn't view issues from "other perspectives"... they should just become tribalists.
Than... they not intellectual. (yawn)


But do those "intellectuals" have a "consistent" methodology for doing so? THAT is where Lacan's four discourse theory enters.


\\Students of Foucault will one day have fun digging up all the positivists.
Yeah. That is interesting topics to ponder.
But you did not made a statement worth of discussion, yet.


That's a shame.


Didn't they ever tell you? ALL Science is PseudoScience.
Yeah. "Pseudoscience" which give results.
Try to look at it this way -- if there really be God, means preying could generate some results -- teology would be a Science, and Physics -- pseudoscience. ;-P


Now you sound like a Nietzschean "truth relativist"...."The criterion of truth resides in the heightening of the feeling of power."

Some sciences certainly make us certainly "feel" more powerful than others.


\\And as for not "believing you" you may be right, but unless you try...
I do not seek for followers...


“What? You seek something? You wish to multiply yourself tenfold, a hundredfold? You seek followers? Seek zeros!”
― Friedrich Nietzsche :)

Q said...

\\\\Or de Soto's "intellectual error". ;-)

\\Elaborate, please?

Easy to google, that easy to read book(s).
Basicly, that "labour theory of value" is flatly wrong.


\\(btw - What's you opinion of the meaning of Bernini's "Daphne & Apollo"?)

Have no 3D glasses. :-(


\\Math is math. It's an empty container. The "meanings" you assign to the variables... that is where the impurities enter.

That is... obvious misunderstanding.
"Music that is merely sound waves" kind.


\\But do those "intellectuals" have a "consistent" methodology for doing so? THAT is where Lacan's four discourse theory enters.

"Methodology" that is something methodologists claim being overly important.
Same with phylosophy. ;-)
Still, I like idle thinking too. That's what makes us humans. Without it we'd continue to be nothing more then mere homo habilis.


\\That's a shame.

I am not oblijed to make your point for you(as it is with TC), am I?


\\Now you sound like a Nietzschean "truth relativist"...."The criterion of truth resides in the heightening of the feeling of power."

Was Nietzsche pragmatic? ;-)


\\“What? You seek something? You wish to multiply yourself tenfold, a hundredfold? You seek followers? Seek zeros!”
― Friedrich Nietzsche :)


Yap! :-)

Joe Conservative said...

\\\\Or de Soto's "intellectual error". ;-)
\\Elaborate, please?
Easy to google, that easy to read book(s).
Basicly, that "labour theory of value" is flatly wrong.


Then we agree. Just look at MicroSoft or Apple...


"Methodology" that is something methodologists claim being overly important.
Same with phylosophy. ;-)
Still, I like idle thinking too. That's what makes us humans. Without it we'd continue to be nothing more then mere homo habilis.


"Process/ methodology" is what keeps the bureaucracy functioning...


\\That's a shame.
I am not oblijed to make your point for you(as it is with TC), am I?


Ignore all the jabs you like. Not all of them land.


\\Now you sound like a Nietzschean "truth relativist"...."The criterion of truth resides in the heightening of the feeling of power."
Was Nietzsche pragmatic? ;-)


Before, or after, he went "insane"?

Q said...

\\Before, or after, he went "insane"?

Than answer is no. Because it is not transient trait.
By definition.
One cannot be a dreamer and then poof, and became pragmatic.
And vise versa. :-)

-FJ the Dangerous and Extreme MAGA Jew said...

I would disagree. There can be transient events, like a Great Depression or war, that would have an impact... a dreamer forced to become more pragmatic. The reverse is probably not as likely. My MiL was young during the Depression and grew up to be very pragmatic. Today she's well to do, but she still squeezes her every penny. It made her "antifragile".