“They saw their injured country's woe;
The flaming town, the wasted field;
Then rushed to meet the insulting foe;
They took the spear, - but left the shield.”
―Philip Freneau
.
And by a prudent flight and cunning save A life which valour could not, from the grave. A better buckler I can soon regain, But who can get another life again?
Archilochus
Wednesday, November 8, 2023
On Both Futurelessness AND the Future
Is this the underlying philosophical basis for the Grok anti-bias algorithm? Imagine the conflict between parties resolved, and begin the answer from there?
43 comments:
Robert's Sister
said...
I’ve been down this path, beaten this horse, and picked on this scab a time or two, so you may have heard me rail against or at least muse about this issue (or set of issues) before. My blog on White Guilt fully outlines (how’s that for an oxymoron?) the concept, but in short, white Guilt is the result of the perpetual victimization of black people and white people’s shame, and horror . . . Guilt being manipulated by both black and white leaders in our society, in our government, and in our press. I’ve long thought this white guilt was the reason that Barack Obama wasn’t held to the same standards as other presidential candidates, and now, I feel vindicated in that belief. Because “Barack” woulnt do anything wrong!
Obama gives a good, albeit empty speech; he’s a great public speaker, no doubt in my mind about that. But I’ve never quite “got” what the whole “Change we can believe in” thing was about. Change from what (bad George Bush) to what (good Barack Obama)? Don’t forget, Barack won’t do anything wrong. Well, isn’t that what every candidate intends . . . to replace and improve upon the works of the sitting president? Isn’t that why they run? Vague until last week’s DNC about specific changes, Obama now promises every American a college education, health care, job stability, and a puppy. Okay, every politician promises that. How’s he going to pay for it? Something, I hesitate to call it fuzzy math, to do with the budget; he’s not clear on that tiny detail.
He’s for the environment, so we know he wants us to go greener, but everyone is “for” the environment these days; how’s he stand out? By saying we shouldn’t drill off our shores. And then saying, well, maybe we should in a limited capacity (this only after polls showed that people want us to be oil independent and his charm wasn’t making them budge on that point). He said that he was against the war in Iraq and (according to him) always had been; indeed, he says, had he been in the Senate at the time, which he wasn’t so we can’t know how he would have voted if presented with all the evidence and arguments at that time, he would have voted against it. He condemns anyone and everyone who voted for it. Well, everyone except his VP running mate, Joe Biden who voted as Hillary Clinton did, indeed as many of people on the left did. But hey, that’s okay, it’s Barack, and “Barack” don’t do anything wrong!.
Now I am for the most part a pretty understanding person, and I am willing to hear anyone’s opinions even when if differs from mine, but on the other hand, i don’t care to be insulted and/or called those vicious disgusting names or be put down because of my political persuasion, and may I add that y don’t want to see me angry because that is when the other side of me comes out! I seek the truth, so unless you have something important, and truthful to say, don’t say it. Now, as for the liberal/Progressives way of thinking, and one of the things that get my goat is their stance on Illegal Immigration, and our Open Borders, especially when it comes to Muslims,, All you need to know about Muslims you should have learned on October 7th. And or on September the 11th. . It’s time, for the sake of the security of the United States of America, to immediately put their foot down on Illegal immigration. When will enough be enough?
Meanwhile... on the old "balance of powers" front...
...one might still reject a vision of global conquest and sameness from a single good, and embrace one of global cooperation and differentiated/optimized combinations of goods. Where like Rousseau's "Emile", one might travel and find a place where one can settle down and pursue their "own" unique "goods".
Not everyone wants to "Grok" to understand intuitively or by empathy, to establish rapport with" and "to empathize or communicate sympathetically (with); also, to experience enjoyment"
Grok means "to understand", of course, but Dr. Mahmoud, who might be termed the leading Terran expert on Martians, explains that it also means, "to drink" and "a hundred other English words, words which we think of as antithetical concepts. 'Grok' means all of these. It means 'fear', it means 'love', it means 'hate' – proper hate, for by the Martian 'map' you cannot hate anything unless you grok it, understand it so thoroughly that you merge with it and it merges with you – then you can hate it. By hating yourself. But this implies that you love it, too, and cherish it and would not have it otherwise. Then you can hate – and (I think) Martian hate is an emotion so black that the nearest human equivalent could only be called mild distaste.[4]
Grok means "identically equal". The human cliché "This hurts me worse than it does you" has a distinctly Martian flavor. The Martian seems to know instinctively what we learned painfully from modern physics, that observer acts with observed through the process of observation. Grok means to understand so thoroughly that the observer becomes a part of the observed – to merge, blend, intermarry, lose identity in group experience. It means almost everything that we mean by religion, philosophy, and science and it means as little to us as color does to a blind man.[4][5]
Sometimes we need a break, a "time out" for ourselves. Ritual periods during which we withdraw from "Grokking" and experience solitude... boredom... and digest all that we had previously "Grokked".
As Zizek would say, "I don't want to grok with Hitler, or Lenin." I'm sure they loved dogs, cats, or small children. But I can do without understanding why they established Auswitz and/or the Gulag.
\\As Zizek would say, "I don't want to grok with Hitler, or Lenin." I'm sure they loved dogs, cats, or small children. But I can do without understanding why they established Auswitz and/or the Gulag.
Too bad.
Because that is ONLY way how to not repeat their path.
\\My blog on White Guilt fully outlines (how’s that for an oxymoron?) the concept... /Not versed culturally to grok it. :-(((
It can be taken two ways. Isn't a "full" outline the text it outlines? The meat on the bones?
\\As Zizek would say, "I don't want to grok with Hitler, or Lenin." I'm sure they loved dogs, cats, or small children. But I can do without understanding why they established Auswitz and/or the Gulag. /Too bad. Because that is ONLY way how to not repeat their path.
No, one can simply have "right opinion" that it was wrong to treat ANYONE that way, and leave it at that. Besides, Both Hitler and Lenin had a public face, and a hidden face... one spoken, the other unspoken. And the horrors went largely "unspoken". It wasn't enough to "talk about it". You had to "see it" to grok it. Like the first films of the extermination camps. They brought in Hollywood directors like John Ford to film them. Maybe its' the same with LilPut.
\\No, one can simply have "right opinion" that it was wrong to treat ANYONE that way, and leave it at that. /Those who do not want to start new social revolution. Or some extravagant reforms. ;-)
Those that understand that people only get that full understanding after experiencing and Grokking the problem, and so, preclude it in a Promethean, rather than Epimethean, manner. They keep Pandoras jar closed.
\\Lenin had a public face, and a hidden face... one spoken, the other unspoken. And the horrors went largely "unspoken". BS. What is "unspoken" in words "dictatorship of proletariat"??? Or what... their methods was unknown??? That that now called terrorism. You are under influence of Lefty Propaganda. ;-P
Do the words "dictatorship of the proletariat" convey Grokking? Or does 12 years in the gulag do it better? btw - Trump has 4 "Show Trials" scheduled. Think he'll confess, repent, and accept the judgement of the Dem's Kangaroo Court?
Yes, I'm under the influence... but not in a good way. My Dept of Justice and Intelligence Coomunity has been weaponized against me. I'm living it what will soon become a Stalinist "one party state". Democratic (as NewSpeak single word oxymoron).
\\ Maybe its' the same with LilPut. /After Syria??? No... after massacre and bombing out of Chechnya.
Neither made the News much, here.
\\It's why the Palestinians are so anxious to have film crews see the victims, and even "stage" them. Seeing is believing. /Yep. While covering em under white sheets :-)))
...and blood stains (which they forgot with the first attack on the hospital). It was too "impromptu" a performance. Random missile misfire. Not like that stupid chemical weapons fakery.
\\Those that understand that people only get that full understanding after experiencing and Grokking the problem, and so, preclude it in a Promethean, rather than Epimethean, manner. They keep Pandoras jar closed.
That's just fear.
Which hypocritically trying to pose as Wisdom.
Meh.
\\Do the words "dictatorship of the proletariat" convey Grokking? Or does 12 years in the gulag do it better?
Neither.
Only historical hindsight. ;-)
Because hindsoght always 20/20. ;-P
\\btw - Trump has 4 "Show Trials" scheduled. Think he'll confess, repent, and accept the judgement of the Dem's Kangaroo Court?
:-)))))))
Why this question???
Do you still thinking that I am some kind of Derpy in disguise?
\\.I'm living it what will soon become a Stalinist "one party state". Democratic (as NewSpeak single word oxymoron).
Humble bragging?
I still unsure about that your new concept.
You have not a slightest idea about stalinism.
Me neither.
Only that few of your Ams who was in North Korea... but they not that accessible to share their experience...
\\Neither made the News much, here.
That's it.
And do you know -- why???
\\...and blood stains (which they forgot with the first attack on the hospital). It was too "impromptu" a performance. Random missile misfire. Not like that stupid chemical weapons fakery.
Well.
Today they report only some dozens victims. In similar "bombing of a hospital"
And all that 800 corpses story are totally forgotten.
Which is telling. ;-P
Pity that you didn't read "Futurological Congress" yet
\\Those that understand that people only get that full understanding after experiencing and Grokking the problem, and so, preclude it in a Promethean, rather than Epimethean, manner. They keep Pandoras jar closed. /That's just fear. Which hypocritically trying to pose as Wisdom. Meh.
We wouldn't have "fire" w/o it. ;)
\\Do the words "dictatorship of the proletariat" convey Grokking? Or does 12 years in the gulag do it better? /Neither. Only historical hindsight. ;-) Because hindsoght always 20/20. ;-P
Epimetheus rules the Adult mind.
\\btw - Trump has 4 "Show Trials" scheduled. Think he'll confess, repent, and accept the judgement of the Dem's Kangaroo Court? /:-))))))) Why this question??? Do you still thinking that I am some kind of Derpy in disguise?
No, it was a rhetorical question, as Trump (not Dervy) already Groks the Demn agenda. Epimetheus has repeated himself 4x. And Trump isn't "insane". Something else must be done.
\\.I'm living it what will soon become a Stalinist "one party state". Democratic (as NewSpeak single word oxymoron). /Humble bragging? I still unsure about that your new concept. You have not a slightest idea about stalinism. Me neither. Only that few of your Ams who was in North Korea... but they not that accessible to share their experience...
You don't need to be a genius to recognize a one-party state. It's in every city in the USA.
\\Neither made the News much, here. /That's it. And do you know -- why???
No political "hay" to be made out of the victims, probably.
\\...and blood stains (which they forgot with the first attack on the hospital). It was too "impromptu" a performance. Random missile misfire. Not like that stupid chemical weapons fakery. /Well. Today they report only some dozens victims. In similar "bombing of a hospital" And all that 800 corpses story are totally forgotten. Which is telling. ;-P Pity that you didn't read "Futurological Congress" yet
I just finished Drunken Angel. Maybe you could spare a few hints?
I'd better look at our cousins monkeys -- and watch how they would acqure that fire.
To have more prospects into how it was with us.
Do you know about
Washoe (chimpanzee) https://en.wikipedia.org › wiki · ... chimpanzees, seeming shocked to learn that she was not the only chimpanzee. ... ISBN 978-0-8153-1281-9 . ^ Herbert Terrace (December 4, 1980). "More on Monkey ...
\\Epimetheus rules the Adult mind.
Another sci-fi reminiscence.
This time about a planet... where only children are intelligent, in our human sense.
When they became adults, they are like insects... with very sophisticated instincts.
\\No, it was a rhetorical question, as Trump (not Dervy) already Groks the Demn agenda. Epimetheus has repeated himself 4x. And Trump isn't "insane". Something else must be done.
Well. You know what DEMN screaming about... him turning Hitler.
Even though there are bunch of way MORE capable to pose as one.
But no... they want to scream "Hitler, Hitler"... yawn.
Really, you are country "Turn it ALL to Eleven". :-)
As some other Ams have explained to me -- see, that is thing I would nit be able to come up with myself.
\\You don't need to be a genius to recognize a one-party state. It's in every city in the USA.
There can be ONLY ONE... hierarchy of control.
That is rule of this Universe -- wanna do something with it?
\\No political "hay" to be made out of the victims, probably.
And this too.
But that is only more recent development of it.
Before... that was not a problem at all.
\\I just finished Drunken Angel. Maybe you could spare a few hints?
I have pointed to some good reviews in English.
But, basicly that is holistic thing.
Like that paintings you giving links to me.
It can be summarized, yes. But it'll miss this or that point.
Like this Drunken Angel -- what part of it can be omitted?
Realities of after war Japan? Yakudza culture? Unusually meddling doctor-drunkard in his hopeless fight against TB?
Change or omit that circumstances of time and place -- and story will be different.
\\We wouldn't have "fire" w/o it. ;) /I'd better look at our cousins monkeys -- and watch how they would acqure that fire. To have more prospects into how it was with us. Do you know about: Washoe (chimpanzee) https://en.wikipedia.org › wiki · ... chimpanzees, seeming shocked to learn that she was not the only chimpanzee. ... ISBN 978-0-8153-1281-9 . ^ Herbert Terrace (December 4, 1980). "More on Monkey ...
That chimps are capable of mimesis, I have little doubt. Most animals are.
\\Epimetheus rules the Adult mind. /Another sci-fi reminiscence. This time about a planet... where only children are intelligent, in our human sense. When they became adults, they are like insects... with very sophisticated instincts.
Plato had a story like that in "Statesman". Everything in the Age of Kronos was the reverse of that of the Age of Zeus. Life lived "backwards". Men rose from the Earth as old men, and grew younger...
\\No, it was a rhetorical question, as Trump (not Dervy) already Groks the Demn agenda. Epimetheus has repeated himself 4x. And Trump isn't "insane". Something else must be done. /Well. You know what DEMN screaming about... him turning Hitler. Even though there are bunch of way MORE capable to pose as one. But no... they want to scream "Hitler, Hitler"... yawn. Really, you are country "Turn it ALL to Eleven". :-) As some other Ams have explained to me -- see, that is thing I would nit be able to come up with myself.
Nietzsche, "Beyond Good and Evil" (146) "Whoever fights monsters should see to it that in the process he does not become a monster. And when you look long into an abyss, the abyss also looks into you.":P
\\You don't need to be a genius to recognize a one-party state. It's in every city in the USA. /There can be ONLY ONE... hierarchy of control. That is rule of this Universe -- wanna do something with it?
Sparta had 2 kings. Rome, 2 consuls. America, 2 parties. All with 1 government, and 2 SuperEgos. DIVIDED Power. Exercised individually at separate times... alternating. Only when it's the Republicans turn, the minions no longer listen to them and keep acting as if Democrats were in charge. That is what happened under Trump.
\\No political "hay" to be made out of the victims, probably. /And this too. But that is only more recent development of it. Before... that was not a problem at all.
Most news is either meant for Domestic action, or to justify more money being spent.
\\I just finished Drunken Angel. Maybe you could spare a few hints? /I have pointed to some good reviews in English. But, basicly that is holistic thing. Like that paintings you giving links to me. It can be summarized, yes. But it'll miss this or that point. Like this Drunken Angel -- what part of it can be omitted? Realities of after war Japan? Yakudza culture? Unusually meddling doctor-drunkard in his hopeless fight against TB? Change or omit that circumstances of time and place -- and story will be different.
Yes a "frame" for the picture that gives it a more definite meaning. Like did Yakuza replace Samurai, and how did "foreign influence" (America) aid in said replacement. After all, we're no angels. ;)
\Well, for at least, champanse that can talk -- isn't it interesting topic? /Well. Also. I made one sneaky remark there, in pSaws nest. One dumb ass remembered: "No wonder back in 2007 George Carlin said, "This country is finished". " And I reminded... that that was BEFORE Zero-bama's inception. And of course... it was not disclosed. :-))))))) Cowardicity -- is the second name of DEMNS. :-)))))))
They like to play "Gag the chimp". ;) It's what happens when the powerless gain a little power (over display of comments). Their SuperEgo flexes.
\\That chimps are capable of mimesis, I have little doubt. Most animals are.
Actual talking too? ;-)
\\Plato had a story like that in "Statesman". Everything in the Age of Kronos was the reverse of that of the Age of Zeus. Life lived "backwards". Men rose from the Earth as old men, and grew younger...
And you said you do not like sci-fi...
\\Only when it's the Republicans turn, the minions no longer listen to them and keep acting as if Democrats were in charge.
His own fault... for trying to sit behind the wheel... without training/learnign how to drive.
And I am not sure that he learned anything... in passing almost decade.
But well, I'm glad that I am foreigner... and that is NMP.
\\Most news is either meant for Domestic action, or to justify more money being spent.
Or just to entertain... ;-)
\\Like did Yakuza replace Samurai, and how did "foreign influence" (America) aid in said replacement. After all, we're no angels. ;)
You think there was no criminals under samurais???
And their culture is try to mimic ideas of bushido... on their profane level.
And... you too much overemphatising your influence.
Looks like they have mich bigger influence on you... then vice versa. ;-)
\\They like to play "Gag the chimp". ;) It's what happens when the powerless gain a little power (over display
As for me... that is just a manifestation of famale sub-culture.
Didn't it happen to you in your life, when famale couterpart saying: "I do not want to talk about it" with a face like that is royal rescript you must follow without any whining... and you do? ;-)
Ever have an Amazon? Or a Guacamaya (Macaw). I did. Do all robins sound the same, sing the same songs? Ever hear of Tereus, Procne, and Philomela? Bird language?
We would need a complete re-braining to understand them.
RW Emerson, "On the Conduct of Life (Beauty)"
We should go to the ornithologist with a new feeling, if he could teach us what the social birds say, when they sit in the autumn council, talking together in the trees. The want of sympathy makes his record a dull dictionary. His result is a dead bird. The bird is not in its ounces and inches, but in its relations to Nature; and the skin or skeleton you show me, is no more a heron, than a heap of ashes or a bottle of gases into which his body has been reduced, is Dante or Washington. The naturalist is led from the road by the whole distance of his fancied advance. The boy had juster views when he gazed at the shells on the beach, or the flowers in the meadow, unable to call them by their names, than the man in the pride of his nomenclature. Astrology interested us, for it tied man to the system. Instead of an isolated beggar, the farthest star felt him, and he felt the star. However rash and however falsified by pretenders and traders in it, the hint was true and divine, the soul's avowal of its large relations, and, that climate, century, remote natures, as well as near, are part of its biography. Chemistry takes to pieces, but it does not construct. Alchemy which sought to transmute one element into another, to prolong life, to arm with power, — that was in the right direction. All our science lacks a human side. The tenant is more than the house. Bugs and stamens and spores, on which we lavish so many years, are not finalities, and man, when his powers unfold in order, will take Nature along with him, and emit light into all her recesses. The human heart concerns us more than the poring into microscopes, and is larger than can be measured by the pompous figures of the astronomer.
Birds are 3D creature. We're much like the 2D catepillar who's brain turns to goo during metamorphosis, so that it can cope with a butterfly's 3D life.
...and yes, it is a female culture. The male culture, is Lacanian. Laconic. Few words. Acta non verba. "Alexander never did what he said, and Caesar never said what he did" (Italian proverb).
Our brains solve problems of our physical space. It forms the basis of our rationality. But other spaces have other problems requiring different intelligences. Like "metabolic" space. Neuroplastic forms follow the functions created by the problems they must adapt to, and overcome.
What problems must we adapt to to overcome. Time. Space. Space-time. Given the expansion of our Universe thus far, the time, distance and energy requirements seem dominant.
\\Birds are 3D creature. We're much like the 2D catepillar who's brain turns to goo during metamorphosis, so that it can cope with a butterfly's 3D life.
43 comments:
I’ve been down this path, beaten this horse, and picked on this scab a time or two, so you may have heard me rail against or at least muse about this issue (or set of issues) before. My blog on White Guilt fully outlines (how’s that for an oxymoron?) the concept, but in short, white Guilt is the result of the perpetual victimization of black people and white people’s shame, and horror . . . Guilt being manipulated by both black and white leaders in our society, in our government, and in our press. I’ve long thought this white guilt was the reason that Barack Obama wasn’t held to the same standards as other presidential candidates, and now, I feel vindicated in that belief. Because “Barack” woulnt do anything wrong!
Obama gives a good, albeit empty speech; he’s a great public speaker, no doubt in my mind about that. But I’ve never quite “got” what the whole “Change we can believe in” thing was about. Change from what (bad George Bush) to what (good Barack Obama)? Don’t forget, Barack won’t do anything wrong. Well, isn’t that what every candidate intends . . . to replace and improve upon the works of the sitting president? Isn’t that why they run? Vague until last week’s DNC about specific changes, Obama now promises every American a college education, health care, job stability, and a puppy. Okay, every politician promises that. How’s he going to pay for it? Something, I hesitate to call it fuzzy math, to do with the budget; he’s not clear on that tiny detail.
He’s for the environment, so we know he wants us to go greener, but everyone is “for” the environment these days; how’s he stand out? By saying we shouldn’t drill off our shores. And then saying, well, maybe we should in a limited capacity (this only after polls showed that people want us to be oil independent and his charm wasn’t making them budge on that point). He said that he was against the war in Iraq and (according to him) always had been; indeed, he says, had he been in the Senate at the time, which he wasn’t so we can’t know how he would have voted if presented with all the evidence and arguments at that time, he would have voted against it. He condemns anyone and everyone who voted for it. Well, everyone except his VP running mate, Joe Biden who voted as Hillary Clinton did, indeed as many of people on the left did. But hey, that’s okay, it’s Barack, and “Barack” don’t do anything wrong!.
Now I am for the most part a pretty understanding person, and I am willing to hear anyone’s opinions even when if differs from mine, but on the other hand, i don’t care to be insulted and/or called those vicious disgusting names or be put down because of my political persuasion, and may I add that y don’t want to see me angry because that is when the other side of me comes out! I seek the truth, so unless you have something important, and truthful to say, don’t say it.
Now, as for the liberal/Progressives way of thinking, and one of the things that get my goat is their stance on Illegal Immigration, and our Open Borders, especially when it comes to Muslims,, All you need to know about Muslims you should have learned on October 7th. And or on September the 11th. .
It’s time, for the sake of the security of the United States of America, to immediately put their foot down on Illegal immigration. When will enough be enough?
That is surely text generated by AI.
In foul tryes to mimic toughtful human. ;-P
You really are most exceptional and most profound country...
The other alternative... it's a rant from someone who's trying to express his frustrations with our current social/political system.
...but given that it uses Oxford commas, you might be right.
\\The other alternative... it's a rant from someone who's trying to express his frustrations with our current social/political system.
Then that ranter is a psicho. To dump such a big train of thoughts, to a stranger...
Or a crook... like that spam latters.
But this one, devoid of obvious reason. Which is hard to produce for mere people -- but very simple for AI templates. ;-P
The AI template's program parameters came from somewhere. Probably my investigatory IC overlords trying to determine my threat level.
It's the new hypernormal.
\\The AI template's program parameters came from somewhere.
EVERYthing in this world do come from somewhere... that was my point when I talked contra "emergence".
Well... that is just a phylosophical stance -- but was there anybody who was able to demonstrate something else?
A blog plug?
???
My blog on White Guilt fully outlines (how’s that for an oxymoron?) the concept...
People plugging their blogs often leave a link. That may be its' name?
Meanwhile... on the old "balance of powers" front...
...one might still reject a vision of global conquest and sameness from a single good, and embrace one of global cooperation and differentiated/optimized combinations of goods. Where like Rousseau's "Emile", one might travel and find a place where one can settle down and pursue their "own" unique "goods".
Not everyone should be forced to become an entrepreneur hawking his skills on the internet and practicing profilicity, rather than "authenticity".
Not everyone wants to "Grok" to understand intuitively or by empathy, to establish rapport with" and "to empathize or communicate sympathetically (with); also, to experience enjoyment"
Grok means "to understand", of course, but Dr. Mahmoud, who might be termed the leading Terran expert on Martians, explains that it also means, "to drink" and "a hundred other English words, words which we think of as antithetical concepts. 'Grok' means all of these. It means 'fear', it means 'love', it means 'hate' – proper hate, for by the Martian 'map' you cannot hate anything unless you grok it, understand it so thoroughly that you merge with it and it merges with you – then you can hate it. By hating yourself. But this implies that you love it, too, and cherish it and would not have it otherwise. Then you can hate – and (I think) Martian hate is an emotion so black that the nearest human equivalent could only be called mild distaste.[4]
Grok means "identically equal". The human cliché "This hurts me worse than it does you" has a distinctly Martian flavor. The Martian seems to know instinctively what we learned painfully from modern physics, that observer acts with observed through the process of observation. Grok means to understand so thoroughly that the observer becomes a part of the observed – to merge, blend, intermarry, lose identity in group experience. It means almost everything that we mean by religion, philosophy, and science and it means as little to us as color does to a blind man.[4][5]
Sometimes we need a break, a "time out" for ourselves. Ritual periods during which we withdraw from "Grokking" and experience solitude... boredom... and digest all that we had previously "Grokked".
As Zizek would say, "I don't want to grok with Hitler, or Lenin." I'm sure they loved dogs, cats, or small children. But I can do without understanding why they established Auswitz and/or the Gulag.
:P
Nobody wants to Grok with a bad neighbor.
...or at least, Meden agan with grokking.
\\My blog on White Guilt fully outlines (how’s that for an oxymoron?) the concept...
Not versed culturally to grok it. :-(((
\\People plugging their blogs often leave a link. That may be its' name?
Probably the same.
New things in culture even more hard to grasp, to grok, to explain...
\\As Zizek would say, "I don't want to grok with Hitler, or Lenin." I'm sure they loved dogs, cats, or small children. But I can do without understanding why they established Auswitz and/or the Gulag.
Too bad.
Because that is ONLY way how to not repeat their path.
\\My blog on White Guilt fully outlines (how’s that for an oxymoron?) the concept...
/Not versed culturally to grok it. :-(((
It can be taken two ways. Isn't a "full" outline the text it outlines? The meat on the bones?
\\As Zizek would say, "I don't want to grok with Hitler, or Lenin." I'm sure they loved dogs, cats, or small children. But I can do without understanding why they established Auswitz and/or the Gulag.
/Too bad.
Because that is ONLY way how to not repeat their path.
No, one can simply have "right opinion" that it was wrong to treat ANYONE that way, and leave it at that. Besides, Both Hitler and Lenin had a public face, and a hidden face... one spoken, the other unspoken. And the horrors went largely "unspoken". It wasn't enough to "talk about it". You had to "see it" to grok it. Like the first films of the extermination camps. They brought in Hollywood directors like John Ford to film them. Maybe its' the same with LilPut.
It's why the Palestinians are so anxious to have film crews see the victims, and even "stage" them. Seeing is believing.
Words are too far off... distant, to convey the meaning, to "grok it".
...the banality of evil.
...it has to be "experienced" to fully grok.
\\No, one can simply have "right opinion" that it was wrong to treat ANYONE that way, and leave it at that.
Those who do not want to start new social revolution. Or some extravagant reforms. ;-)
\\Lenin had a public face, and a hidden face... one spoken, the other unspoken. And the horrors went largely "unspoken".
BS.
What is "unspoken" in words "dictatorship of proletariat"???
Or what... their methods was unknown??? That that now called terrorism.
You are under influence of Lefty Propaganda. ;-P
\\ Maybe its' the same with LilPut.
After Syria???
No... after massacre and bombing out of Chechnya.
\\It's why the Palestinians are so anxious to have film crews see the victims, and even "stage" them. Seeing is believing.
Yep. While covering em under white sheets :-)))
\\No, one can simply have "right opinion" that it was wrong to treat ANYONE that way, and leave it at that.
/Those who do not want to start new social revolution. Or some extravagant reforms. ;-)
Those that understand that people only get that full understanding after experiencing and Grokking the problem, and so, preclude it in a Promethean, rather than Epimethean, manner. They keep Pandoras jar closed.
\\Lenin had a public face, and a hidden face... one spoken, the other unspoken. And the horrors went largely "unspoken".
BS.
What is "unspoken" in words "dictatorship of proletariat"???
Or what... their methods was unknown??? That that now called terrorism.
You are under influence of Lefty Propaganda. ;-P
Do the words "dictatorship of the proletariat" convey Grokking? Or does 12 years in the gulag do it better? btw - Trump has 4 "Show Trials" scheduled. Think he'll confess, repent, and accept the judgement of the Dem's Kangaroo Court?
Yes, I'm under the influence... but not in a good way. My Dept of Justice and Intelligence Coomunity has been weaponized against me. I'm living it what will soon become a Stalinist "one party state". Democratic (as NewSpeak single word oxymoron).
\\ Maybe its' the same with LilPut.
/After Syria???
No... after massacre and bombing out of Chechnya.
Neither made the News much, here.
\\It's why the Palestinians are so anxious to have film crews see the victims, and even "stage" them. Seeing is believing.
/Yep. While covering em under white sheets :-)))
...and blood stains (which they forgot with the first attack on the hospital). It was too "impromptu" a performance. Random missile misfire. Not like that stupid chemical weapons fakery.
\\Those that understand that people only get that full understanding after experiencing and Grokking the problem, and so, preclude it in a Promethean, rather than Epimethean, manner. They keep Pandoras jar closed.
That's just fear.
Which hypocritically trying to pose as Wisdom.
Meh.
\\Do the words "dictatorship of the proletariat" convey Grokking? Or does 12 years in the gulag do it better?
Neither.
Only historical hindsight. ;-)
Because hindsoght always 20/20. ;-P
\\btw - Trump has 4 "Show Trials" scheduled. Think he'll confess, repent, and accept the judgement of the Dem's Kangaroo Court?
:-)))))))
Why this question???
Do you still thinking that I am some kind of Derpy in disguise?
\\.I'm living it what will soon become a Stalinist "one party state". Democratic (as NewSpeak single word oxymoron).
Humble bragging?
I still unsure about that your new concept.
You have not a slightest idea about stalinism.
Me neither.
Only that few of your Ams who was in North Korea... but they not that accessible to share their experience...
\\Neither made the News much, here.
That's it.
And do you know -- why???
\\...and blood stains (which they forgot with the first attack on the hospital). It was too "impromptu" a performance. Random missile misfire. Not like that stupid chemical weapons fakery.
Well.
Today they report only some dozens victims. In similar "bombing of a hospital"
And all that 800 corpses story are totally forgotten.
Which is telling. ;-P
Pity that you didn't read "Futurological Congress" yet
\\Those that understand that people only get that full understanding after experiencing and Grokking the problem, and so, preclude it in a Promethean, rather than Epimethean, manner. They keep Pandoras jar closed.
/That's just fear.
Which hypocritically trying to pose as Wisdom.
Meh.
We wouldn't have "fire" w/o it. ;)
\\Do the words "dictatorship of the proletariat" convey Grokking? Or does 12 years in the gulag do it better?
/Neither.
Only historical hindsight. ;-)
Because hindsoght always 20/20. ;-P
Epimetheus rules the Adult mind.
\\btw - Trump has 4 "Show Trials" scheduled. Think he'll confess, repent, and accept the judgement of the Dem's Kangaroo Court?
/:-)))))))
Why this question???
Do you still thinking that I am some kind of Derpy in disguise?
No, it was a rhetorical question, as Trump (not Dervy) already Groks the Demn agenda. Epimetheus has repeated himself 4x. And Trump isn't "insane". Something else must be done.
\\.I'm living it what will soon become a Stalinist "one party state". Democratic (as NewSpeak single word oxymoron).
/Humble bragging?
I still unsure about that your new concept.
You have not a slightest idea about stalinism.
Me neither.
Only that few of your Ams who was in North Korea... but they not that accessible to share their experience...
You don't need to be a genius to recognize a one-party state. It's in every city in the USA.
\\Neither made the News much, here.
/That's it.
And do you know -- why???
No political "hay" to be made out of the victims, probably.
\\...and blood stains (which they forgot with the first attack on the hospital). It was too "impromptu" a performance. Random missile misfire. Not like that stupid chemical weapons fakery.
/Well.
Today they report only some dozens victims. In similar "bombing of a hospital"
And all that 800 corpses story are totally forgotten.
Which is telling. ;-P
Pity that you didn't read "Futurological Congress" yet
I just finished Drunken Angel. Maybe you could spare a few hints?
\\We wouldn't have "fire" w/o it. ;)
I'd better look at our cousins monkeys -- and watch how they would acqure that fire.
To have more prospects into how it was with us.
Do you know about
Washoe (chimpanzee)
https://en.wikipedia.org › wiki
·
... chimpanzees, seeming shocked to learn that she was not the only chimpanzee. ... ISBN 978-0-8153-1281-9 . ^ Herbert Terrace (December 4, 1980). "More on Monkey ...
\\Epimetheus rules the Adult mind.
Another sci-fi reminiscence.
This time about a planet... where only children are intelligent, in our human sense.
When they became adults, they are like insects... with very sophisticated instincts.
\\No, it was a rhetorical question, as Trump (not Dervy) already Groks the Demn agenda. Epimetheus has repeated himself 4x. And Trump isn't "insane". Something else must be done.
Well. You know what DEMN screaming about... him turning Hitler.
Even though there are bunch of way MORE capable to pose as one.
But no... they want to scream "Hitler, Hitler"... yawn.
Really, you are country "Turn it ALL to Eleven". :-)
As some other Ams have explained to me -- see, that is thing I would nit be able to come up with myself.
\\You don't need to be a genius to recognize a one-party state. It's in every city in the USA.
There can be ONLY ONE... hierarchy of control.
That is rule of this Universe -- wanna do something with it?
\\No political "hay" to be made out of the victims, probably.
And this too.
But that is only more recent development of it.
Before... that was not a problem at all.
\\I just finished Drunken Angel. Maybe you could spare a few hints?
I have pointed to some good reviews in English.
But, basicly that is holistic thing.
Like that paintings you giving links to me.
It can be summarized, yes. But it'll miss this or that point.
Like this Drunken Angel -- what part of it can be omitted?
Realities of after war Japan? Yakudza culture? Unusually meddling doctor-drunkard in his hopeless fight against TB?
Change or omit that circumstances of time and place -- and story will be different.
Well, for at least, champanse that can talk -- isn't it interesting topic?
Well. Also.
I made one sneaky remark there, in pSaws nest.
One dumb ass remembered: "No wonder back in 2007 George Carlin said, "This country is finished".
"
And I reminded... that that was BEFORE Zero-bama's inception.
And of course... it was not disclosed. :-)))))))
Cowardicity -- is the second name of DEMNS. :-)))))))
\\We wouldn't have "fire" w/o it. ;)
/I'd better look at our cousins monkeys -- and watch how they would acqure that fire.
To have more prospects into how it was with us.
Do you know about:
Washoe (chimpanzee)
https://en.wikipedia.org › wiki
·
... chimpanzees, seeming shocked to learn that she was not the only chimpanzee. ... ISBN 978-0-8153-1281-9 . ^ Herbert Terrace (December 4, 1980). "More on Monkey ...
That chimps are capable of mimesis, I have little doubt. Most animals are.
\\Epimetheus rules the Adult mind.
/Another sci-fi reminiscence.
This time about a planet... where only children are intelligent, in our human sense.
When they became adults, they are like insects... with very sophisticated instincts.
Plato had a story like that in "Statesman". Everything in the Age of Kronos was the reverse of that of the Age of Zeus. Life lived "backwards". Men rose from the Earth as old men, and grew younger...
\\No, it was a rhetorical question, as Trump (not Dervy) already Groks the Demn agenda. Epimetheus has repeated himself 4x. And Trump isn't "insane". Something else must be done.
/Well. You know what DEMN screaming about... him turning Hitler.
Even though there are bunch of way MORE capable to pose as one.
But no... they want to scream "Hitler, Hitler"... yawn.
Really, you are country "Turn it ALL to Eleven". :-)
As some other Ams have explained to me -- see, that is thing I would nit be able to come up with myself.
Nietzsche, "Beyond Good and Evil" (146) "Whoever fights monsters should see to it that in the process he does not become a monster. And when you look long into an abyss, the abyss also looks into you." :P
\\You don't need to be a genius to recognize a one-party state. It's in every city in the USA.
/There can be ONLY ONE... hierarchy of control.
That is rule of this Universe -- wanna do something with it?
Sparta had 2 kings. Rome, 2 consuls. America, 2 parties. All with 1 government, and 2 SuperEgos. DIVIDED Power. Exercised individually at separate times... alternating. Only when it's the Republicans turn, the minions no longer listen to them and keep acting as if Democrats were in charge. That is what happened under Trump.
\\No political "hay" to be made out of the victims, probably.
/And this too.
But that is only more recent development of it.
Before... that was not a problem at all.
Most news is either meant for Domestic action, or to justify more money being spent.
\\I just finished Drunken Angel. Maybe you could spare a few hints?
/I have pointed to some good reviews in English.
But, basicly that is holistic thing.
Like that paintings you giving links to me.
It can be summarized, yes. But it'll miss this or that point.
Like this Drunken Angel -- what part of it can be omitted?
Realities of after war Japan? Yakudza culture? Unusually meddling doctor-drunkard in his hopeless fight against TB?
Change or omit that circumstances of time and place -- and story will be different.
Yes a "frame" for the picture that gives it a more definite meaning. Like did Yakuza replace Samurai, and how did "foreign influence" (America) aid in said replacement. After all, we're no angels. ;)
\Well, for at least, champanse that can talk -- isn't it interesting topic?
/Well. Also.
I made one sneaky remark there, in pSaws nest.
One dumb ass remembered: "No wonder back in 2007 George Carlin said, "This country is finished".
"
And I reminded... that that was BEFORE Zero-bama's inception.
And of course... it was not disclosed. :-)))))))
Cowardicity -- is the second name of DEMNS. :-)))))))
They like to play "Gag the chimp". ;) It's what happens when the powerless gain a little power (over display of comments). Their SuperEgo flexes.
\\That chimps are capable of mimesis, I have little doubt. Most animals are.
Actual talking too? ;-)
\\Plato had a story like that in "Statesman". Everything in the Age of Kronos was the reverse of that of the Age of Zeus. Life lived "backwards". Men rose from the Earth as old men, and grew younger...
And you said you do not like sci-fi...
\\Only when it's the Republicans turn, the minions no longer listen to them and keep acting as if Democrats were in charge.
His own fault... for trying to sit behind the wheel... without training/learnign how to drive.
And I am not sure that he learned anything... in passing almost decade.
But well, I'm glad that I am foreigner... and that is NMP.
\\Most news is either meant for Domestic action, or to justify more money being spent.
Or just to entertain... ;-)
\\Like did Yakuza replace Samurai, and how did "foreign influence" (America) aid in said replacement. After all, we're no angels. ;)
You think there was no criminals under samurais???
And their culture is try to mimic ideas of bushido... on their profane level.
And... you too much overemphatising your influence.
Looks like they have mich bigger influence on you... then vice versa. ;-)
\\They like to play "Gag the chimp". ;) It's what happens when the powerless gain a little power (over display
As for me... that is just a manifestation of famale sub-culture.
Didn't it happen to you in your life, when famale couterpart saying: "I do not want to talk about it" with a face like that is royal rescript you must follow without any whining... and you do? ;-)
Actual talking too? ;-)
Ever have an Amazon? Or a Guacamaya (Macaw). I did. Do all robins sound the same, sing the same songs? Ever hear of Tereus, Procne, and Philomela? Bird language?
We would need a complete re-braining to understand them.
RW Emerson, "On the Conduct of Life (Beauty)"
We should go to the ornithologist with a new feeling, if he could teach us what the social birds say, when they sit in the autumn council, talking together in the trees. The want of sympathy makes his record a dull dictionary. His result is a dead bird. The bird is not in its ounces and inches, but in its relations to Nature; and the skin or skeleton you show me, is no more a heron, than a heap of ashes or a bottle of gases into which his body has been reduced, is Dante or Washington. The naturalist is led from the road by the whole distance of his fancied advance. The boy had juster views when he gazed at the shells on the beach, or the flowers in the meadow, unable to call them by their names, than the man in the pride of his nomenclature. Astrology interested us, for it tied man to the system. Instead of an isolated beggar, the farthest star felt him, and he felt the star. However rash and however falsified by pretenders and traders in it, the hint was true and divine, the soul's avowal of its large relations, and, that climate, century, remote natures, as well as near, are part of its biography. Chemistry takes to pieces, but it does not construct. Alchemy which sought to transmute one element into another, to prolong life, to arm with power, — that was in the right direction. All our science lacks a human side. The tenant is more than the house. Bugs and stamens and spores, on which we lavish so many years, are not finalities, and man, when his powers unfold in order, will take Nature along with him, and emit light into all her recesses. The human heart concerns us more than the poring into microscopes, and is larger than can be measured by the pompous figures of the astronomer.
Birds are 3D creature. We're much like the 2D catepillar who's brain turns to goo during metamorphosis, so that it can cope with a butterfly's 3D life.
...and yes, it is a female culture. The male culture, is Lacanian. Laconic. Few words. Acta non verba. "Alexander never did what he said, and Caesar never said what he did" (Italian proverb).
Our brains solve problems of our physical space. It forms the basis of our rationality. But other spaces have other problems requiring different intelligences. Like "metabolic" space. Neuroplastic forms follow the functions created by the problems they must adapt to, and overcome.
What problems must we adapt to to overcome. Time. Space. Space-time. Given the expansion of our Universe thus far, the time, distance and energy requirements seem dominant.
The electro-magnetic currents in our Universe. :P
Plasma... the "goo" in a catepillars brain. ;)
\\Birds are 3D creature. We're much like the 2D catepillar who's brain turns to goo during metamorphosis, so that it can cope with a butterfly's 3D life.
Yap.
Lem have told about it too...
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