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And by a prudent flight and cunning save A life which valour could not, from the grave. A better buckler I can soon regain, But who can get another life again? Archilochus

Sunday, April 20, 2025

The Wave's not Real...

...and other modelling and mathematical theoretical "artifacts".

57 comments:

zwaremetalen-239 said...

Yes, good video.

Numerous students don’t know the Schrodinger ‘wave’ isn’t an actual wave°° even though QM states quite clearly that Psi isn’t even an observable: it’s a function (somewhat ‘wavy’ in appearance, often) that contains all the information about the system. This information is extracted from the function by applying specific operators to it (e.g. the ‘momentum operator’)

A very important operator is the ‘square of the modulus’ (of Psi) operator of Max Born. This is basically the probability density, in function of the position vector.

For a fast electron (e.g.) Psi squared is very wave-like and definitely observable. It’s these ‘probability waves’ that give rise to interference (diffraction) patterns in electron diffraction experiments and what prompted that wretched phrase “particle wave duality”. Like ‘ordinary’ waves (e.g. light) ‘probability waves’ are eminently additive and subtractable, leading to areas of enhances and reduced paricle probability: light and darker bands ensueing.

Schrodinger and de Broglie were almost certainly convinced there were such things as “matter waves”, a wrong assumtion that helped QM considerably on the right way… The history of science is full of instances like that.

°° Folklore has it that re. this ‘wave’ a famous physicist once quipped: ‘Wave? Nothing oscillates there!’ Even a cursory inspection shows the S. function cannot be an actual wave: its unit of measurement is the inverse square root of the meter! And many e.g. (atomic) wave functions are complex valued: imaginary numbers!

-FJ the Dangerous and Extreme MAGA Jew said...

This is just so confusing. I suppose its' much like philosophy, you need to work through the concepts as they were chronologically developed and applied throughout the history of physics (or in my case, philosophy) in a Foucaultian "archeology of knowledge".

zwaremetalen-239 said...

How QM eventually came to rule the day is far more chaotic than most students may imagine. Multiple 'injections' at different times, interpretational differences (persisting to this day) etc. make for uneasy reading of its history. Some of its contributors weren't even all that keen on the idea of QM, at least initially, see Einstein and Heisenberg.

Anonymous said...

QM rules? Really? ;-P

It doesn't look like that. At all.

It just took some space -- where there NO other explanation possible. And became arcana knowlage.

In all other places, especially in practical applications -- Newton still rule.

Anonymous said...

//Schrodinger and de Broglie were almost certainly convinced there were such things as “matter waves”,

And what's the difference between "it really exist" and "we have a formula that allows us to calculate it"? ;-)

Like.
There is no phlogistone...BUT, we still calculate how warms " flows" throught matter.

So? What's the difference?

"What's up, doc?" © {in Buggs Bunny voice }

-FJ the Dangerous and Extreme MAGA Jew said...

...and in the "Physics/Quantum" space...Newton is arcana.

Anonymous said...

There is NO other space.

ONLY quantum one. ;-p

Even MORE then that -- purely mechanical world of Newton -- not feasible.

-FJ the Dangerous and Extreme MAGA Jew said...

No, there's an Avant-Guarde (quantum) and Kitsch (mechanical) faction in the Sciences, much as there once was in Art (It's ALL kitsch now, in Art anyways). Unfortunately, Physics has become "academic", which proved the ruin of avant-garde Art. The sciences need alchemists, not university professors, if the culture is to advance, once again. Physics has become "stagnant". ;P

-FJ the Dangerous and Extreme MAGA Jew said...

Quantum physics has merely become a Major Arcana. ;0

-FJ the Dangerous and Extreme MAGA Jew said...

SO give everyone a FabLab... and let the alchemy begin!

Anonymous said...

//The sciences need alchemists, not university professors, if the culture is to advance, once again. Physics has become "stagnant". ;P

Not technologists? ;-)

Well. Yeah. Who need that techy gramps. :-())

-FJ the Dangerous and Extreme MAGA Jew said...

What would a technologist do with a FabLab except build some Ovo-fish to swim in his fishtank. I say, let him get on with it!

Anonymous said...

???

-FJ the Dangerous and Extreme MAGA Jew said...

FabLab your Ovo/ Fish.

Anonymous said...

There's no suitable tools there.
Sigh.
That tools need to be invented anew.
Yawn.

-FJ the Dangerous and Extreme MAGA Jew said...

Have you Identified any?

-FJ the Dangerous and Extreme MAGA Jew said...

...conceptually?

Anonymous said...

But... I already explained it to you -- all. What kind of tools would be needed. For a tech based on Evolution itself.
Yawn.

-FJ the Dangerous and Extreme MAGA Jew said...

Like predators and prey? Competition for survival? Diseases?

Anonymous said...

???

-FJ the Dangerous and Extreme MAGA Jew said...

Tests for evolutionary "fitness".

-FJ the Dangerous and Extreme MAGA Jew said...

...to "weed out" incompetence.

-FJ the Dangerous and Extreme MAGA Jew said...

...and bad "designs"

-FJ the Dangerous and Extreme MAGA Jew said...

:P

Anonymous said...

Yap.

That's the main question.

And golden core of my approach.

zwaremetalen-239 said...

Like.
There is no phlogistone...BUT, we still calculate how warms " flows" throught matter.


You really haven't got the foggiest idea, do you?

Do you even know what phlogiston theory really was? And how it was shown to be false?

-FJ the Dangerous and Extreme MAGA Jew said...

I think he may be speaking of Caloric Theory, but I'll let Q speak for himself.

-FJ the Dangerous and Extreme MAGA Jew said...

...the epistemes and paradigms of the ages. Reality tends to render all historically prevailing theories inadequate over time. Godel... ?

Anonymous said...

Ah, sorry, that was long-long ago, from some book physics for children.

And, English not my native, so I found correct word (caloric) only now.

Sorry about.

But still, my argument stands. While you, fell to ad hominem right away.
Is that ONLY modality of sentient discussion you capable to support?

Anonymous said...

//Godel... ?

Again.

It's incorrect to use Godel's discovery. That was about purely formal systems ONLY. Out of it designated scope of use (yet one example if non-understanding)

-FJ the Dangerous and Extreme MAGA Jew said...

Yes... why "theory" (formal systems) never ultimately reach into an a consistently adequate formulation of "reality".

-FJ the Dangerous and Extreme MAGA Jew said...

An argument for "experimental" physics over "theoretical" physics, although the two are the Yin and Yang of Science.

Anonymous said...

Answer can be simple and uninteresting -- our formal theories just NOT ENOUGH complex for that.

Another word -- we, not smart enough. ;P

But... you, do not want to became smarter. And demand it explained to you in layman terms and ASAP. (yet one example of non-understranding)

-FJ the Dangerous and Extreme MAGA Jew said...

Yes, the Spartans were believed by other Greek tribes to be very profound/ Laconic. But then one could say that about cows, too.

Language was never meant to convey "information". It was meant (before the Pauline Inversion), as for cows, to enunciate my presence and glorify myself.

You may now wish to formulate a paean to me...

-FJ the Dangerous and Extreme MAGA Jew said...

...or point me to another one of your "Spartan" informational droppings.

-FJ the Dangerous and Extreme MAGA Jew said...

So it in your primary tongue. Google will translate it for me.

Anonymous said...

:-))))))))))))))))))0

-FJ the Dangerous and Extreme MAGA Jew said...

Now go print me an Ovo "molecule"... ;p

Anonymous said...

It... do not work like that.

Go to Drexler. HE might be your ideal. Yawn.

He proposed his nano-tech in 80th. And still unable to deliver.

But... that is not a problem, but more like sweet-sweet feature, for you -- Progress WITHOUT progress. Yawn.

SOOOAW Lindy!

;-P

-FJ the Dangerous and Extreme MAGA Jew said...

Nope. Capitalism and Control.

Anonymous said...

???

You like to criticize my views/ideas... but what is your ideas/views, I still dunno???

What Capitalism? American? European? China version?

Control??? Control of what? How? Wouldn't it be easier to control... pretty much anything, when you SMARTER, and have superior techs?

-FJ the Dangerous and Extreme MAGA Jew said...

It's "universal"... the commodification of land, labour, capital, and now also, information.

"Smartness" is a commodity to be bought or sold by those with a storehouse of commodified capital (ala billionaires). Step out of line and like Tesla, you will be crushed... no matter how 'smart' you are... no matter how much better you "tech" is. Tesla was giving away his energy. He wasn't "controlling" it.

-FJ the Dangerous and Extreme MAGA Jew said...

Just be happy that they'll pay you a "surplus salary" to steal/ use your 'smartness' for their profit.

-FJ the Dangerous and Extreme MAGA Jew said...

It's all about controlling access to land, capital, labour, and information. And you're not in the "control club". Why do you think Putin's so angry?

-FJ the Dangerous and Extreme MAGA Jew said...

His "credit card " read "insufficient funds".

-FJ the Dangerous and Extreme MAGA Jew said...

His "energy stores" were black, NOT green. They were meant to stay in the ground to suit the "luxury values" club members aesthetics.

-FJ the Dangerous and Extreme MAGA Jew said...

ESG - Environmental (aesthetic)... Sustainability (of control/aesthetic)... Governance (direct control).

That's the club.

-FJ the Dangerous and Extreme MAGA Jew said...

The WEF.

-FJ the Dangerous and Extreme MAGA Jew said...

The Davos men.

-FJ the Dangerous and Extreme MAGA Jew said...

Your a "Tesla". You want to give tech away, not control it by Davos men and sell it.

SO go suck up to a Davos Man, or get crushed like Tesla did.

THAT's Lindy.

-FJ the Dangerous and Extreme MAGA Jew said...

You're smart, even genius'. But you're a commodity (labour/ information) to be bought and sold.

-FJ the Dangerous and Extreme MAGA Jew said...

A Paean to Lindy

Hesiod, "Works and Days"

HYMN TO ZEUS
[1] Muses of Pieria who give glory through song, come hither, tell of Zeus your father and chant his praise. Through him mortal men are famed or unfamed, sung or unsung alike, as great Zeus wills. For easily he makes strong, and easily he brings the strong man low; easily he humbles the proud and raises the obscure, and easily he straightens the crooked and blasts the proud, -- Zeus who thunders aloft and has his dwelling most high. Attend thou with eye and ear, and make judgements straight with righteousness. And I, Perses, would tell of true things.

THE TWO STRIFES
[11] So, after all, there was not one kind of Strife alone, but all over the earth there are two. As for the one, a man would praise her when he came to understand her; but the other is blameworthy: and they are wholly different in nature. For one fosters evil war and battle, being cruel: her no man loves; but perforce, through the will of the deathless gods, men pay harsh Strife her honour due. But the other is the elder daughter of dark Night, and the son of Cronos who sits above and dwells in the aether, set her in the roots of the earth: and she is far kinder to men. She stirs up even the shiftless to toil; for a man grows eager to work when he considers his neighbour, a rich man who hastens to plough and plant and put his house in good order; and neighbour vies with is neighbour as he hurries after wealth. This Strife is wholesome for men. And potter is angry with potter, and craftsman with craftsman, and beggar is jealous of beggar, and minstrel of minstrel.

[25] Perses, lay up these things in your heart, and do not let that Strife who delights in mischief hold your heart back from work, while you peep and peer and listen to the wrangles of the court-house. Little concern has he with quarrels and courts who has not a year's victuals laid up betimes, even that which the earth bears, Demeter's grain. When you have got plenty of that, you can raise disputes and strive to get another's goods. But you shall have no second chance to deal so again: nay, let us settle our dispute here with true judgement divided our inheritance, but you seized the greater share and carried it off, greatly swelling the glory of our bribe-swallowing lords who love to judge such a cause as this. Fools! They know not how much more the half is than the whole, nor what great advantage there is in mallow and asphodel [poor man's fare].

-FJ the Dangerous and Extreme MAGA Jew said...

Got a years victuals laid up in store? Capital... commodified?

-FJ the Dangerous and Extreme MAGA Jew said...

;P

-FJ the Dangerous and Extreme MAGA Jew said...

:P

Anonymous said...

"If you hold a hammer in your hand, everything around (might be?) looks like a nail to you".

Yawn.

-FJ the Dangerous and Extreme MAGA Jew said...

Even the nails...