Byung-Chul Han, in treatises such as “The Burnout Society” and his latest, “The Crisis of Narration,” diagnoses the frenetic aimlessness of the digital age.“The power to change one’s life comes from a paragraph, a lone remark,” James Salter wrote in his 1975 novel, “Light Years.” An encounter with a single “slender” line of writing, as he put it, can send a reader spinning off on a new trajectory; her life becomes divided into a before and an after the moment of reading. For Kevin Maret, an undergraduate art student at the University of Idaho, that moment came while reading “In the Swarm: Digital Prospects,” a slim monograph by the philosopher Byung-Chul Han that was first published in English by M.I.T., in 2017. In May of 2023, while scrolling Instagram, Maret encountered a video gloss on Han’s work; Maret was intrigued enough that he borrowed “In the Swarm” from his university library. Han’s writing, polemical and aphoristic, spoke to Maret’s experience of growing up on social media, and crystallized for him the lack of control he felt regarding his relationship to the Internet. In a recent conversation, Maret pointed out a few of his favorite lines: “The occupants of the digital panopticon are not prisoners. Their element is illusory freedom. They feed the digital panopticon with information by exhibiting themselves and shining a light on every part of their lives.” He told me, of the book, “The first time I read it, I read it in two hours.”
Since then, Maret has kept “In the Swarm” out on library loan and carries it with him like a talisman. “I can put this in a jacket pocket if I walk down to the coffee shop or the field by my house,” he told me. He stocked up on other books by Han: “The Transparency Society,” “Saving Beauty,” and “The Agony of Eros,” which are all written in the same pamphletary format, somewhere between manifesto and essay, and mostly run under a hundred pages. Maret is part of a growing coterie of readers who have embraced Han as a kind of sage of the Internet era. Elizabeth Nakamura, a twentysomething art-gallery associate in San Francisco, had a similar conversion experience, during the early days of pandemic lockdown, after someone in a Discord chat suggested that she check out Han’s work. She downloaded “The Agony of Eros” from Libgen, a Web site that is known for pirated e-books. (She possesses Han’s books only in PDF form, like digital samizdat.) The monograph argues that the overexposure and self-aggrandizement encouraged by social media have killed the possibility of truly erotic experience, which requires an encounter with an other. “I’m like queening out reading this,” she told me, using Gen Z slang for effusive enjoyment—fangirling. “It’s a meme but not in the funny way—in the way that it’s sort of concise and easily disseminated. I can send this to my friends who aren’t as into reading to help them think about something,” she said. Like a Sartre for the age of screens, Han puts words to our prevailing condition of not-quite-hopeless digital despair.
Born in 1959 in South Korea, Han originally studied metallurgy in Seoul, to placate his parents, who wanted him to take up a practical discipline. When he was twenty-two, he moved to Germany; he pledged to continue his studies but switched to philosophy, with a focus on Martin Heidegger. In 1994, he got a Ph.D. from the University of Freiburg, and then began teaching phenomenology, aesthetics, and religion, eventually landing at Berlin University of the Arts. He has published steadily throughout the past two decades, but has shunned interviews and has rarely travelled outside of Germany. John Thompson, the director of Polity, an independent publisher in the United Kingdom that has put out fourteen of Han’s books since 2017, told me the demand for his work has grown largely by word of mouth. “There has been this grassroots reception of Byung-Chul Han that has driven the demand, and it’s not the conventional way of major review coverage,” he said. Thompson continued, “He’s like an engine. The ideas and the books are just flowing.”
Han’s breakout work was “The Burnout Society,” originally published in German, in 2010. Nearly a decade before the writer Anne Helen Petersen tackled “millennial burnout,” Han diagnosed what he called “the violence of positivity,” deriving from “overproduction, overachievement, and overcommunication.” We are so stimulated, chiefly by the Internet, that we paradoxically cannot feel or comprehend much of anything. One of the ironies of Han’s writing is that it travels easily through the very channels that he despairs of. By condensing his ideas into brief, unadorned sentences, Han flatters the reader into almost feeling as though she has thought the thoughts herself. “The Burnout Society” and Han’s other books now star in countless YouTube explainer videos and TikTok summaries. His ideas have particularly struck a chord with readers who deal in aesthetics—artists, curators, designers, and architects—even though Han has not quite been embraced by philosophy academe. (An essay in the Los Angeles Review of Books in 2017 cautiously labelled him “as good a candidate as any for philosopher of the moment.”) His work has been translated into more than a dozen languages. According to the Spanish newspaper El País, “The Burnout Society” has sold more than a hundred thousand copies across Latin America, Korea, Spain, and Italy. A museum director in Beijing told me, “The Chinese art world is obsessed with him.” Alberto Olmos, a well-known Spanish author and critic, described Han to me as a “wonderful DJ of philosophy,” spinning together references—Barthes, Baudrillard, Benjamin—in catchy new combinations. In 2023, in an interview with Dazed Korea, the K-pop star RM, from the band BTS, recommended “The Agony of Eros,” adding, “You might find yourself deeply frustrated because the book suggests that the love we are currently experiencing is not love.”
My own first encounter with Han was “Non-things,” which I found positioned prominently in the small-press section of an independent bookstore. I was drawn by its gnomic title and the postmodern collage on its cover: a photograph of skyscrapers seen from within a city, spliced with a photo of skyscrapers shot from above, turning the buildings into a geometric abstraction. In “Non-things,” Han argues that online we encounter a glut of information—i.e., non-things—that distracts us from having experiences with objects in the world: “The digital screen determines our experience of the world and shields us from reality.” The best way to read Han is similar to the best way of reading the Bible: flip through, find an evocative line, and proceed from there. Each sentence is a microcosm of the book, and each book is a microcosm of the œuvre, thus the reader need not delve too deep to get the point. “The smartphone is a mobile labour camp in which we voluntarily intern ourselves,” Han writes in “Non-things.” Spicy! It is a koan to meditate upon, and a description that immediately makes one hate oneself for staring at a screen. I kept reading because I felt like I had to, in case Han might be able to offer me some salvation.
Han’s latest book in English translation, “The Crisis of Narration,” was published in the U.S. earlier this month. (Like comic books, the volumes seem to roll out one extended, episodic narrative; all of the Polity editions have similar cover designs, forming a coherent visual brand.) The book is about the decline of “storytelling,” which in Han’s argument is an endangered mode of establishing meaning in an age dominated by the bullet points and edited clips of content that we consume online. The book builds upon the argument of “Non-things,” but, instead of lamenting a dearth of real-life objects, Han laments our ability to narrativize our “lived moments.” “For digital platforms, data are more valuable than narratives. They do not want narrative reflection.” Is this why my life as documented on Instagram doesn’t actually add up to a unified whole, despite all the time and labor I’ve invested into curating my account? Han’s concept of “information,” the opposite of narration, which requires a kind of non-data-driven capacity for imagination, has something in common with “content,” the catchall term that both describes and denatures twenty-first-century culture into so much undifferentiated mush. In “The Crisis of Narration,” Han writes, “In digital late modernity, we conceal the nakedness—the absence of meaning in our lives—by constantly posting, liking, and sharing. The noise of communication and information is supposed to ensure that life’s terrifying vacuity remains hidden.”
To that, the Internet-addled brain simply wants to respond: “Yas queen!!! Byung-Chul Han, run me over with a truck.” If you are a denizen of social media, to read Han is to feel both dragged and affirmed. His status as a kind of philosophy daddy to a younger generation is reinforced by the scant glimpses that readers get of his personal image. In photographs, he wears mainly shades of black, often with a broken-in but still elegant leather jacket and a thin scarf. His long hair is pulled back into a ponytail, and his skin glows like an influencer’s. His telegenic quality belies his isolation from the media ecosystem. He is not on social platforms; he told El País in a rare interview that he writes three sentences a day and spends most of his time caring for his plants and playing Bach and Schumann on the piano. His aura of offlineness—we craven online people might be tempted to call it a personal brand—seems to confirm that he has access to some wisdom that the rest of us lack.
Charles Pidgeon, a doctoral student in the University of Oxford’s English faculty, who studies literature about the Internet, described Han’s work as “kind of old-fashioned humanism: What are you taking from this? Something that should reorient your relationship to the world and to your own life.” But he added that Han’s digestible grand pronouncements don’t always hold up to close scrutiny. “There are a lot of things you can pick holes at,” Pidgeon told me. He pointed to “The Burnout Society” ’s argument that humanity has shifted from an “immunological society,” characterized by barriers, to a “neuronal society,” characterized by boundlessness and frictionless circulation. Of course, the covid pandemic signalled an extreme return to an immunologically organized world, which had not really gone away. “The kind of reductive clarity which is so important to how his writing functions is also part of the risk of it going very wrong,” Pidgeon said.
In “The Crisis of Narration” especially, Han runs the risk of speaking with too much curmudgeonly distance from his subject matter. He rightly observes “the present hype around narratives,” which might include the mania for “storytelling” in corporate marketing or the rampant popularity of ted talks. He argues that, though “stories” is a buzzword, we have lost a true, deeper capacity for narrative meaning-making. (Here he evokes the archetypal “fire around which humans gather to tell each other stories.”) He describes posting on social media as “pornographic self-presentation or self-promotion”—which is fair enough. There is little in his writing, however, to acknowledge that digital spaces can also produce meaningful experiences, an oversight that, at this point in the twenty-first century, seems almost quaint. We don’t read Han for a holistic orthodoxy; it’s hard to blame a sixty-something-year-old for not grasping TikTok’s paradoxical way of fostering both exploitative and emancipatory forms of expression. But he overlooks the way that social media enables self-narrativization, the construction and projection of a personal identity, with a freedom that was never possible in the top-down hierarchy of traditional media. For many people, the Internet is the new campfire.
One has to wonder what Han makes of the way that his own ideas have flourished in the Internet information economy, within the avalanche of non-things. When we read about the Internet, we so often crave an answer or a solution: Is a technology good or bad? How can we escape it? Han is not in the business of offering solutions or bullet-pointed life hacks, but online his writing can be readily turned into convenient, digestible lessons. (One TikTok caption: “Byung-Chul Han and self optimization #capitalism #marxism #therapy.”) Han’s books “critique excess digital consumption but are also compatible with it,” Pidgeon told me. They can be used as “another fashionable or modish set of thoughts to be pushed through S.E.O. and imbibed in little chunks by people,” he added. “That’s the real trap of it. You can never be outside of the system that you’re trying to talk about.” But Han’s ardent, almost brutalist style is also designed to speak for itself, and in that sense it resists digital culture’s way of forcing a person to stand in for his creative output. Part of Han’s revelation to readers is that they do not have to be a persona. If Han posted his own TikTok videos, most commenters would probably just ask what brand of leather jacket he was wearing. (Honestly, I want to know that, too.) Perhaps we should take his writing as an incitement to live our own offline lives instead. Until we put his ideas into practice, though, his writing offers an aspirational symbol to tote around, to flip through, to explain to our friends. As Maret, the University of Idaho student, put it, “The Han Hive is activated.”
.
And by a prudent flight and cunning save A life which valour could not, from the grave. A better buckler I can soon regain, But who can get another life again?
Archilochus
Thursday, April 18, 2024
From The New Yorker
Kyle Chayka, "The Internet’s New Favorite Philosopher"
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232 comments:
1 – 200 of 232 Newer› Newest»\\They feed the digital panopticon with information by exhibiting themselves and shining a light on every part of their lives.
And WHO made em so???
\\The politburo is merely a formalized "caucus" within the Party. Like the RNC or DNC. A standing "Committee".
I answered it. But you ignored it. I assume with "let's have each one own opinion".
But...
let's review its "genes" -- way how it was organized.
At first... it was underround, practicly criminal organization. With such a methods as armed robbery or political bombing.
WAT??? "caucus"???
When they gained power... yeah, they made "consultations" with "wide public".
But... that was staged.
And NO outsiders was allowed into tight group of "revolutioners".
Well... they was in a war time. To allow any "democracy".
And well... they declared "class war"... to continue to rule in such a war-time mode.
And.
Air Superiority? ;-P
Well... it superbly entertaining. For sure. ;-P
And WHO made em so???
The "Achievement Society". Entrepeneurs of the self... like you. They made THEMSELVES so.
Waaaaa????
Wind blowing, because trees shake its branches? %-)))
What are you selling, Q?
I??? Selling???
What prols can "sell"?
Apart from their "chains"??? ;-P
What EVERY prol sells... his soul.
Sorry for joking.
But I really dunno how to respond.
Ideas about "buying" and "selling"... seems like very intrinsic in your culture.
But...
No cultures are the same.
So...
I just cannot relate to it.
...for bread. Wasn't that one of Christ's temptations in the desert?
It's not just my culture. It's the "Capitalist Discourse" within which all 4 other discourses operate.
Really...
Let it, for me to think it through.
What and when in my life I was "selling"??? Hmmm.
Well, I was working as programmer. Means, like I was "selling" my time and strength.
But I... do not feel it that way -- I was doing just I would like to do -- like digging in some "symbolic systems" to put em into better use... for other people.
I... even cannot account -- when actual moment of "selling" have happened???
Nietzsche, "Genealogy of Morals" Essay II
8.
The feeling of "ought," of personal obligation (to take up again the train of our inquiry), has had, as we saw, its origin in the oldest and most original personal relationship that there is, the relationship between buyer and seller, creditor and ower: here it was that individual confronted individual, and that individual matched himself against individual. There has not yet been found a grade of civilisation so low, as not to manifest some trace of this relationship. Making prices, assessing values, thinking out equivalents, exchanging—all this preoccupied the primal thoughts of man to such an extent that in a certain sense[Pg 80] it constituted thinking itself: it was here that was trained the oldest form of sagacity, it was here in this sphere that we can perhaps trace the first commencement of man's pride, of his feeling of superiority over other animals. Perhaps our word "Mensch" (manas) still expresses just something of this self-pride: man denoted himself as the being who measures values, who values and measures, as the "assessing" animal par excellence. Sale and purchase, together with their psychological concomitants, are older than the origins of any form of social organisation and union: it is rather from the most rudimentary form of individual right that the budding consciousness of exchange, commerce, debt, right, obligation, compensation was first transferred to the rudest and most elementary of the social complexes (in their relation to similar complexes), the habit of comparing force with force, together with that of measuring, of calculating. His eye was now focussed to this perspective; and with that ponderous consistency characteristic of ancient thought, which, though set in motion with difficulty, yet proceeds inflexibly along the line on which it has started, man soon arrived at the great generalisation, "everything has its price, all can be paid for," the oldest and most naive moral canon of justice, the beginning of all "kindness," of all "equity," of all "goodwill," of all "objectivity" in the world. Justice in this initial phase is the goodwill among people of about equal power to come to terms with each other, to come to an understanding again by means of a settlement, and with regard to the less[Pg 81] powerful, to compel them to agree among themselves to a settlement.
Well...
there was such a case, in my life... where I was ACTUALLY sold some snippet(s) of my "ingenuity".
Like in ordinary market exchange -- I have something, and there is buyer, and there is hard price in cash...
But... I was not "selling" it that time(s) too...
it's more like that buyers -- spotted me... and then even try to show money into my hands... without me being eager about it...
\\What EVERY prol sells... his soul.
Heh... %-P
Maybe... I was bragging about being prol? ;-P
While being miserly aborigenic peasant. :-)))))
One... you need to photo-shut... to sole one's soul. ;-P
\\...for bread. Wasn't that one of Christ's temptations in the desert?
That one.
I mean "Christ's temptations in the desert" itself -- puzzles my logical self till not end.
If Christ was alone in that desert -- who was witness of it, to write about it? ;-)
Devil? ;-P
Means, Devil have written Bible???
\\It's not just my culture. It's the "Capitalist Discourse" within which all 4 other discourses operate.
Eeeeee????
Mark does not provide details, but in Matthew and Luke "the tempter" (Greek: ὁ πειράζων, ho peirazōn)[31] or "the devil" (Greek: ὁ διάβολος, ho diabolos) tempts Jesus to:
1)Make bread out of stones to relieve his own hunger
2)Jump from a pinnacle and rely on angels to break his fall. The narratives of both Luke and Matthew have Satan quote Psalm 91:11–12 to indicate that God had promised this assistance.
3)Worship the tempter in return for all the kingdoms of the world.
\\There has not yet been found a grade of civilisation so low, as not to manifest some trace of this relationship.
Well... I know about it. Theoreticly.
But... during actual interviews -- I accustomed to say that more then payment -- interesting tasks and good inner atmosphere of a team is much more important... to me.
(shy)
Capitalist Discourse
The capitalist discourse follows a different logic, in that it takes desire as if it was a frustrated demand. It translates desire into solutions, meaning desire is not seen as the support of subjectivity, but merely seen as a demand that should be gratified. Why all the misery, the capitalistic logic would ask: caviar or salmon can simply be bought, right? In this way, what the discourse of the capitalist fills is the space for questions pertaining to love and desire: Lacan states “Any order, any discourse that resembles capitalism leaves aside what we will simply call the things of love, my friends. You see, that's just nothing” (Lacan, 1971–1972, 6 January 1972 lecture, my translation). Within this discourse subjective division is not seen as a manifestation of subjective truth along the lines of the unconscious, but as a state of permanent crisis the subject needs to get rid of (Pavón-Cuéllar, 2009).
But... during actual interviews -- I accustomed to say that more then payment -- interesting tasks and good inner atmosphere of a team is much more important... to me.
"What a TEAM player! You'll CERTAINLY find those here.
You just won't get paid as much!"
IT'S ALL ABOUT THE BENJAMINS!
""The word "devil" (diabolos) also means "accuser" and is just a Greek translation of satan.""
\\1)Make bread out of stones to relieve his own hunger
2)Jump from a pinnacle and rely on angels to break his fall. The narratives of both Luke and Matthew have Satan quote Psalm 91:11–12 to indicate that God had promised this assistance.
3)Worship the tempter in return for all the kingdoms of the world.
Heh???
But who EXACTLy and INITIALLY... SAW it, with own eyes... to report then?
Some "believe me, I'm a witness"? ;-P
PS See... how deep is that rabbit's hole... you think are so new and even newly born. ;-P
Like...
Now you can see, that silly Derpy's insistance that... someone saying something is THE SAME as something BEING something. ;-P
Have as deep roots... as Christian catechism. ;-P
\\"What a TEAM player! You'll CERTAINLY find those here.
\\You just won't get paid as much!"
Then... it means, that you cannot afford me. ;-P
It's a story. A parable. A "portrait of Daedalus" with "nails" so it won't fly away. A Point de Capiton.
The REASONS you should listen to your (F)father, source of Laws.
\\Lacan states “Any order, any discourse that resembles capitalism leaves aside what we will simply call the things of love, my friends. You see, that's just nothing” (Lacan, 1971–1972, 6 January 1972 lecture, my translation)
Well... why people with big money... are so fond of servants and being served, then?
Even with loyalty and veneration and even love showed? ;-P
If that is so not important?
Maybe that Lacan... are just another high-brow babbler... who do not have skin in the game? ;-P
The Bible was written by men, like the koran and torah. No SKY G_D wrote it and dropped it one Earth. It's all fiction (but mostly TRUE fiction).
\\It's a story. A parable. A "portrait of Daedalus" with "nails" so it won't fly away. A Point de Capiton.
Hah???
Means???
That's just a story? ;-P
And there is No Father? And No Son? And No Holy Spirit(s?)???
OH MY GAWD!!!
You ruined my World! How dare you...
kidding. ;-P Of course.
I LOVE prostitutes the most. ;)
\\ (but mostly TRUE fiction).
As Logic says -- there is NO lie possible -- which would not give some hints of a Truth. ;-)
One just need to account all available info... and make thoroughly logical inference.
\\I LOVE prostitutes the most. ;)
"Software like sex -- it's better when it's free"(tm) ;-P
BTW. All software I use is free... or even open source. ;-)
The female mate selection strategy? Hypergamy, of course.
Only Fans THOTs, anyone?
Meh.
Evolution doesn't care about individuals... or even individual scenarios/methods.
It bets on all available... spots?
Heh. https://www.azovcontrafake.com/ ;-P
Heh.
I caught that understanding -- what it reminds me.
Twelfth night. ;-P
That "fierce" duel. :-)))))))))))))))))))))00
Hints for your Azov counter-propaganda friends. Ideology (NAZI) is but cone component of RICE (Reward/Ideology/Coercion/Ego) from the CIA Motivation/ Manipulation Toolkit.
I merely point this out because it's the economic "Reward" element that largely explains the difference in economic allegiances between East and West Ukraine. Those in the East Ukraine have closer ties to Russia. Those in the West Ukraine, Poland. And now, those in the West Ukraine use COERCION upon those in the East to break those ties. And Coercion is very detrimental to establishment of Trust. Especially when it includes the use of force.
And THAT is what Azov members were doing in the Donbass in 2014+. It's only NAZI-like in similar behaviour and tactics, not necessarily "Ideology".
\\ Ideology (NAZI) is but cone component of RICE (Reward/Ideology/Coercion/Ego) from the CIA Motivation/ Manipulation Toolkit.
Whatever.
"Anything goes"... as far as it working.
Yawn.
Well, "nazi" is lebeling that misleading (national-SOCAILISM, remember?) and stigmatizing.
Your judges (in Nuremberg, remember?) was more wise... then your public and propaganda. Well, naturally.
"Nazis" was judged for THIER DEEDS -- per person base to boot.
\\ Those in the East Ukraine have closer ties to Russia.
Yeah. They ARE under occupation. For more then TEN years already.
Ties of slave... are of most closest type. And they are... yes, economical. ;-P
Well, you dunno, you have no experience being oppressed. Yawn.
Well, you can ask your neighbour blakks... especially from some gettos.
Or... some newcomers. Runaway from some "shitholes".
Well, anyway, that'll be second-hand experience. Yawn.
\\Those in the West Ukraine, Poland.
Yeah.
Polish Propaganda.
Yawn.
\\ And now, those in the West Ukraine use COERCION upon those in the East to break those ties. And Coercion is very detrimental to establishment of Trust. Especially when it includes the use of force.
Yeah???
It's like Russian Bombing of Ukrainian cities. EQUALLY, on the East and on the West... do not exist??????????
Go figure.
\\And THAT is what Azov members were doing in the Donbass in 2014+.
Do you remember... what amount of people is in BATTALION???
And what length... and what span of territory... they need to brush with that miserly amount???
Would you check your assumptions for a physical feasibility? For at least??? ;-P
\\It's only NAZI-like in similar behaviour and tactics, not necessarily "Ideology".
And???
How much? And what exactly???
You know about that "behavior and tactics"???
I... for example... know, that while there was some other volunteers squad... that tried to behave roughly. To play "we are THE power here" -- the way their cross-frontline "independent republic" squads did (yeah... it's interesting, why you ignore that "independent republic" "nazis" DEEDS???? Because Russian Propaganda DID NOT tell you... about em? ;-P) -- it was DISARMED and ELIMINATED in a jiffy.
So.
Just like Derpy.
While claiming "they not all, not exactly are nazis"... just confirming liliPut's Propaganda -- "even if there is just s FEW, but that that they EXIST... confirms GOVERNMENT being Nazi TOO", is it what you tried to say... with your this logic? ;-)
You welcome.
Be my guest.
But... somehow, you hesitate to make it explicitly -- why? ;-P
How do you explain the VOTING patterns then? Kremlin propaganda?
The point is, this is a Ukrainian CIVIL WAR. And both sides sought, and succeeded, in obtaining foreign entanglements. May the best side win (and it doesn't look like it will be yours).
Explicit enough?
btw - A battalion is a sub-unit of a regiment, which is a subunit of an army. And not all units need to get their hands dirty.
ps- Not every unit in the Wehrmacht employed Totenkapf tactics. Hence... Azov.
Context
Azov are just men convinced that to achieve "the good" requires a little "extra effort". And that "extra effort" convinced the Russians to cross the border. Action - Reaction. It's "physics".
btw - The US will soon, like Cornwallis, make its' ignominious exit.
I bear no ill will towards Ukraine. My ill will is directed soly at the idiots in Washington that first egged on and then dragged us in to this unnecessary conflict.
On the Ukrainian Civil War
To convince me, you'd need to explain this.
\\How do you explain the VOTING patterns then? Kremlin propaganda?
Ehm???
Why it need to be commented on?
Have you seen your own USA patterns?
There is natural for a country to have such type of patterns, I presume.
\\The point is, this is a Ukrainian CIVIL WAR.
Not more a "war" than your own USA "civil war". ;-P
\\And both sides sought, and succeeded, in obtaining foreign entanglements.
BS.
Neither was.
Yanukovich which was freaking representative of that East... was trying to became EU and NATO member... well, until it was bribed, that simpleton, to sway it opposite way. :-)))
Just the same as EVERY previous leader of Ukraine.
Tried to play that "golden card".
Since... since forever!
PS I have said it, but I took it for a joke, isn't it?
That you just know not history of Ukraine?
Even in "Ukraine history in 10 minutes" from Youtube.
Yes?
err, ...you took it for a joke...
\\Explicit enough?
Expicit. Yes.
But... it not based on ANY factual base.
Be it Ukrainian... or European history. Some politics and "national interests" of USA.
So... as they call it -- "invisible pink unicorn"(or that was "pink elephant"? sorry, I am not too proficient in your side of the Globe idioms)... and you trying to blame me for not answering what color of his mane is. ;-P
THAT is how it look... for now.
\\btw - A battalion is a sub-unit of a regiment, which is a subunit of an army. And not all units need to get their hands dirty.
See...
so it's still sublime for "they ALL nazis". ;-P
While... still based on anything else then your USA sticky leveling...
and liliPut's Propaganda exaggerately putting in use that lebeling. ;-P
Well... why it BAD to be a "nazi", anyway? ;-P
Apart from lame substitution of precisely historically definied perpetrators of mass-killings... and anybody else, who was (self?)assigned... or just sticked with such labeling???
Well... I perfectly understand why empires... or just sufficiently big countries -- could dislike "nationalism". ;-P
But... is this that point we discussing here?
\\ps- Not every unit in the Wehrmacht employed Totenkapf tactics. Hence... Azov.
So... still same sublime "they ALL nazis".
And... still TOTAL lack of any facts... apart from lame delusions/allusions. And your historical propaganda that "nazis are BAD"... while eliminating from open view... that nazis was national-SOCIALISTS. ;-P
\\Azov are just men convinced that to achieve "the good" requires a little "extra effort". And that "extra effort" convinced the Russians to cross the border. Action - Reaction. It's "physics".
BS.
Have we discussed OSCE reports???
That was ALL in accordance with Glaivits-like plan -- make shooting on the front-lines, declare "they doing it", start a war... ehm, "special military operation"(by the likes of USA doing... whenever it wants), snatch easy Victory.
But... with that last point, it worked out not that well.
Because of overly exaggerated OWN strength... and underestimating strength of an opponent.
That's why MEDDLING of USA was needed... to stall counter-offensive success. To pacify "Hitler of nowadays".
Yawn.
\\btw - The US will soon, like Cornwallis, make its' ignominious exit.
Whatever.
"Better to lose with smart... than find with a stupid". ;-P
\\I bear no ill will towards Ukraine. My ill will is directed soly at the idiots in Washington that first egged on and then dragged us in to this unnecessary conflict.
Well...
Even if it'll be opposite. It would nit be a problem with me.
If only you keep being honest with me... and with yourself.
Self-delusioned fools... are in such abundance, that it is not interesting, in slightest.
\\On the Ukrainian Civil War
Well... for at least to gave your "sources".
Well...
Ukrainian Civil War may refer to:
2014 Ukrainian Civil War
Ukrainian War of Independence (1917–21)
Ukrainian–Soviet War (1917–21)
Anti-Hetman Uprising (1918)
Hah... how that other 19XX refs -- STILL do not ring that bell to you -- that that is just SECOND war for Independence.
Well... it is so, because you know NO history of Ukraine...
Yawn.
Well... by that OTHER link.
JUST IN THE BEGINNING.
""The war in Donbas,[c] or Donbas war, was a phase of the Russo-Ukrainian War in the Donbas region of Ukraine. The war began 12 April 2014, when a fifty-man commando unit headed by Russian citizen Igor Girkin..."" <<---- HERE!
Still doesn't ring a bell???
That that is just ANOTHER "special operation"...
Well... yeah.
Because you dunno history.
Yawn.
\\To convince me, you'd need to explain this.
Right after you'd explain HOW you still able to be ONE country... whileyou SO divided. ;-P
Red states and blue states
Wikipedia
https://en.wikipedia.org › R...
Starting with the 2000 United States presidential election, the terms "red state" and "blue state" have referred to U.S. states whose voters vote ...
Maybe some Girkin need to enter your turf too?
To "free" Dems from unholy rule of Reps...
or vice versa -- to liberate oppressed Reps from some nasty Dems?
Or... that need to be some brave Mexicans. ;-P
To free their brethren. ;-)
\\Azov members were doing in the Donbass in 2014+. It's only NAZI-like in similar behaviour and tactics, not necessarily "Ideology".
BTW.
Nazis was killing people in concentration camps and burning their corpses in furnaces.
WAS that "nasty-nasty nazi-like Azov"... doing something, ANYTHING like that???
To deserve being compared. To be called "NAZI-like", "similar in behavior and tactics"???
Have it ANY substance???
Hmmmm...
Especially.
As that is EXACTLY Russians doing it -- killing people, putting em in concentration camps, torturing, in try to destroy their identity and whole genetic pool... of Ukrainian "nazis".
But...
You seems like thinking that that is Ou'Key???
Because that need to be done? To deal that FINAL blow... to such an *apparent* NAZIs. ;-P
From that link...
"The language
Ukrainian is the official language, spoken by 70% of the country’s population. Russian is also spoken widely and is the mother tongue of many Ukrainians,"
BS.
Russian -- is spoken by EVERYONE.
As it was language of EMPIRE of which Ukraine was just a colony.
SAME... as English is what EVERY USAian speak.
But... does it mean that USA need to be divided and turned back into colony(ies) of Great Britain? ;-P
\\where ethnic Russians are in the majority.
Yeah.
Because of colonial politics of Empire. First called Russian Empire. Then Soviet Union.
And now it want to resurface as RFia.
""Violent protests broke out in the Crimean capital of Simferopol on February 27, against the new order set in motion a week earlier amid mass demonstrations in the country capital of Kiev.""
BS.
And even DIRECT lie.
May I see FACTUAL evidences of that "violent protests"?
And especially -- with pointing DIRECT sources of such "evidances" -- isn't they all, from RFia? ;-)
\\Crimea is a bastion of support for ousted President Yanukovych
UTTER BS.
That can be only explained by the moment of that article was concockted.
Because Yanukovych was in Crimea for a very SHORT time -- to enter Russian Military Base there... just to be extracted safely further to the RFia territory.
WHAT "bastion of support"???
By that time, even his CLOSEST minions parted him... because he BETRAYED them first. Was thinking ONLY about how to haul all that money he stole from Ukrainians.
\\and is also home to Russia's Black Sea naval fleet, based at Sevastopol.
Yeah.
Doesn't ring a bell??? Still???
\\2001 Ukraine Census
Maybe... you should excavated SOURCE? ;-P
According to the All-Ukrainian Population Census '2001 data, the number of men totaled 22.441 thousand people, or 46.3%, that of women - 26.016 thousand people, or 53.7%.
General results of the census
Всеукраїнський перепис населення 2001:
http://2001.ukrcensus.gov.ua › Main page › Results
\\Linguistic composition of population
The language structure of Ukraine, according to the All-Ukrainian Census data, is various. The part of those whose mother tongue is Ukrainian totals 67.5% of the population of Ukraine, this is by 2.8 percentage points more than in 1989. The percentage of those whose mother tongue is Russian totals 29.6% of the population. Comparatively with the data of previous census this index has decreased by 3.2 percentage points. The part of other languages, specified like mother tongue, during the period that have passed since previous census has increased by 0.4 percentage points and accounts for 2.9%.
Like this first TABLE
About number and composition population of UKRAINE
by All-Ukrainian population census'2001 data
The language structure of Ukraine, according to the All-Ukrainian census data, is characterized by the following data:
The part of those whose mother tongue was( %)
the language of their nationality Ukrainian Russian other language
Ukrainians 85.2 х 14.8 0.0
Russians 95.9 3.9 х 0.2
Belarussians 19.8 17.5 62.5 0.2
Moldavians 70.0 10.7 17.6 1.7
Interesting, isn't it?
Not all Ukrainians... speak Ukrainian. Or even report it as mother tongue.
SAME... as many other natiuonalities. EXCEPT... Russians.
Isn't that AS IT SHOULD be... in colony-empire relation.
""2010 presidential elections
A contentious election in 2010 saw pro-Russia candidate and former Prime Minister Viktor Yanukovych win with narrow margins over Prime Minister Yulia Tymoshenko. Yanukovych won with strong support in the Eastern regions, with most regions in the West favoring Tymoshenko.""
Well... that's just a PART of story.
PS See... I base my conclusions on facts.
\\How do you explain the VOTING patterns then? Kremlin propaganda?
/Ehm???
Why it need to be commented on?
Have you seen your own USA patterns?
There is natural for a country to have such type of patterns, I presume.
Indeed. Perfectly Natural. I myself live near the HEART of "enemy territory".
\\The point is, this is a Ukrainian CIVIL WAR.
/Not more a "war" than your own USA "civil war". ;-P
Perhaps not LESS, either.
\\And both sides sought, and succeeded, in obtaining foreign entanglements.
/BS.
Neither was.
Yanukovich which was freaking representative of that East... was trying to became EU and NATO member... well, until it was bribed, that simpleton, to sway it opposite way. :-)))
Just the same as EVERY previous leader of Ukraine.
Tried to play that "golden card".
Since... since forever!
Can we agree that the dispute as to which side to trade with escalated?
/PS I have said it, but I took it for a joke, isn't it?
That you just know not history of Ukraine?
Even in "Ukraine history in 10 minutes" from Youtube.
Yes?
Not as well as you are, I'm certain. But I'm not naive about its' history, either.
/err, ...you took it for a joke...
Actually I took it for what it was, a statement of fact.
\\Explicit enough?
/Expicit. Yes.
But... it not based on ANY factual base.
The pre-2014 election results were NOT a factual basis?
/Be it Ukrainian... or European history. Some politics and "national interests" of USA.
So... as they call it -- "invisible pink unicorn"(or that was "pink elephant"? sorry, I am not too proficient in your side of the Globe idioms)... and you trying to blame me for not answering what color of his mane is. ;-P
THAT is how it look... for now.
If the US were to have a civil war tomorrow, the US would split much like Ukraine, only it would be along "trading" lines... the Coasts would go for global trade and the center, for "interior" trade. The reasons for the war would be purely "economic" and not necessarily ideological (althought there certainly is that component). In other words, its' "regional". In 1861, it was North (industrial) vs South (agricultural). And you know who paid 80% of the taxes? It's why the South "seceeded" (ala Donbass/Luhansk). The "Capitalist Discourse" is usually taken as a "given"... until it's not.
\\btw - A battalion is a sub-unit of a regiment, which is a subunit of an army. And not all units need to get their hands dirty.
/See...
so it's still sublime for "they ALL nazis". ;-P
While... still based on anything else then your USA sticky leveling...
Cornwallis deserved no blame for "unleashing" his hounds???
/and liliPut's Propaganda exaggerately putting in use that lebeling. ;-P
No exagerations of the Russian and Putin's atrocities have been claimed? Tit-4-Tat, IMO.
/Well... why it BAD to be a "nazi", anyway? ;-P
Apart from lame substitution of precisely historically definied perpetrators of mass-killings... and anybody else, who was (self?)assigned... or just sticked with such labeling???
The Nazi's are the only group that we're still allowed to "hate" in the US. The Japanese (gooks) have been "reformed" in the MSM. The Italians (Fascists) have almost been completely disassociated with the term (fascist). I lived in "Fascist" Spain for 3 1/2 years growing up. I have little difficulty with the term. But NAZI... that's where almost all the real hatred, went. They were almost purely "white" and "toxically masculine"... therefore politically useful domestic characteristics to schmear on a bagel.
Well... I perfectly understand why empires... or just sufficiently big countries -- could dislike "nationalism". ;-P
/But... is this that point we discussing here?
I'm a proud Nationalist. Not a "White Nationalist" as Dervy likes to infer. But yes, the entire conflict in "drenched" in economic globalism, and those who would oppose it. Those who do not "pretend" to overly care for Ukraine's plight and who speak of, rather than conceal, their own self-interests.
\\ps- Not every unit in the Wehrmacht employed Totenkapf tactics. Hence... Azov.
/So... still same sublime "they ALL nazis".
For the battalion? Yes. For the Regiment's and Armies? No.
And... still TOTAL lack of any facts... apart from lame delusions/allusions. And your historical propaganda that "nazis are BAD"... while eliminating from open view... that nazis was national-SOCIALISTS. ;-P
You really think that ALL Americans have no understanding of the NAZI's? A quarter of my heritage as an American is pure German, from Ost-Friesland. Another quarter is of a Swiss-German mix. My grandfather still spoke German when I was a boy. As for their Socialism, that is true, but denied by almost all Left-Dominant quarters.
\\Azov are just men convinced that to achieve "the good" requires a little "extra effort". And that "extra effort" convinced the Russians to cross the border. Action - Reaction. It's "physics".
/BS.
Have we discussed OSCE reports???
Yes, we have. I'm aware of the source for much of the ever-escalating artillery fire leading up to Feb 2022.
/That was ALL in accordance with Glaivits-like plan -- make shooting on the front-lines, declare "they doing it", start a war... ehm, "special military operation"(by the likes of USA doing... whenever it wants), snatch easy Victory.
/But... with that last point, it worked out not that well.
So why not comply with the Minsk Accords? Because the accords were signed merely a veil intended as a temporary measure until NATO membership could be secured. THAT is why they did not continue its' mandated "inclusive national dialogue"? Why refuse to negotiate unless the break were "intentional"?
\\The Bible was written by men, like the koran and torah. No SKY G_D wrote it and dropped it one Earth. It's all fiction (but mostly TRUE fiction).
But that... ruins all that idea -- that Jesus need to be VENERATED as gawd. ;-P
And... if he is not, what that all about???
Some Marvel comics? ;-P
/Because of overly exaggerated OWN strength... and underestimating strength of an opponent.
That's why MEDDLING of USA was needed... to stall counter-offensive success. To pacify "Hitler of nowadays".
Yawn.
Desperate times, desperate measures. But Ukraine made a fatal mistake. It chose sides in USA's domestic politics... to stand with the "UniParty" globalist-aligned establishment of John McCain and Lindsay Graham against populism. To grant favours and do the bidding of these "interests" to suppress certain truth's, and impose a censorship regime upon their political rivals. Could they have done otherwise? I doubt it, but I do realize that Ukraine isn't my "friend", or my "ally". It's the tool of my political rivals. One that is being poorly used and should recognize that disaster (for them) is just around the corner. They're still strong, but they ARE weakening.
\\btw - The US will soon, like Cornwallis, make its' ignominious exit.
/Whatever.
"Better to lose with smart... than find with a stupid". ;-P
...said Louis XVI standing in the tumbrel.
\\I bear no ill will towards Ukraine. My ill will is directed soly at the idiots in Washington that first egged on and then dragged us in to this unnecessary conflict.
/Well...
Even if it'll be opposite. It would nit be a problem with me.
If only you keep being honest with me... and with yourself.
Self-delusioned fools... are in such abundance, that it is not interesting, in slightest.
Hear-hear!
\\On the Ukrainian Civil War
/Well... for at least to gave your "sources".
Well...
Ukrainian Civil War may refer to:
2014 Ukrainian Civil War
Ukrainian War of Independence (1917–21)
Ukrainian–Soviet War (1917–21)
Anti-Hetman Uprising (1918)
Hah... how that other 19XX refs -- STILL do not ring that bell to you -- that that is just SECOND war for Independence.
Well... it is so, because you know NO history of Ukraine...
Yawn.
No, I don't. But I do understand most of America's wars for Independence (and "civil"), beginning in England in 1688, and the costs involved in both successful, and unsuccessful, uprisings :)
/Well... by that OTHER link.
JUST IN THE BEGINNING.
""The war in Donbas,[c] or Donbas war, was a phase of the Russo-Ukrainian War in the Donbas region of Ukraine. The war began 12 April 2014, when a fifty-man commando unit headed by Russian citizen Igor Girkin..."" <<---- HERE!
Still doesn't ring a bell???
That that is just ANOTHER "special operation"...
Well... yeah.
Because you dunno history.
Yawn.
But I do know what happened in Euromaidan in the time period immediately preceeding it:
Euromaidan (/ˌjʊərəmaɪˈdɑːn, ˌjʊəroʊ-/ YOOR-ə-my-DAHN, YOOR-oh-;[82][83] Ukrainian: Євромайдан, romanized: Yevromaidan, IPA: [ˌjɛu̯romɐjˈdɑn], lit. 'Euro Square'),[nb 6] or the Maidan Uprising,[87] was a wave of demonstrations and civil unrest in Ukraine, which began on 21 November 2013 with large protests in Maidan Nezalezhnosti (Independence Square) in Kyiv. The protests were sparked by President Viktor Yanukovych's sudden decision not to sign the European Union–Ukraine Association Agreement, instead choosing closer ties to Russia and the Eurasian Economic Union. Ukraine's parliament had overwhelmingly approved of finalizing the Agreement with the EU,[88] but Russia had put pressure on Ukraine to reject it.
Gee, what POSSIBLY could have set them off? Perhaps a CIA inspired Coup? Action - Reaction. Physics.
\\To convince me, you'd need to explain this.
/Right after you'd explain HOW you still able to be ONE country... whileyou SO divided. ;-P
The occassional restoration of Goodwill (caritas) through political gestures, sometimes from an external threat (WWI/II/ 9/11), sometimes from sheer exhaustion (Civil War, 1865 as Union prevailed over Secession). Right now, we're approaching the very ends of "caritas" and the now OVER-OBVIOUS beginnings of the 'C' component of RICE (Trump trials/ censorship).
/Red states and blue states
Wikipedia
https://en.wikipedia.org › R...
Starting with the 2000 United States presidential election, the terms "red state" and "blue state" have referred to U.S. states whose voters vote ...
/Maybe some Girkin need to enter your turf too?
To "free" Dems from unholy rule of Reps...
or vice versa -- to liberate oppressed Reps from some nasty Dems?
Ever hear of John Wilkes Booth? He grew up in Tudor Hall, within 10 miles of my current residence. We've had plenty of Girkin's, and their admirers. But that's NOT the point. The point is to have a few healers willing to enter into the mix. And NOT made to sit down.
\\Indeed. Perfectly Natural. I myself live near the HEART of "enemy territory".
:-)
\\Perhaps not LESS, either.
That... I cannot relate to.
\\Can we agree that the dispute as to which side to trade with escalated?
Ehm???
If I understood this question well...
does difference between Dem and Rep... is only about Abortion Laws???
Because... that is how it seen from afar -- that while side want to eat fresh new fetuses flesh... while another, want it more seasoned, am I right with my (foreigner from far-far-away) understanding.
Hope... I not made it too overboard. With such a blatant exaggerationed sarcastic remark? :-(((
But I hope it reveals my point... to the fullest.
\\Not as well as you are, I'm certain. But I'm not naive about its' history, either.
Cannot see it...
Can you say couple of names from Ukrainian history???
As I can from USA... like: Columbus, Washington, Trump. ;-P
\\Actually I took it for what it was, a statement of fact.
You welcome.
\\The pre-2014 election results were NOT a factual basis?
And???
What more election results do you know? ;-)
See... I even do not ask about INTERNAL mechanics of it.
Because... it is interesting question in itself -- what ABSOLUTE minimum of information needed -- to have to come to some sound conclusion(s)???
Sorry for indulging myself. In my twisted curiosity. (shy)
\\If the US were to have a civil war tomorrow, the US would split much like Ukraine,
I... cannot call myself an expert in history of Civil War in USA.
But... I, somehow, think that that was not that simple...
For example -- structurally. There was INDEPENDENT politically, economically and military forces -- that time.
And there is NONE of such -- in today USA.
Like... can you split Money??? To make OWN version of dollars, for example???
Even such a miserly foreigner as I am -- I KNOW that you can't.
\\Cornwallis deserved no blame for "unleashing" his hounds???
Another times. Another war laws.
\\No exagerations of the Russian and Putin's atrocities have been claimed? Tit-4-Tat, IMO.
And WHAT city of RFia was destroyed by Ukrainians???
Reduced to a ground... like Mariupol??? (grave yards... can be seen from space -- would you DARE to check it out??? with Google Maps for example)
Or... where Russians was shut on streets... as it was in Bucha???
Or taken as hostages and tortured as in Kherson????
Or... that is kind of tit-4-tat as in case of Israel? "You was able to shut all missles... so, let's call you EVEN"????
/Or... that need to be some brave Mexicans. ;-P
To free their brethren. ;-)
Molon labe!
\\Azov members were doing in the Donbass in 2014+. It's only NAZI-like in similar behaviour and tactics, not necessarily "Ideology".
/BTW.
Nazis was killing people in concentration camps and burning their corpses in furnaces.
WAS that "nasty-nasty nazi-like Azov"... doing something, ANYTHING like that???
To deserve being compared. To be called "NAZI-like", "similar in behavior and tactics"???
Have it ANY substance???
Hmmmm...
Maybe taking them into the woods and possibly shooting some (or eventually just targetting them with artillery)? Extra-judicial justice isn't justice. And if it involves exchanges of artillery, it's easy to believe that it's gone beyond "justice"
/Especially.
As that is EXACTLY Russians doing it -- killing people, putting em in concentration camps, torturing, in try to destroy their identity and whole genetic pool... of Ukrainian "nazis".
But...
You seems like thinking that that is Ou'Key???
Because that need to be done? To deal that FINAL blow... to such an *apparent* NAZIs. ;-P
I do not condone any such actions of Russians OR Eastern Ukrainians. I do, therefore, condemn the OSCE Observers who stood by and allowed it to happen. oh, they "reported" it. Bulls have tits, too.
/From that link...
"The language
Ukrainian is the official language, spoken by 70% of the country’s population. Russian is also spoken widely and is the mother tongue of many Ukrainians,"
BS.
Russian -- is spoken by EVERYONE.
As it was language of EMPIRE of which Ukraine was just a colony.
SAME... as English is what EVERY USAian speak.
But... does it mean that USA need to be divided and turned back into colony(ies) of Great Britain? ;-P
That's why, like the Aussies, (and Canadiens, eh) we sound NOTHING alike. :)
\\where ethnic Russians are in the majority.
/Yeah.
Because of colonial politics of Empire. First called Russian Empire. Then Soviet Union.
And now it want to resurface as RFia.
Many "Tories" returned to England or fled to Canada after the American Revolution. Benjamin Franklin's son, for one. those that stayed, remained "Americans". The same would happen in Ukraine, were Ukraine to prevail in the current conflict. Many Mohawks and other Iroquois were resettled on Canadian Reservations.
/""Violent protests broke out in the Crimean capital of Simferopol on February 27, against the new order set in motion a week earlier amid mass demonstrations in the country capital of Kiev.""
BS.
And even DIRECT lie.
May I see FACTUAL evidences of that "violent protests"?
And especially -- with pointing DIRECT sources of such "evidances" -- isn't they all, from RFia? ;-)
Simferopol... Euronews is a Russia propaganda outlet? Who knew? btw - J6 was an "Insurrection" here. Yet only Trumpists were killed, none of those at whom the "Insurrection" was directed. Strange, huh?
\\Crimea is a bastion of support for ousted President Yanukovych
/UTTER BS.
That can be only explained by the moment of that article was concockted.
Because Yanukovych was in Crimea for a very SHORT time -- to enter Russian Military Base there... just to be extracted safely further to the RFia territory.
WHAT "bastion of support"???
By that time, even his CLOSEST minions parted him... because he BETRAYED them first. Was thinking ONLY about how to haul all that money he stole from Ukrainians.
Do I need to pull out the voting maps again?
\\and is also home to Russia's Black Sea naval fleet, based at Sevastopol.
/Yeah.
Doesn't ring a bell??? Still???
In February and March 2014, Russia invaded the Crimean Peninsula, part of Ukraine, and then annexed it. This took place in the relative power vacuum immediately following the Revolution of Dignity. (aka - Maidan coup) Can you conduct a coup and then overturn it in a region and then claim that you are the victims of the over-turning again? You can, but the credibility goes down, and down, and down...
\\2001 Ukraine Census
/Maybe... you should excavated SOURCE? ;-P
According to the All-Ukrainian Population Census '2001 data, the number of men totaled 22.441 thousand people, or 46.3%, that of women - 26.016 thousand people, or 53.7%.
General results of the census
Всеукраїнський перепис населення 2001:
http://2001.ukrcensus.gov.ua › Main page › Results
\\Linguistic composition of population
The language structure of Ukraine, according to the All-Ukrainian Census data, is various. The part of those whose mother tongue is Ukrainian totals 67.5% of the population of Ukraine, this is by 2.8 percentage points more than in 1989. The percentage of those whose mother tongue is Russian totals 29.6% of the population. Comparatively with the data of previous census this index has decreased by 3.2 percentage points. The part of other languages, specified like mother tongue, during the period that have passed since previous census has increased by 0.4 percentage points and accounts for 2.9%.
Like this first TABLE
About number and composition population of UKRAINE
by All-Ukrainian population census'2001 data
The language structure of Ukraine, according to the All-Ukrainian census data, is characterized by the following data:
The part of those whose mother tongue was( %)
the language of their nationality Ukrainian Russian other language
Ukrainians 85.2 х 14.8 0.0
Russians 95.9 3.9 х 0.2
Belarussians 19.8 17.5 62.5 0.2
Moldavians 70.0 10.7 17.6 1.7
Interesting, isn't it?
Not all Ukrainians... speak Ukrainian. Or even report it as mother tongue.
SAME... as many other natiuonalities. EXCEPT... Russians.
Isn't that AS IT SHOULD be... in colony-empire relation.
Yep. Few un-hyphenated Americans speak anything but English today. But it's less and less a percentage every year. Can you tell when the economic globalism started?
/""2010 presidential elections
A contentious election in 2010 saw pro-Russia candidate and former Prime Minister Viktor Yanukovych win with narrow margins over Prime Minister Yulia Tymoshenko. Yanukovych won with strong support in the Eastern regions, with most regions in the West favoring Tymoshenko.""
Well... that's just a PART of story.
PS See... I base my conclusions on facts.
True, but it does point to "economic interests".
\\The Nazi's are the only group that we're still allowed to "hate" in the US.
Yeah.
Cause it like hating some imaginary elfs and gnomes -- totally harmless. :-)))
\\They were almost purely "white" and "toxically masculine"...
Yeah.
And NOT socialist. ;-P
\\I'm a proud Nationalist.
I cannot say anything about it even.
Totally agnostic.
\\ But yes, the entire conflict in "drenched" in economic globalism, and those who would oppose it.
Whatever you'd say. :-)
\\\\ps- Not every unit in the Wehrmacht employed Totenkapf tactics. Hence... Azov.
/So... still same sublime "they ALL nazis".
\\For the battalion? Yes. For the Regiment's and Armies? No.
See... you squinting absolutely the same as Derpy. ;-P
So... WHAT number of people was in that battalion? To harass hundreds of miles of frontlines and thousand of villages and towns alongside em???
Like... you remember of that "300 spartans" -- "fifty-man commando unit headed by Russian citizen Igor Girkin seized Sloviansk" -- was enough to harass one small town... just for a short time.
And only because state police and government forces was in disarray.
So??? HOW mere "battalion" (which in reality was just a big name... for 100-200 people regiment), could accomplish all that STILL NOT listed properly by your "sources" ATROCITIES???????????????????????????????????????????????
Enough to be "compared" with "Wehrmacht employed Totenkapf tactics".
I just consulted with Google.
Its name, Totenkopf, is German for "death's head" – the skull and crossbones symbol – and it is thus sometimes referred to as the Death's Head Division. 3rd SS Panzer Division Totenkopf. 3. SS-Panzerdivision "Totenkopf" Divisional insignia.
3rd SS Panzer Division Totenkopf - Wikipedia
Wikipedia
https://en.wikipedia.org › wiki
It was FULL-FLEDGED division.
Means... 10x to 100x in strength... to a mere "battalion".
ARMORED, to boot.
And TOTALLY supported by Government.
And there was NOT one and only SUCH division.
Oh... I must agree...
That Ukrainian nazis are TOTALLY FEARCEFULL -- able to accomplish with 100 poorly armed man MOAR ATTROCITiES... then fully equipped and trained SS brigades of Real Historical NAZIs.
\\You really think that ALL Americans have no understanding of the NAZI's?
Can I talk with ALL Americans???
Surely I can't.
I just can account thoughts so ones I do meet on the Internet.
Surely... that is far from being anyhow precise.
That's why I trying to not rush with conclusions... and cling with "I dunno".(or... better say "cling to"?)
\\Have we discussed OSCE reports???
\\Yes, we have. I'm aware of the source for much of the ever-escalating artillery fire leading up to Feb 2022.
And from where and to where it was shut?
And about how it was FORBIDEN to check anything on RFia side of the frontlines?
And how OPEN was Ukranian side.?
\\So why not comply with the Minsk Accords?
And RFia would comply too????
Like with chease fire? Removing their armed forces? Allowing secured borders?
\\Because the accords were signed merely a veil intended as a temporary measure until NATO membership could be secured.
And from where you received such an UTTER BS????
NATO membership STill "only promiced" and far-far-away from being "secured".
Even today.
\\Why refuse to negotiate unless the break were "intentional"?
Negotiate???
With whom??? And about WHAT????
\\Desperate times, desperate measures.
BS.
What "desperation" was in 2022... in compare with 2021. or 2023.
That was purely "war of choice".
With FULL FREEDOM of ONE side ONLY -- to decide time and pace and methods...
\\ But Ukraine made a fatal mistake. It chose sides in USA's domestic politics...
Oh... please... :-))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))
\\...said Louis XVI standing in the tumbrel.
:-))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))
\\No, I don't. But I do understand most of America's wars for Independence (and "civil"), beginning in England in 1688, and the costs involved in both successful, and unsuccessful, uprisings :)
Well...
here we have TOTAL disparity.
I cannot claim knowing much about it...
Though, trying to not make conclusions based on such non-knowing...
\\But I do know what happened in Euromaidan in the time period immediately preceeding it:
You do???
Then you need to go to propose your service to a General Procurature of Ukraine -- to help em in their investigation of that events... they STILL not completed.
\\The protests were sparked by President Viktor Yanukovych's sudden decision not to sign the European Union–Ukraine Association Agreement
Not exactly.
SPARKLED it... from beating some student-activists. Protesting against... yeah, THAT betrayal.
But.
REAL start was done -- with that utterly stupid and utterly outrageous -- try to THWART that peaceful protest.
And then... it escalated.
Not without help from RFia... it seems.
But, truth about it... is still OUT THERE. :-((((((((((
\\Gee, what POSSIBLY could have set them off? Perhaps a CIA inspired Coup? Action - Reaction. Physics.
Hah???
So that was CIA snipers??? That started killing people on Maidan??? %-)))
What is that -- some Hollywood blockbuster????
\\https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Wilkes_Booth
Was he supported by foreign secret services???
To succeed. ;-P
Well... I know that Oswald. ;-)
\\Molon labe!
Shields do not help against... what Mexicans like to use???
Bolos?
Takos?
Uhm... I'm out of Mexica-related prejudges. Oups! ;-P
\\Extra-judicial justice isn't justice. And if it involves exchanges of artillery, it's easy to believe that it's gone beyond "justice"
WHAT artillery??? %-)))))
They was distrusted by government, you remember?
Or... that is still that same sublime "they ALL are nazis".
\\ I do, therefore, condemn the OSCE Observers who stood by and allowed it to happen. oh, they "reported" it. Bulls have tits, too.
OSCE exist on donations. From RFia too.
And lots members of it... from RFia too.
Well... that same game "big nations" like to play with those who are smaller.
\\Russians OR Eastern Ukrainians
There is NO any "Eastern Ukrainians"
RFia itself ABOISHED that notion.
When started calling em... just "same as any other Russians/RFians".
Same pre-destined to die for Mother Russia -- well, that is ONE and ONLY definite trait of being Russian.
And that's why RFia IS Empire... even if deficient. Because it KNOW how to treat people as empire should.
And USA -- are not. ;-P
\\That's why, like the Aussies, (and Canadiens, eh) we sound NOTHING alike. :)
Yeah... you not parts of one empire anymore.
\\The same would happen in Ukraine, were Ukraine to prevail in the current conflict. Many Mohawks and other Iroquois were resettled on Canadian Reservations.
Oh... it will be even MOAR hairy... I prophess.
Even you... can come and became Ukrainian. (well, I know, seen such people myself)
\\Simferopol... Euronews is a Russia propaganda outlet?
And that was THIER OWN report and reporters???
Or... they just TOOK, and translated some ready made materials? ;-)
\\btw - J6 was an "Insurrection" here. Yet only Trumpists were killed, none of those at whom the "Insurrection" was directed. Strange, huh?
You know my POV on it already.
\\Do I need to pull out the voting maps again?
If you'd find a way to demonstrate why they matter/what they mean.
\\\\and is also home to Russia's Black Sea naval fleet, based at Sevastopol.
/Yeah.
Doesn't ring a bell??? Still???
\\In February and March 2014, Russia invaded the Crimean Peninsula, part of Ukraine, and then annexed it. This took place in the relative power vacuum immediately following the Revolution of Dignity. (aka - Maidan coup) Can you conduct a coup and then overturn it in a region and then claim that you are the victims of the over-turning again? You can, but the credibility goes down, and down, and down...
???
But it looks like you just tried to prove my point. ;-)
\\Yep. Few un-hyphenated Americans speak anything but English today. But it's less and less a percentage every year. Can you tell when the economic globalism started?
Ehm???
\\True, but it does point to "economic interests".
Whose???
RFia's "oligarchs"(totally misleading name, because they are neither independent as one nor they have ANY political mobility of their own) -- to conqure neighbor country to make its riches own????
\\Indeed. Perfectly Natural. I myself live near the HEART of "enemy territory".
/:-)
\\Perhaps not LESS, either.
/That... I cannot relate to.
US Civil War? 650,000 dead. Maybe you're not there yet?
\\Can we agree that the dispute as to which side to trade with escalated?
/Ehm???
If I understood this question well...
does difference between Dem and Rep... is only about Abortion Laws???
Because... that is how it seen from afar -- that while side want to eat fresh new fetuses flesh... while another, want it more seasoned, am I right with my (foreigner from far-far-away) understanding.
Hope... I not made it too overboard. With such a blatant exaggerationed sarcastic remark? :-(((
But I hope it reveals my point... to the fullest.
Okay, I agree, there are other issues. Moral differences/ issues. Ours are largely urban vs. rural values. Owners vs. renters, and worse... Over-Educated elites vs. Moderately Educated elites & tradesmen.
\\Not as well as you are, I'm certain. But I'm not naive about its' history, either.
/Cannot see it...
Can you say couple of names from Ukrainian history???
As I can from USA... like: Columbus, Washington, Trump. ;-P
Nope. Zelinsky's about as deep as I care to go nowadays... although I could name many of your oligarch's and prosecutors at one time not too long ago 2016-17. And i always found Viktor Yuschenko's AMERICAN STATE DEPT wife to be a bit of a CIA curiosity.
\\Actually I took it for what it was, a statement of fact.
/You welcome.
Natch.
\\The pre-2014 election results were NOT a factual basis?
/And???
What more election results do you know? ;-)
See... I even do not ask about INTERNAL mechanics of it.
Because... it is interesting question in itself -- what ABSOLUTE minimum of information needed -- to have to come to some sound conclusion(s)???
Sorry for indulging myself. In my twisted curiosity. (shy)
...and, they reflect the same political divisions vote after vote (much like USA with a few "swing states").
\\If the US were to have a civil war tomorrow, the US would split much like Ukraine,
/I... cannot call myself an expert in history of Civil War in USA.
But... I, somehow, think that that was not that simple...
For example -- structurally. There was INDEPENDENT politically, economically and military forces -- that time.
And there is NONE of such -- in today USA.
Like... can you split Money??? To make OWN version of dollars, for example???
Even such a miserly foreigner as I am -- I KNOW that you can't.
Do you know what the US Army is? What a National Guard is? State Militia? Differences? The structures are ALL still there. Which side do you think the Texas Air National Guard would take vs. Texas State Guard? Maryland's ANG (mostly A-10s and C-130s)? Reserve Units? My FiL was a General in the NY State Guard (aka "Old Guard"). The Command structure still runs through the Governor there, and not the President. And when a war did ever break out, how many Robert E. Lee's would defect from the "Union Army" units to State (ie - Virginia) units?
As for money, all you need to do is "print" it (ie - Confederate dollars). We still don't have a CBDC (although they're pushing for it). Got BitCoin? How about gold-silver?
Can't? It's all been done before.
\\Cornwallis deserved no blame for "unleashing" his hounds???
/Another times. Another war laws.
Tell that to IDF in Gaza.
\\No exagerations of the Russian and Putin's atrocities have been claimed? Tit-4-Tat, IMO.
/And WHAT city of RFia was destroyed by Ukrainians???
Reduced to a ground... like Mariupol??? (grave yards... can be seen from space -- would you DARE to check it out??? with Google Maps for example)
Or... where Russians was shut on streets... as it was in Bucha???
Or taken as hostages and tortured as in Kherson????
Or... that is kind of tit-4-tat as in case of Israel? "You was able to shut all missles... so, let's call you EVEN"????
How many times have Ukrainians invaded Donbass? Luhansk? What will they do if/when they do again? Not level cities? Avoid civilian casualties? War is hell. And it's only over when its' over. Sherman burned Atlanta to the ground. It was a "civil" war. As it was in Mariupol.
From that same page
""
Sloviansk
Main article: Siege of Sloviansk
Pro-Russian insurgents occupying the Sloviansk city administration building, 14 April 2014
On 12 April, the strategic town of Sloviansk was captured by a fifty-strong unit of heavily-armed pro-Russian militants.[71] They attacked and occupied the town's administration building, police station, and SBU building, and set up roadblocks with the help of local armed activists.[71][90] The unit were Russian Armed Forces 'volunteers' under the command of Russian GRU colonel Igor Girkin ('Strelkov').[71][91] They had been sent from Russian-occupied Crimea and wore no insignia.[71]
""
STILL doesn't ring a bell???
GRU means Military SpecOps. Like your Seals.
IF your USA seals... would be spotted in some other country... well, let's take some close-culture one for further similarity...
Like in Longon. Or Ottawa. Blocking government buildings. Under pre-text of some "civil war".
Would it REALLY be counted as Civil War? ;-P
Who'd they fool with it? For how long???
Well... some Malasians, would be sure that that was REALLY just some Civil War.
Especially if China channels would be telling em about it.
That's how Propaganda, and Misinformation, and first of all OWN Human's Ignorance works. ;-P
"
"
Girkin said that this action sparked the Donbas War. He said "I'm the one who pulled the trigger of war. If our unit hadn't crossed the border, everything would have fizzled out, like in Kharkiv, like in Odesa".[92][93] He explained that "nobody there wanted to fight" until his unit seized Sloviansk.[94]
"
"
So much for "civil war"... that was SO OBVIOUS... if just look at elections maps. ;-P
\\It was reported on 12 May that, following the local autonomy referendum, the Donbas People's Militia leader Igor Girkin declared himself "Supreme Commander" of the Donetsk People's Republic. In his decree, he demanded that all military stationed in the region swear an oath of allegiance to him within 48 hours, and said that all remaining Ukrainian military in the region would be "destroyed on the spot".
Yeah... without any backup??? Such a bold claims POSSIBLE???
Or... it is surely possible -- when you are emissary of foreign country... that holding ready intervention forces, just across the border???
"
"
A CNN investigation found clear evidence that the attack came from the air and the pattern of the craters suggested use of standard equipment on the Su-25, a ground-attack fighter, and the Su-27 – both combat aircraft operated by Ukraine.[191] Radio Liberty also concluded that "Despite Denials, All Evidence For Deadly Explosion Points To Kyiv".[194] CNN said that it was the first time that civilians had been killed in an attack by the Ukrainian air force during the 2014 pro-Russian unrest in the Donbas.[191] The next day, Luhansk People's Republic declared a three-day mourning in the city.[195]
"
"
And as always... THAT CNN truth-telling reporters. ;-P
"
"
Russian tank incursion
Ukrainian officials said that Russia had allowed tanks to cross the Russo-Ukrainian border into Donetsk Oblast on 11 June. Internal Affairs Minister Arsen Avakov said "we have observed columns passing with armoured personnel carriers, other armoured vehicles and artillery pieces, and tanks which, according to our information, came across the border and this morning were in Snizhne". He continued by saying Ukrainian forces had destroyed part of the column, and that fighting was still under way. Reuters correspondents confirmed the presence of three tanks in Donetsk city, and the US State Department's Bureau of Intelligence and Research also said that Russia had indeed sent tanks, along with other heavy weapons, to the separatists in Ukraine.[204]
"
"
STILL... "just a civil war"?????
OBVIOUSLY SEEN from elections maps????
"
"
The weapons sent are said to have included: a column of three T-64 tanks, several BM-21 Grad multiple rocket launchers, and other military vehicles. "Russia will claim these tanks were taken from Ukrainian forces, but no Ukrainian tank units have been operating in that area," the State Department said in a statement. "We are confident that these tanks came from Russia."[205] The newly elected Ukrainian president Petro Poroshenko said that it was "unacceptable" for tanks to cross into Ukraine. Russia called the reports "another fake piece of information."[206] Nevertheless, the three tanks were later spotted moving through Makiivka and Torez, flying the flag of the Russian Federation.[207] Insurgents confirmed that they had obtained three tanks, but leaders refused to elaborate on how they acquired them; one militant told reporters that they originated "from a military warehouse".[208]
"
"
But... "that is civil war"... SURE AS DAY!
"
"
After a brief lull following the insurgent withdrawal from the northern part of Donetsk Oblast, fighting continued to escalate sharply in the eastern parts of Donetsk Oblast. Shells landed on the border town of Donetsk in Rostov Oblast, a part of Russia, on 13 July.[253] One civilian was killed in the shelling. Russian officials blamed the Armed Forces of Ukraine for the shelling, whilst Ukraine denied responsibility and accused insurgents in the Donbas of having staged a false flag attack.[254] Russia said it was considering launching airstrikes against government targets in Ukraine as retaliation for the shelling.[255]
"
"
Those nasty Ukrainian nazis DID IT.
FER SURE!
AND.
Classics!
"
"
Downing of Malaysia Airlines Flight 17
Main article: Malaysia Airlines Flight 17
On 17 July 2014, DPR forces shot down a civilian passenger jet, Malaysia Airlines Flight 17 over Hrabove (a village in the Donetsk Oblask), killing all 298 people on board. This disaster followed two similar incidents earlier in the week, when two Ukrainian Air Force planes were shot down.[261]
DPR-affiliated insurgents blamed the Ukrainian government for the disaster, whereas the government, Netherlands, and Australia blamed Russia and the insurgents.[262][263] The responsibility for investigation was delegated to the Dutch Safety Board (DSB) and the Dutch-led joint investigation team (JIT), who concluded that the airliner was downed by a Buk surface-to-air missile launched from pro-Russian separatist-controlled territory in Ukraine.[264][265] According to the JIT, the Buk that was used originated from the 53rd Anti-Aircraft Missile Brigade of the Russian Federation,[266][267] and had been transported from Russia on the day of the crash, fired from a field in a separatist-controlled area, and the launcher returned to Russia after it was used to shoot down MH17.[268][266][269]
On the basis of the JIT's conclusions, the governments of the Netherlands and Australia held Russia responsible for the deployment of the Buk installation and took steps to hold Russia formally accountable.[262][263]
"
"
And... there is COURT JUDGMENT about it.
But.
It STILL... just a "civil war".
FER SURE!!!
"
"
DPR commander Igor Girkin also said "The time has come when Russia must take a final decision – to really support Donbas's Russians or abandon them forever".
"
"
What???
"Civil war"... ended???
"
"
According to a report by National Security and Defence Council of Ukraine, crossing points on the border with Russia were attacked from Russian territory at least 153 times since 5 June.[305] 27 border guardsmen were killed in these attacks, and 185 were injured.
"
"
Naturally... because that is "civil war".
"
"
Following a series of military defeats, Igor Girkin, insurgent commander for the DPR, urged Russian military intervention, and said that the combat inexperience of his irregular forces, along with recruitment difficulties amongst the local population in Donetsk Oblast had caused the setbacks. He addressed Russian president Vladimir Putin, saying that "Losing this war on the territory that President Vladimir Putin personally named New Russia would threaten the Kremlin's power and, personally, the power of the president".[311] Government forces closed in on Luhansk and Donetsk cities on 3 August.[312]
"
"
So much for "civil war" and "supreme leader" of "independent republic".
"
"
By 9 August, insurgent commander Igor Girkin said that Donetsk had been "completely encircled" by government forces.
"
"
"
"
Overnight and into 10 August, government forces launched an artillery barrage on Donetsk city.[326] According to a spokesman for the Armed Forces, insurgents began to flee the city during the barrage, and were in a state of "panic and chaos".
During this artillery barrage, Igor Girkin resigned from his post as commander of the insurgent forces of the Donetsk People's Republic.
"
"
Supreme Leader... my ass.
"
"
Girkin's resignation, along with the 7 August resignation of DPR prime minister Alexander Borodai (who was replaced by Alexander Zakharchenko), represented a shift in the nature of the conflict. Given the recent military failings of the DPR and the LPR, Russia decided that it could no longer rely on a patchwork of irregular fighters in the Donbas, and ordered a change in leadership.[331] It abandoned the separatist project, and replaced it with the idea of federalisation of Donbas within Ukraine. To effect this change, it would soon switch gears from hybrid warfare to conventional warfare.[332]
"
"
!!!!!!!!!!!
"
"
August 2014 invasion by Russian forces
Main articles: Battle of Ilovaisk and Battle of Novoazovsk
Further information: Russo-Ukrainian War
A June–August 2014 map of insurgent-held areas
Ukrainian troops guarding a road in the Donbas, August 2014
On 14 August, a convoy of some two dozen armoured personnel carriers and other vehicles with official Russian military plates crossed into Ukraine near the insurgent-controlled Izvaryne border crossing.[333][334] NATO Secretary General Anders Fogh Rasmussen confirmed that a "Russian incursion" into Ukraine had occurred.[335]
"
"
YEAH!!!! CIVIL WAR... IT IS!!!!!!
\\US Civil War? 650,000 dead. Maybe you're not there yet?
Remind to me... how many USAians died in ww2?
Forgive me... I have a bad memory... for such a small insignificant numbers. %-)
And how man in whole World -- Europe first of all?
\\As I can from USA... like: Columbus, Washington, Trump. ;-P
\\Nope. Zelinsky's about as deep as I care to go nowadays...
Yap.
THAT'S IT.
That's why your overview is SO oversimplifying.
\\...and, they reflect the same political divisions vote after vote (much like USA with a few "swing states").
Why not?
What's the problem?
Division/diversity/heterogeneity -- that's what makes this World ticking. ;-P
Like Yin and Yang. ;-)
\\Do you know what the US Army is? What a National Guard is? State Militia? Differences?
Well... about that... MUCH MORe than you about "Donetsk Militia" and "Separatists Units". ;-P
\\ And when a war did ever break out, how many Robert E. Lee's would defect from the "Union Army" units to State (ie - Virginia) units?
And how many wirehouses with war-time stuff they'll would able to control.
To have ammo and rations for every day for everyone... for at least. ;-P
Profanes talk about "strategy". Profis... about Logistics.
\\As for money, all you need to do is "print" it (ie - Confederate dollars). We still don't have a CBDC (although they're pushing for it). Got BitCoin? How about gold-silver?
You can study about what problems got RFia today... and Iran before.
And they... spend a LONG time to prepare for that... and/or mitigate that problems.
And still... perform quite poorly.
\\Can't? It's all been done before.
Naaah.
Not in CURRENT economy.
What will happen with Bay Area for example... if logistics STOP non-stop replenishing supermarkets shelves????
\\Tell that to IDF in Gaza.
Hah???
To make it more like in Bible? ;-P
\\How many times have Ukrainians invaded Donbass? Luhansk?
Ehm????
What do you mean under that "invaded"?????
How many time USA army invaded... New York??? Or Chicago???
What's the question is this????
\\ It was a "civil" war. As it was in Mariupol.
You can call it... whatever you like.
Words... is just a Stick It stickers.
Especially when that is words of a foreign language.
"
"
The Russian military confirmed that these men were Russian paratroopers and that they had been captured. The Russian Defence Ministry said the men had entered Ukraine "by mistake during an exercise".[355][356] The Security Service of Ukraine (SBU) released videos that they said were interviews with the captive Russian soldiers. In one of the videos, a soldier said that their commanders had sent them on a 70-kilometre (43+1⁄2 mi) march "without explaining its purpose or warning that they would be in Ukrainian territory, where they were apprehended by Ukrainian forces and surrendered without a fight".[357]
"
"
Narrative... that became VERY popular since that time...
"
"
January 2017 eruption of heavy fighting and failed ceasefires
A view from a Ukrainian Armed Forces support point near Pisky, January 2017
2016 was the first full calendar year of the conflict in which Ukraine lost no territories to pro-Russian forces.[471] In addition, both the Ukrainian Armed Forces (211 combat losses and 256 non-combat losses) and the local populace (13 in Ukrainian government-controlled areas) suffered significantly less casualties than in 2015.[471] The new year, however, brought a new eruption of heavy fighting, starting on 29 January 2017, centred on the Ukrainian-controlled city of Avdiivka.[472]
On 18 February 2017, Russian president Vladimir Putin signed a decree whereby the Russian authorities would recognise personal and vehicle-registration documents issued by the DPR and LPR.[473] The presidential decree referred to "permanent residents of certain areas of Ukraine's Donetsk and Luhansk Oblasts", without any mention of the self-proclaimed People's Republics.[474] Ukrainian authorities decried the decree as being directly contradictory to the Minsk II agreement and that it "legally recognised the quasi-state terrorist groups which cover Russia's occupation of part of Donbas."[475] Secretary General of the Organization for Security and Co-operation in Europe (OSCE) Lamberto Zannier stated on 19 February the decree "implies...recognition of those who issue the documents, of course" and that it would make it more difficult to hold a ceasefire.[476]
"
"
AGAIN! That nasty Ukrainian nazis provoked fights... and stalled Minsk Treaty.
"
"
A September 2014 International Republican Institute poll of the Ukrainian public (excluding those in Russian-annexed Crimea) had 89% of respondents opposing Russian intervention in Ukraine.[644] As broken down by region, 78% of those polled from Eastern Ukraine (including Dnipropetrovsk Oblast) opposed the intervention, along with 89% in Southern Ukraine, 93% in Central Ukraine, and 99% in Western Ukraine.[644] As broken down by native language, 79% of Russian speakers and 95% of Ukrainian speakers opposed the intervention. 80% of those polled said that Ukraine should remain a unitary country.[644]
"
"
\\...said Louis XVI standing in the tumbrel.
Maybe I was wrong, and this was example CONFIRMING my words?
\\The Nazi's are the only group that we're still allowed to "hate" in the US.
/Yeah.
Cause it like hating some imaginary elfs and gnomes -- totally harmless. :-)))
Why do you think there are so many successful Chinese Intel Ops in USA today? It's a shame that they're not Black. They'd be running the entire DOD and USIC today.
\\They were almost purely "white" and "toxically masculine"...
/Yeah.
And NOT socialist. ;-P
Antifa doesn't exist. Just ask the MSM.
\\I'm a proud Nationalist.
/I cannot say anything about it even.
Totally agnostic.
I prefer to only play in my own garden unless attacked directly. THEN I'll ruin yours.
\\\\ps- Not every unit in the Wehrmacht employed Totenkapf tactics. Hence... Azov.
/So... still same sublime "they ALL nazis".
\\For the battalion? Yes. For the Regiment's and Armies? No.
See... you squinting absolutely the same as Derpy. ;-P
So... WHAT number of people was in that battalion? To harass hundreds of miles of frontlines and thousand of villages and towns alongside em???
Like... you remember of that "300 spartans" -- "fifty-man commando unit headed by Russian citizen Igor Girkin seized Sloviansk" -- was enough to harass one small town... just for a short time.
And only because state police and government forces was in disarray.
Really? What Azov Commanders were relieved? And so yes, the battalion stink wafts and rises through regiments and armies. For as long as the Totenkofp battalions remain deployed... you won't shake the "Nazi" stink. And even if they were reconstituted, the "history" of Azov units would still perfume the entire force, and linger.
So??? HOW mere "battalion" (which in reality was just a big name... for 100-200 people regiment), could accomplish all that STILL NOT listed properly by your "sources" ATROCITIES???????????????????????????????????????????????
Battalion vs. Regiment
When at full strength, an infantry regiment normally comprised two field battalions of about 800 men each or 8–10 companies. In some armies, an independent regiment with fewer companies was labelled a demi-regiment. A cavalry regiment numbered 600 to 900 troopers, making up a single entity.
Enough to be "compared" with "Wehrmacht employed Totenkapf tactics".
I just consulted with Google.
Its name, Totenkopf, is German for "death's head" – the skull and crossbones symbol – and it is thus sometimes referred to as the Death's Head Division. 3rd SS Panzer Division Totenkopf. 3. SS-Panzerdivision "Totenkopf" Divisional insignia.
3rd SS Panzer Division Totenkopf - Wikipedia
Wikipedia
https://en.wikipedia.org › wiki
It was FULL-FLEDGED division.
Means... 10x to 100x in strength... to a mere "battalion".
ARMORED, to boot.
And TOTALLY supported by Government.
And there was NOT one and only SUCH division.
Bigger Army, more units. In 1944, the Wehrmacht was 9.42 million men. In early 1944 the Waffen-SS made up less than 5 percent of the Wehrmacht, but it accounted for nearly one-fourth of Germany’s panzer divisions and roughly one-third of the Wehrmacht’s panzer grenadier (mechanized infantry) divisions.
How big is the Ukrainian Army? 1-2 million, counting reserves?
/Oh... I must agree...
That Ukrainian nazis are TOTALLY FEARCEFULL -- able to accomplish with 100 poorly armed man MOAR ATTROCITiES... then fully equipped and trained SS brigades of Real Historical NAZIs.
The regiment's (Azov) size was estimated to be around 2,500 combatants in 2017,[3] and around 900 in 2022.[23] Most of the unit's members are Russian speakers from Russian-speaking regions of Ukraine. It also includes members from other countries.[10] The regiment gained renewed attention during the Russian invasion of Ukraine. Russian president Vladimir Putin alleged that Ukraine was controlled by far-right forces, such as Azov, and gave "denazification" as a reason for the invasion. The Azov regiment played a prominent role in the Siege of Mariupol and made its final stand at the Azovstal steel plant.[24][25] The siege ended when a significant number of the regiment's fighters, including its commander, Denys Prokopenko, surrendered to Russian forces on orders from the Ukrainian high command.
\\You really think that ALL Americans have no understanding of the NAZI's?
/Can I talk with ALL Americans???
Surely I can't.
I just can account thoughts so ones I do meet on the Internet.
Surely... that is far from being anyhow precise.
That's why I trying to not rush with conclusions... and cling with "I dunno".(or... better say "cling to"?)
Good for you. Perhaps I should have said, "Do you think ME ignorant about Nazism?" At least, more ignorant than most? Go ahead, be honest. You won't hurt my feelings so much as p*ss me off.
\\Have we discussed OSCE reports???
\\Yes, we have. I'm aware of the source for much of the ever-escalating artillery fire leading up to Feb 2022.
And from where and to where it was shut?
And about how it was FORBIDEN to check anything on RFia side of the frontlines?
And how OPEN was Ukranian side.?
Read the tables. It's all there. Much seems written so as to be purposely as vague as possible. Apparently their bosses didn't want to know ALL the gnitty-gritties. It might have forced them to "act" instead of merely watch/ listen.
\\So why not comply with the Minsk Accords?
/And RFia would comply too????
Like with chease fire? Removing their armed forces? Allowing secured borders?
...coming to the negotiating table???? Isn't THAT the 1st step???
\\Because the accords were signed merely a veil intended as a temporary measure until NATO membership could be secured.
/And from where you received such an UTTER BS????
NATO membership STill "only promiced" and far-far-away from being "secured".
Even today.
I give up. Soviet propaganda?
“The 2014 Minsk agreement was an attempt to give Ukraine time,” Merkel told the weekly Die Zeit. “It also used this time to become stronger, as you can see today.” Reuters works for Putin?
\\Why refuse to negotiate unless the break were "intentional"?
/Negotiate???
With whom??? And about WHAT????
Ask Zelensky.
\\Desperate times, desperate measures.
/BS.
What "desperation" was in 2022... in compare with 2021. or 2023.
That was purely "war of choice".
With FULL FREEDOM of ONE side ONLY -- to decide time and pace and methods...
As Merkel said... '21 was the time to "re-arm Ukraine". As McCain and Graham's comments back in 2016/7 calling for Ukraine soldiers to go "on the offensive" used to be all over the internet, but conveniently go missing today.
\\ But Ukraine made a fatal mistake. It chose sides in USA's domestic politics...
/Oh... please... :-))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))
Where'd that secret ledger come from to charge Manafort with? Oh yeah, Ukraine. That Trump "impeachable" phonecall was with who? Zelensky? His whistle-blowing Butt boy (& former Ukrainian) Vindman got frog walked off the WH premises.
\\But I do know what happened in Euromaidan in the time period immediately preceeding it:
/You do???
Then you need to go to propose your service to a General Procurature of Ukraine -- to help em in their investigation of that events... they STILL not completed.
I'll send them a Wikipedia article. 10 years is a bit long for an investigation, especially when the statute of limitations is usually 3-7 years. But then again, it's probably subject to a 50 Year "Secrecy" moratorium so as not to reveal the names of Intelligence Operatives involved.
\\The protests were sparked by President Viktor Yanukovych's sudden decision not to sign the European Union–Ukraine Association Agreement
/Not exactly.
SPARKLED it... from beating some student-activists. Protesting against... yeah, THAT betrayal.
But.
REAL start was done -- with that utterly stupid and utterly outrageous -- try to THWART that peaceful protest.
And then... it escalated.
Not without help from RFia... it seems.
But, truth about it... is still OUT THERE. :-((((((((((
"Sparked". Sparkled evokes a "sparkler" (firework). Sparks or Sparked is more "accidental" from a malfuntion, like the time I was working on a DC Generator and the disconnected power bus bar fell and accidently completed the power circuit (as in a short circuit) when the ship took an unanticipatedly large roll... sparks flew!
The Truth is Out There... yep. You won't get it from any Government Agency Report though. They must cover their *sses. @@
\\Gee, what POSSIBLY could have set them off? Perhaps a CIA inspired Coup? Action - Reaction. Physics.
/Hah???
So that was CIA snipers??? That started killing people on Maidan??? %-)))
What is that -- some Hollywood blockbuster????
US State Department (aka CIA) didn't cater the events with coffee and donuts? Didn't employ any PsyOps to encourage the protests? Didn't pay for busses? Hmmmm....
\\https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Wilkes_Booth
/Was he supported by foreign secret services???
To succeed. ;-P
Well... I know that Oswald. ;-)
Who knows? He died in a fire during an attempt at capture. perhaps we should ask Mary Surratt. Oh wait, she's dead, too.
\\Molon labe!
/Shields do not help against... what Mexicans like to use???
Bolos?
Takos?
Uhm... I'm out of Mexica-related prejudges. Oups! ;-P
Try "machete's". Bolos come from further South. And Spartans fought with shield? I thought they used them as stretchers for the dead... ἢ τὰν ἢ ἐπὶ τᾶς
\\Extra-judicial justice isn't justice. And if it involves exchanges of artillery, it's easy to believe that it's gone beyond "justice"
/WHAT artillery??? %-)))))
They was distrusted by government, you remember?
Or... that is still that same sublime "they ALL are nazis".
So what sounds were the OSCE Observers recording in their reports? Firecrackers?
\\ I do, therefore, condemn the OSCE Observers who stood by and allowed it to happen. oh, they "reported" it. Bulls have tits, too.
/OSCE exist on donations. From RFia too.
And lots members of it... from RFia too.
Well... that same game "big nations" like to play with those who are smaller.
Yes, like UN Peacekeepers. How'd THAT work out for the world in Gaza (since 1948). All it does it make the boxers wear gloves.
\\Russians OR Eastern Ukrainians
/There is NO any "Eastern Ukrainians"
RFia itself ABOISHED that notion.
When started calling em... just "same as any other Russians/RFians".
Same pre-destined to die for Mother Russia -- well, that is ONE and ONLY definite trait of being Russian.
And that's why RFia IS Empire... even if deficient. Because it KNOW how to treat people as empire should.
And USA -- are not. ;-P
Sounds like you're half way to a peace settlement. You're acknowledging that the Donbass and Luhansk (and 2 other Ukrainian provinces) have already been lost.
\\That's why, like the Aussies, (and Canadiens, eh) we sound NOTHING alike. :)
/Yeah... you not parts of one empire anymore.
They are, though. They still put the King on their coins.
\\The same would happen in Ukraine, were Ukraine to prevail in the current conflict. Many Mohawks and other Iroquois were resettled on Canadian Reservations.
/Oh... it will be even MOAR hairy... I prophess.
Even you... can come and became Ukrainian. (well, I know, seen such people myself)
I expect most would become actual Russians (or Americans), since the Azov's would be back to exact "revenge" (as they had started in 2014).
\\Simferopol... Euronews is a Russia propaganda outlet?
/And that was THIER OWN report and reporters???
Or... they just TOOK, and translated some ready made materials? ;-)
You're right, most "news" these days consists of selectively leaked and politically partial tidbits from Intelligence Agencies, US et al. "Reporters" should rename themselves "Transponders" in the interest of full disclosure.
Gen. William Tecumsah Sherman - "If I had my choice I would kill every reporter in the world, but I am sure we would be getting reports from Hell before breakfast."...“The American press is a shame and a reproach to a civilized people. When a man is too lazy to work and too cowardly to steal, he becomes an editor and manufactures public opinion.”
\\Do I need to pull out the voting maps again?
/If you'd find a way to demonstrate why they matter/what they mean.
If you don't already know that, you really must be enamored with your current leadership. When's the "next Ukrainian vote" again? After the "victory parade"?
\\\\and is also home to Russia's Black Sea naval fleet, based at Sevastopol.
/Yeah.
Doesn't ring a bell??? Still???
\\In February and March 2014, Russia invaded the Crimean Peninsula, part of Ukraine, and then annexed it. This took place in the relative power vacuum immediately following the Revolution of Dignity. (aka - Maidan coup) Can you conduct a coup and then overturn it in a region and then claim that you are the victims of the over-turning again? You can, but the credibility goes down, and down, and down...
/???
But it looks like you just tried to prove my point. ;-)
Treaties signed after Ukraine gained independence from USSR/ Russia don't ring bells for you? After the US enters the war (G_d forbid), where do you think OUR naval base will be?
\\Yep. Few un-hyphenated Americans speak anything but English today. But it's less and less a percentage every year. Can you tell when the economic globalism started?
/Ehm???
Try the 1980's (Reagan/ Thatcher).
\\True, but it does point to "economic interests".
/Whose???
RFia's "oligarchs"(totally misleading name, because they are neither independent as one nor they have ANY political mobility of their own) -- to conqure neighbor country to make its riches own????
You don't have an economic interest? Who stole all those European "Aid" packages after Maidan? Where did that $1b that Joe Biden paid for his son's investigation to be dropped go?
\\Why do you think there are so many successful Chinese Intel Ops in USA today? It's a shame that they're not Black. They'd be running the entire DOD and USIC today.
:-)))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))
Well... you are NOT that far from Ukraine... as you like to think, it seems. ;-)
\\Antifa doesn't exist. Just ask the MSM.
Har-Har-har...
\\you won't shake the "Nazi" stink.
BS accusations?
Yeah... it stinks, at all times... ;-P
\\the "history" of Azov units would still perfume the entire force, and linger.
WHAT history???
History of BS propaganda spread by liliPut's useful idiots???
\\Battalion vs. Regiment
Ah... well... sorry.
I more accustomed with soviet army structure. Which based around triples.
Smallest detachment is of 10 people (fit in soviet BMP) + 1 leutenant.
Then nest one platoon? squadron? out of 3 detachments -- 33 + 1 commander.
100 + 1
Battalion is where it starts to break that streamlined structure. (especially with advent of western style battalion tactical groups)
it really consist out of base 3x of previous elements.
But... also have additional detachments (medics, recon... and etc)
3x of battalions form regiment... ADD some other structures.
And 3x regiments form division.
Something like that...
So. "Battalion" in this part of the world... it's, just a first INDIVIDUAL military unit. To be ordered to take his place on a front-line.
Historically ancestral to a "hundreds" (or Romans "maniples").
That's why it called "volunteer battalions".
\\Bigger Army, more units. In 1944, the Wehrmacht was 9.42 million men.
And in current Russia-Ukraine war it ALREADY million VS million army war.
Nothing... you have fought in ages.
Yawn.
And only ONE reason it stopped on that numbers -- RFia just have NOT enough armored vehicles and weapon to sustain bigger number...
but, don't be fooled by it -- liliPut preparing ground for MORE fool-scale... brawl.
\\ In early 1944 the Waffen-SS made up less than 5 percent of the Wehrmacht, but it accounted for nearly one-fourth of Germany’s panzer divisions and roughly one-third of the Wehrmacht’s panzer grenadier (mechanized infantry) divisions.
Yeah.
And "Ukrainian nazis" NOT provided with anything past basic AK and rations.
And some scrap metal donated to em or trophies they was able snatch in battle.
That is... because that "Ukrainian nazis" are MUCH MORe fierce and devastating, isn't it? And must be contained at all cost? Yes??? :-)))))))))))))))))))
\\The regiment's (Azov) size was estimated to be around 2,500 combatants in 2017,[3] and around 900 in 2022.
Yeah. ;-P
Volunteers...
Oh...
Revelation came on me -- THAT IS... must be the reason they are so feared.
State Power -- distrust and even fears... volunteers. ;-P
Meh.
\\Most of the unit's members are Russian speakers from Russian-speaking regions of Ukraine.
Yeah... nazis.
*Ukrainian* NAZIs.
And not just enraged individuals, who rised against enemy that can and ruined their lifes. ;-P
\\ It also includes members from other countries.
Plus... some volunteers. Like your Hemingway.. in Spain. ;-)
But well, Hemingway probably are nazi... by your modern standards.
\\"Do you think ME ignorant about Nazism?"
Given how that word used in modern World setup...
\\Read the tables. It's all there. Much seems written so as to be purposely as vague as possible. Apparently their bosses didn't want to know ALL the gnitty-gritties. It might have forced them to "act" instead of merely watch/ listen.
Dunno.
What YOU see there???
As for me... it all in accordance with their role and methods.
Obviously -- they was NOT allowed to be present in actual trenches. Not in time when some shutting planned. Or some projectiles incoming.
That is -- beyond their reach.
So... they are basicly worked as laymen. That more or less honestly accounted what they heard.
Do you think they was CONCOCTING data in that tables???
Like hearing shuts from RFia side of front-line... and then, nearly immediately (delayed by time needed for shell to fly from here to there)... impacts on Ukraine side????
And NEITHER... of such, from Ukrainian side.
Can there be MORE OBJECTIVE and no-side evidances????
Well.
Actually.
There IS.
You just can take a look at Google Maps -- to spot which side of front-line... are all in craters from incoming shells. As face of one who survived severe misles
And which are... in fully open to observation network of trenches.
\\...coming to the negotiating table???? Isn't THAT the 1st step???
While you cities will be leveled to a ground by devastating bombing?
Is that negotiations... or outright admitting defeat and begging for a mercy... from UNmerciful foe??????
Well... why you NOT started negotiations with bin Laden then?
\\\\Because the accords were signed merely a veil intended as a temporary measure .
/And from where you received such an UTTER BS????
NATO membership STill "only promiced" and far-far-away from being "secured".
Even today.
\\I give up. Soviet propaganda?
Don't you think that upper claim "until NATO membership could be secured" AND "Minsk agreement served to buy time to rearm Ukraine" -- are NOT exactly one and the same in meaning. Ehm???
\\\\Why refuse to negotiate unless the break were "intentional"?
/Negotiate???
With whom??? And about WHAT????
\\Ask Zelensky.
Yeah.
After Bucha.
Which... just the same as last year 7th of October in Israel -- showed TRUE face of a Enemy.
So... do you REALLY propose to Isreal and Ukraine that idea... Palestinians/HAMAS tried to proliferate with.
Like "we killed 1000 of your people, and you killed 10.000 of ours... so, let's declare it EVEN... and initiate ceasefire"?????????
Would USA agree... with such terms???
\\As McCain and Graham's comments back in 2016/7 calling for Ukraine soldiers to go "on the offensive" used to be all over the internet, but conveniently go missing today.
Hah...
it's easy to give unsolicited suggestions... while you are NOt on that ring yourself. ;-P
/From that same page
""
Sloviansk
Main article: Siege of Sloviansk
Pro-Russian insurgents occupying the Sloviansk city administration building, 14 April 2014
On 12 April, the strategic town of Sloviansk was captured by a fifty-strong unit of heavily-armed pro-Russian militants.[71] They attacked and occupied the town's administration building, police station, and SBU building, and set up roadblocks with the help of local armed activists.[71][90] The unit were Russian Armed Forces 'volunteers' under the command of Russian GRU colonel Igor Girkin ('Strelkov').[71][91] They had been sent from Russian-occupied Crimea and wore no insignia.[71]
""
STILL doesn't ring a bell???
GRU means Military SpecOps. Like your Seals.
IF your USA seals... would be spotted in some other country... well, let's take some close-culture one for further similarity...
Like in Longon. Or Ottawa. Blocking government buildings. Under pre-text of some "civil war".
Would it REALLY be counted as Civil War? ;-P
Who'd they fool with it? For how long???
Well... some Malasians, would be sure that that was REALLY just some Civil War.
Especially if China channels would be telling em about it.
CIA sent you no "military advisors," weapons, $$$ during Maidan? Cheap b*stards! Not even people like the cowardly Vindman brothers to blend in?
/That's how Propaganda, and Misinformation, and first of all OWN Human's Ignorance works. ;-P
...and telling "half" the story (carefully selected facts) in every major newspaper outlet.
/"
"
Girkin said that this action sparked the Donbas War. He said "I'm the one who pulled the trigger of war. If our unit hadn't crossed the border, everything would have fizzled out, like in Kharkiv, like in Odesa".[92][93] He explained that "nobody there wanted to fight" until his unit seized Sloviansk.[94]
"
"
So much for "civil war"... that was SO OBVIOUS... if just look at elections maps. ;-P
"They started it!" ...and everything that happened before they fired on Fort Sumter was forgotten.... It was all done "in the name of slavery" or to "free the slaves". @@
\\It was reported on 12 May that, following the local autonomy referendum, the Donbas People's Militia leader Igor Girkin declared himself "Supreme Commander" of the Donetsk People's Republic. In his decree, he demanded that all military stationed in the region swear an oath of allegiance to him within 48 hours, and said that all remaining Ukrainian military in the region would be "destroyed on the spot".
/Yeah... without any backup??? Such a bold claims POSSIBLE???
Or... it is surely possible -- when you are emissary of foreign country... that holding ready intervention forces, just across the border???
The Ukrainians had no American guarantees? Sounds pretty reckless of them. So how was the American ambassador or that State Dept. b*tch Victoria Nuland? able to select the leaders for government offices to replace the fleeing President? I can do this all day, Q.
/"
"
A CNN investigation found clear evidence that the attack came from the air and the pattern of the craters suggested use of standard equipment on the Su-25, a ground-attack fighter, and the Su-27 – both combat aircraft operated by Ukraine.[191] Radio Liberty also concluded that "Despite Denials, All Evidence For Deadly Explosion Points To Kyiv".[194] CNN said that it was the first time that civilians had been killed in an attack by the Ukrainian air force during the 2014 pro-Russian unrest in the Donbas.[191] The next day, Luhansk People's Republic declared a three-day mourning in the city.[195]
"
"
/And as always... THAT CNN truth-telling reporters. ;-P
And that info is usually selectively leaked by "regular sources" to CNN by CIA contacts (their regular sources).
/"
"
Russian tank incursion
Ukrainian officials said that Russia had allowed tanks to cross the Russo-Ukrainian border into Donetsk Oblast on 11 June. Internal Affairs Minister Arsen Avakov said "we have observed columns passing with armoured personnel carriers, other armoured vehicles and artillery pieces, and tanks which, according to our information, came across the border and this morning were in Snizhne". He continued by saying Ukrainian forces had destroyed part of the column, and that fighting was still under way. Reuters correspondents confirmed the presence of three tanks in Donetsk city, and the US State Department's Bureau of Intelligence and Research also said that Russia had indeed sent tanks, along with other heavy weapons, to the separatists in Ukraine.[204]
"
"
/STILL... "just a civil war"?????
OBVIOUSLY SEEN from elections maps????
No, a "coup" regularly seen in US State Department signals and Russian intercepts of Victoria Nuland phonecons. Why do you think that they hate Julian Assange so much?
"
"
The weapons sent are said to have included: a column of three T-64 tanks, several BM-21 Grad multiple rocket launchers, and other military vehicles. "Russia will claim these tanks were taken from Ukrainian forces, but no Ukrainian tank units have been operating in that area," the State Department said in a statement. "We are confident that these tanks came from Russia."[205] The newly Selected Ukrainian president Petro Poroshenko said that it was "unacceptable" for tanks to cross into Ukraine. Russia called the reports "another fake piece of information."[206] Nevertheless, the three tanks were later spotted moving through Makiivka and Torez, flying the flag of the Russian Federation.[207] Insurgents confirmed that they had obtained three tanks, but leaders refused to elaborate on how they acquired them; one militant told reporters that they originated "from a military warehouse".[208]
"
"
I'm supposed to be suprised to learn that Russians were helping the "coup separatists" and believe that Americans weren't helping the "coup loyalists"?????
/But... "that is civil war"... SURE AS DAY!
Perhaps the Ukrainians should step aside and let America and Russia go at it directly? But then you should also ask yourself, "What would the American people think if they knew the truth and weren't inundated in USIC and Big-Tech enforced propaganda?" Think they'd be FOR or AGAINST continuing the conflict? I'm betting, the latter. Which is why support for Ukraine will end in January of 2025.
/"
"
After a brief lull following the insurgent withdrawal from the northern part of Donetsk Oblast, fighting continued to escalate sharply in the eastern parts of Donetsk Oblast. Shells landed on the border town of Donetsk in Rostov Oblast, a part of Russia, on 13 July.[253] One civilian was killed in the shelling. Russian officials blamed the Armed Forces of Ukraine for the shelling, whilst Ukraine denied responsibility and accused insurgents in the Donbas of having staged a false flag attack.[254] Russia said it was considering launching airstrikes against government targets in Ukraine as retaliation for the shelling.[255]
"
"
Ever hear of the "Gulf of Tonkin Incident"? Casus Belli are the most faked and over-hyped events in history.
/Those nasty Ukrainian nazis DID IT.
FER SURE!
What made the lie "plausible" then?
/AND.
Classics!
"
"
Downing of Malaysia Airlines Flight 17
Main article: Malaysia Airlines Flight 17
On 17 July 2014, DPR forces shot down a civilian passenger jet, Malaysia Airlines Flight 17 over Hrabove (a village in the Donetsk Oblask), killing all 298 people on board. This disaster followed two similar incidents earlier in the week, when two Ukrainian Air Force planes were shot down.[261]
DPR-affiliated insurgents blamed the Ukrainian government for the disaster, whereas the government, Netherlands, and Australia blamed Russia and the insurgents.[262][263] The responsibility for investigation was delegated to the Dutch Safety Board (DSB) and the Dutch-led joint investigation team (JIT), who concluded that the airliner was downed by a Buk surface-to-air missile launched from pro-Russian separatist-controlled territory in Ukraine.[264][265] According to the JIT, the Buk that was used originated from the 53rd Anti-Aircraft Missile Brigade of the Russian Federation,[266][267] and had been transported from Russia on the day of the crash, fired from a field in a separatist-controlled area, and the launcher returned to Russia after it was used to shoot down MH17.[268][266][269]
On the basis of the JIT's conclusions, the governments of the Netherlands and Australia held Russia responsible for the deployment of the Buk installation and took steps to hold Russia formally accountable.[262][263]
"
"
...and other "classics" involving Ukrainian founded CrowdStrike... who verified the "Fancybear" hack of DNC servers, yet never turned them over to FBI for investigation leading to the charges against Julian Asange AND the entire "Trump-Russia" faked American political system PsyOp.
/And... there is COURT JUDGMENT about it.
But.
It STILL... just a "civil war".
FER SURE!!!
And there are the Mueller Reports and the Durham Reports that expose FBI and CIA shenanigans to rig the American elections for the rest of all time. When Trump is convicted in one of the upcoming 4 rigged trials, do you think that the "Court Judgements" will lead me to "The Truth" with a capital "T"?
The "oligarchs" have taken over America. And Americans are beginning to respond. Perhaps this is something you can identify with in Ukraine.
/"
"
DPR commander Igor Girkin also said "The time has come when Russia must take a final decision – to really support Donbas's Russians or abandon them forever".
"
"
What???
"Civil war"... ended???
Sounds like he was right, and Putin decided, finally, in 2022 once Azov got "carried away" and he could no longer ignore it.
/"
"
According to a report by National Security and Defence Council of Ukraine, crossing points on the border with Russia were attacked from Russian territory at least 153 times since 5 June.[305] 27 border guardsmen were killed in these attacks, and 185 were injured.
"
"
Naturally... because that is "civil war".
...or "proxy war" with both "foreign" sides goading Ukrainians on, exacerbating Ukrainian differences and exploiting their dreams with "RICE".
/"
"
Following a series of military defeats, Igor Girkin, insurgent commander for the DPR, urged Russian military intervention, and said that the combat inexperience of his irregular forces, along with recruitment difficulties amongst the local population in Donetsk Oblast had caused the setbacks. He addressed Russian president Vladimir Putin, saying that "Losing this war on the territory that President Vladimir Putin personally named New Russia would threaten the Kremlin's power and, personally, the power of the president".[311] Government forces closed in on Luhansk and Donetsk cities on 3 August.[312]
"
"
So much for "civil war" and "supreme leader" of "independent republic".
I think I already pointed out the proxy-war/ civil-war connections.
/"
"
By 9 August, insurgent commander Igor Girkin said that Donetsk had been "completely encircled" by government forces.
"
"
/"
"
Overnight and into 10 August, government forces launched an artillery barrage on Donetsk city.[326] According to a spokesman for the Armed Forces, insurgents began to flee the city during the barrage, and were in a state of "panic and chaos".
During this artillery barrage, Igor Girkin resigned from his post as commander of the insurgent forces of the Donetsk People's Republic.
"
"
/Supreme Leader... my ass.
Yes, Victoria Nuland's choices were SO much better. ;)
/"
"
Girkin's resignation, along with the 7 August resignation of DPR prime minister Alexander Borodai (who was replaced by Alexander Zakharchenko), represented a shift in the nature of the conflict. Given the recent military failings of the DPR and the LPR, Russia decided that it could no longer rely on a patchwork of irregular fighters in the Donbas, and ordered a change in leadership.[331] It abandoned the separatist project, and replaced it with the idea of federalisation of Donbas within Ukraine. To effect this change, it would soon switch gears from hybrid warfare to conventional warfare.[332]
"
"
!!!!!!!!!!!
So much later than the Maidan coup. WHAT a surprise! The pro-Russia side still needed more "organization" and "coordination" with their ally, Russia. So when had CIA training and overhauling of Ukrainian Intelligence Services begun? Much BEFORE this happened, I'm sure. Yep, February of 2014 six months BEFORE this happened. So which side showed the best "initiative" in that 6 month period, Russia or America? Which country formed the "vanguard"?
/"
"
August 2014 invasion by Russian forces
Main articles: Battle of Ilovaisk and Battle of Novoazovsk
Further information: Russo-Ukrainian War
A June–August 2014 map of insurgent-held areas
Ukrainian troops guarding a road in the Donbas, August 2014
On 14 August, a convoy of some two dozen armoured personnel carriers and other vehicles with official Russian military plates crossed into Ukraine near the insurgent-controlled Izvaryne border crossing.[333][334] NATO Secretary General Anders Fogh Rasmussen confirmed that a "Russian incursion" into Ukraine had occurred.[335]
"
"
YEAH!!!! CIVIL WAR... IT IS!!!!!!
Yes, Civil War as part of Proxy War. CIA PsyOps aren't perfect.
\\US Civil War? 650,000 dead. Maybe you're not there yet?
/Remind to me... how many USAians died in ww2?
Forgive me... I have a bad memory... for such a small insignificant numbers. %-)
And how man in whole World -- Europe first of all?
My Uncle Hank was one. But then, he died in the Pacific, so I expect he wouldn't count.
\\As I can from USA... like: Columbus, Washington, Trump. ;-P
\\Nope. Zelinsky's about as deep as I care to go nowadays...
/Yap.
THAT'S IT.
That's why your overview is SO oversimplifying.
...and why yours OMITS all reference to CIA/USIC involvement (as well as that of many NATO Intelligence Communities) and the broader "global" picture. As Klaus Schwab at the WEF so aptly put it, "The Great Reset. It's time for the peasants to start to eat the bugs!"
\\...and, they reflect the same political divisions vote after vote (much like USA with a few "swing states").
/Why not?
What's the problem?
Division/diversity/heterogeneity -- that's what makes this World ticking. ;-P
Like Yin and Yang. ;-)
As Napoleon famously said, "Attack at the Angles!" much as Pickett did for the Copse of Trees at Gettysburg. Places where forces have "weak-links" like where regulars join with militia forces. They'll retreat in different directions, and you'll have the better option of the two exposed flanks to exploit. Ukraines "angles"? Refer to the election map. Divide and Conquer.
\\Do you know what the US Army is? What a National Guard is? State Militia? Differences?
/Well... about that... MUCH MORe than you about "Donetsk Militia" and "Separatists Units". ;-P
No doubt. But the general principles are much the same everywhere.
\\ And when a war did ever break out, how many Robert E. Lee's would defect from the "Union Army" units to State (ie - Virginia) units?
/And how many wirehouses with war-time stuff they'll would able to control.
To have ammo and rations for every day for everyone... for at least. ;-P
Profanes talk about "strategy". Profis... about Logistics.
Hence the attack on Fort Sumter, which served as casus belli for the Union cause. btw - Planes are extremely "mobile" and can land almost "anywhere". Ammunition dumps are much trickier, but often "lightly defended". There's even an armoury in my local town, as well as an "arsenal" APGEA nearby. Anywone remember John Brown's slave revolt? That was just across the river from Maryland (WV). Our local area is chock-filled with guns/bombs and their producers. Even for producing nasty "chemical" and "neurological" agents.
\\As for money, all you need to do is "print" it (ie - Confederate dollars). We still don't have a CBDC (although they're pushing for it). Got BitCoin? How about gold-silver?
/You can study about what problems got RFia today... and Iran before.
And they... spend a LONG time to prepare for that... and/or mitigate that problems.
And still... perform quite poorly.
Ever hear of Army "script"?
\\Can't? It's all been done before.
Naaah.
Not in CURRENT economy.
What will happen with Bay Area for example... if logistics STOP non-stop replenishing supermarkets shelves????
Who cares? That would be "enemy territory". And Republicans would not be reliant upon "urban" support, anyways. That would be the Democrat's problem, as Republican "lines" would occupy the inter-connected interiors :)
\\Tell that to IDF in Gaza.
/Hah???
To make it more like in Bible? ;-P
Exodus? Part the Sea and Palestinians re-enter Egypt? :))))))))))
\\How many times have Ukrainians invaded Donbass? Luhansk?
/Ehm????
What do you mean under that "invaded"?????
How many time USA army invaded... New York??? Or Chicago???
What's the question is this????
Wasn't there an "accord" signed? When Lee invaded Antietam (MD) and Gettysburg (PA) after Virginia's secession, it wasn't an invasion? You're begining to sound like Dervy, falling back on 'semantics'. Col. Mosby (The Grey Ghost), welcome to Harford County, MD!
\\ It was a "civil" war. As it was in Mariupol.
/You can call it... whatever you like.
Words... is just a Stick It stickers.
Especially when that is words of a foreign language.
Mariupol is Russia now? Who knew? Or are you still in denial?
/"
"
The Russian military confirmed that these men were Russian paratroopers and that they had been captured. The Russian Defence Ministry said the men had entered Ukraine "by mistake during an exercise".[355][356] The Security Service of Ukraine (SBU) released videos that they said were interviews with the captive Russian soldiers. In one of the videos, a soldier said that their commanders had sent them on a 70-kilometre (43+1⁄2 mi) march "without explaining its purpose or warning that they would be in Ukrainian territory, where they were apprehended by Ukrainian forces and surrendered without a fight".[357]
"
"
And there were NO CIA trainers and advisors with Ukrainian forces. Oh, MY!
/Narrative... that became VERY popular since that time...
Pushed by... who?
/"
"
January 2017 eruption of heavy fighting and failed ceasefires
A view from a Ukrainian Armed Forces support point near Pisky, January 2017
2016 was the first full calendar year of the conflict in which Ukraine lost no territories to pro-Russian forces.[471] In addition, both the Ukrainian Armed Forces (211 combat losses and 256 non-combat losses) and the local populace (13 in Ukrainian government-controlled areas) suffered significantly less casualties than in 2015.[471] The new year, however, brought a new eruption of heavy fighting, starting on 29 January 2017, centred on the Ukrainian-controlled city of Avdiivka.[472]
On 18 February 2017, Russian president Vladimir Putin signed a decree whereby the Russian authorities would recognise personal and vehicle-registration documents issued by the DPR and LPR.[473] The presidential decree referred to "permanent residents of certain areas of Ukraine's Donetsk and Luhansk Oblasts", without any mention of the self-proclaimed People's Republics.[474] Ukrainian authorities decried the decree as being directly contradictory to the Minsk II agreement and that it "legally recognised the quasi-state terrorist groups which cover Russia's occupation of part of Donbas."[475] Secretary General of the Organization for Security and Co-operation in Europe (OSCE) Lamberto Zannier stated on 19 February the decree "implies...recognition of those who issue the documents, of course" and that it would make it more difficult to hold a ceasefire.[476]
"
"
...and the Minsk Accords hadn't been signed? And the CIA hadn't re-organized the Ukrainian Intelligence Services? And John McCain and Linsey Graham didn't "chat with Ukrainian forces" promising them everything in America's war arsenals? And the US wasn't funding biolabs? etc., etc,., etc.
/AGAIN! That nasty Ukrainian nazis provoked fights... and stalled Minsk Treaty.
AGAIN! Those nasty American CIA and British MI-6 agents were absent and taking a completely "Hands-Off" position throughout the conflict. No Ukrainians were being trained in NATO facilities around the globe....
/"
"
A September 2014 International Republican Institute poll of the Ukrainian public (excluding those in Russian-annexed Crimea) had 89% of respondents opposing Russian intervention in Ukraine.[644] As broken down by region, 78% of those polled from Eastern Ukraine (including Dnipropetrovsk Oblast) opposed the intervention, along with 89% in Southern Ukraine, 93% in Central Ukraine, and 99% in Western Ukraine.[644] As broken down by native language, 79% of Russian speakers and 95% of Ukrainian speakers opposed the intervention. 80% of those polled said that Ukraine should remain a unitary country.[644]
"
"
LOL! The "impartial" International Republican Institute... home the Neocons, allies of the Forever-War UniParty. Former Senator John McCain, CHAIRMAN. Now where are the Youtubes of McCain and Lindsay doing their "impartial polling" inside Ukrainian military units?
\\...said Louis XVI standing in the tumbrel.
/Maybe I was wrong, and this was example CONFIRMING my words?
More like "Mocking".
\\Why do you think there are so many successful Chinese Intel Ops in USA today? It's a shame that they're not Black. They'd be running the entire DOD and USIC today.
/:-)))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))
Well... you are NOT that far from Ukraine... as you like to think, it seems. ;-)
As we began to discover in 2016 the enormous extent to which our nation has been captured by bureaucratic 'experts' possessing morally hazardous "1st world global elite" values
\\Antifa doesn't exist. Just ask the MSM.
/Har-Har-har...
...just like their 1865 predecessors, the Invisible Army's "Knights of the KKK".
\\you won't shake the "Nazi" stink.
/BS accusations?
Yeah... it stinks, at all times... ;-P
Inescapable.
\\the "history" of Azov units would still perfume the entire force, and linger.
/WHAT history???
History of BS propaganda spread by liliPut's useful idiots???
The ones in the Aryan symbols adopted by the battalion, which made the propaganda "easier" to schmere. You really need a band like Ramsteinn or Laibach to de-stigmatize them next time BEFORE adopting. Else, they "stink". But why listen to me. I'm just a stupid American.
\\Battalion vs. Regiment
/Ah... well... sorry.
I more accustomed with soviet army structure. Which based around triples.
Smallest detachment is of 10 people (fit in soviet BMP) + 1 leutenant.
Then nest one platoon? squadron? out of 3 detachments -- 33 + 1 commander.
100 + 1
Battalion is where it starts to break that streamlined structure. (especially with advent of western style battalion tactical groups)
it really consist out of base 3x of previous elements.
But... also have additional detachments (medics, recon... and etc)
3x of battalions form regiment... ADD some other structures.
And 3x regiments form division.
Something like that...
So. "Battalion" in this part of the world... it's, just a first INDIVIDUAL military unit. To be ordered to take his place on a front-line.
Historically ancestral to a "hundreds" (or Romans "maniples").
That's why it called "volunteer battalions".
...and I am more accustomed to the unit sizes at my college (of about 1,200 students). A Regiment of Midshipmen (aka "military logistics")
\\Bigger Army, more units. In 1944, the Wehrmacht was 9.42 million men.
/And in current Russia-Ukraine war it ALREADY million VS million army war.
Nothing... you have fought in ages.
Yawn.
And only ONE reason it stopped on that numbers -- RFia just have NOT enough armored vehicles and weapon to sustain bigger number...
but, don't be fooled by it -- liliPut preparing ground for MORE fool-scale... brawl.
And why not? You've already forced him to re-tool his economy.
\\ In early 1944 the Waffen-SS made up less than 5 percent of the Wehrmacht, but it accounted for nearly one-fourth of Germany’s panzer divisions and roughly one-third of the Wehrmacht’s panzer grenadier (mechanized infantry) divisions.
/Yeah.
And "Ukrainian nazis" NOT provided with anything past basic AK and rations.
And some scrap metal donated to em or trophies they was able snatch in battle.
That is... because that "Ukrainian nazis" are MUCH MORe fierce and devastating, isn't it? And must be contained at all cost? Yes??? :-)))))))))))))))))))
Damn! You eschew the "Nazi" label almost as much as a Southern Democrat eschews the "racist" one. Get used to it. It get's less painful with each hyperbolius use, until it eventually pushes through to the otherside through its' misuse and proves it's 'user' the ridiculous fool.
\\The regiment's (Azov) size was estimated to be around 2,500 combatants in 2017,[3] and around 900 in 2022.
/Yeah. ;-P
Volunteers...
Oh...
Revelation came on me -- THAT IS... must be the reason they are so feared.
State Power -- distrust and even fears... volunteers. ;-P
Meh.
Like I said before, my "Regiment" was only 1,200, with 3 Battalions each of 2 Companies, each of 3 Platoons (our smallest unit formation). I was a "platoon commander" during the 3rd officer rotation and a "zombo" (one-striper) for the other two. They did carry cool swords (instead of plugged rifles). ;)
\\Most of the unit's members are Russian speakers from Russian-speaking regions of Ukraine.
/Yeah... nazis.
*Ukrainian* NAZIs.
And not just enraged individuals, who rised against enemy that can and ruined their lifes. ;-P
Hey, the CIA LOVES Ukrainian Nazi's. They always made the best spies against the Kremlin. They spoke Russian, and were committed as f*ck to taking the Russians down during WWII and post-war.
\\ It also includes members from other countries.
/Plus... some volunteers. Like your Hemingway.. in Spain. ;-)
But well, Hemingway probably are nazi... by your modern standards.
Naaah. Commie scum. Franco was the Fascist. We played along with him after the war. I spent 3 1/2 years in Madrid (through kindergarten). ;)
\\"Do you think ME ignorant about Nazism?"
/Given how that word used in modern World setup...
Given I was born on a SAC base in Massachusetts. My father joined the USAF right after the war at age 17, then did another 25 years while my mother worked in the US embassies in the countries he was stationed in and I was left in the care of Spanish speaking maids? And for "fun" (desperate to hear the English language) I would watch all the military training films that got flown in on our C-47? I'd say few people outside of the American military and diplomatic corp received that kind of upbringing.
\\Read the tables. It's all there. Much seems written so as to be purposely as vague as possible. Apparently their bosses didn't want to know ALL the gnitty-gritties. It might have forced them to "act" instead of merely watch/ listen.
/Dunno.
What YOU see there???
As for me... it all in accordance with their role and methods.
Obviously -- they was NOT allowed to be present in actual trenches. Not in time when some shutting planned. Or some projectiles incoming.
That is -- beyond their reach.
So... they are basicly worked as laymen. That more or less honestly accounted what they heard.
Do you think they was CONCOCTING data in that tables???
Like hearing shuts from RFia side of front-line... and then, nearly immediately (delayed by time needed for shell to fly from here to there)... impacts on Ukraine side????
And please. I have enough experience to know what a government or military bureaucrat writes down and what he saves for bar-talk during leave periods.
Check the "notes" fields. The ones headed the other way can be found there.
And NEITHER... of such, from Ukrainian side.
Can there be MORE OBJECTIVE and no-side evidances????
Well.
Actually.
There IS.
You just can take a look at Google Maps -- to spot which side of front-line... are all in craters from incoming shells. As face of one who survived severe misles
And which are... in fully open to observation network of trenches.
I prefer the photo's of Ukrainian/ Donbass houses, half destroyed pre-invasion.
\\...coming to the negotiating table???? Isn't THAT the 1st step???
While you cities will be leveled to a ground by devastating bombing?
Is that negotiations... or outright admitting defeat and begging for a mercy... from UNmerciful foe??????
Well... why you NOT started negotiations with bin Laden then?
That's okay, I remember "Rolling Thunder" and "Linebaker II" that forced to Vietnamese to the Conference Table. As for bin laden, we couldn't find him. And I was AGAINST going into Afghanistan to kill him. It's what he INTENDED us to do. Bring the "Great Satan" to him, just like with the Russian invasion. Bring the enemy within al Qaeda's bullet/ jihadi training range.
\\\\Because the accords were signed merely a veil intended as a temporary measure .
/And from where you received such an UTTER BS????
NATO membership STill "only promiced" and far-far-away from being "secured".
Even today.
\\I give up. Soviet propaganda?
/Don't you think that upper claim "until NATO membership could be secured" AND "Minsk agreement served to buy time to rearm Ukraine" -- are NOT exactly one and the same in meaning. Ehm???
Perhaps the Brits, Poles, and American were more "ambitious" than Merkel and the more reluctant Germans.
\\\\Why refuse to negotiate unless the break were "intentional"?
/Negotiate???
With whom??? And about WHAT????
\\Ask Zelensky.
/Yeah.
After Bucha.
Which... just the same as last year 7th of October in Israel -- showed TRUE face of a Enemy.
So... do you REALLY propose to Isreal and Ukraine that idea... Palestinians/HAMAS tried to proliferate with.
Like "we killed 1000 of your people, and you killed 10.000 of ours... so, let's declare it EVEN... and initiate ceasefire"?????????
Would USA agree... with such terms???
Ask the South Vietnamese. Ask the fallen Afghan government. Ask all the people we've abandoned when "the going got tough".
\\As McCain and Graham's comments back in 2016/7 calling for Ukraine soldiers to go "on the offensive" used to be all over the internet, but conveniently go missing today.
/Hah...
it's easy to give unsolicited suggestions... while you are NOt on that ring yourself. ;-P
Isn't that was this conversation is about? Deciding how much "history" MiniTru still needs to "revise"?
\\Where'd that secret ledger come from to charge Manafort with? Oh yeah, Ukraine.
So... working as a ronin for a corrupt foreign government -- is O.K.????
And what you propose to do with Panama Papers??? Bomb out Panama? AGAIN????!! :-))))
And with that nasty journalists-investigators... as with Kashoggi? ;-P
\\ But then again, it's probably subject to a 50 Year "Secrecy" moratorium so as not to reveal the names of Intelligence Operatives involved.
Yeah... RFia's.
\\Sparks or Sparked is more "accidental" from a malfuntion
Yep.
EXACTLy what I tried to say.
Seems like I got some "feel of language", thank you.
NOBODY thought that beating some students... will grow in such a big issue.
Well... that is how it happens in this World.
Same as... how NOBODY thought that survival some miserly efreitor... would spark into such a big brawl...
\\US State Department (aka CIA) didn't cater the events with coffee and donuts?
So... they are catering organization? ;-P
\\ Didn't employ any PsyOps to encourage the protests? Didn't pay for busses? Hmmmm....
To create surge of prices on the market??? From all others who did that?
Like Pro-Russian forces, that was reported openly -- like people from that "Don-buss", who ADMITTED that they was PAYED and delivered to capital... to "counter-weight" protests. ;-P
\\Who knows? He died in a fire during an attempt at capture. perhaps we should ask Mary Surratt. Oh wait, she's dead, too.
RIGHT!
\\Try "machete's".
Like in... Machete movie? ;-P
\\So what sounds were the OSCE Observers recording in their reports? Firecrackers?
From a positions of "Ukrainian nazis"???
And I need to seek for em MYSELF???
To prove your point in your stead?
Eeeeeeh????
\\You're acknowledging that the Donbass and Luhansk (and 2 other Ukrainian provinces) have already been lost.
Yeah.
If due to "great help of America"... that territories will stay under control of RFia...
They already reduced to a HALF in population.
And with RFia's politics of nation cleansing (killing locals with diseases and harsh living environment... and taking part in war as conscripts... as well as banishing locals, exiling em to "mainland RFia" endless Syberia... stealing youth, to re-forge it into "Russian")...
What "Ukrainian" will remain on that land???????????????????
And you are PERFECTLY Ou'Key with it?
\\They are, though. They still put the King on their coins.
Oh, please... what they should place on em? Kangaroos???
As some banana republics. :-)))))))))))))))))))))))
\\I expect most would become actual Russians (or Americans), since the Azov's would be back to exact "revenge" (as they had started in 2014).
So... you are imperialist. ;-P
Well, like I care.
Yawn.
\\You're right, most "news" these days consists of selectively leaked and politically partial tidbits from Intelligence Agencies, US et al. "Reporters" should rename themselves "Transponders" in the interest of full disclosure.
And when it was any different???
\\\\Do I need to pull out the voting maps again?
/If you'd find a way to demonstrate why they matter/what they mean.
\\If you don't already know that, you really must be enamored with your current leadership. When's the "next Ukrainian vote" again? After the "victory parade"?
Ehm????
\\Treaties signed after Ukraine gained independence from USSR/ Russia don't ring bells for you?
Like treaty of Eternal Friendship and Honoring Borders??? ;-P
Or what??? "Great nations"... are free from honoring their own words, their own signed treaties????
Well... USA can try it. ;-P
Like I care.
Yawn.
\\After the US enters the war (G_d forbid), where do you think OUR naval base will be?
Well... do Hawaiians loathe having YOUR base on their territory???
What would be with em... if there'd be NO base????
Hint: you can re-read story of what Japs did with Philippinians.
\\\\Yep. Few un-hyphenated Americans speak anything but English today. But it's less and less a percentage every year. Can you tell when the economic globalism started?
/Ehm???
\\Try the 1980's (Reagan/ Thatcher).
Ehm???
How then Adam Smith was able to describe it? ;-P
Was he a Great Prophet???
\\You don't have an economic interest? Who stole all those European "Aid" packages after Maidan? Where did that $1b that Joe Biden paid for his son's investigation to be dropped go?
Ehm?????
Can we establish terms first????
What that "economic interests" mean?
\\CIA sent you no "military advisors," weapons, $$$ during Maidan?
Do you NOT see any difference???
Between "soft"/diplomatic involvement... and sending freaking Marines????
Like you did in Panama.
\\/That's how Propaganda, and Misinformation, and first of all OWN Human's Ignorance works. ;-P
\\...and telling "half" the story (carefully selected facts) in every major newspaper outlet.
Whatever.
You just not proficient with "reading in between lines". ;-P
\\"They started it!" ...and everything that happened before they fired on Fort Sumter was forgotten....
Yeah.
THAT IS... what RFia wanted achieve with all that howling about "Ukrainian nazis bombing innocent Don-buss". ;-P
Yawn.
Was they successful?
Well... with your mind they f**d well. No offense.
\\The Ukrainians had no American guarantees? Sounds pretty reckless of them.
Budapest Memo, no???
But... who'd knew that USA will be showing drowning in Uvalde Syndrome??? Who'd knew????
Who are THAT wise... in this mundane World????
Some tarot cards and wild guss flying future-tellers? ;-P
\\ I can do this all day, Q.
Yeah... you can re-chant old and burrishly boring, many-many times disproved, not based on ANY facts liliPut's Propaganda...
Well... like I care.
Yawn.
\\able to select the leaders for government offices to replace the fleeing President?
Can you state names of that "selected leaders"... for very least? ;-P
To give it at least some visibility of being "factual".
Looks like you trying to scary me with mere howling??? Do I look like scaredy craw to you? ;-P
\\I'm supposed to be suprised to learn that Russians were helping the "coup separatists" and believe that Americans weren't helping the "coup loyalists"?????
"Coup separatists" played by regular RFia SpecOps????
Well... it's natural to help YOUR man you sent under cover to foreign country, isn't it???
Or... USA policy is "that is not our people" and "we'll disenfranchise you, just on a whim" they say to em on their briefs???
Eeeeeeeeh??????????!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :-)))))))))))))))))))))))))))))
\\Perhaps the Ukrainians should step aside and let America and Russia go at it directly?
Commented ALREADY. ;-P
That "fierce" duel... from Twelfth Night. ;-P Classics!!!
Bu-ga-gah!!! :-))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))
\\Which is why support for Ukraine will end in January of 2025.
Don't like support Ukraine? Go prepare yourself to lick boots of Chinese. ;-P
Means... if you NoT brave enough... to partake in brawl -- that is ALL ABOUT USA and USA stance in the World.
On FAREST point outpost from your Heartland. Easiest. Most safe. Most advantageous.
HOW... you can brag about protecting yourself from a head-on DIRECT attacks?????
If you so DAMN scared ALREADY?????????
Or... you just waiting for a wake-up call? Pearl Harbor 2.0?
But...
YOUR enemies KNOW that about you -- and WILL try to postpone that wake-up calling... for as long as possible.
And INSTEAD... seek for a way to deliver swift and imminent FINISHING blow.
\\Ever hear of the "Gulf of Tonkin Incident"? Casus Belli are the most faked and over-hyped events in history.
Yap.
Prone on proving MY points? ;-P
\\What made the lie "plausible" then?
Howling of liliPut's Propaganda?
That spent $$$BILLIONS$$$ to slip through into Western MSM and social networks. To spread "truth" there.
That is... OPEN and FACTUAL info.
More than that -- they OPENLY and FLAMBOYANTLY bragging about is -- how they FOOLED stooopid Americans.
Well... they do it in Russian. In their native media. So... obviously... you DUNNO about it.
\\...and other "classics" involving Ukrainian founded CrowdStrike... who verified the "Fancybear" hack of DNC servers, yet never turned them over to FBI for investigation leading to the charges against Julian Asange AND the entire "Trump-Russia" faked American political system PsyOp.
Yawn.
Like I care.
Your INNER political issue.
\\And there are the Mueller Reports and the Durham Reports that expose FBI and CIA shenanigans to rig the American elections for the rest of all time. When Trump is convicted in one of the upcoming 4 rigged trials, do you think that the "Court Judgements" will lead me to "The Truth" with a capital "T"?
Same as above.
\\Sounds like he was right, and Putin decided, finally, in 2022 once Azov got "carried away" and he could no longer ignore it.
Yeah???? :-)))))))))))))))))
And what if that liliPut would FINNALY decide... that America meddling too much... and need to be cut short???? Of its too long nose? ;-P
Or... maybe you ready to facilitate liliPut with it? ;-P
\\...or "proxy war" with both "foreign" sides goading Ukrainians on, exacerbating Ukrainian differences and exploiting their dreams with "RICE".
Yawn.
History Laws Ignorance.
\\I think I already pointed out the proxy-war/ civil-war connections.
Yeah.
Proxy-war... to which USA did not come.
And still trying to respond "nobody's home" lame tactics.
Yawn.
\\Yes, Victoria Nuland's choices were SO much better. ;)
:-)))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))
That is ONLY response you will have to such SHALLOW as rain puddles taunts. ;-P
:-)))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))
I tried to answer em as being reasonable (while they are not), but now I will only laugh at em. Gotcaha??? ;-)
\\So much later than the Maidan coup. WHAT a surprise! The pro-Russia side still needed more "organization" and "coordination" with their ally, Russia.
Yeah... there was deeply entrenched and preparing for uprising "separatists"...
But. Somehow. They was NOT prepared. And needed Russians to do all work. ;-P
And American Revolution was all set up by France, yes???!!! ;-P
All that Franklins and Washingtons -- was just a Propaganda.
That is french SpecOps prepared and performed it. With mediation of Jews. ;-P
And CONTROL over USA government... in secret. Since. ;-P
See....
I can play such games TOO. :-))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))
\\Yes, Civil War as part of Proxy War. CIA PsyOps aren't perfect.
Yeah.
They are shitheads.
I agree with you. Allowed MAJOR enemies acts to slip past em.
\\My Uncle Hank was one. But then, he died in the Pacific, so I expect he wouldn't count.
Whatever suits you.
That is YOUR uncle, still.
\\...and why yours OMITS all reference to CIA/USIC involvement
From liliPut's Propaganda howling????
Isn't it PERFECTLY natural thing to do -- to ignore such outright lies???
\\Refer to the election map. Divide and Conquer.
So much for "civil war" narrative. Yawn.
\\No doubt. But the general principles are much the same everywhere.
:-)))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))
\\Planes are extremely "mobile" and can land almost "anywhere".
Yeah... like that recent russian strategic bomber... "landed" in the middle of a crop field.
But... will it be able to take off. ;-P
\\ Ammunition dumps are much trickier, but often "lightly defended".
And can cought fire and blow up same easily... just "by accident".
Bu-ga-gah!
\\Our local area is chock-filled with guns/bombs and their producers.
Which need RAW materials to operate. And that materials... need to be delivered... from China.
Oups!!! %-)))))
\\Who cares? That would be "enemy territory".
Yeah.
China's beachhead. ;-P
\\Exodus? Part the Sea and Palestinians re-enter Egypt? :))))))))))
:-))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))
But no. That MORE rarely cited parts of Bible. With outright genocide in it. ;-)
\\Wasn't there an "accord" signed? When Lee invaded Antietam (MD) and Gettysburg (PA) after Virginia's secession, it wasn't an invasion? You're begining to sound like Dervy, falling back on 'semantics'. Col. Mosby (The Grey Ghost), welcome to Harford County, MD!
Well...
History... is very different, through times.
So... direct comparations... not allowed. For any rational discussion.
It's more or less possible to compare ww1 with ww2... though, with lots of workarounds.
But... comparing 19th century wars... and 21st century ones???? Eeeeeh??????!!!!!
\\Mariupol is Russia now? Who knew? Or are you still in denial?
De jure?
\\And there were NO CIA trainers and advisors with Ukrainian forces. Oh, MY!
Know no such facts.
Can you refer to some? ;-P
\\/Narrative... that became VERY popular since that time...
\\Pushed by... who?
Pretty much by every Russian prisoner of war.
\\...and the Minsk Accords hadn't been signed? And the CIA hadn't re-organized the Ukrainian Intelligence Services? And John McCain and Linsey Graham didn't "chat with Ukrainian forces" promising them everything in America's war arsenals? And the US wasn't funding biolabs? etc., etc,., etc.
:-)))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))
\\No Ukrainians were being trained in NATO facilities around the globe....
Yep. Some cheap battlefield trainings. ;-P
Or... you say that they partaked in that 2.5 millions $$$ training, too? %-)))))))))))))))))))))
\\The ones in the Aryan symbols adopted by the battalion, which made the propaganda "easier" to schmere. You really need a band like Ramsteinn or Laibach to de-stigmatize them next time BEFORE adopting. Else, they "stink". But why listen to me. I'm just a stupid American.
Yeah.
How foolish was that Tibetians... adopting "Nazi symbol". ;-P
\\And why not? You've already forced him to re-tool his economy.
Yep.
And programs to make new types of weapon. Financial funds they stashed.
That's all "Ukraine DID IT".
And not because of their plans to take revenge over USA... for "biggest geopolitical catastrophe".
Yawn.
\\Damn! You eschew the "Nazi" label almost as much as a Southern Democrat eschews the "racist" one. Get used to it. It get's less painful with each hyperbolius use, until it eventually pushes through to the otherside through its' misuse and proves it's 'user' the ridiculous fool.
"Time tells no lies"... until it do.
Yawn.
\\Hey, the CIA LOVES Ukrainian Nazi's. They always made the best spies against the Kremlin. They spoke Russian, and were committed as f*ck to taking the Russians down during WWII and post-war.
Yap.
Legends.
Yawn.
\\But well, Hemingway probably are nazi... by your modern standards.
\\Naaah. Commie scum.
Ah... indeed. Erny was inter-brigadier. ;-P
Sorry.
But, see -- how easy it is, to make such historical flip-flops... about matters that are SO distant from your own self...
\\ I'd say few people outside of the American military and diplomatic corp received that kind of upbringing.
Yeah... but, we all unique.
To this or that extent.
\\Check the "notes" fields. The ones headed the other way can be found there.
Can you cite?
\\I prefer the photo's of Ukrainian/ Donbass houses, half destroyed pre-invasion.
Yeah. Lots of houses was destroyed by RFia military (regular or from "independent republics") before 24 of February.
\\Perhaps the Brits, Poles, and American were more "ambitious" than Merkel and the more reluctant Germans.
Perhaps....
\\Ask the South Vietnamese. Ask the fallen Afghan government. Ask all the people we've abandoned when "the going got tough".
Yawn.
\\Isn't that was this conversation is about? Deciding how much "history" MiniTru still needs to "revise"?
From your POV?
Yawn.
\\Where'd that secret ledger come from to charge Manafort with? Oh yeah, Ukraine.
/So... working as a ronin for a corrupt foreign government -- is O.K.????
And what you propose to do with Panama Papers??? Bomb out Panama? AGAIN????!! :-))))
And with that nasty journalists-investigators... as with Kashoggi? ;-P
US State Dept and CIA involvement in Ukraine started LONG before 2014. And yes, some people infiltrated the "opposition" parties as well. The problem is that in 2009, DoJ and State were "weaponized" under Hillary Clinton & Barack Obama. And they would do ANYTHING to remain in power, even expose their own (US) agents (w/ (R)s after their names).
As for Kashoggi, couldn't happen to a nicer guy. Reporter, my ass. Politically, Khashoggi was supportive of the Muslim Brotherhood as an exercise in democracy in the Muslim world. In one of his own blogs, he argued for the Muslim Brotherhood, and wrote that: "there can be no political reform and democracy in any Arab country without accepting that political Islam is a part of it."
Ef' the Brotherhood!!!!!!!! They, and bin Laden, were best buds.
\\ But then again, it's probably subject to a 50 Year "Secrecy" moratorium so as not to reveal the names of Intelligence Operatives involved.
/Yeah... RFia's.
Them too.
\\Sparks or Sparked is more "accidental" from a malfuntion
/Yep.
EXACTLy what I tried to say.
Seems like I got some "feel of language", thank you.
NOBODY thought that beating some students... will grow in such a big issue.
Well... that is how it happens in this World.
Same as... how NOBODY thought that survival some miserly efreitor... would spark into such a big brawl...
Corporal...
\\US State Department (aka CIA) didn't cater the events with coffee and donuts?
/So... they are catering organization? ;-P
That's what intelligence gathering is all about. MBWA. More intelligence is gathered at an Embassy Party then by all the agents in the country (Thanks, Ma!). And a Dissident Meet-and-Greet? Priceless. ;)
\\ Didn't employ any PsyOps to encourage the protests? Didn't pay for busses? Hmmmm....
/To create surge of prices on the market??? From all others who did that?
Like Pro-Russian forces, that was reported openly -- like people from that "Don-buss", who ADMITTED that they was PAYED and delivered to capital... to "counter-weight" protests. ;-P
Capitalism at its' finest!
\\Who knows? He died in a fire during an attempt at capture. perhaps we should ask Mary Surratt. Oh wait, she's dead, too.
/RIGHT!
The South was always trying to lure the European Powers into Supporting the Confederacy. They were too smart to bite (overtly at least). Much unlike the US today... @@
\\Try "machete's".
/Like in... Machete movie? ;-P
Exactly.
\\So what sounds were the OSCE Observers recording in their reports? Firecrackers?
/From a positions of "Ukrainian nazis"???
And I need to seek for em MYSELF???
To prove your point in your stead?
Eeeeeeh????
They'd need to wear ear plugs from there. ;P
And as Yoda said, "Seek or seek NOT. DO!" :)
\\You're acknowledging that the Donbass and Luhansk (and 2 other Ukrainian provinces) have already been lost.
/Yeah.
If due to "great help of America"... that territories will stay under control of RFia...
They already reduced to a HALF in population.
And with RFia's politics of nation cleansing (killing locals with diseases and harsh living environment... and taking part in war as conscripts... as well as banishing locals, exiling em to "mainland RFia" endless Syberia... stealing youth, to re-forge it into "Russian")...
What "Ukrainian" will remain on that land???????????????????
And you are PERFECTLY Ou'Key with it?
War, and ethnic cleansing, go hand in glove since the beginning of time. But is colonialism better than empire? We should ask Machiavelli (the Prince) whether to send emissaries to rule, or move to conquered lands and rule yourself. Or like the Persians, create satrapies... letting locals rule themselves. Or Rome, take hostages from the "provinces" back to Rome for ensured loyalty. Or Greeks, place fortresses in conquered capitals, like the inevitable American military bases and Green Zones. Then there were the poor Armenians and Greeks in Ottoman Turkey...
\\They are, though. They still put the King on their coins.
/Oh, please... what they should place on em? Kangaroos???
As some banana republics. :-)))))))))))))))))))))))
Kangaroos? Koalas...!
\\I expect most would become actual Russians (or Americans), since the Azov's would be back to exact "revenge" (as they had started in 2014).
/So... you are imperialist. ;-P
Well, like I care.
Yawn.
Economic Imperialists. Globalists. Why do you think Osama targetted the World Trade Center in NYC? He wasn't sending a symbolic message?
\\You're right, most "news" these days consists of selectively leaked and politically partial tidbits from Intelligence Agencies, US et al. "Reporters" should rename themselves "Transponders" in the interest of full disclosure.
/And when it was any different???
Hard to say. I'm not sure Gutenberg was printing "leaked intelligence" so much as bibles.
\\\\Do I need to pull out the voting maps again?
/If you'd find a way to demonstrate why they matter/what they mean.
\\If you don't already know that, you really must be enamored with your current leadership. When's the "next Ukrainian vote" again? After the "victory parade"?
Ehm????
Jes' sayin'...
\\Treaties signed after Ukraine gained independence from USSR/ Russia don't ring bells for you?
/Like treaty of Eternal Friendship and Honoring Borders??? ;-P
Or what??? "Great nations"... are free from honoring their own words, their own signed treaties????
Well... USA can try it. ;-P
Like I care.
Yawn.
Yes, USAians are world renowned "Indian givers". When was the last time we flouted the UN? Yesterday? Today? We get worse and worse with every new NATO member joining.
\\After the US enters the war (G_d forbid), where do you think OUR naval base will be?
/Well... do Hawaiians loathe having YOUR base on their territory???
What would be with em... if there'd be NO base????
Hint: you can re-read story of what Japs did with Philippinians.
The beaches of Honolulu would be much less crowded, that's for sure. And there'd be no fires in Lanai on Maui...
Do you really want bars and whore houses all up the street at all base exits (ala Saigon or Subic)? The service men spend all the rest of their money at the PX.
\\\\Yep. Few un-hyphenated Americans speak anything but English today. But it's less and less a percentage every year. Can you tell when the economic globalism started?
/Ehm???
\\Try the 1980's (Reagan/ Thatcher).
Ehm???
How then Adam Smith was able to describe it? ;-P
Was he a Great Prophet???
What he desribed was English Mercantlism. Now we have the "new and improved" global corporate form. Can you buy French planes with your new $60b "grant"? What CAN you buy with it? Sounds like mercantilism, but with grants and "promissary notes" (for now). Or like with Russia now... "sanctions". It's just like the coming CBDCs... where the Bank denies you access to your savings/ checking account and tells you what you can spend on, and what you can't.
\\You don't have an economic interest? Who stole all those European "Aid" packages after Maidan? Where did that $1b that Joe Biden paid for his son's investigation to be dropped go?
/Ehm?????
Can we establish terms first????
What that "economic interests" mean?
Things like jobs, entrepeneurial opportunities to start a small business, or the ability to produce goods without confiscation or garnishment of profits... ability to retain and save/invest one's own earned capital gains. I'm pretty sure that those IMF grants didn't go for any tangible services that benefitted the average Ukrainian, most ended up in politicians and oligarch's Swiss Bank Accounts.
\\CIA sent you no "military advisors," weapons, $$$ during Maidan?
/Do you NOT see any difference???
Between "soft"/diplomatic involvement... and sending freaking Marines????
Like you did in Panama.
I'd say that re-tooling your intelligence agencies was a pretty HARD involvement, the Deep State (USIC) runs the USA now (since 2009 Obama or 2001 if you count the creation of "Homeland Security" and unified their powers). Face it, they OWN you now. We could send in the Marines, but then they couldn't hide their ownership from the Dervy's... and Ukraine's well being??? It's "incidental" and "expendable". It's all about "Operational Success" now. Truth? That's for rubes and suckers (like me).
\\/That's how Propaganda, and Misinformation, and first of all OWN Human's Ignorance works. ;-P
\\...and telling "half" the story (carefully selected facts) in every major newspaper outlet.
/Whatever.
You just not proficient with "reading in between lines". ;-P
Well at least I'm looking for the "writing on the wall" (Daniel 5, unlike the "prophet" Dervish.
\\"They started it!" ...and everything that happened before they fired on Fort Sumter was forgotten....
/Yeah.
THAT IS... what RFia wanted achieve with all that howling about "Ukrainian nazis bombing innocent Don-buss". ;-P
Yawn.
Was they successful?
Well... with your mind they f**d well. No offense.
Every good lie starts with a grain of truth. Like "all whites are racist".
\\The Ukrainians had no American guarantees? Sounds pretty reckless of them.
/Budapest Memo, no???
But it only worked until Ukrainians start willingly colluding with some signatories, instigating coups and civil wars and kicking ethnic Russians to the cultural curb. Call it "hubris". The guarantees are being returned stamped "insufficient funds".
/But... who'd knew that USA will be showing drowning in Uvalde Syndrome??? Who'd knew????
Who are THAT wise... in this mundane World????
Some tarot cards and wild guss flying future-tellers? ;-P
You should have performed some due diligence with South Vietnam and Afghanistan.
\\ I can do this all day, Q.
/Yeah... you can re-chant old and burrishly boring, many-many times disproved, not based on ANY facts liliPut's Propaganda...
Well... like I care.
Yawn.
Ditto. It is what it is. Hyperreal hypernormalisation.
\\able to select the leaders for government offices to replace the fleeing President?
/Can you state names of that "selected leaders"... for very least? ;-P
To give it at least some visibility of being "factual".
Please. I have limits to how many wiki's I do... but for the last time, the Victoria Nuland phonecall.
/Looks like you trying to scary me with mere howling??? Do I look like scaredy craw to you? ;-P
A-a-a-o-o-o-o-o-h!!!!
\\I'm supposed to be suprised to learn that Russians were helping the "coup separatists" and believe that Americans weren't helping the "coup loyalists"?????
/"Coup separatists" played by regular RFia SpecOps????
Well... it's natural to help YOUR man you sent under cover to foreign country, isn't it???
Or... USA policy is "that is not our people" and "we'll disenfranchise you, just on a whim" they say to em on their briefs???
Eeeeeeeeh??????????!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :-)))))))))))))))))))))))))))))
Does a Coal Mine Owner bring coals to Newcastle? There were no Ukrainians in Ukraine at the time to fight for the CIA? We brought the shovels and let them dig their own coal. But today, it seems, they're "running out of coal". Maybe they shouldn't have burned it all so fast.
\\Perhaps the Ukrainians should step aside and let America and Russia go at it directly?
/Commented ALREADY. ;-P
That "fierce" duel... from Twelfth Night. ;-P Classics!!!
Bu-ga-gah!!! :-))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))
Sorry, don't know the commedies that well (other than "As you Like it"). I'm more a "tragedy" kinda guy (Titus Andronicus or Coriolanus).
\\Which is why support for Ukraine will end in January of 2025.
/Don't like support Ukraine? Go prepare yourself to lick boots of Chinese. ;-P
Means... if you NoT brave enough... to partake in brawl -- that is ALL ABOUT USA and USA stance in the World.
On FAREST point outpost from your Heartland. Easiest. Most safe. Most advantageous.
HOW... you can brag about protecting yourself from a head-on DIRECT attacks?????
If you so DAMN scared ALREADY?????????
Or... you just waiting for a wake-up call? Pearl Harbor 2.0?
But...
YOUR enemies KNOW that about you -- and WILL try to postpone that wake-up calling... for as long as possible.
And INSTEAD... seek for a way to deliver swift and imminent FINISHING blow.
Please. The "war to end all wars" is what got us IN to this European mess circa 1917. Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me 3x, it's getting embarrassing. Molon labe.
\\Ever hear of the "Gulf of Tonkin Incident"? Casus Belli are the most faked and over-hyped events in history.
/Yap.
Prone on proving MY points? ;-P
Maidan fits the category.
\\What made the lie "plausible" then?
/Howling of liliPut's Propaganda?
That spent $$$BILLIONS$$$ to slip through into Western MSM and social networks. To spread "truth" there.
That is... OPEN and FACTUAL info.
More than that -- they OPENLY and FLAMBOYANTLY bragging about is -- how they FOOLED stooopid Americans.
Well... they do it in Russian. In their native media. So... obviously... you DUNNO about it.
Sorry, but 7 years after RussiaGate, Mueller indictments and counter-suits? It's still not funny.
\\...and other "classics" involving Ukrainian founded CrowdStrike... who verified the "Fancybear" hack of DNC servers, yet never turned them over to FBI for investigation leading to the charges against Julian Asange AND the entire "Trump-Russia" faked American political system PsyOp.
/Yawn.
Like I care.
Your INNER political issue.
Supported by one of your former countrymen whose parents were from Ukraine and emigrated to US.
\\And there are the Mueller Reports and the Durham Reports that expose FBI and CIA shenanigans to rig the American elections for the rest of all time. When Trump is convicted in one of the upcoming 4 rigged trials, do you think that the "Court Judgements" will lead me to "The Truth" with a capital "T"?
/Same as above.
And when you lie down with CIA dogs, you often wake up with fleas, scratching.
\\Sounds like he was right, and Putin decided, finally, in 2022 once Azov got "carried away" and he could no longer ignore it.
/Yeah???? :-)))))))))))))))))
And what if that liliPut would FINNALY decide... that America meddling too much... and need to be cut short???? Of its too long nose? ;-P
Or... maybe you ready to facilitate liliPut with it? ;-P
Punch away! I don't care if the bully stole YOUR lunch money. But until he punches me, you're on your own.
\\...or "proxy war" with both "foreign" sides goading Ukrainians on, exacerbating Ukrainian differences and exploiting their dreams with "RICE".
/Yawn.
History Laws Ignorance.
...that's "loves". And the winners get to write it, but only after the damage has been done. Herodotus or Thucydides? Which do YOU prefer?
\\I think I already pointed out the proxy-war/ civil-war connections.
/Yeah.
Proxy-war... to which USA did not come.
And still trying to respond "nobody's home" lame tactics.
Yawn.
Proxy war means war by proxy. West Ukraine is USA's proxy. East Ukraine, Russia's. Rock-em-Sock-em Robots.
\\Yes, Victoria Nuland's choices were SO much better. ;)
/:-)))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))
That is ONLY response you will have to such SHALLOW as rain puddles taunts. ;-P
:-)))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))
I tried to answer em as being reasonable (while they are not), but now I will only laugh at em. Gotcaha??? ;-)
Goose. Meet Gander. And I usually substitute the word "gravy" for the second reference to "sauce" and "good" for the first. So "What's good for the goose is gravy for the gander". In other word, what's good for one become death for the other. ;)
\\So much later than the Maidan coup. WHAT a surprise! The pro-Russia side still needed more "organization" and "coordination" with their ally, Russia.
/Yeah... there was deeply entrenched and preparing for uprising "separatists"...
But. Somehow. They was NOT prepared. And needed Russians to do all work. ;-P
And American Revolution was all set up by France, yes???!!! ;-P
All that Franklins and Washingtons -- was just a Propaganda.
That is french SpecOps prepared and performed it. With mediation of Jews. ;-P
And CONTROL over USA government... in secret. Since. ;-P
See....
I can play such games TOO. :-))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))
Except you misunderstand the history of Yorktown. The French fleet chased off the British fleet preventing Cornwallis' escape. It's like the difference between Spartans and Athenians. Whenever the Athenians got into trouble (as in the iliad) they ran to their ships to escape. The Spartans, however, they stood their ground. Which were the British (and therefor, all naval powers)? Plato explained all this in his "Laws". It's why he settled in the CENTER of Magnesia and made sure there were few trees on the island good for building ships.
\\Yes, Civil War as part of Proxy War. CIA PsyOps aren't perfect.
/Yeah.
They are shitheads.
I agree with you. Allowed MAJOR enemies acts to slip past em.
Then you should Rochambeau them and embrace "Perfidious Albion".
\\My Uncle Hank was one. But then, he died in the Pacific, so I expect he wouldn't count.
/Whatever suits you.
That is YOUR uncle, still.
Yes, my father's source of inspiration for later life (and my upbringing). USAF, 25 years 1945-70.
\\...and why yours OMITS all reference to CIA/USIC involvement
/From liliPut's Propaganda howling???
Isn't it PERFECTLY natural thing to do -- to ignore such outright lies???
Except... where's the "lie"? More an "inconvenient truth" (not to draw unnecessary parallels to a wholly (holy?) fictional book of the same name).
\\Refer to the election map. Divide and Conquer.
/So much for "civil war" narrative. Yawn.
Not a strategist. I get it. Technologist. You answer problems. Strategists "create" them.
\\Planes are extremely "mobile" and can land almost "anywhere".
/Yeah... like that recent russian strategic bomber... "landed" in the middle of a crop field.
But... will it be able to take off. ;-P
The ANG base at Middle River looks like a pretty good landing spot. As does just about every US Interstate Highway.
\\ Ammunition dumps are much trickier, but often "lightly defended".
/And can cought fire and blow up same easily... just "by accident".
Bu-ga-gah!
I used to spend a lot of time near US Ammo dumps (ie - Umatilla or Aniston/ ChemDeMil). You'd be hard pressed getting them to blow up or catch fire. Ever see a shipboard "magazine"?
\\Our local area is chock-filled with guns/bombs and their producers.
/Which need RAW materials to operate. And that materials... need to be delivered... from China.
Oups!!! %-)))))
Really? Along "Gunpowder Falls)? we've got the ingredients. They're in the local dirt. I'm about 1.5 hrs from Valley Forge. Why do you think that the Continental Army camped THERE?
\\Who cares? That would be "enemy territory".
/Yeah.
China's beachhead. ;-P
I prefer "target rich environment".
\\Exodus? Part the Sea and Palestinians re-enter Egypt? :))))))))))
/:-))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))
But no. That MORE rarely cited parts of Bible. With outright genocide in it. ;-)
Why won't any Arab nations take them in? Because they're toxic radicals who would overhtrow their government starting Day 1. I'm not worried about genocide. I'm not saying it won't happen. I'm saying that I won't worry about it. Meden agan.
\\Wasn't there an "accord" signed? When Lee invaded Antietam (MD) and Gettysburg (PA) after Virginia's secession, it wasn't an invasion? You're begining to sound like Dervy, falling back on 'semantics'. Col. Mosby (The Grey Ghost), welcome to Harford County, MD!
/Well...
History... is very different, through times.
So... direct comparations... not allowed. For any rational discussion.
It's more or less possible to compare ww1 with ww2... though, with lots of workarounds.
But... comparing 19th century wars... and 21st century ones???? Eeeeeh??????!!!!!
And how did WWI start? Nasty Serb "national" kills the ArchDuke FF. Where is Serbia? Balkan backwater... anywhere near Ukraine? ;P
\\Mariupol is Russia now? Who knew? Or are you still in denial?
De jure?
...currently de facto, soon to be de jure as well. Cause your posterity is dying over the question every single day, and there soon won't be many left to establish "jure-is-diction". :((((
\\And there were NO CIA trainers and advisors with Ukrainian forces. Oh, MY!
/Know no such facts.
Can you refer to some? ;-P
I already did, but do you think more'd be public? It IS, however, a "logical" conclusion as well. One ripe with "plausible deniabilities" in hope of averting DIRECT Russian retaliation instead of continued "proxy war".
\\/Narrative... that became VERY popular since that time...
\\Pushed by... who?
Pretty much by every Russian prisoner of war.
You can be sure of one thing. There will be no acknowledgement in the news of US POWs to the US public. Cuz that would lead to "war over".
\\...and the Minsk Accords hadn't been signed? And the CIA hadn't re-organized the Ukrainian Intelligence Services? And John McCain and Linsey Graham didn't "chat with Ukrainian forces" promising them everything in America's war arsenals? And the US wasn't funding biolabs? etc., etc,., etc.
/:-)))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))
All nasty Russian propaganda, eh?
\\No Ukrainians were being trained in NATO facilities around the globe....
/Yep. Some cheap battlefield trainings. ;-P
Or... you say that they partaked in that 2.5 millions $$$ training, too? %-)))))))))))))))))))))
What's an F-16 pilot cost? M-1A tank commander? And then a "good" one? Mechanics for same (10+:1 personnel logistics chain)?
\\The ones in the Aryan symbols adopted by the battalion, which made the propaganda "easier" to schmere. You really need a band like Ramsteinn or Laibach to de-stigmatize them next time BEFORE adopting. Else, they "stink". But why listen to me. I'm just a stupid American.
/Yeah.
How foolish was that Tibetians... adopting "Nazi symbol". ;-P
Tibet fought against the Nazi's?
\\And why not? You've already forced him to re-tool his economy.
/Yep.
And programs to make new types of weapon. Financial funds they stashed.
That's all "Ukraine DID IT".
And not because of their plans to take revenge over USA... for "biggest geopolitical catastrophe".
Yawn.
When's the coup d'etat against Putin supposed to start now? Wasn't that the failed "bleed Russia dry" CIA strategy? LOL! Idiots.
\\Damn! You eschew the "Nazi" label almost as much as a Southern Democrat eschews the "racist" one. Get used to it. It get's less painful with each hyperbolius use, until it eventually pushes through to the otherside through its' misuse and proves it's 'user' the ridiculous fool.
/"Time tells no lies"... until it do.
Yawn.
Z-Z-Z-Z-Z...
\\Hey, the CIA LOVES Ukrainian Nazi's. They always made the best spies against the Kremlin. They spoke Russian, and were committed as f*ck to taking the Russians down during WWII and post-war.
/Yap.
Legends.
Yawn.
Hey we couldn't bring all the Nazi's back to America to build rockets for us. Even unemployed Nazi's need jobs.
\\But well, Hemingway probably are nazi... by your modern standards.
\\Naaah. Commie scum.
Ah... indeed. Erny was inter-brigadier. ;-P
Sorry.
But, see -- how easy it is, to make such historical flip-flops... about matters that are SO distant from your own self...
Problems of categories and overlaps. The only thing missing in the Commie category to distinguish it from the Fascist one is corporations (small socialisms equal to communist "workers councils") atop the proles.
\\ I'd say few people outside of the American military and diplomatic corp received that kind of upbringing.
/Yeah... but, we all unique.
To this or that extent.
...and mine just happened to put Guardia Naccional troops with machine guns on our rooftop when hosting embassy-related or military function-related "parties" filled with American and Venezuelan generals/ admirals. I did (@13-14) get to play "bartender" though while my dad bbq'd the filet-de-mignon's. :)
\\Check the "notes" fields. The ones headed the other way can be found there.
/Can you cite?
I could, but then I'd have to look it all up for the 4th time (not happening).
\\I prefer the photo's of Ukrainian/ Donbass houses, half destroyed pre-invasion.
/Yeah. Lots of houses was destroyed by RFia military (regular or from "independent republics") before 24 of February.
Crack houses? ;)
\\Perhaps the Brits, Poles, and American were more "ambitious" than Merkel and the more reluctant Germans.
/Perhaps....
See what "energy independence" buys you? ;)
\\Ask the South Vietnamese. Ask the fallen Afghan government. Ask all the people we've abandoned when "the going got tough".
/Yawn.
Due dilegence evidently escaped you...
\\Isn't that was this conversation is about? Deciding how much "history" MiniTru still needs to "revise"?
/From your POV?
Yawn.
Yawn away in your cloud of nondisclosure...
\\US State Dept and CIA involvement in Ukraine started LONG before 2014.
Yep.
From times it was part of USSR.
Naturally.
What's more truisms to enter bright scene here? ;-)
\\\\ But then again, it's probably subject to a 50 Year "Secrecy" moratorium so as not to reveal the names of Intelligence Operatives involved.
/Yeah... RFia's.
\\Them too.
You think Ukraine have some secrets of its own???? :-)))))))))))))))))))))))))))))
\\That's what intelligence gathering is all about. MBWA. More intelligence is gathered at an Embassy Party then by all the agents in the country (Thanks, Ma!). And a Dissident Meet-and-Greet? Priceless. ;)
That... need smart operatives.
And... double as smart mentors.
And... triple as smart their higher-ups...
do you really think that that is the case? ;-P
\\And as Yoda said, "Seek or seek NOT. DO!" :)
Only jedies can mindlessly do something... because FORCE leads em.
Miserly homo... not very sapient, that trying to ACT before doing... became Darwin Prize Winners... soon enough. ;-P
\\War, and ethnic cleansing, go hand in glove since the beginning of time.
Hah...
but you forgot to mention bloody upraises... of that "cleansed".
Deliberately?
\\But is colonialism better than empire?
Like it not one and the same thing???
\\Economic Imperialists. Globalists. Why do you think Osama targetted the World Trade Center in NYC? He wasn't sending a symbolic message?
And Pentagon too...
\\Hard to say. I'm not sure Gutenberg was printing "leaked intelligence" so much as bibles.
Hah.
Propaganda.
They NOT teach such things on school history lessons. ;-P
\\Jes' sayin'...
Whatever, then...
\\Yes, USAians are world renowned "Indian givers". When was the last time we flouted the UN? Yesterday? Today? We get worse and worse with every new NATO member joining.
It's very hard to gain a good fame (unlike bad one).
And very easy to lose it... to never regain.
Germans... know it the best, I think. Out of modern nations.
\\Do you really want bars and whore houses all up the street at all base exits (ala Saigon or Subic)? The service men spend all the rest of their money at the PX.
Yep.
Stone cold barracks in Siberia... much more pleasant... not, of course not.
\\where the Bank denies you access to your savings/ checking account and tells you what you can spend on, and what you can't.
Whatever...
Go make you own bank. ;-P
And you'd find that your problems are exactly the same as "that nasty banks" have.
\\Things like jobs, entrepeneurial opportunities to start a small business, or the ability to produce goods without confiscation or garnishment of profits... ability to retain and save/invest one's own earned capital gains.
Yeah... with NEW techs available. ;-)
\\Well at least I'm looking for the "writing on the wall" (Daniel 5, unlike the "prophet" Dervish.
Yeah... and cunning disinformation spreaders USING this your deficiency.
\\Every good lie starts with a grain of truth. Like "all whites are racist".
Whatever...
\\\\The Ukrainians had no American guarantees? Sounds pretty reckless of them.
/Budapest Memo, no???
\\But it only worked until Ukrainians start willingly colluding with some signatories, instigating coups and civil wars and kicking ethnic Russians to the cultural curb. Call it "hubris". The guarantees are being returned stamped "insufficient funds".
Whatever...
law of unpredictable consequences...
will take what is due. ;-P
\\You should have performed some due diligence with South Vietnam and Afghanistan.
Same as above.
\\Does a Coal Mine Owner bring coals to Newcastle? There were no Ukrainians in Ukraine at the time to fight for the CIA? We brought the shovels and let them dig their own coal. But today, it seems, they're "running out of coal". Maybe they shouldn't have burned it all so fast.
????
\\Sorry, don't know the commedies that well (other than "As you Like it"). I'm more a "tragedy" kinda guy (Titus Andronicus or Coriolanus).
Twelfth Night - Entire Play
Folger Shakespeare Library
https://www.folger.edu › explore › twelfth-night › read
A confrontation between Olivia's steward, Malvolio, and the partying Toby and his cohort leads to a revenge plot against Malvolio. Malvolio is tricked into ...
Tragedy. Comedy. It all depends on set of masks used. :-/
\\Please. The "war to end all wars" is what got us IN to this European mess circa 1917. Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me 3x, it's getting embarrassing. Molon labe.
Biggest fool -- is one who fooling oneself.
\\Maidan fits the category.
Yap.
And pigs flying.
\\Sorry, but 7 years after RussiaGate, Mueller indictments and counter-suits? It's still not funny.
So... you think I lying to you? About Russians bragging about... among themself.
And what is that source of "stupid americans" are?
\\Supported by one of your former countrymen whose parents were from Ukraine and emigrated to US.
Whatever.
\\And when you lie down with CIA dogs, you often wake up with fleas, scratching.
There is NO CIA dog... that stooopid and not loving itself... to lay in mud of stone cold Siberia barracks.
\\Punch away! I don't care if the bully stole YOUR lunch money. But until he punches me, you're on your own.
Even if that money... from your credit card? ;-P
\\...that's "loves". And the winners get to write it, but only after the damage has been done. Herodotus or Thucydides? Which do YOU prefer?
????
\\Proxy war means war by proxy. West Ukraine is USA's proxy. East Ukraine, Russia's. Rock-em-Sock-em Robots.
BS.
\\ In other word, what's good for one become death for the other. ;)
Not death... just a noise.
\\I can play such games TOO. :-))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))
\\Except you misunderstand the history of Yorktown.
It. Doesn't. Matter.
In that setup.
\\\\...and why yours OMITS all reference to CIA/USIC involvement
/From liliPut's Propaganda howling???
Isn't it PERFECTLY natural thing to do -- to ignore such outright lies???
\\Except... where's the "lie"?
It is always is a trade-off.
A trade-off (or tradeoff) is a situational decision that involves diminishing or losing on quality, quantity, or property of a set or design in return for gains in other aspects. In simple terms, a tradeoff is where one thing increases, and another must decrease.
Trade-off - Wikipedia
Wikipedia
https://en.wikipedia.org › wiki › Trade-off
Synergies & Trade-Offs | SVSS
Understanding trade-offs and trade-off curves. - Marxan
\\Not a strategist. I get it. Technologist. You answer problems. Strategists "create" them.
With its dully incredulous decision-making???
Yap.
As always.
And then, technologists need to came in... and clean all of that mess.
Like Heracles. ;-P
Or... I already have had proposed that ref... to that Metal Hurlant episode. ;-)
\\The ANG base at Middle River looks like a pretty good landing spot. As does just about every US Interstate Highway.
I refer to that video with horizontal tailspin fall.
\\I used to spend a lot of time near US Ammo dumps (ie - Umatilla or Aniston/ ChemDeMil). You'd be hard pressed getting them to blow up or catch fire. Ever see a shipboard "magazine"?
Go enlight yourself about German Taurus cruise missiles. ;-)
\\...currently de facto, soon to be de jure as well.
If you'd start to send Lend-Lease. ;-P
To your "ally".
And ASAP!
\\ Cause your posterity is dying over the question every single day, and there soon won't be many left to establish "jure-is-diction". :((((
You are just a naive Westerner... who believe Russian military reports... to which even Russians themself... do not believe. :-))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))
\\I already did, but do you think more'd be public? It IS, however, a "logical" conclusion as well. One ripe with "plausible deniabilities" in hope of averting DIRECT Russian retaliation instead of continued "proxy war".
No facts... no conclusions, from my side. ;-P
\\You can be sure of one thing. There will be no acknowledgement in the news of US POWs to the US public. Cuz that would lead to "war over".
It will NOT stop Russains from putting em on trial. ;-P
Like Powers. ;-P
\\All nasty Russian propaganda, eh?
Depends on context.
Because... you know how propaganda concocted, yes?
\\What's an F-16 pilot cost? M-1A tank commander? And then a "good" one? Mechanics for same (10+:1 personnel logistics chain)?
Bloat. ;-P
\\How foolish was that Tibetians... adopting "Nazi symbol". ;-P
\\Tibet fought against the Nazi's?
Not checked up link?
\\\When's the coup d'etat against Putin supposed to start now? Wasn't that the failed "bleed Russia dry" CIA strategy? LOL! Idiots.
Is there any need to attempt assassination of one who already dead? ;-P
You remember? "Kagemusha". ;-)
\\The only thing missing in the Commie category to distinguish it from the Fascist one is corporations (small socialisms equal to communist "workers councils") atop the proles.
Naaah... just differ slogans... mostly because in differ languages. ;-P
\\\\Check the "notes" fields. The ones headed the other way can be found there.
/Can you cite?
\\I could, but then I'd have to look it all up for the 4th time (not happening).
Whatever then.
It do not need to be THAT strictly one-sided... to still be the Truth.
Yawn.
Just basic logic -- on WHOSE land it was happening???
\\See what "energy independence" buys you? ;)
And millions of other considerations.
Yawn.
\\\\Ask the South Vietnamese. Ask the fallen Afghan government. Ask all the people we've abandoned when "the going got tough".
/Yawn.
\\Due dilegence evidently escaped you...
But laws of History... not.
Yawn.
"Knowing few principles... spares from remembering lots of facts" (c)
\\\\Isn't that was this conversation is about? Deciding how much "history" MiniTru still needs to "revise"?
/From your POV?
Yawn.
\\Yawn away in your cloud of nondisclosure...
Naaah.
It was literal.
That is looks like stemming from your POV.
\\US State Dept and CIA involvement in Ukraine started LONG before 2014.
/Yep.
From times it was part of USSR.
Naturally.
What's more truisms to enter bright scene here? ;-)
Too cute by half. Let's start with the "official relations" that started after "separation"/ specifically, with 2004/5 and Yushchenko. Is that when Ukraine took a bite from the CIA's apple (Orange Revolution)? Or was it before? In 1992/3 with the Trilateral talks (and Kataryna become "country manager for KPMG and Viktor president of the National Bank of Ukraine?)?
When the Soviet Union collapsed in 1991, Ukraine had the world’s third largest nuclear arsenal on its territory. When Ukrainian-Russian negotiations on removing these weapons from Ukraine appeared to break down in September 1993, the U.S. government engaged in a trilateral process with Ukraine and Russia. The result was the Trilateral Statement, signed in January 1994, under which Ukraine agreed to transfer the nuclear warheads to Russia for elimination. In return, Ukraine received security assurances from the United States, Russia and Britain;
\\\\ But then again, it's probably subject to a 50 Year "Secrecy" moratorium so as not to reveal the names of Intelligence Operatives involved.
/Yeah... RFia's.
\\Them too.
/You think Ukraine have some secrets of its own???? :-)))))))))))))))))))))))))))))
Think?
\\That's what intelligence gathering is all about. MBWA. More intelligence is gathered at an Embassy Party then by all the agents in the country (Thanks, Ma!). And a Dissident Meet-and-Greet? Priceless. ;)
/That... need smart operatives.
And... double as smart mentors.
And... triple as smart their higher-ups...
do you really think that that is the case? ;-P
Just the 1st one. :)
\\And as Yoda said, "Seek or seek NOT. DO!" :)
/Only jedies can mindlessly do something... because FORCE leads em.
Miserly homo... not very sapient, that trying to ACT before doing... became Darwin Prize Winners... soon enough. ;-P
"What does not kill me only makes me stronger." - Nietzsche "Try, try again!" - Anonymous
\\War, and ethnic cleansing, go hand in glove since the beginning of time.
/Hah...
but you forgot to mention bloody upraises... of that "cleansed".
Deliberately?
So how do you spell A-Z-O-V?
\\But is colonialism better than empire?
/Like it not one and the same thing???
Govern directly or by proxy, same thing? War directly or by proxy, same thing? One has "plausible deniability". The other? Not so much.
\\Economic Imperialists. Globalists. Why do you think Osama targetted the World Trade Center in NYC? He wasn't sending a symbolic message?
/And Pentagon too...
There you go. A Double symbolism.
\\Hard to say. I'm not sure Gutenberg was printing "leaked intelligence" so much as bibles.
/Hah.
Propaganda.
They NOT teach such things on school history lessons. ;-P
We all get to watch "Triumph of the Will"...
\\Yes, USAians are world renowned "Indian givers". When was the last time we flouted the UN? Yesterday? Today? We get worse and worse with every new NATO member joining.
/It's very hard to gain a good fame (unlike bad one).
And very easy to lose it... to never regain.
Germans... know it the best, I think. Out of modern nations.
And paid dearly for it. It warped them (Merckel on immigration), made them "stupid". Like us.
\\Do you really want bars and whore houses all up the street at all base exits (ala Saigon or Subic)? The service men spend all the rest of their money at the PX.
/Yep.
Stone cold barracks in Siberia... much more pleasant... not, of course not.
Then you need to sail a very narrow and precarious course between Scylla and Charybdis. Bon voyage!
\\where the Bank denies you access to your savings/ checking account and tells you what you can spend on, and what you can't.
/Whatever...
Go make you own bank. ;-P
And you'd find that your problems are exactly the same as "that nasty banks" have.
No, you'd find that you have no "social relations".
\\Things like jobs, entrepeneurial opportunities to start a small business, or the ability to produce goods without confiscation or garnishment of profits... ability to retain and save/invest one's own earned capital gains.
/Yeah... with NEW techs available. ;-)
THAT is where the come from. Else, what's the point in developing them if they'll simple be used to further repress you?
\\Well at least I'm looking for the "writing on the wall" (Daniel 5, unlike the "prophet" Dervish.
/Yeah... and cunning disinformation spreaders USING this your deficiency.
Curiosity is a deficiency? Only to a cat on his last-life.
\\\\The Ukrainians had no American guarantees? Sounds pretty reckless of them.
/Budapest Memo, no???
\\But it only worked until Ukrainians start willingly colluding with some signatories, instigating coups and civil wars and kicking ethnic Russians to the cultural curb. Call it "hubris". The guarantees are being returned stamped "insufficient funds".
/Whatever...
law of unpredictable consequences...
will take what is due. ;-P
This must have been a bad joke.
\\You should have performed some due diligence with South Vietnam and Afghanistan.
/Same as above.
Same as above.
\\Does a Coal Mine Owner bring coals to Newcastle? There were no Ukrainians in Ukraine at the time to fight for the CIA? We brought the shovels and let them dig their own coal. But today, it seems, they're "running out of coal". Maybe they shouldn't have burned it all so fast.
/????
We brought our part (guns). Your part was the "men" to use them. And you greatly outnumbered the "Russians" in Donbass/ Luhansk, so they called in "reinforcements". Sounds like the initial "gamble" (punish the ethnic Russians) failed to pay off. The coercive methods, "too direct". Next time, try using an "Achievement Society" (Deleuze) instead of a "Disciplinary Society" (Foucault).
\\Sorry, don't know the commedies that well (other than "As you Like it"). I'm more a "tragedy" kinda guy (Titus Andronicus or Coriolanus).
/Twelfth Night - Entire Play
Folger Shakespeare Library
https://www.folger.edu › explore › twelfth-night › read
A confrontation between Olivia's steward, Malvolio, and the partying Toby and his cohort leads to a revenge plot against Malvolio. Malvolio is tricked into ...
Tragedy. Comedy. It all depends on set of masks used. :-/
...or "who/ what" is being either admired/ worshipped, or degraded/ made fun of.
\\Please. The "war to end all wars" is what got us IN to this European mess circa 1917. Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me 3x, it's getting embarrassing. Molon labe.
/Biggest fool -- is one who fooling oneself.
Le non dupes errent!
\\Maidan fits the category.
/Yap.
And pigs flying.
There she goes!
\\Sorry, but 7 years after RussiaGate, Mueller indictments and counter-suits? It's still not funny.
/So... you think I lying to you? About Russians bragging about... among themself.
And what is that source of "stupid americans" are?
Nope. I simply don't care if they laugh and brag. It's not funny, because Trump was never a "Russian agent".
\\Supported by one of your former countrymen whose parents were from Ukraine and emigrated to US.
/Whatever.
Ukraine's going to need LOTS of new immigrants to replace those Ukrainians who died... I wonder what loyalties they'll harbour....
\\And when you lie down with CIA dogs, you often wake up with fleas, scratching.
/There is NO CIA dog... that stooopid and not loving itself... to lay in mud of stone cold Siberia barracks.
I'm sure they all have diplomatic passports and a C-17 waiting for them with engines running. "Golden parachutes".
\\Punch away! I don't care if the bully stole YOUR lunch money. But until he punches me, you're on your own.
/Even if that money... from your credit card? ;-P
Which is why we're cutting it up next January. Never throw good money after bad, or try and catch a falling knife.
\\...that's "loves". And the winners get to write it, but only after the damage has been done. Herodotus or Thucydides? Which do YOU prefer?
/????
One full of gods and myths, or one full of honest/ more objective assessments with both side's reasons given/ explained?
\\Proxy war means war by proxy. West Ukraine is USA's proxy. East Ukraine, Russia's. Rock-em-Sock-em Robots.
/BS.
Your block (head) is getting knocked off! Don't tell me, you're planning a counter-punch... but who's really controlling it?
\\ In other word, what's good for one become death for the other. ;)
/Not death... just a noise.
I like gravy. Especially served over Turkey.
\\I can play such games TOO. :-))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))
\\Except you misunderstand the history of Yorktown.
/It. Doesn't. Matter.
In that setup.
No? Ever see rats fleeing a sinking ship (ie - Afghanistan)? Ever see one trying to save the ship?
\\\\...and why yours OMITS all reference to CIA/USIC involvement
/From liliPut's Propaganda howling???
Isn't it PERFECTLY natural thing to do -- to ignore such outright lies???
\\Except... where's the "lie"?
/It is always is a trade-off.
A trade-off (or tradeoff) is a situational decision that involves diminishing or losing on quality, quantity, or property of a set or design in return for gains in other aspects. In simple terms, a tradeoff is where one thing increases, and another must decrease.
Trade-off - Wikipedia
Wikipedia
https://en.wikipedia.org › wiki › Trade-off
Synergies & Trade-Offs | SVSS
Understanding trade-offs and trade-off curves. - Marxan
Indeed. But that's still no reason for denying and repressing the facts surrounding the unselected option.
\\Not a strategist. I get it. Technologist. You answer problems. Strategists "create" them.
/With its dully incredulous decision-making???
Yap.
As always.
And then, technologists need to came in... and clean all of that mess.
Like Heracles. ;-P
Or... I already have had proposed that ref... to that Metal Hurlant episode. ;-)
...and I'm still working on that Augean Stable problem. ;)
\\The ANG base at Middle River looks like a pretty good landing spot. As does just about every US Interstate Highway.
/I refer to that video with horizontal tailspin fall.
Still one less plane in enemy hands.
\\I used to spend a lot of time near US Ammo dumps (ie - Umatilla or Aniston/ ChemDeMil). You'd be hard pressed getting them to blow up or catch fire. Ever see a shipboard "magazine"?
/Go enlight yourself about German Taurus cruise missiles. ;-)
Thats what MULTIPLE bunkers and magazine are for. Directed energy blow-out vents. You lose one, but not the others (or the ship). Each egg, its' own basket.
\\...currently de facto, soon to be de jure as well.
/If you'd start to send Lend-Lease. ;-P
To your "ally".
And ASAP!
That would be the better option. But then you wouldn't be forced to pay the "high[er] cost of FREE".
\\ Cause your posterity is dying over the question every single day, and there soon won't be many left to establish "jure-is-diction". :((((
/You are just a naive Westerner... who believe Russian military reports... to which even Russians themself... do not believe. :-))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))
Enjoy der kampf!
\\I already did, but do you think more'd be public? It IS, however, a "logical" conclusion as well. One ripe with "plausible deniabilities" in hope of averting DIRECT Russian retaliation instead of continued "proxy war".
/No facts... no conclusions, from my side. ;-P
Caritas. Meden agan.
\\You can be sure of one thing. There will be no acknowledgement in the news of US POWs to the US public. Cuz that would lead to "war over".
/It will NOT stop Russains from putting em on trial. ;-P
Like Powers. ;-P
Which is why it won't make the news. Operational success doesn't depend upon truth, merely "sustained belief". One that would have been much less possible before "big tech" began to write its' algorithms.
\\All nasty Russian propaganda, eh?
/Depends on context.
/Because... you know how propaganda concocted, yes?
All methods? Who does? I'll stick with PT Barnum on this one. "Without promotion, something terrible happens... nothing!"
\\What's an F-16 pilot cost? M-1A tank commander? And then a "good" one? Mechanics for same (10+:1 personnel logistics chain)?
/Bloat. ;-P
Sounds like an Infantryman.
\\How foolish was that Tibetians... adopting "Nazi symbol". ;-P
\\Tibet fought against the Nazi's?
Not checked up link?
No, just pointing out the fact that the Tibetans were neutral in WWII. Ukraine was NOT.
\\\When's the coup d'etat against Putin supposed to start now? Wasn't that the failed "bleed Russia dry" CIA strategy? LOL! Idiots.
/Is there any need to attempt assassination of one who already dead? ;-P
You remember? "Kagemusha". ;-)
No, but I do remember Dave.
\\The only thing missing in the Commie category to distinguish it from the Fascist one is corporations (small socialisms equal to communist "workers councils") atop the proles.
/Naaah... just differ slogans... mostly because in differ languages. ;-P
Also, Commie leaders clap along with the applause. Fascist ones take all the credit for the applause. Else why would the corporate stooges follow his orders? Difference between modern father (fascist) and totalitarian post-modern father (communist).
\\\\Check the "notes" fields. The ones headed the other way can be found there.
/Can you cite?
\\I could, but then I'd have to look it all up for the 4th time (not happening).
/Whatever then.
It do not need to be THAT strictly one-sided... to still be the Truth.
Yawn.
Just basic logic -- on WHOSE land it was happening???
On the land of the "residents" on "both" sides of the DMZ.
\\See what "energy independence" buys you? ;)
/And millions of other considerations.
Yawn.
Tell that to Angela Merckel.
\\\\Ask the South Vietnamese. Ask the fallen Afghan government. Ask all the people we've abandoned when "the going got tough".
/Yawn.
\\Due dilegence evidently escaped you...
/But laws of History... not.
Yawn.
"Knowing few principles... spares from remembering lots of facts" (c)
History follows laws? I always believed histories to be separate and distinct events linked together by narratives. Some common, some less common. Marxian "inevitability" turned out to be wholly "evitable".
\\\\Isn't that was this conversation is about? Deciding how much "history" MiniTru still needs to "revise"?
/From your POV?
Yawn.
\\Yawn away in your cloud of nondisclosure...
/Naaah.
It was literal.
That is looks like stemming from your POV.
Call them the "alternative facts" if you like.
\\ Is that when Ukraine took a bite from the CIA's apple (Orange Revolution)?
:-)))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))
Know why I laughing???
I was watching every minute of court trial, which was in center of it (wat, you didn't knew it?) -- and there was NO CIA agents involved, fer sure. ;-P
\\When the Soviet Union collapsed in 1991, Ukraine had the world’s third largest nuclear arsenal on its territory.
Which was snatched in a haste. That part that could be used at will -- tactical ones.
And strategical -- was controlled from Mos-Cow.
And even if Ukraine would keep hold of it -- what it could be used for???
\\Think?
Yeah. That was just an opinion, isn't it?
\\Just the 1st one. :)
Just for their own demise... like what happened with Vindman. ;-P
\\"What does not kill me only makes me stronger." - Nietzsche "Try, try again!" - Anonymous
Yeah... like (my favorite) cutting own neck with a chansaw. ;-P
Or... going to the war on Uktaine. ;-P
\\So how do you spell A-Z-O-V?
Mariupol... probably.
\\Govern directly or by proxy, same thing?
Oh, please. :-))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))
Empire with DIRECT ruling???
Like by some "god from machina"? ;-P
\\One has "plausible deniability".
:-)))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))
With which one fooling only oneself. ;-P
That is just a part of YOUR culture "omerta" code.
But... transparent for each other.
\\There you go. A Double symbolism.
If they'd know a way to blow some nukelar plant... but they was too stupid for that.
So... that is just a symbol of their stupidity.
\\We all get to watch "Triumph of the Will"...
Yeah.
Propaganda conditioning... for you to have wrong idea about what propaganda IS.
So that REAL one would continue to work on you as unbreakable spell. ;-P
Remember as when that Jewish youth... "revolted" with praying to a bull... but then, that bull was destroyed, and they turned back to old cult. ;-P
\\And paid dearly for it. It warped them (Merckel on immigration), made them "stupid". Like us.
Not yet.
But you are on that same slippery slope...
\\Then you need to sail a very narrow and precarious course between Scylla and Charybdis. Bon voyage!
As we all do.
Homeostasis!
\\No, you'd find that you have no "social relations".
Yeah. That's one of problem. Core one, probably.
\\Else, what's the point in developing them if they'll simple be used to further repress you?
"Then you need to sail a very narrow and precarious course between Scylla and Charybdis. Bon voyage!" ;-P
Looks like you chose your destination... into mouth of one of the monsters, already?
\\And you greatly outnumbered the "Russians" in Donbass/ Luhansk, so they called in "reinforcements".
Easy to achieve -- outnumber some small group of SpecOps operatives. ;-P
\\Sounds like the initial "gamble" (punish the ethnic Russians) failed to pay off. The coercive methods, "too direct". Next time, try using an "Achievement Society" (Deleuze) instead of a "Disciplinary Society" (Foucault).
I... warned you that I'll be laughing. Isn't it?
So. :-)))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))
Your culture spellwords... do not work on me.
Naturally. ;-P
\\...or "who/ what" is being either admired/ worshipped, or degraded/ made fun of.
As I said... masks.
\\Nope. I simply don't care if they laugh and brag. It's not funny, because Trump was never a "Russian agent".
But still can be Useless Idiot.
\\I'm sure they all have diplomatic passports and a C-17 waiting for them with engines running. "Golden parachutes".
:-))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))
Like in case with Powers? ;-P
\\Which is why we're cutting it up next January. Never throw good money after bad, or try and catch a falling knife.
Too late...
you already have bullseye painted on your back... for target practicing with all kinds of knifes... like, machetes... and etc.
\\One full of gods and myths, or one full of honest/ more objective assessments with both side's reasons given/ explained?
"In theory... theory and practice is the same".
You still not internalized this verse.
Yawn.
\\Your block (head) is getting knocked off! Don't tell me, you're planning a counter-punch... but who's really controlling it?
????
\\\\I can play such games TOO. :-))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))
\\Except you misunderstand the history of Yorktown.
/It. Doesn't. Matter.
In that setup.
\\No? Ever see rats fleeing a sinking ship (ie - Afghanistan)? Ever see one trying to save the ship?
"Helpers of a sinking people -- are that sinking people themself". They say.
\\Indeed. But that's still no reason for denying and repressing the facts surrounding the unselected option.
But limitation on memory and processing power -- are.
Surely... you are not a programmer, to internalize such trivia.
Yawn.
\\...and I'm still working on that Augean Stable problem. ;)
Yeah.
Because... just above^^^^^^^
\\Still one less plane in enemy hands.
Yeah... you B-1s falling even without enemies help.
So... you are proficient with sucking. ;-P
\\Thats what MULTIPLE bunkers and magazine are for. Directed energy blow-out vents. You lose one, but not the others (or the ship). Each egg, its' own basket.
That's... just a technological problem.
Which have multitude of solutions... with current miltechs. ;-P
\\No, just pointing out the fact that the Tibetans were neutral in WWII. Ukraine was NOT.
That was discussion of symbols...
\\Difference between modern father (fascist) and totalitarian post-modern father (communist).
:-))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))
\\On the land of the "residents" on "both" sides of the DMZ.
BS.
\\Tell that to Angela Merckel.
She's nobody today.
\\History follows laws?
You... followed "prominent marxist"... and still DUNNO it? ;-P
Well, edutainment to blame.
Meh.
\\Call them the "alternative facts" if you like.
Naaah.
I just ask -- can you wear different hat? ;-)
\\ Is that when Ukraine took a bite from the CIA's apple (Orange Revolution)?
:-)))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))
Know why I laughing???
I was watching every minute of court trial, which was in center of it (wat, you didn't knew it?) -- and there was NO CIA agents involved, fer sure. ;-P
Ahhh, a successful mission then! Nothing screams a CIA/MI-6 (Or KGB turncoat) PsyOp like "operational success". Even when it doesn't originate in the US(?).
Later, Melnychenko moved to the United States and received political asylum there [The "Reward" in RICE]. His tapes were eventually made available to the United States intelligence services and examined to determine their authenticity and content. The authenticity of the whole file of tapes remains officially unconfirmed. However, U.S. forensic experts have officially analyzed the section of tapes concerning Iraq issues and found it authentic.
\\When the Soviet Union collapsed in 1991, Ukraine had the world’s third largest nuclear arsenal on its territory.
/Which was snatched in a haste. That part that could be used at will -- tactical ones.
And strategical -- was controlled from Mos-Cow.
And even if Ukraine would keep hold of it -- what it could be used for???
Keeping the wolves out of Kyiv? Handwarmers? Doorstops?
\\Just the 1st one. :)
/Just for their own demise... like what happened with Vindman. ;-P
I said smart.
\\"What does not kill me only makes me stronger." - Nietzsche "Try, try again!" - Anonymous
/Yeah... like (my favorite) cutting own neck with a chansaw. ;-P
Or... going to the war on Uktaine. ;-P
Russia's been weakened? I look forward to the victory parade, then. ;)
\\So how do you spell A-Z-O-V?
/Mariupol... probably.
I was thinking pre-2022 Donbass.
\\Govern directly or by proxy, same thing?
/Oh, please. :-))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))
Empire with DIRECT ruling???
Like by some "god from machina"? ;-P
If Putin moved to Kyiv and ruled from there, what would THAT be? Russians would no longer obey? What's a King? Emperor? A central (rather than federated) decisionmaker.
\\One has "plausible deniability".
/:-)))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))
With which one fooling only oneself. ;-P
That is just a part of YOUR culture "omerta" code.
But... transparent for each other.
Really? Transparent yes, but "doubts" remain. At least, until the day that they all gather in Independence Square.
\\There you go. A Double symbolism.
/If they'd know a way to blow some nukelar plant... but they was too stupid for that.
So... that is just a symbol of their stupidity.
Well, I got the message anyway.
\\We all get to watch "Triumph of the Will"...
/Yeah.
Propaganda conditioning... for you to have wrong idea about what propaganda IS.
So that REAL one would continue to work on you as unbreakable spell. ;-P
Remember as when that Jewish youth... "revolted" with praying to a bull... but then, that bull was destroyed, and they turned back to old cult. ;-P
The Pre-USSR one. Yes, I do. With Putin as Tsar. Still a "Disciplinary Society", not yet an "Achievement" one with a "Society of Control" equipped with a hypernormal hyperreal social media platform (like in the West, ie- "Jack's Magic Coffee Shop).
\\And paid dearly for it. It warped them (Merckel on immigration), made them "stupid". Like us.
/Not yet.
But you are on that same slippery slope...
Just not at the same "demography" collapse point.
\\Then you need to sail a very narrow and precarious course between Scylla and Charybdis. Bon voyage!
/As we all do.
Homeostasis!
Except we're like an amoeba slurping up everything and crossing our fingers that it won't kill us.
\\No, you'd find that you have no "social relations".
/Yeah. That's one of problem. Core one, probably.
They are mediated through commodity exchanges.
\\Else, what's the point in developing them if they'll simple be used to further repress you?
/"Then you need to sail a very narrow and precarious course between Scylla and Charybdis. Bon voyage!" ;-P
Looks like you chose your destination... into mouth of one of the monsters, already?
Either cut the gordian knot, or try and untie it.
\\And you greatly outnumbered the "Russians" in Donbass/ Luhansk, so they called in "reinforcements".
/Easy to achieve -- outnumber some small group of SpecOps operatives. ;-P
...until the reinforcements arrive. */*
\\Sounds like the initial "gamble" (punish the ethnic Russians) failed to pay off. The coercive methods, "too direct". Next time, try using an "Achievement Society" (Deleuze) instead of a "Disciplinary Society" (Foucault).
/I... warned you that I'll be laughing. Isn't it?
So. :-)))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))
Your culture spellwords... do not work on me.
Naturally. ;-P
Laugh while you can monkey boy... But you know your Father better than me. Now let me get back to my Facebook "information stream" so I can receive my latest orders from Sleepy Joe and the Deep State USIC bureaucrats.
\\...or "who/ what" is being either admired/ worshipped, or degraded/ made fun of.
/As I said... masks.
:)
\\Nope. I simply don't care if they laugh and brag. It's not funny, because Trump was never a "Russian agent".
/But still can be Useless Idiot.
Only to those lacking confidence in their cause & arguments to acknowledge certain truths.
\\I'm sure they all have diplomatic passports and a C-17 waiting for them with engines running. "Golden parachutes".
/:-))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))
Like in case with Powers? ;-P
He was traded. Beats the cyanide pill alternative. Not everyone's capable of becoming a poor man's atom bomb. Even if they, like Ukraine, are being treated as one.
\\Which is why we're cutting it up next January. Never throw good money after bad, or try and catch a falling knife.
/Too late...
you already have bullseye painted on your back... for target practicing with all kinds of knifes... like, machetes... and etc.
And yet lessons were learned... on BOTH sides. Putin now knows the extent to which he was despised by the G-7 Club, despite all his previous promises of conform. Besides, I'm sure CIA see's plenty of new "opportunities" for weakening/ strengthening Russia.
\\One full of gods and myths, or one full of honest/ more objective assessments with both side's reasons given/ explained?
/"In theory... theory and practice is the same".
You still not internalized this verse.
Yawn.
Why would I if ends were inpermanent and unsustainable and means but temporary and changeable?
\\Your block (head) is getting knocked off! Don't tell me, you're planning a counter-punch... but who's really controlling it?
/????
You didn't watch the rock-em sock-em robots commercial...?
The CIA manipulator's hand is so far up Ukraine's B*tt that you don't even feel it any more. :(
\\\\I can play such games TOO. :-))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))
\\Except you misunderstand the history of Yorktown.
/It. Doesn't. Matter.
In that setup.
\\No? Ever see rats fleeing a sinking ship (ie - Afghanistan)? Ever see one trying to save the ship?
"Helpers of a sinking people -- are that sinking people themself". They say.
Except that they never pay the consequences. Not enough "skin-in-the-game".
\\Indeed. But that's still no reason for denying and repressing the facts surrounding the unselected option.
/But limitation on memory and processing power -- are.
Surely... you are not a programmer, to internalize such trivia.
Yawn.
Surely you have been programmed if you both accept and internalize such trivia. I look forward to meeting future programmers of quebits for quantum computers, Q. For you are far too binary/ "digital".
\\...and I'm still working on that Augean Stable problem. ;)
/Yeah.
Because... just above^^^^^^^
Another Potomac River diversion in just 7 months...
\\Still one less plane in enemy hands.
/Yeah... you B-1s falling even without enemies help.
So... you are proficient with sucking. ;-P
Hey, we just made the tails and flaps at LM Aero & Naval @ Middle River. We were much better at fan reversers for Boeing & McDonnell-Douglas Engines. Our autoclaves were too small for anything much bigger.
\\Thats what MULTIPLE bunkers and magazine are for. Directed energy blow-out vents. You lose one, but not the others (or the ship). Each egg, its' own basket.
/That's... just a technological problem.
Which have multitude of solutions... with current miltechs. ;-P
Yeah, I saw the pictures of the huge ammo-dump fireballs on BOTH sides... haste makes waste, but what do you care? You aren't paying for it.
\\No, just pointing out the fact that the Tibetans were neutral in WWII. Ukraine was NOT.
/That was discussion of symbols...
Therefore Signifiers with different meanings (NAZI/Buddhist) Signified.
\\Difference between modern father (fascist) and totalitarian post-modern father (communist).
/:-))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))
The father post is ^^^above^^^. ;)
\\On the land of the "residents" on "both" sides of the DMZ.
/BS.
Weren't YOU the one into Google Maps satellite pictures? Or did the OSCE monitors only fall into crater holes on your side of it?
\\Tell that to Angela Merckel.
/She's nobody today.
And tomorrow??? You're right AfD will be in charge.
\\History follows laws?
/You... followed "prominent marxist"... and still DUNNO it? ;-P
Well, edutainment to blame.
Meh.
I also followed Marx's successors. On "the event". As Hegel would say, "Thesis:Antithesis::Synthesis"->Memory->Repeat. 1st as tragedy, then as farce. Caesar-Kaiser-Czar-Putin. Are we at "farce" yet?
\\Call them the "alternative facts" if you like.
/Naaah.
I just ask -- can you wear different hat? ;-)
There are 3 others (Master-Hysteric-University). But I prefer mine (Analyst).
\\Ahhh, a successful mission then! Nothing screams a CIA/MI-6 (Or KGB turncoat) PsyOp like "operational success". Even when it doesn't originate in the US(?).
Hah... so that is CIA made that Election Committee of Ukraine... to screw that votes calculations????
And not Yanukovich bribed him. ;-P
Or... that was CIA that corrupted Yanukovich? :-)))))))
Or... they corrupted his predecessor???
Or... Yeah... I know!!! That was done THROUGH corruption of Gorbi... to make him to break up USSR.
No... that was Lenin... CIA was behind him.
No... that is Ivan Terrible... CIA from the Future, after inventing Time Machine -- slipped back in time with their heinous plan of corruption of R-AH-Z-Z-I-A!!!
Now I know THE TRUTH!!!!!!!! %-))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))
Thank you for opening my eyes.
\\I said smart.
ROFL!
Like Ethan Hunt? ;-P
\\Russia's been weakened? I look forward to the victory parade, then. ;)
But still able to settle Sucker's Punch.
Nukelar one. ;-P
\\\\So how do you spell A-Z-O-V?
/Mariupol... probably.
\\I was thinking pre-2022 Donbass.
Yawn.
Same.
You just DUNNO even such smallest trivia.
WHY they called Azov in the first place.
\\If Putin moved to Kyiv and ruled from there, what would THAT be? Russians would no longer obey? What's a King? Emperor? A central (rather than federated) decisionmaker.
In person?
Or... through his imperial bureacracy? ;-P
\\Just not at the same "demography" collapse point.
Nothing biggy.
Couple of "Poseidons" can fix it.
\\Except we're like an amoeba slurping up everything and crossing our fingers that it won't kill us.
And same as amoebas... we have taxises. ;-P
\\\\And you greatly outnumbered the "Russians" in Donbass/ Luhansk, so they called in "reinforcements".
/Easy to achieve -- outnumber some small group of SpecOps operatives. ;-P
\\...until the reinforcements arrive. */*
THAT'S IT!
\\Only to those lacking confidence in their cause & arguments to acknowledge certain truths.
Pft!
\\Putin now knows the extent to which he was despised by the G-7 Club, despite all his previous promises of conform.
False and hypocritical.
Yeah... he know price of his "loyalty".
Unlike gullible westerners... that still think they can "tame" him. :-)))))
\\Why would I if ends were inpermanent and unsustainable and means but temporary and changeable?
Hmmmmm....
\\The CIA manipulator's hand is so far up Ukraine's B*tt that you don't even feel it any more. :(
:-))))))))))))))))))))))))))
\\Surely you have been programmed if you both accept and internalize such trivia. I look forward to meeting future programmers of quebits for quantum computers, Q. For you are far too binary/ "digital".
Pft!
\\\\Difference between modern father (fascist) and totalitarian post-modern father (communist).
/:-))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))
\\The father post is ^^^above^^^. ;)
Sorry.
I'm trying.
And probably am too good in it...
but, still, I cannot read out such a vague refs... :-(((
\\Weren't YOU the one into Google Maps satellite pictures? Or did the OSCE monitors only fall into crater holes on your side of it?
Still full of counter-factual misconception... that that craters are on the both side???
Becuase of somevague "tit-4-tat" ideas?
Yawn.
\\But I prefer mine (Analyst).
Pft!
Which are ignorant of elementary trivias??? :-)))))))
Oh... I see. Your foretelling tool is not tarot cards... but some lacanian knots. ;-P
\\Ahhh, a successful mission then! Nothing screams a CIA/MI-6 (Or KGB turncoat) PsyOp like "operational success". Even when it doesn't originate in the US(?).
/Hah... so that is CIA made that Election Committee of Ukraine... to screw that votes calculations????
And not Yanukovich bribed him. ;-P
Or... that was CIA that corrupted Yanukovich? :-)))))))
Or... they corrupted his predecessor???
Or... Yeah... I know!!! That was done THROUGH corruption of Gorbi... to make him to break up USSR.
No... that was Lenin... CIA was behind him.
No... that is Ivan Terrible... CIA from the Future, after inventing Time Machine -- slipped back in time with their heinous plan of corruption of R-AH-Z-Z-I-A!!!
Now I know THE TRUTH!!!!!!!! %-))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))
Thank you for opening my eyes.
CIA can't recruit double agents to collect kompromat on elected leaders? Is it against the rules?
\\I said smart.
/ROFL!
Like Ethan Hunt? ;-P
More Jack Ryan.
\\Russia's been weakened? I look forward to the victory parade, then. ;)
/But still able to settle Sucker's Punch.
Nukelar one. ;-P
Then we'll drink Vodka together in hell. :)
\\\\So how do you spell A-Z-O-V?
/Mariupol... probably.
\\I was thinking pre-2022 Donbass.
/Yawn.
Same.
You just DUNNO even such smallest trivia.
WHY they called Azov in the first place.
After Sea of Azov? Town of Azov? A Nazi named Azov? ;)
\\If Putin moved to Kyiv and ruled from there, what would THAT be? Russians would no longer obey? What's a King? Emperor? A central (rather than federated) decisionmaker.
/In person?
Or... through his imperial bureacracy? ;-P
In person, of course. He's not going to listen to any idiot in Kyiv from Moscow. I doubt he even likes to 'Facetime'. I know I don't.
\\Just not at the same "demography" collapse point.
/Nothing biggy.
Couple of "Poseidons" can fix it.
Let me know when the tidal wave reaches Harford County and pushes up the Susquehana.
\\Except we're like an amoeba slurping up everything and crossing our fingers that it won't kill us.
/And same as amoebas... we have taxises. ;-P
Are they donut shaped? Covered in BBQ sauce?
\\\\And you greatly outnumbered the "Russians" in Donbass/ Luhansk, so they called in "reinforcements".
/Easy to achieve -- outnumber some small group of SpecOps operatives. ;-P
\\...until the reinforcements arrive. */*
THAT'S IT!
...just lower the draft age to 16.
\\Only to those lacking confidence in their cause & arguments to acknowledge certain truths.
/Pft!
Okay, courage, too.
\\Putin now knows the extent to which he was despised by the G-7 Club, despite all his previous promises of conform.
/False and hypocritical.
Yeah... he know price of his "loyalty".
Unlike gullible westerners... that still think they can "tame" him. :-)))))
Tame him? Did Zeus tame the titans?
\\Why would I if ends were inpermanent and unsustainable and means but temporary and changeable?
/Hmmmmm....
2B or not 2B. Which is the hotel room?
\\The CIA manipulator's hand is so far up Ukraine's B*tt that you don't even feel it any more. :(
/:-))))))))))))))))))))))))))
Hello, Fisty McUkraine.
\\\\Difference between modern father (fascist) and totalitarian post-modern father (communist).
/:-))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))
\\The father post is ^^^above^^^. ;)
/Sorry.
I'm trying.
And probably am too good in it...
but, still, I cannot read out such a vague refs... :-(((
That's okay. I enjoy repeating myself. Nothing satisfies so much as listening to one's-self talk. :)
\\Weren't YOU the one into Google Maps satellite pictures? Or did the OSCE monitors only fall into crater holes on your side of it?
/Still full of counter-factual misconception... that that craters are on the both side???
Becuase of somevague "tit-4-tat" ideas?
Yawn.
Then you need no more artillery shells? That should save us $1b or two. Make a note to take it off the wish list.
\\But I prefer mine (Analyst).
/Pft!
Which are ignorant of elementary trivias??? :-)))))))
Oh... I see. Your foretelling tool is not tarot cards... but some lacanian knots. ;-P
Borromean. So more perception, from a certain Lacanian perspective.
\\CIA can't recruit double agents to collect kompromat on elected leaders? Is it against the rules?
"Kompromat"????
And how it working?
On dRump, for example. ;-P
\\\\I said smart.
/ROFL!
Like Ethan Hunt? ;-P
\\More Jack Ryan.
Even more ROFL!
You really didn't watch film/read book of decent spying story. ;-P
\\Then we'll drink Vodka together in hell. :)
Naaah.
Your sissy-pussy generals... will NOT do retaliation strike. ;-P
Because? Because "if you survive, we all survive". :-))))))
\\After Sea of Azov? Town of Azov? A Nazi named Azov? ;)
That's for self-studying. ;-P
\\In person, of course.
Bu-ga-gah! :-))))))))))))))))))))))))
\\Let me know when the tidal wave reaches Harford County and pushes up the Susquehana.
Still taking it (too) personal? :-(
A taxis (from Ancient Greek τάξις (táxis) 'arrangement, order'; pl. : taxes /ˈtæksiːz/) is the movement of an organism in response to a stimulus such as light or the presence of food.
Taxis - Wikipedia
Wikipedia
https://en.wikipedia.org › wiki › Taxis
\\\\Only to those lacking confidence in their cause & arguments to acknowledge certain truths.
/Pft!
\\Okay, courage, too.
Hmmmm....
\\\\Putin now knows the extent to which he was despised by the G-7 Club, despite all his previous promises of conform.
/False and hypocritical.
Yeah... he know price of his "loyalty".
Unlike gullible westerners... that still think they can "tame" him. :-)))))
\\Tame him? Did Zeus tame the titans?
There's quote marks. ("").
They -- meaningful.
\\That's okay. I enjoy repeating myself. Nothing satisfies so much as listening to one's-self talk. :)
Suit yourself, then.
\\Then you need no more artillery shells? That should save us $1b or two. Make a note to take it off the wish list.
I... would like to see that trick. ;-P
How'd you order around Great America POTUS, all mighty Senators and whole army of DC bueraucrats. ;-P
Trully... heroic act fit of Hercule. ;-P
\\Borromean. So more perception, from a certain Lacanian perspective.
Some more profound tool of self-fooling? ;-P
Sorry, my toolbox is already full of USEFUL tools.
And all such "smarty" tools I encountered are already in the corner. With other scraps.
"
It is comprised of the three orders: Imaginary, Symbolic, Real. The Imaginary order is all about images (both imaginative and perceptual...
"
"symbolic"... that is images too. ;-P
That is only difference between visual and audial cortex...
visual developed for 2d, 3d and even 4d (pictures in motion) images.
While audial is 1d -- sound.
And that is just an evolutional trick -- to use 1d structures (voice, lang, text)... to structuralise all other imigery.
And there... is nothing "REAL"... in subjective.
Do you know "theory" of "impetus"? ;-)
The theory of impetus is an auxiliary or secondary theory of Aristotelian dynamics, put forth initially to explain projectile motion against gravity. It was introduced by John Philoponus in the 6th century, and elaborated by Nur ad-Din al-Bitruji at the end of the 12th century.
Theory of impetus - Wikipedia
Wikipedia
https://en.wikipedia.org › wiki › Theory_of_impetus
Theory of impetus - Wikipedia
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The theory states that objects that are caused to move by other objects acquire force that determines the kind of motion exhibited by the object, and that this force gradually dissipates over time.
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\\that the sublime Grail will reveal itself to be nothing but a piece of shit — is inscribed in the very kernel of the Lacanian objet petit a” (The Fragile Absolute, p. 23).
I devised a dirty joke to answer this... but, decided "I better not to".
\\CIA can't recruit double agents to collect kompromat on elected leaders? Is it against the rules?
/"Kompromat"????
And how it working?
On dRump, for example. ;-P
Ask the Deep State. They collected it and attempted to "vet" it through Christopher Steele. Turns out that they couldn't tell the difference between a gossip and an actual source.
\\\\I said smart.
/ROFL!
Like Ethan Hunt? ;-P
\\More Jack Ryan.
Even more ROFL!
You really didn't watch film/read book of decent spying story. ;-P
Is there one? James Fenimore Cooper's "The Spy"? Lafeyette's "Democracy in America"?
\\Then we'll drink Vodka together in hell. :)
/Naaah.
Your sissy-pussy generals... will NOT do retaliation strike. ;-P
Because? Because "if you survive, we all survive". :-))))))
Naaaah. Congress just crawls into its' bunkers with their mistresses and a few free-lance hookers (for variety). They're toast.
\\After Sea of Azov? Town of Azov? A Nazi named Azov? ;)
/That's for self-studying. ;-P
I'll pass then.
\\Let me know when the tidal wave reaches Harford County and pushes up the Susquehana.
/Still taking it (too) personal? :-(
Why not? You think I care what happens to DC? SOunds like the cleansing of the Augean Stables to me.
/A taxis (from Ancient Greek τάξις (táxis) 'arrangement, order'; pl. : taxes /ˈtæksiːz/) is the movement of an organism in response to a stimulus such as light or the presence of food.
/Taxis - Wikipedia
Wikipedia
https://en.wikipedia.org › wiki › Taxis
...or a post on TikTok...
\\\\Putin now knows the extent to which he was despised by the G-7 Club, despite all his previous promises of conform.
/False and hypocritical.
Yeah... he know price of his "loyalty".
Unlike gullible westerners... that still think they can "tame" him. :-)))))
\\Tame him? Did Zeus tame the titans?
/There's quote marks. ("").
They -- meaningful.
Indeed. Taming human nature would be quite a feat indeed.
\\That's okay. I enjoy repeating myself. Nothing satisfies so much as listening to one's-self talk. :)
/Suit yourself, then.
Then the rain (along with my tears) will continue to fall.
\\Then you need no more artillery shells? That should save us $1b or two. Make a note to take it off the wish list.
/I... would like to see that trick. ;-P
How'd you order around Great America POTUS, all mighty Senators and whole army of DC bueraucrats. ;-P
Trully... heroic act fit of Hercule. ;-P
My dad used to do it all the time. He's the one who had to track the "weapons" we were always selling to the Venezuela generals/Admirals ('66-'70). He was no Hercules. He was an USAF Sr. M/Sgt attached to the US Air Mission. He told everyone when the $ threshold had been reached.
\\Borromean. So more perception, from a certain Lacanian perspective.
/Some more profound tool of self-fooling? ;-P
Sorry, my toolbox is already full of USEFUL tools.
And all such "smarty" tools I encountered are already in the corner. With other scraps.
Sounds like a narrowed 'perception' (not a a broadened 'perspective')
/"
It is comprised of the three orders: Imaginary, Symbolic, Real. The Imaginary order is all about images (both imaginative and perceptual...
"
"symbolic"... that is images too. ;-P
That is only difference between visual and audial cortex...
visual developed for 2d, 3d and even 4d (pictures in motion) images.
While audial is 1d -- sound.
And that is just an evolutional trick -- to use 1d structures (voice, lang, text)... to structuralise all other imigery.
The 'symbolic' is the language embedded in the neural circuits made out of the wiring axons in your brain. Do you "hear" in flat Mono or stereo? Do you see in 2D, or 3D (w/depth perception with knowledge of distance? And if I give you a 1D Lat/Long set of coordinates, could you locate it on a 3D sphere? If I saw everything in 1D, I'd be Herbert Marcus's "One Dimensional Man". I'm more of an "Eros and Civilization" type of a guy (with a little 'Thanatos' thrown in). ;)
And there... is nothing "REAL"... in subjective.
Then we live inside a Simulation... A-a-a-a-c-k-k-k!!!!
/Do you know "theory" of "impetus"? ;-)
...
The theory states that objects that are caused to move by other objects acquire force that determines the kind of motion exhibited by the object, and that this force gradually dissipates over time.
So what does the theory say of "subjects" (non-objects)? Are human beings objects or subjects? If predictable, they're one. If they behave non-physically (in defiance of the laws of "physics" ie- fly, and unpredictably... they're the other. Hence the Sciences/Humanities distinction.
\\that the sublime Grail will reveal itself to be nothing but a piece of shit — is inscribed in the very kernel of the Lacanian objet petit a” (The Fragile Absolute, p. 23).
/I devised a dirty joke to answer this... but, decided "I better not to".
You're such a tease... Slavoj LOVES dirty jokes. As do I.
\\Turns out that they couldn't tell the difference between a gossip and an actual source.
Ha... ha-ha.... ha-ha-ha... :-))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))0
And you say that they MUST be successful. In foreign country. Of which they cannot make a clue. And have no leverage.
While they SO DAMN clueless... even in they own.
Yawn.
\\Is there one? James Fenimore Cooper's "The Spy"? Lafeyette's "Democracy in America"?
Well... that "Bureau" french series.
It prone on adding too much romantic... those frenchmen.
But other then that... it pretty damn correct (I assume, no own experience, of course).
Spy... is like cosmonaut/astronaut... can perform ONLy while there is backup... from his think tank.
\\I'll pass then.
Yeah.
Not edutainment enough. :-/
Talking about some imaginary "nazis"... is much more interesting. And even ronamtic/ :-)))
\\\\Let me know when the tidal wave reaches Harford County and pushes up the Susquehana.
/Still taking it (too) personal? :-(
\\Why not? You think I care what happens to DC? SOunds like the cleansing of the Augean Stables to me.
Just... not MY point...
\\Indeed. Taming human nature would be quite a feat indeed.
Naaah.
That there... pointed to self-delusion(s).
Yawn.
\\My dad used to do it all the time.
Cult of Fathers... thing, I still can't wrap my head around. Regarding USA culture. :-(
Because in my culture... it rediculed. Like with funny stories about children bragging about their fathers... among other children in a kindergarden yard.
\\Sounds like a narrowed 'perception' (not a a broadened 'perspective')
There is herbivores. And there is carnivores. Not for naught.
And even omnivores... do not eat shit. ;-P
\\The 'symbolic' is the language embedded in the neural circuits made out of the wiring axons in your brain.
Meaningless truism.
Yawn.
Or... maybe you KNOW shema... of that neural circuits? Naaaah???
That "Sounds like a narrowed 'perception' (not a a broadened 'perspective')"
Yawn.
\\Then we live inside a Simulation... A-a-a-a-c-k-k-k!!!!
Yeah.
We do.
Until it proven otherwise. ;-P
\\So what does the theory say of "subjects" (non-objects)?
Theory?
I dunno any scientifical theory talking about it. Are you?
\\ Are human beings objects or subjects? If predictable, they're one. If they behave non-physically (in defiance of the laws of "physics" ie- fly, and unpredictably... they're the other. Hence the Sciences/Humanities distinction.
Hmmmm...
\\You're such a tease... Slavoj LOVES dirty jokes. As do I.
And I do not.
Just forced to it... by answering to a tone. :-(((((((((
\\Turns out that they couldn't tell the difference between a gossip and an actual source.
/Ha... ha-ha.... ha-ha-ha... :-))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))0
And you say that they MUST be successful. In foreign country. Of which they cannot make a clue. And have no leverage.
While they SO DAMN clueless... even in they own.
Yawn.
Confirmation bias. People believe what they "desire" to be true. And they "desire" Ukraine to defeat Russia. Pussy Riot will kill Putin and take over... right?
\\Is there one? James Fenimore Cooper's "The Spy"? Lafeyette's "Democracy in America"?
/Well... that "Bureau" french series.
It prone on adding too much romantic... those frenchmen.
But other then that... it pretty damn correct (I assume, no own experience, of course).
Spy... is like cosmonaut/astronaut... can perform ONLy while there is backup... from his think tank.
...the one sans "fears"? The one "flying the drone". Not the loner. The Spy? The "activated" sleeper, "awakened", after years of building his own "deep cover"?
\\I'll pass then.
/Yeah.
Not edutainment enough. :-/
Talking about some imaginary "nazis"... is much more interesting. And even ronamtic/ :-)))
Than cleaning toilets and mopping up "messes"? Always.
\\\\Let me know when the tidal wave reaches Harford County and pushes up the Susquehana.
/Still taking it (too) personal? :-(
\\Why not? You think I care what happens to DC? SOunds like the cleansing of the Augean Stables to me.
/Just... not MY point...
So what was you point again? That I should care about my enemies latest WMDs because he doesn't fear mine?
\\Indeed. Taming human nature would be quite a feat indeed.
/Naaah.
That there... pointed to self-delusion(s).
Yawn.
Can anything else tame it? Ever meet a musselman? He's a man who has ceased deluding himself. Like Lessing's son.
\\My dad used to do it all the time.
/Cult of Fathers... thing, I still can't wrap my head around. Regarding USA culture. :-(
Because in my culture... it rediculed. Like with funny stories about children bragging about their fathers... among other children in a kindergarden yard.
Yet it represents the psychological basis for all our belief in Law (Les noms du pere). That we will receive "justice" from it and not "just is" (alcoholic father beating the cr*p out of you). The origin of the self-delusions (Oedipus Complex). Now please excuse me while I kill the b*stard and then go f*ck my mother.
\\Sounds like a narrowed 'perception' (not a a broadened 'perspective')
/There is herbivores. And there is carnivores. Not for naught.
And even omnivores... do not eat shit. ;-P
And yet we all gotta eat. ;)
\\The 'symbolic' is the language embedded in the neural circuits made out of the wiring axons in your brain.
/Meaningless truism.
Yawn.
Or... maybe you KNOW shema... of that neural circuits? Naaaah???
That "Sounds like a narrowed 'perception' (not a a broadened 'perspective')"
Yawn.
Embedded in the "layers" of the neocortex. Sensory? Or Motor? I get a charge out of both. I should probably do a registration test on the test coupons though. Make sure all the "layers" were properly aligned during CCA fabrication. :(
\\Then we live inside a Simulation... A-a-a-a-c-k-k-k!!!!
/Yeah.
We do.
Until it proven otherwise. ;-P
Who needs proof? Or does the "I dunno" keep you perpetually suspended in a form of fetishistic disavowal and therefore perpetual "inactivity"?
\\So what does the theory say of "subjects" (non-objects)?
/Theory?
I dunno any scientifical theory talking about it. Are you?
How about humanistic ones? Humanities? You don't believe in them? You only believe in the "Science" as to why people obey (or don't) the Law (which is often arbitrary and tradition based and seldom "scientific")? You ignore all civilizational principals? Les non dupes errent!
\\ Are human beings objects or subjects? If predictable, they're one. If they behave non-physically (in defiance of the laws of "physics" ie- fly, and unpredictably... they're the other. Hence the Sciences/Humanities distinction.
/Hmmmm...
Scientific traditions? How long have those been around now?
\\You're such a tease... Slavoj LOVES dirty jokes. As do I.
/And I do not.
Just forced to it... by answering to a tone. :-(((((((((
You must hate the Army, then.
\\ And they "desire" Ukraine to defeat Russia.
And why opposite still not happened? ;-)
\\...the one sans "fears"? The one "flying the drone". Not the loner. The Spy? The "activated" sleeper, "awakened", after years of building his own "deep cover"?
You want to decide book by a cover, and movie by a trailer? ;-P
And that second... just not revealed backstory, because -- American. ;-P
\\So what was you point again? That I should care about my enemies latest WMDs because he doesn't fear mine?
Wasn't it was like that... through History?
And where's that "Lindy"? ;-)
\\Can anything else tame it? Ever meet a musselman? He's a man who has ceased deluding himself. Like Lessing's son.
Want easy answers?
\\ Now please excuse me while I kill the b*stard and then go f*ck my mother.
:-))))))))))))))))))))))))
\\And yet we all gotta eat. ;)
Yep.
SpaceShip Earth. Is one enormous Recycle Tank. ;-P
\\Who needs proof? Or does the "I dunno" keep you perpetually suspended in a form of fetishistic disavowal and therefore perpetual "inactivity"?
Not all questions are correct... and deserving answer.
\\How about humanistic ones? Humanities? You don't believe in them?
I called myself technologist. Really, why I did so? Just for lulz, probably.
\\Scientific traditions? How long have those been around now?
Yet one question non-deserving answer?
\\You must hate the Army, then.
What for?
\\ And they "desire" Ukraine to defeat Russia.
/And why opposite still not happened? ;-)
When was the last time they actually won a war? WWII? They're only hanging on now from the tenacity of the Ukrainians (soldiers sewn from the dragon's teeth).
\\...the one sans "fears"? The one "flying the drone". Not the loner. The Spy? The "activated" sleeper, "awakened", after years of building his own "deep cover"?
/You want to decide book by a cover, and movie by a trailer? ;-P
And that second... just not revealed backstory, because -- American. ;-P
Sorry, but I think they've done 5 Seasons. It takes time to watch 5 Seasons.
\\So what was you point again? That I should care about my enemies latest WMDs because he doesn't fear mine?
/Wasn't it was like that... through History?
And where's that "Lindy"? ;-)
Lindy and History say "don't worry". But given the current American leadership? I won't be able to turn that around until November.
\\Can anything else tame it? Ever meet a musselman? He's a man who has ceased deluding himself. Like Lessing's son.
/Want easy answers?
The truth will do.
\\ Now please excuse me while I kill the b*stard and then go f*ck my mother.
/:-))))))))))))))))))))))))
Then I'd be just like Oedipus, my Sphinxian friend. And I'm not ready to travel to the Grove of the Euminides and disappear into Theseus' cave.
\\And yet we all gotta eat. ;)
/Yep.
SpaceShip Earth. Is one enormous Recycle Tank. ;-P
Does a Von Neumann Probe care? ;)
\\Who needs proof? Or does the "I dunno" keep you perpetually suspended in a form of fetishistic disavowal and therefore perpetual "inactivity"?
/Not all questions are correct... and deserving answer.
I'll keep that in mind.
\\How about humanistic ones? Humanities? You don't believe in them?
/I called myself technologist. Really, why I did so? Just for lulz, probably.
As good a reason (surplus joissance) as any.
\\Scientific traditions? How long have those been around now?
/Yet one question non-deserving answer?
Today's "Day Labourer".. paid by the hour.
Nietzsche, "Gay Science"
Cause and Effect. We say it is "explanation "; but it is only in "description" that we are in advance of the older stages of knowledge and science. We describe better, we explain just as little as our predecessors. We have discovered a manifold succession where the naive man and investigator of older cultures saw only two things, "cause" and "effect,"as it was said; we have perfected the conception of becoming, but have not got a knowledge of what is above and behind the conception. The series of "causes" stands before us much more complete in every case; we conclude that this and that must first precede in order that that other may follow - but we have not grasped anything thereby. The peculiarity, for example, in every chemical process seems a "miracle," the same as before, just like all locomotion; nobody has "explained" impulse. How could we ever explain? We operate only with things which do not exist, with lines, surfaces, bodies, atoms, divisible times, divisible spaces - how can explanation ever be possible when we first make everything a conception, our conception? It is sufficient to regard science as the exactest humanizing of things that is possible; we always learn to describe ourselves more accurately by describing things and their successions. Cause and effect: there is probably never any such duality; in fact there is a continuum before us, from which we isolate a few portions - just as we always observe a motion as isolated points, and therefore do not properly see it, but infer it. The abruptness with which many effects take place leads us into error; it is however only an abruptness for us. There is an infinite multitude of processes in that abrupt moment which escape us. An intellect which could see cause and effect as a continuum, which could see the flux of events not according to our mode of perception, as things arbitrarily separated and broken - would throw aside the conception of cause and effect, and would deny all conditionality.
\\You must hate the Army, then.
What for?
Obscenity/Swearing is everywhere. It's the only thing that makes the Army "tolerable".
\\When was the last time they actually won a war? WWII?
Well... with heavy help from USA. Like providing nearly 50% of all needed goodies... for that "only our Victory".
Yawn.
And that... without saying a word about Anglo-American bombing Reich. And without Second Front.
But still... that is NOT USA "only our Victory".
Because... USA alone would not be able to provide all that cannon fodder.
\\They're only hanging on now from the tenacity of the Ukrainians (soldiers sewn from the dragon's teeth).
BS.
It's all vice versa.
Russians... still have ability to proceed. Because of absolutelly relentless "hiring" more and more of that "dragon's teeth".
Like... they already "conscripted" nearly all of amount of their prisons inhabitants (win-win idea -- no need to feed em in prisons + no need to pay em as soldiers... as they do not live for too long as ones).
And now they filling their rows with some Nepals, Cubans and who know what else critters from world wide.
While Great Generalissimo Zelensky... hesitating to proclaim conscription with firm number conscripts stated... and trying to *FIX* it without rising number of soldiers... because it still want to be re-elect.
That is... that tragedy/farce you was asking for.
\\Sorry, but I think they've done 5 Seasons. It takes time to watch 5 Seasons.
Well... it worthy that time.
They revealed it in all dire details.
And treacherous nature of that work. And nasty behavior of all involved. And mind and psyche breaking...
Pretty much like encyclopedia... and with modern vibes. (like cyber-spying showed... with quote little amount of usual in Ams "spy-stories" techno-BS)
\\But given the current American leadership? I won't be able to turn that around until November.
As I said... only with NEW techs... you can try to fix anything.
As current problems arised... because of NEW techs stalling -- all shitholes leader, that was consumed with need to run after leader -- USA.
Suddenly realised -- that that leader NOT running any more.
And as such, they started thinking... stooopid, that they can out-run you. ;-P
But... you leadership behavior... showing, that they not exactly THAT stooopid.
:-(((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((9
\\\\Can anything else tame it? Ever meet a musselman? He's a man who has ceased deluding himself. Like Lessing's son.
/Want easy answers?
\\The truth will do.
Truth... NEVER easy.
\\Does a Von Neumann Probe care? ;)
Dragons and Sonic Hadghog... do not care too. ;-P
Hint, noted? ;-)
\\I'll keep that in mind.
That's... great!
\\Obscenity/Swearing is everywhere. It's the only thing that makes the Army "tolerable".
It... depends on army... I think.
\\We operate only with things which do not exist, with lines, surfaces, bodies, atoms, divisible times, divisible spaces
Not anymore. ;-P
Now we have bytes... that surely exist -- inside computer. ;-)
That's why... "wizdoms of past... tend to grow inprecise and even outdated... with time". ;-P
\\There is an infinite multitude of processes in that abrupt moment which escape us.
Not infinite.
Yawn.
\\An intellect which could see cause and effect as a continuum, which could see the flux of events not according to our mode of perception, as things arbitrarily separated and broken - would throw aside the conception of cause and effect, and would deny all conditionality.
And it renders this as BS.
Yawn.
As in Wrong Preassumption -- Wrong Conclusion.
Garbage In, Garbage Out.
\\When was the last time they actually won a war? WWII?
/Well... with heavy help from USA. Like providing nearly 50% of all needed goodies... for that "only our Victory".
Yawn.
And that... without saying a word about Anglo-American bombing Reich. And without Second Front.
But still... that is NOT USA "only our Victory".
Because... USA alone would not be able to provide all that cannon fodder.
Only World War II: 405,399. Just under the US Civil War of 620,000. Still, not even close to the USSRs 8,800,000-10,700,000 military and 12,000,000 civilians.
So why should we hate the Russians now?
\\They're only hanging on now from the tenacity of the Ukrainians (soldiers sewn from the dragon's teeth).
/BS.
It's all vice versa.
Russians... still have ability to proceed. Because of absolutelly relentless "hiring" more and more of that "dragon's teeth".
Like... they already "conscripted" nearly all of amount of their prisons inhabitants (win-win idea -- no need to feed em in prisons + no need to pay em as soldiers... as they do not live for too long as ones).
And now they filling their rows with some Nepals, Cubans and who know what else critters from world wide.
While Great Generalissimo Zelensky... hesitating to proclaim conscription with firm number conscripts stated... and trying to *FIX* it without rising number of soldiers... because it still want to be re-elect.
That is... that tragedy/farce you was asking for.
And now you understand the genius of bin Laden, recruiting and training foreign "jihadi's" from the Islamic Supra-National Ummah for Afgan battles (instead of local Afghans). Islamic brotherhood/ Sunni/ Pakistani "Taliban" fanatics, fodder to be used against USSR and later Yugoslavia/Bosnia, then the Great Satan (9/11).
And Zelensky extending "tour" lengths, like USAAF Bomber Command in WWII making rotation length 25 mission, condemning 3 of every 4 USAAF aviators to death. The chance of surviving 25 missions was just 25%. The United States built 12,731 B-17 bombers before and during World War II, and 4,735 of them were lost to accidents and the enemy before all was said and done, a loss rate of more than 37%. In Vietnam, US conscripts only served 1 year tours and had an overall 76% survival rate. Iraq/Afghanistan was 90%.
And I didn't ask for it. You and my Neocon/ CIA sweet-talkers did. Me, I'm a Paleocon.
\\Sorry, but I think they've done 5 Seasons. It takes time to watch 5 Seasons.
/Well... it worthy that time.
They revealed it in all dire details.
And treacherous nature of that work. And nasty behavior of all involved. And mind and psyche breaking...
Pretty much like encyclopedia... and with modern vibes. (like cyber-spying showed... with quote little amount of usual in Ams "spy-stories" techno-BS)
I'll have to find out where it's Streaming. Currently you are able to watch "The Bureau" streaming on AMC+ Amazon Channel, AMC Plus Apple TV Channel , Hoopla, Sundance Now or buy it as download on Vudu, Apple TV, Google Play Movies, Amazon Video.
I guess I need to pass. :(((( I won't pay $2 a pop on Apple TV.
\\But given the current American leadership? I won't be able to turn that around until November.
/As I said... only with NEW techs... you can try to fix anything.
As current problems arised... because of NEW techs stalling -- all shitholes leader, that was consumed with need to run after leader -- USA.
Suddenly realised -- that that leader NOT running any more.
And as such, they started thinking... stooopid, that they can out-run you. ;-P
But... you leadership behavior... showing, that they not exactly THAT stooopid.
:-(((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((9
There's a reason why new techs are falling. Corporations are capturing and killing all economic competition and government is capturing and killing all sources of R&D (University/Government/Defense) in the name of "Normal (and NOT Revolutionary) Science". It's why we're trapped in the current stupid AGW economic and scientific death-loop. It's "efficient".
\\\\Can anything else tame it? Ever meet a musselman? He's a man who has ceased deluding himself. Like Lessing's son.
/Want easy answers?
\\The truth will do.
/Truth... NEVER easy.
But ignoring problems is (by attributing them to fictious 'causes'). Problem is, addressing the symptom of a disease never cures it.
\\Does a Von Neumann Probe care? ;)
/Dragons and Sonic Hadghog... do not care too. ;-P
Hint, noted? ;-)
\\I'll keep that in mind.
/That's... great!
@@
\\Obscenity/Swearing is everywhere. It's the only thing that makes the Army "tolerable".
/It... depends on army... I think.
Does it? I'd guess that maintaining an "ironic distance" from the killing would be a necessary element.
\\We operate only with things which do not exist, with lines, surfaces, bodies, atoms, divisible times, divisible spaces
/Not anymore. ;-P
Now we have bytes... that surely exist -- inside computer. ;-)
That's why... "wizdoms of past... tend to grow inprecise and even outdated... with time". ;-P
Bytes aren't "atoms" (electrons-"bodies") moving about on silicon and copper/ gold "surfaces" synched to "divisible times" and stored in "divisible spaces"? Have you ever "seen" an actual "byte"? Observed the quantum processes Involved? Do you know why, every so often, your computer "crashes" and must be re-booted? Sounds like some "uncertainty" remains.
\\There is an infinite multitude of processes in that abrupt moment which escape us.
/Not infinite.
Yawn.
Sure? We can occassionally observe "photons" being discharged as an orbital electron changes its' state, but do we always observe the tau, electron, and muon neutrinos constantly flying about us as well? What sub-particles also escape our detection inside the Large Hadron Collider and its' Detectors (with energy states too large or too small to measure)?
\\An intellect which could see cause and effect as a continuum, which could see the flux of events not according to our mode of perception, as things arbitrarily separated and broken - would throw aside the conception of cause and effect, and would deny all conditionality.
/And it renders this as BS.
Yawn.
As in Wrong Preassumption -- Wrong Conclusion.
Garbage In, Garbage Out.
Seeing the continuum, its' what computer "animations" and "visualizations" are for. But even then, they only observe a 'part' and never the 'whole'. :P
\\So why should we hate the Russians now?
Well... then wait for Pearl Harbor... 2.0.
Yawn.
\\And now you understand the genius of bin Laden
Hah. around 1% of all humanity have no better idea than go somewhere... where'd they be free to kill.
\\And I didn't ask for it. You and my Neocon/ CIA sweet-talkers did. Me, I'm a Paleocon.
Do not throw stones... while you are in a glass house.
\\I'll have to find out where it's Streaming.
It seems like you checked only first dozen of Google search output...
Well... there is many ways of how to accomplish it: IPTV, torrents, direct download.
"
The bureau. It sounds like a TV series, but in fact it's a team of people within Parliament. Here is what they do
"
\\There's a reason why new techs are falling. Corporations are capturing and killing all economic competition and government is capturing and killing all sources of R&D (University/Government/Defense) in the name of "Normal (and NOT Revolutionary) Science". It's why we're trapped in the current stupid AGW economic and scientific death-loop. It's "efficient".
Naaaah.
The reason is much deeper.
In structure of the World.
\\But ignoring problems is (by attributing them to fictious 'causes'). Problem is, addressing the symptom of a disease never cures it.
Yap!
Zat said Stanislav Lem. ;-P
\\"ironic distance" from the killing would be a necessary element.
Or... look at it through termo-sensors, some AI facilitated markings on the map... where you just need to send killing drones. ;-P
\\Have you ever "seen" an actual "byte"?
Yeah. I do.
Every time I use hex-editor. ;-P
\\Observed the quantum processes Involved?
EVERYTHING is quantum, remember?
So... yeah.
I saw a rain and a rainbow (quantum effect). And like to watch fire burning (quantum effect too). ;-P
\\Do you know why, every so often, your computer "crashes" and must be re-booted?
Yeah.
Electricity surges. Or overheating. Or... plug accidentally pulled out. ;-P
\\Sounds like some "uncertainty" remains.
ALWAYS!
\\\\There is an infinite multitude of processes in that abrupt moment which escape us.
/Not infinite.
Yawn.
\\Sure?
Yes.
Because I am pupil of Cantor too. ;-P
\\Seeing the continuum, its' what computer "animations" and "visualizations" are for. But even then, they only observe a 'part' and never the 'whole'. :P
Yawn.
Self-deception.
That we can perceive whole....
\\So why should we hate the Russians now?
/Well... then wait for Pearl Harbor... 2.0.
Yawn.
Happening before or after the 'next' Colour Revolution/ NATO expansion?
\\And now you understand the genius of bin Laden
/Hah. around 1% of all humanity have no better idea than go somewhere... where'd they be free to kill.
Which is why an "all volunteer" force is sometimes inadequate and conscription must be used to raise the numbers above that 1+something %.
\\And I didn't ask for it. You and my Neocon/ CIA sweet-talkers did. Me, I'm a Paleocon.
/Do not throw stones... while you are in a glass house.
They threw them first (Trump-Russia). Tit-4-Tat time.
\\I'll have to find out where it's Streaming.
/It seems like you checked only first dozen of Google search output...
Well... there is many ways of how to accomplish it: IPTV, torrents, direct download.
"
The bureau. It sounds like a TV series, but in fact it's a team of people within Parliament. Here is what they do
"
Yes, there may be "ways". I'm not motivated enough to explore them. I hate tech.
\\There's a reason why new techs are falling. Corporations are capturing and killing all economic competition and government is capturing and killing all sources of R&D (University/Government/Defense) in the name of "Normal (and NOT Revolutionary) Science". It's why we're trapped in the current stupid AGW economic and scientific death-loop. It's "efficient".
/Naaaah.
The reason is much deeper.
In structure of the World.
It's filled with *ssholes? I already knew that.
\\But ignoring problems is (by attributing them to fictious 'causes'). Problem is, addressing the symptom of a disease never cures it.
/Yap!
Zat said Stanislav Lem. ;-P
Award him another Nebula! Hugo?
\\"ironic distance" from the killing would be a necessary element.
/Or... look at it through termo-sensors, some AI facilitated markings on the map... where you just need to send killing drones. ;-P
Physical distance works, too.
\\Have you ever "seen" an actual "byte"?
/Yeah. I do.
Every time I use hex-editor. ;-P
A chain of signifiers is not the signified.
\\Observed the quantum processes Involved?
/EVERYTHING is quantum, remember?
So... yeah.
I saw a rain and a rainbow (quantum effect). And like to watch fire burning (quantum effect too). ;-P
Symptoms (effects). ;P
\\Do you know why, every so often, your computer "crashes" and must be re-booted?
/Yeah.
Electricity surges. Or overheating. Or... plug accidentally pulled out. ;-P
...or single-event upsets.
\\Sounds like some "uncertainty" remains.
/ALWAYS!
...said Heisenberg.
\\\\There is an infinite multitude of processes in that abrupt moment which escape us.
/Not infinite.
Yawn.
\\Sure?
Yes.
Because I am pupil of Cantor too. ;-P
Semantics.
\\Seeing the continuum, its' what computer "animations" and "visualizations" are for. But even then, they only observe a 'part' and never the 'whole'. :P
/Yawn.
Self-deception.
That we can perceive whole....
..and yet the 'grails' pursuit continues (grand unified theory).
\\Happening before or after the 'next' Colour Revolution/ NATO expansion?
Want "interesting times"(as in that chinese saying) to come and bite your ass first?;-P
\\Which is why an "all volunteer" force is sometimes inadequate and conscription must be used to raise the numbers above that 1+something %.
BTW.
Have you read that other Machiavelli's work... exactly about conscription. ;-)
\\They threw them first (Trump-Russia). Tit-4-Tat time.
Then... stop throwing glass shard. ;-P
\\Yes, there may be "ways". I'm not motivated enough to explore them. I hate tech.
You just dunno how to cook it. ;-P
\\It's filled with *ssholes? I already knew that.
Naaah.
Just... not everything is possible.
\\Award him another Nebula! Hugo?
Old story...
\\\\Have you ever "seen" an actual "byte"?
/Yeah. I do.
Every time I use hex-editor. ;-P
\\A chain of signifiers is not the signified.
Go say that when some smarty hacker would snatch your bank account. ;-P
\\Symptoms (effects). ;P
????
\\Because I am pupil of Cantor too. ;-P
\\Semantics.
???
\\..and yet the 'grails' pursuit continues (grand unified theory).
Why not???
As far as one'd have a good pay for that... that, it would gladly do for free. ;-P
\\Happening before or after the 'next' Colour Revolution/ NATO expansion?
/Want "interesting times"(as in that chinese saying) to come and bite your ass first?;-P
Maybe we should stop starting wars of choice and save some equipment. Aren't we doing another colour revolution in Bulgaria or some-such?
\\Which is why an "all volunteer" force is sometimes inadequate and conscription must be used to raise the numbers above that 1+something %.
/BTW.
Have you read that other Machiavelli's work... exactly about conscription. ;-)
I've read all of Machiavelli's works. He knew what 'virtu' was.
\\They threw them first (Trump-Russia). Tit-4-Tat time.
/Then... stop throwing glass shard. ;-P
As they say in Caracas. Plata o plomo?
\\Yes, there may be "ways". I'm not motivated enough to explore them. I hate tech.
/You just dunno how to cook it. ;-P
Conservative, n: A statesman who is enamored of existing evils, as distinguished from the Liberal who wishes to replace them with others.
- Ambrose Bierce
\\It's filled with *ssholes? I already knew that.
/Naaah.
Just... not everything is possible.
They are until some dissatisfied *sshole screws things up. "Look at me, I'm going to protest Palestine..."
\\Award him another Nebula! Hugo?
/Old story...
We Americans aren't the easiest people to get along with. We know better about EVERYTHING... @@
\\\\Have you ever "seen" an actual "byte"?
/Yeah. I do.
Every time I use hex-editor. ;-P
\\A chain of signifiers is not the signified.
/Go say that when some smarty hacker would snatch your bank account. ;-P
touche! But only in hyper-real environments.
\\Symptoms (effects). ;P
/????
Photons passing through water vapour. Photons escaping a chemical reaction. So where'd the photons come from?
\\Because I am pupil of Cantor too. ;-P
\\Semantics.
/???
"My infinite is bigger than yours" paradox! Or did you capture ALL the processes? Zero escaped your notice? I'd like to see THAT proof.
\\..and yet the 'grails' pursuit continues (grand unified theory).
/Why not???
As far as one'd have a good pay for that... that, it would gladly do for free. ;-P
Insert Nietzsche critique of science paid by the hour here. Grub Street science. Post-Docs are fools.
Okay, not Bulgaria, Georgia...
I guess you must need a 2nd front against Russia. @@
This is what science paid by the hour get you.
\\I guess you must need a 2nd front against Russia. @@
And USA... need to battle in Atlantic and Pacific simultaneously... to match with old glory? ;-P
\\This is what science paid by the hour get you.
You already have anekdote about PHD raving "how can it be, that any student can do it, while I can't"... what more do you want? ;-P
\\Maybe we should stop starting wars of choice and save some equipment. Aren't we doing another colour revolution in Bulgaria or some-such?
Yeah... to be pruned out of self-deception... needs a wake up call.
Like Pearl Harbor.
\\Conservative, n: A statesman who is enamored of existing evils, as distinguished from the Liberal who wishes to replace them with others.
- Ambrose Bierce
Yeah.
DEMN-aligned folk. ;-p
That just want Build Back Better.
And SAME old good prezident. ;-P
Why you nasty rep-progressists trying to oppose to that hole desire and make it different? ;-P
\\We Americans aren't the easiest people to get along with. We know better about EVERYTHING... @@
:-)
Have you talked with any Russian? ;-P
Chinese?
\\touche! But only in hyper-real environments.
Quantum Mechanics!
\\\\Symptoms (effects). ;P
/????
\\Photons passing through water vapour. Photons escaping a chemical reaction. So where'd the photons come from?
Don't try to think about it... much.
You'll go crazy.
Or... will invent NEW theory. ;-P
\\"My infinite is bigger than yours" paradox! Or did you capture ALL the processes? Zero escaped your notice? I'd like to see THAT proof.
Then... read some Cantor.
\\I guess you must need a 2nd front against Russia. @@
/And USA... need to battle in Atlantic and Pacific simultaneously... to match with old glory? ;-P
Nah, they're still in the Atlantic. China's in the Pacific.
\\This is what science paid by the hour get you.
/You already have anekdote about PHD raving "how can it be, that any student can do it, while I can't"... what more do you want? ;-P
Then why do they insist upon turning up the signal, and drowning out the noise (with censorship) AND at the same injecting more noise into it? Preventing any signal coherence within the noise? Sounds like a Putin tactic.
\\Maybe we should stop starting wars of choice and save some equipment. Aren't we doing another colour revolution in Bulgaria or some-such?
/Yeah... to be pruned out of self-deception... needs a wake up call.
Like Pearl Harbor.
We're certainly recreating the conditions which lead to Japan's fatal decision to attack Pearl harbor.
\\Conservative, n: A statesman who is enamored of existing evils, as distinguished from the Liberal who wishes to replace them with others.
- Ambrose Bierce
/Yeah.
DEMN-aligned folk. ;-p
That just want Build Back Better.
And SAME old good prezident. ;-P
Why you nasty rep-progressists trying to oppose to that hole desire and make it different? ;-P
Why?
\\We Americans aren't the easiest people to get along with. We know better about EVERYTHING... @@
/:-)
Have you talked with any Russian? ;-P
Chinese?
Maybe that's why we treat them as "enemies". They CAN still say "no" to US.
\\touche! But only in hyper-real environments.
/Quantum Mechanics!
Do YOU live in a quantum world? I see no signs of dead/alive cats. ;)
\\\\Symptoms (effects). ;P
/????
\\Photons passing through water vapour. Photons escaping a chemical reaction. So where'd the photons come from?
/Don't try to think about it... much.
You'll go crazy.
Or... will invent NEW theory. ;-P
Already did (not invent, but accept). Got any Jungian archtypes?
\\"My infinite is bigger than yours" paradox! Or did you capture ALL the processes? Zero escaped your notice? I'd like to see THAT proof.
/Then... read some Cantor.
Why, is the absolute infinite a set? Then it's either not absolute, or its' finite. Again, semantics (has the same problem as mathematics):
Semantics is the study of the meaning of words and sentences. It uses the relations of linguistic forms to non-linguistic concepts and mental representations to explain how sentences are understood by native speakers.
Semantics can be broken down into the following three subcategories:
Formal semantics is the study of grammatical meaning in natural language. In other words, it intends to define the meaning of words and phrases based on its grammatical structure.
Conceptual semantics is the study of words at their core. It focuses on establishing universal definitions for words before they are taken into context.
Lexical semantics is the study of word meaning. It establishes meaning to words based on their relationships to other words in the sentence as well as their compositional structure.
\\\\I guess you must need a 2nd front against Russia. @@
/And USA... need to battle in Atlantic and Pacific simultaneously... to match with old glory? ;-P
\\Nah, they're still in the Atlantic. China's in the Pacific.
I thought my reference to Second World War... was apparent.
Yawn.
\\Then why do they insist upon turning up the signal, and drowning out the noise (with censorship) AND at the same injecting more noise into it? Preventing any signal coherence within the noise? Sounds like a Putin tactic.
YAP!
\\We're certainly recreating the conditions which lead to Japan's fatal decision to attack Pearl harbor.
You think so? :-)
\\Why you nasty rep-progressists trying to oppose to that hole desire and make it different? ;-P
\\Why?
That was rhetorical question -- from my side.
And of me... you asking some real deal one. One that such a miserly foreigner from far-far-away, hardly can make a clue (apart from advertising NEW techs)...
\\Maybe that's why we treat them as "enemies". They CAN still say "no" to US.
Afganistans?
Now even nigerians.
Or... you'll not admit hearing that "no"... if it'll not be done Joker Way -- whispering directly into your ear...
\\\\touche! But only in hyper-real environments.
/Quantum Mechanics!
\\Do YOU live in a quantum world? I see no signs of dead/alive cats. ;)
Heh...
that's because your eyes wide shut. To everything that is... DA-A-A-ANgerous!!!
Means... only one of slit in your double-slit open.
\\Already did (not invent, but accept). Got any Jungian archtypes?
Not impressive.
Yawn.
I know ones who produced 10 tomes... for very least. ;-P
\\Why, is the absolute infinite a set? Then it's either not absolute, or its' finite. Again, semantics (has the same problem as mathematics):
What's the problem with n+1???
Nikanne: Conceptual semantics
John Benjamins
https://benjamins.com › hop
The ultimate goal of conceptual semantics is an integrated theory of the human mind. The theory started out from generative linguistics, and therefore the model ...
Looks like... totally BS.
Yawn.
Thinking... is *NOT* linguistic phenomena.
\\\\I guess you must need a 2nd front against Russia. @@
/And USA... need to battle in Atlantic and Pacific simultaneously... to match with old glory? ;-P
\\Nah, they're still in the Atlantic. China's in the Pacific.
/I thought my reference to Second World War... was apparent.
Yawn.
As I mine, to Ukraine/Georgia. z-z-z-z-z-z-z!
\\Then why do they insist upon turning up the signal, and drowning out the noise (with censorship) AND at the same injecting more noise into it? Preventing any signal coherence within the noise? Sounds like a Putin tactic.
/YAP!
SO why are we imitating Putin? I suppose that when you battle monsters, you inevitably become one. (Nietzsche)
\\We're certainly recreating the conditions which lead to Japan's fatal decision to attack Pearl harbor.
/You think so? :-)
Bucharest Declaration? Most certainly.
\\Why you nasty rep-progressists trying to oppose to that hole desire and make it different? ;-P
\\Why?
/That was rhetorical question -- from my side.
And of me... you asking some real deal one. One that such a miserly foreigner from far-far-away, hardly can make a clue (apart from advertising NEW techs)...
I think we may've OD'd on the "new techs" already.
\\Maybe that's why we treat them as "enemies". They CAN still say "no" to US.
/Afganistans?
Now even nigerians.
Or... you'll not admit hearing that "no"... if it'll not be done Joker Way -- whispering directly into your ear...
As I'm a non-globalist, I say, "more power to them." Wakanda (USA) forever!
\\\\touche! But only in hyper-real environments.
/Quantum Mechanics!
\\Do YOU live in a quantum world? I see no signs of dead/alive cats. ;)
/Heh...
that's because your eyes wide shut. To everything that is... DA-A-A-ANgerous!!!
Means... only one of slit in your double-slit open.
Dangerous to who? And if they want to get busy, "molon labe".
\\Already did (not invent, but accept). Got any Jungian archtypes?
/Not impressive.
Yawn.
I know ones who produced 10 tomes... for very least. ;-P
Do I look like I'm in the tome business? I'm in the "learn what you can before you die" business.
\\Why, is the absolute infinite a set? Then it's either not absolute, or its' finite. Again, semantics (has the same problem as mathematics):
/What's the problem with n+1???
It's not "absolute" infinity. It's just a set member, and "sets" are finite.
/Nikanne: Conceptual semantics
John Benjamins
https://benjamins.com › hop
The ultimate goal of conceptual semantics is an integrated theory of the human mind. The theory started out from generative linguistics, and therefore the model ...
Looks like... totally BS.
Yawn.
...just like maths.
/Thinking... is *NOT* linguistic phenomena.
...but linguistics can certainly be a "part" of the thinking process. One part of virtue, not the "whole".
So why should Zelensky meet face-to face with Putin?
Levinas (a phenomenologist) says that "Ethics is Optics". It is visual perception without images that doesn't strive to become an object, concision and abstraction that characterize sight. Levinas, analogous to Heidegger, teaches us to see, and here enter optics: to see the face not as "something," but as an event. The face is the vector of the appeal, a movement of appeal.
...but then again, its' just a "thought".
\\As I mine, to Ukraine/Georgia. z-z-z-z-z-z-z!
And why do you care about Ukraine/Georgia... I, dunno????
\\SO why are we imitating Putin? I suppose that when you battle monsters, you inevitably become one. (Nietzsche)
Because... (my hypothesis) you understand their imperialistic desires... (like when blaming Azov -- just a volunteer filled militia force... being "nazi") and have NOTHING to empathize with Ukrainians/Georgians... or any other "miserly critters" which you trying to help with "demn-ok-ratsy". ;-P
\\\\We're certainly recreating the conditions which lead to Japan's fatal decision to attack Pearl harbor.
/You think so? :-)
\\Bucharest Declaration? Most certainly.
Dunno how it connects in your mind.
No, seriously.
I was not sitting behind desk in school... during history lessons. Was not sitting before TV... watching news and "edutainment". Not splitting dirty jacks... in backstreet.
Means... have quite not enough cultural understanding... to be on a same page, here.
\\I think we may've OD'd on the "new techs" already.
?????
\\As I'm a non-globalist, I say, "more power to them." Wakanda (USA) forever!
Yeah... for the battle with Tanos... would be more spectacular.
And who cares if half of beloved will perish...
there's ALWAYS will be Second Chance... to turn it all back... of course, that is promise.
Holy Saint dRump -- will come and rise em from dead... in the end of the days...
Yawn.
\\Dangerous to who? And if they want to get busy, "molon labe".
Isn't USA is Worldwide Empire?
\\ I'm in the "learn what you can before you die" business.
Not looks that way to me... sorry.
(wise suggestion: not everything deserve being learned)
\\It's not "absolute" infinity. It's just a set member, and "sets" are finite.
Not a problem -- you are always free to point to one. ;-P
\\...just like maths.
With one *tinsy*little* difference -- math -- Works! (same as Tech... well, in hands of savvy)
\\/Thinking... is *NOT* linguistic phenomena.
\\...but linguistics can certainly be a "part" of the thinking process. One part of virtue, not the "whole".
Is it?
Maybe that is question that need to be revealed FIRST... instead of postulating? ;-)
\\So why should Zelensky meet face-to face with Putin?
Dunno. You say.
How can I know from which premises it comes out???
BTW... he already tried that... result -- known.
So... "repeating same unsuccessful paths is a sign of idiot", they say -- so, is he an idiot???
\\As I mine, to Ukraine/Georgia. z-z-z-z-z-z-z!
/And why do you care about Ukraine/Georgia... I, dunno????
Because I, a miserly taxpayer, must PAY for all the stupidity. Let the American and European oligarch's pay for their own wars. They don't pay sh*t for taxes. But still they play the government 2-step. Privatize gains, publicize losses.
\\SO why are we imitating Putin? I suppose that when you battle monsters, you inevitably become one. (Nietzsche)
/Because... (my hypothesis) you understand their imperialistic desires... (like when blaming Azov -- just a volunteer filled militia force... being "nazi") and have NOTHING to empathize with Ukrainians/Georgians... or any other "miserly critters" which you trying to help with "demn-ok-ratsy". ;-P
I do not have to look them in the "Face" (Levinas). And Humanism isn't my "religion" (like of the demn-ok-rats). The Crusades have ALWAYS been for "suckers". And fyi - THAT's the problem with militias. They aren't "well ordered" and a minority of Ukrainian "fundamentalist nationalists" (Nazis) are allowed to run wild in the ranks. They have no "ironic distance" from killing their own people (Russians, like Jews in NAZI Germany). In fact, they ENJOY it. The Russians are "the problem"... if only they were expelled, Ukraine would perfect, harmonious and rich.
\\\\We're certainly recreating the conditions which lead to Japan's fatal decision to attack Pearl harbor.
/You think so? :-)
\\Bucharest Declaration? Most certainly.
/Dunno how it connects in your mind.
No, seriously.
I was not sitting behind desk in school... during history lessons. Was not sitting before TV... watching news and "edutainment". Not splitting dirty jacks... in backstreet.
Means... have quite not enough cultural understanding... to be on a same page, here.
President Franklin Delano Roosevelt made one of those escalating moves in July 1940 when he cut off shipments of scrap iron, steel, and aviation fuel to Japan even as he allowed American oil to continue flowing to the empire. Japan responded by entering resource-rich French Indochina, with permission from the government of Nazi-occupied France, and by cementing its alliance with Germany and Italy as a member of the Axis. In July 1941, Japan then moved into southern Indochina in preparation for an attack against both British Malaya, a source for rice, rubber, and tin, and the oil-rich Dutch East Indies. This prompted Roosevelt to freeze all Japanese assets in the United States on July 26, 1941, which effectively cut off Japan’s access to US oil.
That move pushed Japan to secretly ready its “Southern Operation,” a massive military attack that would target Great Britain’s large naval facility in Singapore and American installations in the Philippines and at Pearl Harbor, thus clearing a path for the conquest of the Dutch East Indies
The consequences of "economic sanctions". Japan is resource poor, and European colonialists had captured most of the resource-laden properties already (and through sanctions, unwilling to "share").
\\I think we may've OD'd on the "new techs" already.
/?????
Iron dome - shooting $1m ABMs to counter $10k unguided ballistics.
\\As I'm a non-globalist, I say, "more power to them." Wakanda (USA) forever!
/Yeah... for the battle with Tanos... would be more spectacular.
And who cares if half of beloved will perish...
there's ALWAYS will be Second Chance... to turn it all back... of course, that is promise.
Holy Saint dRump -- will come and rise em from dead... in the end of the days...
Yawn.
Tanos gotta be Tanos.
\\Dangerous to who? And if they want to get busy, "molon labe".
/Isn't USA is Worldwide Empire?
Not for long.
\\ I'm in the "learn what you can before you die" business.
/Not looks that way to me... sorry.
(wise suggestion: not everything deserve being learned)
Ignorance is bliss!
\\It's not "absolute" infinity. It's just a set member, and "sets" are finite.
/Not a problem -- you are always free to point to one. ;-P
If I could point to it, could you see the absolutely infinite? Then I simply point "up".
\\...just like maths.
/With one *tinsy*little* difference -- math -- Works! (same as Tech... well, in hands of savvy)
Words don't "work"? LOL! Plato, Divided line (As Plato explains in Book 7 (7.532e ff.), it is by dialectic that we rise from the cave of ignorance to noesis.)
\\/Thinking... is *NOT* linguistic phenomena.
\\...but linguistics can certainly be a "part" of the thinking process. One part of virtue, not the "whole".
/Is it?
Maybe that is question that need to be revealed FIRST... instead of postulating? ;-)
Refer to the answer above (Divided Line).
\\So why should Zelensky meet face-to face with Putin?
/Dunno. You say.
How can I know from which premises it comes out???
BTW... he already tried that... result -- known.
So... "repeating same unsuccessful paths is a sign of idiot", they say -- so, is he an idiot???
So Ukraine will suffer the fate of the Germans post WWII instead of their fate post WWI. *tsk-tsk*
Those who do not learn from history are condemned to repeat it. "To the LAST Ukrainian" then!
Hesiod, "Works and Days"
Now I will tell an ainos to kings, discerning as they presumably are.
This is what the hawk said to the nightingale, the one with the patterned voice, grasping her in his talons, carrying her far off into the clouds.
205
She in the meantime, pierced by the curved talons, was lamenting. But he spoke to her from his position of superior power:
“What daimōn makes you cry out this way? One who is far more powerful holds you fast. You will go wherever I take you, singer [poet] that you are. I can do what I wish with you: either make a meal out of you or let you go.
210
Foolish is the one who is ready to stand up to those who are more powerful. Such a person is deprived of victory, suffering pains in addition to the disgrace of defeat.” So spoke the swift-flying hawk, the long-winged bird.
You, Perses, must listen to dikē, and you must not make hubris thrive. For hubris is bad for the wretched mortal. A noble [esthlos] man cannot
215
easily bear the burden, and he is weighed down under it [hubris], incurring Atai. It is better to go the other way, towards the things of dikē. The dikē comes out prevailing over hubris in the end. The inept [nēpios] person learns only by going through the experience.
Horkos [‘Oath’ personified] runs in pursuit, catching up with crooked dikai,
220
and there is a clamor as Dikē is dragged off by men who take her wherever they want, devourers of gifts, as they sort out, with crooked dikai, what is or is not themis.
Weeping, she [Dikē] pursues the city and the haunts of its inhabitants. Invisible, she brings evil upon men who exile her and apportion her so as to make her crooked.
225
As for those who render straight dikai for xenoi and for local people alike, and who do not veer away from what is dikaion, for them, their city flourishes, and the inhabitants blossom.
Peace, the nurturer of young men, ranges about the land, and never do they have wretched war manifested for them by Zeus who sees far and wide.
230
Men who have straight dikē are never visited by Hunger or by atē. Instead, at feasts, they reap the rewards of the works that they industriously cared about. For them the earth bears much life-sustenance. On the mountains, the oak tree bears acorns at the top and bees in the middle. Their wooly sheep are laden with fleeces.
235
Their wives bear children resembling their fathers. They flourish with all good things, without fail. And they do not have to find their way home on ships, but the grain-giving land bears fruit.
But those who have evil hubris and wanton deeds on their minds for them the son of Kronos, wide-seeing Zeus, marks out dikē.
240
Many times it happens that an entire polis suffers the consequences on account of just one evil man who transgresses and plans reckless deeds.
For these men the son of Kronos brings down from the skies a great disaster, famine along with pestilence. And the people waste away.
\\Because I, a miserly taxpayer, must PAY for all the stupidity.
Instead of trying to NOT hire stooopid politics?
Yawn.
Then... you owned, because you do EXACTLy what they want of you.
Knock-knock, Neo... Matrix, have you.
\\ They don't pay sh*t for taxes.
That's BS.
Taxes... that's always people who paying em.
Because... corporation just rise prices, to accommodate for bigger taxes.
And... if prices became bigger than of concurrents from other countries (where taxes are lower)... then IN ADDITION for paying taxes, people struggle of stagnation (lower wages, lower employment).
\\And Humanism isn't my "religion" (like of the demn-ok-rats).
Oh... please. Hypocrite's "religion". :-)))))))
\\ a minority of Ukrainian "fundamentalist nationalists" (Nazis)
I'd like to see AT LEAST ONE... being demonstrated to me.
Before I die. ;-P
\\They have no "ironic distance" from killing their own people (Russians, like Jews in NAZI Germany).
Well...
Here https://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/estimated-number-of-jews-killed-in-the-final-solution
Looks like comprehensive list of killed Jews.
I'd like to see at least somewhat comprehensive about that "Russian killed by Ukrainian nazis".
Yawn.
For now.
There is comprehensive list of killed by RFia via indiscriminate bombing children of Ukraine.
Go ask Google yourself. Something like "UN report Ukraine killed children".
THAT militia children and relatives TOO.
But... you trying to oppose to their RIGHT of self-defense????
Or... what you trying to claim here????
Can you be more EXPLICIT... and comprehensive, if you could?
\\In fact, they ENJOY it.
Yeah.
RFians DO ENJOY killing Ukrainians.
I saw that in numerous vids. From their mass-media, TV, Internet and etc.
\\The Russians are "the problem"... if only they were expelled, Ukraine would perfect, harmonious and rich.
Yeah... because that is Ukraine and Ukrainians that occupied "historically Russian territories" and started bloody war... with threats to launch ICBMs and saying "if there'd be a World WITHOUT Ukraine... we do not need such World"... yes???? %-)))))
And... most important.
That is Ukraine.
Though there was Budapest Memorandum in accordance with which it was robbed of it all.
That have fleets of strategic bombers, nuclear submarines and ICBMs.
That was created. That was deployed. And still standing on-duty with vigilant readiness... while DIRECTED for one and only purpose -- to destroy cities of USA...
\\President Franklin Delano Roosevelt made one of those escalating moves in July 1940 when he cut off shipments of scrap iron,
Yep.
Sanctions against RFia... and now China... which they denounce as "unilateral and unfair".
Yawn.
Do you really need to turn back to me arguments that CONFiRM *MY* point??? %-)))
\\Iron dome - shooting $1m ABMs to counter $10k unguided ballistics.
And what it proves?
That... as Palestinians proposed it: "We killed 1000 of your people, you killed 10.000 of ours... let's call it EVEN"?????? %-))))))
\\Tanos gotta be Tanos.
Law of Unpredictable Consequences.
Yawn.
\\Not for long.
Then... why you trying to hold barbarians on your border... so desperately.
Allow em to come in.
For your Decline to be shorter and more decisive. ;-P
\\Ignorance is bliss!
Desho!
\\If I could point to it, could you see the absolutely infinite? Then I simply point "up".
Naaaah. Universe is just miserly 14 billions years old. And quite miserly in span. ;-P
\\Words don't "work"?
And how they "work"??? ;-)
\\Refer to the answer above (Divided Line).
Yawn.
Postulation it's a lame trick.
Imprecise. And outDATED. ;-P
\\So Ukraine will suffer the fate of the Germans post WWII instead of their fate post WWI. *tsk-tsk*
Will be split between Capitalists and Commies??? %-))))
\\Those who do not learn from history are condemned to repeat it. "To the LAST Ukrainian" then!
Yeah.
If Ukraine would surrender, it would re-live Purges, Golodomor and War decimation(s).
Yawn.
So... better NOT do anything about it. And just REPEAT history.
Till... NO Ukrainians will remain.
That will fix that "problem".
With such a "nazi" people Ukrainians... existing in this world...
\\ But he spoke to her from his position of superior power:
Ukraine?
To a miserly and lamenting while "pierced by the curved talons" Russia? %-)))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))
\\\\Those who do not learn from history are condemned to repeat it. "To the LAST Ukrainian" then!
\\Yeah.
\\If Ukraine would surrender, it would re-live Purges, Golodomor and War decimation(s).
That's... just "lack of experience to sympathize" and nothing else.
Just like that Jews that live in USA, and never was able to sympathize to their cousines from Germany, Poland and... Ukraine. Who gone with a smoke. But few survivors.
So now... today... they OPPOSE right of Israel to protect itself...
Yawn.
\\Foolish is the one who is ready to stand up to those who are more powerful. Such a person is deprived of victory, suffering pains in addition to the disgrace of defeat.” So spoke the swift-flying hawk, the long-winged bird.
:-))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))
Until grave worms will feast on it. ;-P
\\The inept [nēpios] person learns only by going through the experience.
True that. ;-P
\\\Their wives bear children resembling their fathers.
Ha-ha-ha-ha... those fools. That dunno about chromosomes and DNA. :-)))))))))))))))))))))))))
\\Many times it happens that an entire polis suffers the consequences on account of just one evil man who transgresses and plans reckless deeds.
Yap.
Zero-bama. dRump. Bi-demn. ;-P
\\For these men the son of Kronos brings down from the skies a great disaster, famine along with pestilence. And the people waste away.
Time tells no lies. ;-P
\\Because I, a miserly taxpayer, must PAY for all the stupidity.
/Instead of trying to NOT hire stooopid politics?
Yawn.
Then... you owned, because you do EXACTLy what they want of you.
Knock-knock, Neo... Matrix, have you.
Indeed. Locked in a bubble of interpassivity. "Oh, look, his balls are all dusty!"
G-r-r-r-r!
American "Hamlet"s
\\ They don't pay sh*t for taxes.
/That's BS.
Taxes... that's always people who paying em.
Because... corporation just rise prices, to accommodate for bigger taxes.
And... if prices became bigger than of concurrents from other countries (where taxes are lower)... then IN ADDITION for paying taxes, people struggle of stagnation (lower wages, lower employment).
But the corporate shareholder's/ investors pay zip for capital gains. Max 15% versus Max 35% for Income taxes. And the money bundlers (like Mitt Romney andd Investment Bankers) pay even LESS 10-12%. Income tax is a WORKERS tax. To keep the wage slaves in perpetual debt-slavery. If the investors and money bundlers want to "invest" in Ukraine, let them use their OWN money instead of adding to the national debt. "Privatize gains/ publicize losses," I know!
\\And Humanism isn't my "religion" (like of the demn-ok-rats).
Oh... please. Hypocrite's "religion". :-)))))))
Call it for what it is: Ethics... not "religion". A cynical disguise for hiding class differences and struggle
"Every effort to turn Ethics into a principle of thought and action is essentially religious... Ethics is a category of pious discourse.... We are left with a Pious discourse without piety. A spiritual supplement for incompetent governments, and a cultural sociology preached in line with the new style sermons in lieu of the late class struggle.... become like me, and I will respect your difference!"
- Emmanuel Levinas
\\ a minority of Ukrainian "fundamentalist nationalists" (Nazis)
/I'd like to see AT LEAST ONE... being demonstrated to me.
Before I die. ;-P
Ukraine has no racists? THAT is your argument? Please. No oligarch's or corrupt officials, either.
Sell it to someone who's buying, St. Q.
\\They have no "ironic distance" from killing their own people (Russians, like Jews in NAZI Germany).
/Well...
Here https://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/estimated-number-of-jews-killed-in-the-final-solution
Looks like comprehensive list of killed Jews.
I'd like to see at least somewhat comprehensive about that "Russian killed by Ukrainian nazis".
Yawn.
For now.
There is comprehensive list of killed by RFia via indiscriminate bombing children of Ukraine.
Go ask Google yourself. Something like "UN report Ukraine killed children".
THAT militia children and relatives TOO.
But... you trying to oppose to their RIGHT of self-defense????
Or... what you trying to claim here????
Can you be more EXPLICIT... and comprehensive, if you could?
Caesar never said what he did. When did the world discover the Nazi death lists? See you at the ICC in the Hague in a few, my friend. I'm sure the Russians will turn over the documents once they capture Kyiv, not that the "prosecutors" will ever do their jobs, though.
btw - How many Americans are on your "hit list" now? Can you please add me?
\\In fact, they ENJOY it.
/Yeah.
RFians DO ENJOY killing Ukrainians.
I saw that in numerous vids. From their mass-media, TV, Internet and etc.
...Like Americans @ Abu Ghraib, only its' more fun to torture/ humilate them. Jim Crowe laws for Ukrainian-Russians in the Donbass/Luhansk.
\\The Russians are "the problem"... if only they were expelled, Ukraine would perfect, harmonious and rich.
/Yeah... because that is Ukraine and Ukrainians that occupied "historically Russian territories" and started bloody war... with threats to launch ICBMs and saying "if there'd be a World WITHOUT Ukraine... we do not need such World"... yes???? %-)))))
You poke a bear, does he sit and take it?
/And... most important.
That is Ukraine.
Though there was Budapest Memorandum in accordance with which it was robbed of it all.
That have fleets of strategic bombers, nuclear submarines and ICBMs.
That was created. That was deployed. And still standing on-duty with vigilant readiness... while DIRECTED for one and only purpose -- to destroy cities of USA...
You let us worry about that. Meddlers aren't welcome. And we'll be leaving your so-called "alliance" (Euro-suicide pact) soon enough if I have anything to say about it.
\\President Franklin Delano Roosevelt made one of those escalating moves in July 1940 when he cut off shipments of scrap iron,
/Yep.
Sanctions against RFia... and now China... which they denounce as "unilateral and unfair".
Yawn.
Do you really need to turn back to me arguments that CONFiRM *MY* point??? %-)))
It's not what "they" whine about that matters. It's who breaks them (sanctions).
...and that also AFFIRM mine, that WAR was the inevitable result. But then WAR is what you argue for, for you are on the ropes now AND out of steam (NOT rope-a-doping). The canvas awaits. Ring the bell. It's time to start Round 12.
\\Iron dome - shooting $1m ABMs to counter $10k unguided ballistics.
/And what it proves?
That... as Palestinians proposed it: "We killed 1000 of your people, you killed 10.000 of ours... let's call it EVEN"?????? %-))))))
The sooner Israel's IDF cleans out Rafa, the better. Let the rockets only fall from Lebanon now. Ukraine is like Gaza. Teetering on the edge of a fall.
\\Tanos gotta be Tanos.
/Law of Unpredictable Consequences.
Yawn.
I'm pretty sure all the swans are white, now. At least in Ukraine. The window closes in January '25. Let's see if you can last that long.
\\Not for long.
/Then... why you trying to hold barbarians on your border... so desperately.
Allow em to come in.
For your Decline to be shorter and more decisive. ;-P
Holding them at the border? The Biden Admin is FLYING THEM IN trying to Blue-up the Red States. The question is, will the US last until Jan '25?
\\Ignorance is bliss!
/Desho!
AI=more BLISS!
\\If I could point to it, could you see the absolutely infinite? Then I simply point "up".
/Naaaah. Universe is just miserly 14 billions years old. And quite miserly in span. ;-P
You must not be looking at the Penrose diagrams with the rotating black holes. ;P
\\Words don't "work"?
/And how they "work"??? ;-)
They do if they represent the very points du capitons that capture the illusion of "fixed meanings". The point de capiton is thus the point in the signifying chain at which "the signifier stops the otherwise endless movement of the signification" and produces the necessary illusion of a fixed meaning. Or are you paralyzed like the Parkinson's patients in Awakenings? Do your motor neurons need a little more dopamine? How about some substantia negra?
The substantia nigra is a critical brain region for the production of dopamine and this neurochemical affects many systems of the central nervous system ranging from movement control, cognitive executive functions, and emotional limbic activity.
Or have you isolated activities to the motor cortex center and are "asleep"?
\\Refer to the answer above (Divided Line).
/Yawn.
Postulation it's a lame trick.
Imprecise. And outDATED. ;-P
Yet still passing the Lindy test...
\\So Ukraine will suffer the fate of the Germans post WWII instead of their fate post WWI. *tsk-tsk*
/Will be split between Capitalists and Commies??? %-))))
Not exactly. You'll likely find yourselves in the commie "East" or in the DMZ. Cuz face it. Kyiv will never control HiMars again.
\\Those who do not learn from history are condemned to repeat it. "To the LAST Ukrainian" then!
/Yeah.
If Ukraine would surrender, it would re-live Purges, Golodomor and War decimation(s).
Yawn.
So... better NOT do anything about it. And just REPEAT history.
Till... NO Ukrainians will remain.
The German's couldn't help themselves either. Ideological blinders. Cult Kool-Aid.
"Every effort to turn Ethics into a principle of thought and action is essentially religious... Ethics is a category of pious discourse.... We are left with a Pious discourse without piety. A spiritual supplement for incompetent governments, and a cultural sociology preached in line with the new style sermons in lieu of the late class struggle... - Emmanuel Levinas
For the "Ukrainian Volk"... Putin demands "Unconditional Surrender"... so "surrender" is NOT an option. You should watch a few Milos Forman films on the 'nature' of the "Ukrainian (or any other) Volk" like "The Fireman's Ball".
That will fix that "problem".
/With such a "nazi" people Ukrainians... existing in this world...
Don't worry. Putin probably has a "final solution" for them. ;)
\\ But he spoke to her from his position of superior power:
/Ukraine?
To a miserly and lamenting while "pierced by the curved talons" Russia? %-)))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))
You passed over the verses addressed to the princes of "Russian Eagles".
\\\\Those who do not learn from history are condemned to repeat it. "To the LAST Ukrainian" then!
\\Yeah.
\\If Ukraine would surrender, it would re-live Purges, Golodomor and War decimation(s).
/That's... just "lack of experience to sympathize" and nothing else.
Just like that Jews that live in USA, and never was able to sympathize to their cousines from Germany, Poland and... Ukraine. Who gone with a smoke. But few survivors.
So now... today... they OPPOSE right of Israel to protect itself...
Yawn...
Not the Jews I know. Just the "orthodox" who were never to bright to begin with (like the Amish). They seldom volunteer to "man the wall". As in Plato's "Statesman" the temperate (as opposed to the more courageous IDF members).
\\Foolish is the one who is ready to stand up to those who are more powerful. Such a person is deprived of victory, suffering pains in addition to the disgrace of defeat.” So spoke the swift-flying hawk, the long-winged bird.
/:-))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))
Until grave worms will feast on it. ;-P
The conqueror worm read with pathos). ;)
\\The inept [nēpios] person learns only by going through the experience.
/True that. ;-P
\\\Their wives bear children resembling their fathers.
/Ha-ha-ha-ha... those fools. That dunno about chromosomes and DNA. :-)))))))))))))))))))))))))
...and yet weren't talking of that, merely observing phenomena.
\\Many times it happens that an entire polis suffers the consequences on account of just one evil man who transgresses and plans reckless deeds.
/Yap.
Zero-bama. dRump. Bi-demn. ;-P
...and ALL their predecessors. For they are the men in the arena.
\\For these men the son of Kronos brings down from the skies a great disaster, famine along with pestilence. And the people waste away.
/Time tells no lies. ;-P
...and hubris suffers no fools.
\\\\ They don't pay sh*t for taxes.
/That's BS.
Taxes... that's always people who paying em.
Because... corporation just rise prices, to accommodate for bigger taxes.
And... if prices became bigger than of concurrents from other countries (where taxes are lower)... then IN ADDITION for paying taxes, people struggle of stagnation (lower wages, lower employment).
\\But the corporate shareholder's/ investors pay zip for capital gains.
Whatever.
Do you know theory behind corporation???
It is like slave -- DO NOT own anything.
So... that is just some other people who do not like to pay taxes.
Well... like something new.
Yawn.
\\To keep the wage slaves in perpetual debt-slavery.
Their own problem.
Let em find some Spartacus(Lenin?) to lead em. ;-PPPP
Into commie paradise. Where'd they'd be working for free. As slaves.
While forced to chant: "No! We are not slave! Slave -- not we!". :-))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))
\\ If the investors and money bundlers want to "invest" in Ukraine, let them use their OWN money instead of adding to the national debt. "Privatize gains/ publicize losses," I know!
In case of war too? ;-P
Let it be "Everybody is for him/herself!". :-)))))))))))))))))))))))))))
Or... that'll be "Uncle Sam -- help us! Uncle Sam -- save us!"
\\Call it for what it is: Ethics... not "religion". A cynical disguise for hiding class differences and struggle
????
Dictionary
Definitions from Oxford Languages · Learn more
ethics
/ˈɛθɪks/
noun
plural noun: ethics; noun: ethics
1.
moral principles that govern a person's behaviour or the conducting of an activity.
"medical ethics also enter into the question"
h
Similar:
moral code
morals
morality
moral stand
moral principles
moral values
rights and wrongs
principles
ideals
creed
credo
ethos
rules of conduct
standards (of behaviour)
virtues
dictates of conscience
the moral correctness of specified conduct.
"many scientists question the ethics of cruel experiments"
2.
the branch of knowledge that deals with moral principles.
"neither metaphysics nor ethics is the home of religion"
ethic
/ˈɛθɪk/
noun
plural noun: ethics
a set of moral principles, especially ones relating to or affirming a specified group, field, or form of conduct.
"the puritan ethic was being replaced by the hedonist ethic"
Origin
late Middle English (denoting ethics or moral philosophy; also used attributively): from Old French éthique, from Latin ethice, from Greek (hē) ēthikē (tekhnē) ‘(the science of) morals’, based on ēthos (see ethos).
Use over time for: ethics
\\Ukraine has no racists?
Do Ukraine have blakks??? ;-P
That's maybe EVERY country in the world was smuggling people from Africa... to work on plantations???
\\No oligarch's or corrupt officials, either.
What is "oligarch"???
And what... every "corrupt official" is Nazi???
:-)))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))
\\Sell it to someone who's buying, St. Q.
I cannot (re)sell something what I not bought.
And I not buy manure. ;-P
\\Caesar never said what he did. When did the world discover the Nazi death lists? See you at the ICC in the Hague in a few, my friend. I'm sure the Russians will turn over the documents once they capture Kyiv, not that the "prosecutors" will ever do their jobs, though.
So??? MH17 "never happened"???
Because Russians not provided their document????
And what courts and investigators and prosecutors are for???? To rubber-stamp sincere confession of murderers and burglars and rapers and all other people... which they ought to give of their own free will. Bu-ga-gah!!! %-))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))
\\btw - How many Americans are on your "hit list" now? Can you please add me?
WAT???? %-))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))
\\...Like Americans @ Abu Ghraib, only its' more fun to torture/ humilate them. Jim Crowe laws for Ukrainian-Russians in the Donbass/Luhansk.
?????
\\You poke a bear, does he sit and take it?
And white-headed eagle? ;-P
It turns and flying away... like some dumb sparrow. %-))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))
\\You let us worry about that. Meddlers aren't welcome. And we'll be leaving your so-called "alliance" (Euro-suicide pact) soon enough if I have anything to say about it.
Whatever.
I only suspect that Pentagon is not on one page with you... in such story. ;-P
\\It's not what "they" whine about that matters. It's who breaks them (sanctions).
Pft!
Politics... it's all about talks... and making stances/poses. ;-P
\\...and that also AFFIRM mine, that WAR was the inevitable result.
With such DEMN DUMB reaction to it. Like playing "nobody's home".
Or... continuing with childish "la-la-la, I don't here you...".
Yeah. It's self-fulfilling prophecy.
Many-many time confirmed... in ages.
The more you fear it -- the more surely it'll happen.
Yawn.
"Fear... is the killer of a mind..."
\\But then WAR is what you argue for,
Naaah.
I just practicing historical meta-talking/meta-thinking.
\\It's time to start Round 12.
Naaaah.
It's not even walk-in under sounds of music happened... and USA already throwed a towel. :-)))))))))))))))))))))))))))))
\\The sooner Israel's IDF cleans out Rafa, the better. Let the rockets only fall from Lebanon now. Ukraine is like Gaza. Teetering on the edge of a fall.
:-))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))
Would you bet something on that? ;-P
\\I'm pretty sure all the swans are white, now. At least in Ukraine. The window closes in January '25. Let's see if you can last that long.
There's a long time... till that time. ;-P
\\Holding them at the border? The Biden Admin is FLYING THEM IN trying to Blue-up the Red States. The question is, will the US last until Jan '25?
Some traveling sparrows???
I mean REAL brutes. ;-P
Like Palestinian HAMASians, narco-cartels Latinoses, some smelly-hairy Russian gangsters, sneaky China Triades... to have your territory as port-a-franko. ;-P
Like Tortuga. :-)))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))
\\You must not be looking at the Penrose diagrams with the rotating black holes. ;P
Whatever.
\\They do if they represent the very points du capitons that capture the illusion of "fixed meanings".
That... looks like explaining Xs with Ys. Yawn.
\\Yet still passing the Lindy test...
Yeah.
Because.
"Mother of idiots always preganant"(c)
Yawn
\\Not exactly. You'll likely find yourselves in the commie "East" or in the DMZ. Cuz face it. Kyiv will never control HiMars again.
????
\\For the "Ukrainian Volk"... Putin demands "Unconditional Surrender"... so "surrender" is NOT an option.
\\Don't worry. Putin probably has a "final solution" for them. ;)
Turning my argument back at me? What for?
To confirm me? ;-)
\\You passed over the verses addressed to the princes of "Russian Eagles".
Maybe.
But why should I care.
If it was not addressed to me?
\\Not the Jews I know.
Well...
\\\\\Their wives bear children resembling their fathers.
/Ha-ha-ha-ha... those fools. That dunno about chromosomes and DNA. :-)))))))))))))))))))))))))
\\...and yet weren't talking of that, merely observing phenomena.
Like till the thinest structures of brain? ;-P
Which overwhelmed by mather's chromosomes... which makes em gays. Infertile. Impotents. ;-P
While still "resembling" their fathers...
\\...and ALL their predecessors. For they are the men in the arena.
Assumed. I hope you'll forgive me, ignorance of their predecessors names.(though... I know em more, that I'd like too...)
\\...and hubris suffers no fools.
Like that poses problem to that fools... only to those who surround em. ;-P
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